The Mallus Compliance (Space Marines in Warhammer Fantasy - Chapter Master/Empire Building)

[Talon TigerDino]

Why would you curse us with such knowledge?

 

[16 characters]

I've been thinking a bit about when we reach the mootlands as an idea for another story I can write but so far nothing is coming to me. Well, not nothing but nothing truly original. Just basically Esama's The Quiet Rise but facilitated by an altered version of the imperium on the doorstep and with far less initial independence.

I've also had story ideas beaming through my head about integrating the Skaven. However, figuring out the nature vs nurture questions on both their biology and psychology is proving challenging for me.
We don't as far as I know know have any in canon sources for what they were like in the first generations after their creation, nor much of anything in the way of seeing their attitudes living under other races because for example, they are one of the few races the chaos dwarves don't regularly enslave. Not that they have seemingly ever succeeded in having any of their non-greenskin slaves reproduce given the conditions so even then such data would be moot.

My best guess that i'm hedging on is that they would act a lot more like real rats without such conditioning as the horrors and cramping and shortages the under empire provides. That being skittish when not forced into confrontation and extremely cooperative with each other as a general rule of thumb.

EDIT: It wasn't meant to be a curse X-D if your referring to me

 

[16 characters]

Yea I've not rolled for it all yet, got interrupted halfway through

Click to shrink...

Sorry to double post but have all the rolls now indeed been made?

 

[rx915]

King Kong? It must be the ape beastman from the Southlands.

 

[FractiousDay]

Sorry to double post but have all the rolls now indeed been made?

Click to shrink...

Yes, all rolls made for the actions. I may roll again at some point for things like success of geneseed stuff

King Kong? It must be the ape beastman from the Southlands.

Click to shrink...

'Khong' possibly if he's a chaos worshipper.

 

[FractiousDay]

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair.

So basically I've been working on the economy rework and stuff. I've essentially been building the tools so I don't have to do as much work in future. I find this sort of thing quite interesting but there are rather a lot of tables. I also don't really want this to turn into a logistics quest, but in any case here we are.

Essentially I wanted to know what the costs of various pieces of equipment, formations and so on should be. For example:

Category

Item

kg

Tonnes

Basic

Basic %

Advanced

Advanced %

Promethium

Promethium %

Exotic

Exotic %

Relic

Relic %

Total

Infantry

Power Weapon

4​

0.004​

2​

18%​

4​

36%​

1​

9%​

3​

27%​

1​

9%​

11​

Here I've broken down a power weapon into the various resource tiers, in a mechanic which will hopefully make you actually go out and attack stuff rather than turtling up. This simulates the violence a less developed people experience when thrown into the cauldron of development (or whatever Trotsky's phrase was). Here a power weapon is one of the only items which requires relic material, which you might compare to gromril or similar. Comparably a basic hand weapon might be 3 parts steel and 1 part vanadium or something, representing a 3:1 ratio of Basic and Advanced Materials.

Unit

Equipment

Weight

Tonnes

Basic

Basic %

Advanced

Advanced %

Promethium

Promethium %

Exotic

Exotic %

Relic

Relic %

Total

Officer

Power Weapon

4​

0.004​

2​

18%​

4​

36%​

1​

9%​

3​

27%​

1​

9%​

11​

Carapace Armour

40​

0.04​

5​

31%​

8​

50%​

2​

13%​

1​

6%​

0%​

16​

Advanced Equipment

20​

0.02​

4​

33%​

4​

33%​

2​

17%​

1​

8%​

1​

8%​

12​

Bolt Pistol

6​

0.006​

5​

42%​

5​

42%​

1​

8%​

1​

8%​

0%​

12​

Officer

70​

0.07​

16​

31%​

21​

41%​

6​

12%​

6​

12%​

2​

4%​

51​

Now, an officer of the Imperial Guard has the above equipment, only 4% of it is relic stuff for example, but the largest % is advanced alloys that make up the officer's equipment.

A Warhammerised Soviet ww2 infantry regiment consists of the following:

Unit	Manpower	Transports	Equipment	Notes
HQ	150​	4​	12​
Signal Battalion	60​	3​	12​	Psykana
Medical Battalion	160​	5​	24​
Supply Company	80​	2​	12​
Anti-Tank Company	80​	16​	48​	12 guns
Anti-Air Company	80​	12​	38​	8 guns
Artillery Company	400​	32​	120​	24 guns
Engineer Battalion	250​	6​	220​	5 tanks
Heavy Artillery Battalion	700​	24​	300​	8 guns
Scout Battalion	120​	6​	60​	12 Sentinels
Infantry Battalion	3000​	12​	220​	3 Battalions
Total	5080​	122​	1066​

I can then say that of the 70kg an officer is carrying, 22kg of it is made up of Basic tier material, but 2.75kg of Relic tier. Breaking each of the soldiers and pieces of equipment up as above we can see therefore that there are 4 officers in the HQ section, who each have the aforementioned equipment.

Unit

Advanced

Promethium

Exotic

Relic

HQ

Signal Battalion

Medical Battalion

Supply Company

Anti-Tank Company

Anti-Air Company

Artillery Company

Engineer Battalion

Heavy Artillery Battalion

Scout Battalion

Infantry Battalion

Total

%

Officer

28.82​

8.24​

8.24​

2.75​

4​

3​

6​

4​

3​

3​

3​

6​

6​

5​

8​

51​

1.00%​

Crew Trooper

14.00​

2.80​

2.80​

0.00​

4​

3​

5​

2​

39​

44​

294​

101​

498​

6​

280​

1276​

25.12%​

Menial

9.21​

2.30​

2.30​

0.00​

40​

12​

97​

53​

6​

6​

52​

36​

72​

10​

68​

452​

8.90%​

Support Trooper

24.47​

8.16​

5.44​

0.00​

0​

0​

0​

0​

1​

2​

8​

4​

12​

452​

479​

9.43%​

Heavy Weapons Trooper

42.64​

15.23​

6.09​

3.05​

4​

0​

0​

0​

1​

1​

1​

4​

3​

1​

232​

247​

4.86%​

Shock Trooper

25.66​

6.84​

6.84​

1.71​

25​

8​

0​

0​

0​

0​

0​

24​

0​

0​

100​

157​

3.09%​

Psyker

7.65​

2.29​

5.35​

3.82​

6​

16​

1​

1​

1​

3​

2​

4​

2​

12​

48​

0.94%​

Guardsman

15.00​

2.50​

5.00​

0.00​

43​

8​

8​

8​

16​

12​

32​

24​

50​

65​

1812​

2078​

40.91%​

Engineseer

26.00​

7.22​

8.67​

2.89​

2​

1​

2​

1​

1​

1​

3​

3​

1​

3​

18​

0.35%​

Servitor

43.08​

17.23​

12.92​

2.15​

6​

3​

24​

0​

3​

3​

3​

24​

42​

3​

9​

120​

2.36%​

Junior Officer

13.97​

3.10​

3.10​

1.55​

16​

6​

18​

12​

9​

9​

9​

18​

18​

15​

24​

154​

3.03%​

Totals

0​

0​

0​

0​

150​

60​

160​

80​

80​

80​

400​

250​

700​

120​

3000​

5080​

I'm not sure it was entirely necessary to categorise them all like that but it was actually pretty quick to do and I can use it as a baseline in future now. We can then look at the overall picture, if there are 51 officers in the regiment with X equipment requirements, how many tonnes of steel will that take to produce?

Unit

Weight

Tonnes

Basic

Advanced

Promethium

Exotic

Relic

Individuals

Basic

Advanced

Promethium

Exotic

Relic

Officer

70​

0.07​

21.96​

28.82​

8.24​

8.24​

2.75​

51​

1120​

1470​

420​

420​

140​

Crew Trooper

56​

0.056​

36.40​

14.00​

2.80​

2.80​

0.00​

1276​

46446.4​

17864​

3572.8​

3572.8​

0​

Menial

38​

0.094​

24.18​

9.21​

2.30​

2.30​

0.00​

452​

10930.18​

4163.879​

1040.97​

1040.97​

0​

Support Trooper

87​

0.087​

48.94​

24.47​

8.16​

5.44​

0.00​

479​

23441.06​

11720.53​

3906.844​

2604.563​

0​

Heavy Weapons Trooper

107​

0.107​

50.68​

30.97​

14.08​

11.26​

0.00​

247​

12519​

7650.5​

3477.5​

2782​

0​

Shock Trooper

65​

0.065​

23.95​

25.66​

6.84​

6.84​

1.71​

157​

3759.737​

4028.289​

1074.211​

1074.211​

268.5526​

Psyker

26​

0.026​

6.88​

7.65​

2.29​

5.35​

3.82​

48​

330.3529​

367.0588​

110.1176​

256.9412​

183.5294​

Guardsman

60​

0.06​

37.50​

15.00​

2.50​

5.00​

0.00​

2078​

77925​

31170​

5195​

10390​

0​

Engineseer

65​

0.065​

20.22​

26.00​

7.22​

8.67​

2.89​

18​

364​

468​

130​

156​

52​

Servitor

112​

0.112​

36.62​

43.08​

17.23​

12.92​

2.15​

120​

4393.846​

5169.231​

2067.692​

1550.769​

258.4615​

Junior Officer

45​

0.045​

23.28​

13.97​

3.10​

3.10​

1.55​

154​

3584.483​

2150.69​

477.931​

477.931​

238.9655​

Totals

5080​

184814.1​

86222.18​

21473.06​

24326.18​

1141.509​

I've not included the artillery and tanks in the above, but they're on my spreadsheet.

In the end we find:

	Basic	Advanced	Promethium	Exotic	Relic	Total
Infantry Regiment	1447​	702​	549​	252​	44​	2994​

You'll need approximately 3000 tonnes of stuff to create a reasonably well equipped infantry regiment. The infantry are actually the small part, it's the tanks, transports, artillery and so on which really push up the numbers:

Kg not tonnes for this one

Basic

%

Advanced

%

Promethium

%

Exotic

%

Relic

%

Total

%

Infantry

184814​

58%​

86222​

27%​

21473​

7%​

24326​

8%​

1142​

0%​

317977​

11%​

Equipment

1262000​

47%​

616000​

23%​

527467​

20%​

227867​

9%​

42667​

2%​

2676000​

89%​

1446814​

702222​

548940​

252193​

43808​

2993977​

What I am somewhat concerned about is the 'make big number go bigger' sort of monkey brain thinking that I've seen in other threads when considering actions. If you don't want to engage with the system that's pretty much fine, you can get from the text that there's a promethium shortage so you decide to build a promethium plant to supply fuel and chemicals etc.

I imagine I'll put this sort of thing up on a google sheet at some point if anyone's interested. You're also most welcome to just ask me 'what would the cost be to create a regiment of PDF instead' and obviously that would be a lot lower because they wouldn't have lascannons etc, just autoguns and stubbers.

As for actual costings,

	Basic	Advanced	Promethium	Exotic	Relic	Total
Infantry Regiment	1447​	702​	549​	252​	44​	2994​

I might keep the above and have the basic unit of the quest be a tonne, however I could equally decimalise it or otherwise alter it somehow. I'm partly doing this because I want an element of formality and standardisation for my own sanity, and also because such resource constraints should indeed force you into conquering to acquire more resources and secure your conquests ala a garrison state.

Comments welcome etc. I'll get started on the actual chapter at some point.

 

[rx915]

You've been very busy. I thought I was going to have a free day tomorrow but it's more stuff to help my mom out and something else bah.

 

[Exmorri]

I respect the amount of work you're putting into this.

Servitors requiring so much Relic material (>2kg) looks a little odd to me. Maybe we have different idea of what default servitors are like? I thought they were mostly menial labor for people who needed their menial labor to be extra tireless, given an electric heart to keep moving, and an implanted weapon/tool for a hand, not particularly relic-y.

 

[FractiousDay]

Servitors requiring so much Relic material (>2kg) looks a little odd to me. Maybe we have different idea of what default servitors are like? I thought they were mostly menial labor for people who needed their menial labor to be extra tireless, given an electric heart to keep moving, and an implanted weapon/tool for a hand, not particularly relic-y.

Click to shrink...

Massively depends on which kind you're talking about. There's necessarily a level of abstraction here. For example, you've got 'Heavy Weapon Trooper' with 'Crew Weapon', but that could mean a plasma cannon or a heavy stubber. Plasma tech is obviously a lot more special than a presumably entirely steel heavy machine gun.

Equipment

Weight

Tonnes

Basic

Basic %

Advanced

Advanced %

Promethium

Promethium %

Exotic

Exotic %

Relic

Relic %

Total

Servitor

Crew Weapon

40​

0.04​

4​

25%​

6​

38%​

3​

19%​

3​

19%​

0%​

16​

Carapace Armour

40​

0.04​

5​

31%​

8​

50%​

2​

13%​

1​

6%​

0%​

16​

Advanced Equipment

20​

0.02​

4​

33%​

4​

33%​

2​

17%​

1​

8%​

1​

8%​

12​

Ammunition

12​

0.012​

4​

50%​

2​

25%​

1​

13%​

1​

13%​

0%​

8​

Servitor

112​

0.112​

17​

33%​

20​

38%​

8​

15%​

6​

12%​

1​

2%​

52​

This is the Servitor's profile, Crew Weapon here is proxying for other random enhancements like mechandrites, and the only part of the Servitor which has the relic stuff is the 'Advanced Equipment', something shared by Officers, Junior Officers, Engineseers, Shock Troopers and Psykers. This could potentially be some sort of advanced computer, a special radio, a bolter with special shells, melta bombs or other random stuff.

To my point, yes some servitors are like the roomba servitor, the candle lighting servitor, and so on, but what sort of ones would be taken to battle? I assume they'd all be specialists, the ones with the Enginseers attached to the medical company would be med-servitors with advanced cogitators or xray machines to do surgery. Comparably, they might be Kataphron Battle Servitors I suppose I could reduce the numbers of servitors for certain elements though. I read somewhere that there were 3 Kataphron per Techpriest so I was going of that basis.

 

[Exmorri]

That makes sense. Consider renaming those "Battle Servitor" or "Combat Servitor" to be explicit? I wasn't expecting an ordinary regiment to have so many servitors it brings to battle, I was thinking more in terms of gear maintenance servitor and trench/latrine-digging servitor and other logistics that free up manpower to do the fighting.

 

[16 characters]

I admit when I saw the word count in my notifications I got excited for a new turn, but this is still interesting and I will try my best to understand.

On ''Turtling""One thing I admit I have been confused about for ages is why you the GM desire your players to try and move faster and attack things more often in general? It is not as if building up resources and attacking the most pressing local threats(that is what you view as turtle-ing? I think?) is inherently boring when those threats can be uber wizard toads, giant apes, Rat Men with unknown levels of technology and our own incompetence(getting smacked by the green moon) for examples.
Heck, even some of the resources we can gather are interesting enough to grab my attention at least.

Also, we aren't even operating entirely in the Southlands anymore ever since we sent marines to the empire. Hopefully, we can hear about that in the next update or after the time skip at least?

Lastly, the lions are Iron Fist descendants, not White Scars, it seems counterintuitive to me to expect them to think of charging into a whole new continent with intentions to immediately conquer without building at least one fortress nearby. I'm sure they can do both but doing the latter seems like a good way to end up with 15-30 fewer marines all of a sudden, which I woulnd't mind but I think most players would.


On Regular Tables: These seem sensible but I don't think anyone's been specifically against doing mining and resource gathering now that our Advanced level factories are actually running( that was the hesitance for me before at least. Heck I am in favor of grinding up most of the Worlds Edge Mountains at and Below Nehekara for more metals and materials. At least if such can be done without destroying the local climate in the lowlands and hence future (decent quality) food production.

On Servitor Costs: Obviously, vat grown Familars(which can often also count as servitors) like Cherubs and Haemoncolytes are not going to be as easy to produce as the sort of servitor usually conjured up. Though seeing one particular cherub model with a large dagger amuses me I admit. Whereas the typical method is more like ''scoop out part of an ogryns brains, remove his legs and attach tank parts to the rest'' though even that is bound to require some forethought and manufacture capacity. Although given we have no ogryns those sorts are also currently a moot point.

 

[FractiousDay]

On ''Turtling"

Click to shrink...

I've written three quests so far, in each of them the players have demonstrated a tendency to turtling, by which I do indeed mean a more risk-adverse method of play. There are a few reasons I try to discourage this, firstly, it's exceptionally dull to write. Have turn after turn of 'you studied magic in your house' or 'you did some paperwork' isn't fun to write and it really saps my energy. Previously I when I started writing quests I'd write more for such actions, but I'm more confident now in glossing over such things, for example 'this year you built some fortifications' and then a short description. Apart from it being quite boring though, there's another problem.

My philosophy as a GM includes the agency of other parties than the players. People aren't on timers, it's not inevitable that so and so attacks on turn 8, however, the individual or party in question may change their plans based on various factors, including the actions of the PCs. Sometimes players will get the more subtle stuff through discussion, most of the time they don't and a more proactive approach, though riskier, therefore has more of a chance to expose and inform players about particular matters. As an example of this, in one of my other quests the PCs landed in a new area, with the intention of assisting two groups fighting the local undead. Said two groups, the Scarlet Crusade and the Forsaken, were opposed to each other. The players didn't think it necessary to meet those groups immediately, and indeed I eventually wrote in that the Scarlets arrived and said hello. Meanwhile events between the two groups escalated and the PCs arrived to find the Scarlets sieging a Forsaken settlement, leading to it's destruction and the deaths of most of the Forsaken inside. As I recall some players felt a lack of agency in this action, and were sad they hadn't been able to save the Forsaken. @rx915 you were in that thread, do you have any thoughts on turtling in general or on the above matter? Same for Saemund learning necromancy for most of Traitor Quest. Oh, also Dark Shamanism and Forneus.

You might also look at the situation around the Morrslieb Incident in this quest, that's another example where I'd argue a risk adverse approach actually led to a worse situation overall.

So to answer the original question, I don't find it inherently problematic from an in character perspective, yes space marines generally like forting up, yes there turtling doesn't entirely preclude action sequences like when Khong squashes a company of marines, however, I do find it necessary to balance the broad character of players with various entreaties to action, and it's for the same reason I have various voting rules, otherwise people seem to just throw out a random list of actions.

I don't think anyone's been specifically against doing mining and resource gathering

Click to shrink...

You've got and have been using the various wrecks of the ships, and they'll represent a pretty significant stockpile of stuff to draw from in future. For example, Hath-Horeb has made his new warp machine out of the warp engine of the Serenkai.

 

[rx915]

If you mean turtling by focusing on themselves expecting so and so to be that way on the next turn I intentionally can do it to game the system.

 

[Exmorri]

I've written three quests so far, in each of them the players have demonstrated a tendency to turtling, by which I do indeed mean a more risk-adverse method of play. There are a few reasons I try to discourage this, firstly, it's exceptionally dull to write. Have turn after turn of 'you studied magic in your house' or 'you did some paperwork' isn't fun to write and it really saps my energy. Previously I when I started writing quests I'd write more for such actions, but I'm more confident now in glossing over such things, for example 'this year you built some fortifications' and then a short description.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps you could make there be less "turn after turn" of the same things taking too long by offering fewer such options, and/or possibly running the quest on a different time scale. The "Dig a Way (1 of 4)" option stands out as an example here. I respect that you don't want to write four turns of digging, and I figure most voters aren't particularly interested in reading four turns of digging either. But in placing this option here, you've created a system where we have to vote for four turns of digging in order to get our additional vehicles out without breaking the ship, and there will have to be a lot of glossing over if you don't want to write the results of these four votes, and however many other votes there are for (1 of N) actions.

Don't offer us options that you don't want to write the results of.

D&D enforces this by not allowing PCs to "study magic" as a means of gaining XP, they have to go out and fight monsters and foil schemes and steal treasures to gain XP. Taken as a description of how the world works, it's stupid. Taken as a mechanism for producing interesting play, it works great. Now, you don't have to go quite that far in making the Estalians have random drops of Space-Marine-tier loot to encourage us to invade Estalia, but if you dislike turtling so much, I suggest offering fewer rewards for turtling, and more rewards for other things.

A radical proposal: Cut out the entire Stewardship section. Nobody has a gun to your head insisting you use the five categories from CK2. (I hope.) You can replace it with a series of passive reports on how the Mechanicus and the neo-Administratum are gradually improving stuff and producing stuff and running out of stuff. Occasionally there can perhaps be an interlude vote for what priorities to give the Mechanicus, or how to resolve a problem they have. But very many of the Stewardship options are, in effect, turtling options. Without them, I expect the voters would focus more on interacting with the world and less on running down the long long list of Stuff to mine from that section.

 

[FractiousDay]

Perhaps

Click to shrink...

Yes I've been considering such things. I'll maintain the current system till the end of this arc and the timeskip, but during that I'm thinking about some sort of 10 year plan system where priorities will indeed be established for things. Similarly I was thinking about making longer term votes like that occupy a slot till they're done. You don't just build half a building then stop as a way of completing infrastructure projects.

Interesting point on stewardship, but for the moment at least I'd like to maintain it, simply because this quest is also an experiment for me to try out the ck2 system.

The alternative would be every 5 or 10 turns have a vote on long term strategic points, and then for the rest of the turns have tactical stuff.

However, that in turn just makes me want to write this as a story not a quest, which isn't really something I want to do. By trimming down the options I'd find it more difficult to offer other options, which is already something which some chapters have struggled with them there's a limited number of options there.

 

[rx915]

Same for Saemund learning necromancy for most of Traitor Quest. Oh, also Dark Shamanism and Forneus.

Click to shrink...

Saemund I lurked for a couple of times. That one I think was the voters going for broke by getting following Nagash's route of ascension if it weren't for the dwarves.

Dark shamanism I think was just part of the package deal playing a blademaster so some split decisions like that elemental item that broke and released an upset elemental no one would expect. Forneus was also a result of not expecting it.

 

[16 characters]

I think both players and characters have been using the ships because they are literally right on our doorstep, or well most of them were barring the one that crashed onto bear island. (I wonder if we can go back there if we learn of and maybe help the emperor worship spreading up north?)
That's not really being disinterested in mining or extraction so much as seeing a lot of guns and metal and food production already there and at the ready with very little work and using them. Why not grab them first and the other resources that take more prep work and don't protect us by default second?

I wasn't trying to find information(abiotic resources) on which rocks and minerals are magically active or magically dampening, etc for no reason, I was hoping they could be things we could look for once the fortress Monastery was established and given it is now and we have places to store the equipment needed, annd we have the resource survey I am in fact hoping more players will also go looking for this stuff.

Just think about how cool it would be to build magic repellant hulls for things? How awesome it would be to use such materials to train psychers more safely, possibly.(I really need to give a write in vote on one of those) How useful it would be to be able to refuel things again? For some reason not all our gear runs on fusion and solar. Probably the mechanicus showing favoritism again for certain items/ again forgetting how to install power sources.

Heck if nothing else by working on such we can at least probably get the dwarves to come to the table. If they see our (as of yet unbuilt) Goliath Rockgrinders and Frag Drills and kindred devices in action out of jealousy/ desire.

EDIT: I may have actually Misunderstood the QM here, maybe you were talking about using the parts of the ship to build mining equipment faster as a tradeoff thing?

 

[FractiousDay]

EDIT: I may have actually Misunderstood the QM here, maybe you were talking about using the parts of the ship to build mining equipment faster as a tradeoff thing?

Click to shrink...

Don't really disagree with any of that so I assume so. Yes there is indeed a big stockpile of stuff from the fleet that you can use in future, 3 ships went into the fortmon construction after all. 1 and a half cruisers to fix the serenkai enough to get it flying, then the BB itself to make the fortifications. Similarly, as you say, having additional resources with have some special property will indeed be helpful. YOu could make a force weapon out of warpstone for example, that would be cool.


Also calcs for an armoured regiment, unsurprisingly, a load of tanks are heavier and require more resources than the 3000 tonnes of stuff for an infantry one.

Column1	Basic	Advanced	Promethium	Exotic	Relic	Total tonnes
Armoured	6394​	3733​	2153​	2756​	262​	15297​

 

[rx915]

This is for when you ever go to Cathay.

 

[FractiousDay]

This is for when you ever go to Cathay.

Click to shrink...

Yea I'll admit having TWW3 coming out soon does make me more inclined to include stuff about it. Means I don't have to make stuff up.

 

[16 characters]

Pre release Edit on big post: My goodness that trailer is the best news I could hope for I confess I squealed with joy for minutes at a time. This post got delayed a couple of times due to life interrupting me.

Far more new Information can be found hereabouts though: https://www.warhammer-community.com...ic-collaboration-for-total-war-warhammer-iii/

Total War: WARHAMMER III - An Introduction to Grand Cathay - Total War

Hello, welcome back to TotalWar.com, it’s finally time. Ahead of the screams of getting to the point, let’s just jump right to it, shall we? 中文版请在我们的Bilibili专栏查看 What is Grand Cathay? Grand Cathay is the largest nation in the Warhammer world. Far beyond the mountains to the east, past the lands...

www.totalwar.com

On mining: Ah, I think my confusion came from being quoted on mining and in the context of people turtling and the ship's materials being brought up I got the wrong sense that it was some counterpoint to mining being a good idea being presented, ugh my brain really failed me there.

On Building Yet Another Armored unit: I admit I don't see much need for us building an armored regiment from scratch in the next few years, we already have working tanks and both mortals and marines with vehicular experiance, while giants and ghorgons and dragons exist, it is not like they typically or maybe ever canonically form armies together which in my mind would be the sort of scenario calling for making tanks in the near future.

Now we might want a lot more later to conquer say a very obnoxious strongpoint like skavenblight with far fewer casualties but we don't even know where that is yet. It's worth keeping in mind and I love the thought but into making such possible but it still feels premature. Then again I've been busy making plans for the end of this timeline or for things that would need decades or centuries to do so don't take this as harsh criticism but as just puzzlement.
Although I'm assuming tanks are just being used as one example of that because this guard might also be aware of things like walkers(sentinals) and cataphron battle servitors

A radical proposal: Cut out the entire Stewardship section. Nobody has a gun to your head insisting you use the five categories from CK2. (I hope.)

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I am actually a huge fan of the stewardship section if it makes even the slightest difference. I really love thinking about and planning on expanding our capabilities with things like the Apothecarian, Fortress Monastery addons, and Genetorium. I admit though even for me things like ''Dig A Way (1 of 4)'' is kind of boring and frustrating,

...This is somewhat of a complicated topic. Broadly speaking, I'm more inclined to make things sensible than I am to try and accommodate ridiculous things. (snip)

It depends on what sort of thing you want as well.

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I always meant to get back to this but indeed one thing I was thinking about was trying to present the world a little more sensibly as you say.

For some general examples:
Part of the reason I found Book of the Rat compelling enough to mistake it for canon until I found the authors information was in terms of skaven careers, they seemed to have more realistic options than I found elsewhere I guess because GW didn't want to make skaven very playable in the RPG's or something?
Like Clan Verm being the only group of skaven trained to manipulate small ''mundane'' animals seems ludicrous with the number of rat swarms we see from the larger armies being directed around.

In general, it feels like the setting has too many monsters not enough for them to eat. The Wolf Lands, well darklands in generall actually for the most part and Badlands being particularly weird for me to think about. There are easy ways to make such less er immersion breaking.
Stuff like that was what I thought should be modified slightly generally.

 

[FractiousDay]

In general, it feels like the setting has too many monsters not enough for them to eat. The Wolf Lands, well darklands in generall actually for the most part and Badlands being particularly weird for me to think about. There are easy ways to make such less er immersion breaking.
Stuff like that was what I thought should be modified slightly generally.

Click to shrink...

Yea, that gets into logistics again. I assume the large numbers of hypercarnivores for example is a result of Ghur. Indeed, otherwise you just wouldn't have enough animals to sustain the seemingly constant tide of enormous creatures.

It does bring an interesting point up regarding food sources though. Potentially the most effective means of destroying the skaven would be to strike at their food sources because of their constant hunger, which would precipitate civil war, or at least a revealing when they attack the surface to get more food.

 

[Exmorri]

New plan: Pacify Mallus by turning off Ghur undercuts the giant monsters and ogres and beastmen and several other unreasonably large, hungry, logistics-ignoring and/or man-eating factions in favor of good, sensible humans growing beans on their farms. Besides, 7 is a better number for winds of magic.

 

[Just Some Guy]

[X]Plan: Building Our Future

 

[FractiousDay]

Khong Interlude

The Rhinos crept through the fetid jungle.

Tracks crushed the mulch of centuries beneath them, engines roared, belching smoke as they powered through the undergrowth, snapping small trees in half as they went, even the larger plants cut aside by dozer blades.

The 3rd Company had been deployed by the Chapter's Thunderhawks, two tanks carried under each Transporter, twenty Astartes in each of the aircraft. They came in waves, establishing themselves on the brow of a ridge fifty miles from the conurbation of Beastmen in the southern jungles.

They were seen, mutant bands approaching, everyone in that region having seen the golden chariots which set the Celestial Lions down on the jungle floor. But the stern gaze and the roar of the vehicles scared all the beastmen away and the Company proceeded without interruption.

Kaaram, Codicier of the Librarium, rode an Attack Bike, the steed beneath him obedient to his touch and command upon its runes. The Librarian was there to observe and support the Company, to set himself against any mutant sorcerers, and to advise Corax, the Captain of the 3rd, regarding tactics.

The Master of Rites rode atop a Rhino, his helmet off, the gold and silver service studs embedded in his skull shining in the sun, marking his rank and seniority.

"Brother Abdu," the Captain said into his vox-caster, "Take that valley there to the west," and he pointed, the Dreadnought turning to him, "We will drive them to you."

"May the Great Lion rend them." replied the artificial roar of Abu, interred in his life-sustaining sarcophagus, deep within the walker's chassis.

Kaaram watched as the Devastator Squads and several of the tanks followed Abdu, setting up in the valley, ready to receive the foe.

"Take positions." came the order after an hour's journey further into the jungle, and the Company rapidly spread out, some even climbing into the canopies of the massive trees above to rain fire and death upon the foe.

It reminded Kaaram of the forests of their lost homeworld, Elysium IX, the enormous trees, each as wide as a tank, and the cloying vegetation, and yes, the ambushers waiting to strike.

With a thought the Librarian unholstered his bolter and fired it blind into the brush. A fine red mist coated one of the trees and the troupe of mutants which had been gathering there scattered in terror as the shell burst apart their leader.

Everywhere small skirmishes broke out. Nothing challenging, yet in these brief bouts hundreds of mutants died and the rest fled.

Then they waited for the next stage of the plan. Kaaram, his Witchsight giving him greater awareness than his brothers, stepped off his bike and approached the dead mutant, pushing aside the undergrowth to expose its debased form.

The creature was about three metres tall, slightly larger than an Astartes, in both height and the width of its shoulders. It had the physicality of an ape, an enormous one, black furred, covered in crude ornaments of gold and bone, blasphemous sigils written in blood on the thing's fur like warpaint.

Kaaram stabbed his Force Staff into the ground and stooped, gripping the creature's horns in his Ceramite-clad hands, then ripping them to the sides. The mutant's skull broke in two with a sickening crunch, it's brainmatter sloughing out onto the floor. The Librarian inspected the substance closely, then taking some in his hand he put some of it into his mouth and swallowed.

The Astartes' transhuman organs processed the matter as it sat in his stomach, the nerve-bundles in his spine interfacing with his Remembrancer, the Omophagea, to conduct the experiences and memories of his prey into his mind.

He felt the creature's rage, it's black ambition, but he also saw its plans, how it thought to take the golden men captive and present them to its master. Kaaram also saw the thing's deeper plans and stood, striding over to his bike and awakening its machine spirit once more, roaring off further up the trail.

Meanwhile, Corax was inside the Rhino, examining holo-graphs on a cogitator's eerie display. The mutants numbered twenty thousands, and for a force of eighty warriors to take them on might ordinarily be considered foolish. It was not so for the Emperor's Lions.

The mutants, apemen like Kaaram had examined, but of varying appearance and mutations, were gathered in a bowl-like depression, surrounded by tall trees. Their settlement, if the hovels and offal pits could be called such, were clustered around a large ape statue, with various ornaments and bloody trophies piled high at the colossi's feet. The statue was at least as large as a Titan, though a small one, and Corax idly wondered at the detail on the piece when compared with the crude bone implements and fur clothing of the apemen generally. Indeed, it was more as if an incredible large specimen of their kind had been petrified, rather than it being hewn in some ancient age.

A pulsing rune on the cogitator display drew Corax's attention and he grunted.

"Positions established, my lord." a marine relayed, bringing the Rhino to a halt at the edge of the depression.

Corax went again to his perch in the commander's cupola, looking out.

The 3rd Company crested the ridge around the Beastmen. Golden tank and golden armoured Astartes stood around the valley, more in the trees with commanding positions over the horde. Their enemy clearly knew they were there, indeed, they were making sacrifices before battle and their chiefs and sorcerers rallied their folk against the sky-born strangers.

A low roar became evident as the Astartes stood there.

Five Thunderhawks flew down out of the clouds on an attack run, heavy bolters and multi-lasers spraying death below, the boom of their speed disorienting the Beastmen even as their leaders struggled to comprehend these new auric terrors. Then, abruptly, the five dragons pulled away, releasing a deadly cargo, over a hundred incendiary bombs.

Cages of Southland junglefolk who'd been prepared in sacrifices watched as the Beastmen were slain, and their leaders held their hands to the sky in thanks to their gods as the mutants were slaughtered, voices uplifted in praise of the Celestial Lord even as their bodies were consumed along with the mutants.

The bombs didn't kill all of them though.

"Fire!"

At Corax's word the 3rd opened up. Bolter shots filled the air, the deep booms of the rocket-propelled rounds filling the jungle, the sizzling beams of the Predator's lascannon cutting swathes in the Beastmen's ranks as they tried to rise.

"Advance as one."

The Golden Sons stepped forward, the previously puny fifty now terrible and deadly, walking slowly down the sides of the depression toward the ape statue.

There was but one exit, off to the east, into a valley that led away, carved over centuries by a river which now flowed as a mere creek.

Maddened by pain and terror, the Apemen took the path, their numbers surging after their High Shaman as their holy people led them.

The valley was curved, allowing thousands of the Beastmen into it before the first ranks rounded the corner and saw what was before them.

"For the Golden Son!" came the bellow of the Dreadnought and his Devastator attendants, two squads attached to the Ancient opening up with their heavy weapons, bolter rounds, gouts of plasma, missiles and beams from lascannons cutting swathes into the Beastmen, utterly halting them.

The thousands who'd escaped the initial strike fled back, yet only to find the bolters and guns of the other marines greeting them. Assault Marines dove down, jump packs firing, Attack Bikes revving as they went about with grenades and chainswords, turning the ground to bloody muck with the ferocity of their attack.

Not a single Marine was even wounded during the battle, the slaughter that followed. The ground was covered in bloody offal, the life of the Apemen leaking away in such quantities that the Marines began to wade up to their knees at the lowest levels of the settlement.

They made their way through the final survivors, the Astartes in the trees far away picking off any psykers with their Stalker Bolters and other long range weaponry while Kaaram the Codicier tore the Warp away from any who tried to gather it for witchery.

The 3rd Company surrounded the ape statue, ammunition largely expended, slaying the last apemen with combat knives, their fists, or the treads of their tanks, which split skulls as they crunched over the corpsefield.

A single High Shaman stood atop an altar built over the ape-statue's cupped hands.

It, for surely such a thing was forbidden anything so humanising as a gender, was a disgusting creature, even among the debased examples of its kind. It's skin erupted in bony nodules like the armour plates of a great lizard, its spiked tail slithered behind it, clutching a golden sword. Its head was the head of a bull, a mane of sorcerous fire about its shoulders and neck. The creature was defiant till the end, till Corax ripped the golden sword from its grasp as it lashed at him, then drove the blade into the creature's heart, impaling it against the statue.

Corax stepped back, ready to watch the life fade from the sorcerer before his eyes.

"Hak-" the creature coughed, some unholy resilience keeping it alive even with such a mortal wound, "Sky-men will die here."

That the thing spoke disturbed the Captain, and he went to step forward, driving the blade deeper into the creature, twisting it as he did.

The Apething moaned, but began to cough again, and it was a few seconds before Corax realised it was laughing.

The wind picked up, and it seemed to send rippled through the bloodpool below which the statue now sat in.

"Blood for the Blood God." the creature managed to retch.

Before Corax's eyes the sorcerer began to desiccate. It's mass shrunk as if aging rapidly, as if it's essence was being drawn somewhere. The pressure of the place increased as if before a storm.

And above the Company the statue opened its eyes.

With the last of its strength the mutant spoke again…

"Blood for Khong!"