It's mildly shocking to hear ''burnout'' on Warhammer 40,000 (it seems an almost infinitely wide universe among a cluster of them!), especially on a quest with a premise as unusual as this one.
I usually just read the story as it came out as I am usually satisfied with what the majority of the questers decide. I'd maybe chine in a bit to make a joke but would engage in discussions if I feel like I have a point no one considered yet.
As to the burnout, I still love Warhammer 40k but most 40k quest usually follows the same feel and formula that I know what to expect so it doesn't interest me as much as it did anymore. Which is why I still follow WHF and other fandoms more, more nuance and variety to the more monotone of 40k. I still like 40k but it has dropped a bit on my list of priority fandoms.
I mean there might be but I wouldn't tell you either way. Dreadnoughts have a thing about getting harder and harder to wake up as they age, so that'something to consider. I would also say they give a certain legitimacy, wisdom, etc, vs a chapter which has none of them or something.
The very fact we have Juvenants changes that game, especially since theres no reason I can see for those men to not *also* train others.
The longer one lives the more one can in fact train, or at least write field manuals and the like.
Differences include for relevance: population, tech levels, stability of the polities, allies, population counts, religion, hell just the fact we aren't talking about merely men being frontline fighters is radically different.
So I've done some quick googling around this. My point is more in terms of costs. Juvenats are very expensive, and very well controlled. I think the lowest level people who might have them are IG Colonels, Tech Priests etc, while they're more common for Inquisitors or Planetary Governors.
You do have access to Juvenat stuff, you've got Biologis magi about who can make some, but to give thousands of people that sort of treatment is, I would argue, unecessary.
To illurstrate costs, apparently a soldier costs £40k to train, an officer £100k, and a special forces operator £1m. Lets then imagine that a Juvenat treatment, which maybe you have to have every 20 years, costs £5m each time for each person.
Could you bear such an expense? Vs just training more operators instead of Juvenating the ones you have? Sure you could maybe, but if the Imperiumk did that generally, that is, if the economics and social aspects worked, I think they'd do it more.
Hm. While I might accept that it could be done, I don't want the questers just not taking decisions. In general, people need to either act or accept consequences for things. Here for example you could be taking other options, but if you do you'd lose some of the expertise etc of void warfare because there hasn't been and void ship stuff in 20 years. It's the same with the Dreadnoughts for example, I don't just want poeople to say 'oh we can somehow get around this', there does have to be consequences for such things.
Alternatively, I might say you could Juvenat them, but that it would be very expenisve, like maybe 3 actions worth over a few turns, there are a lot of people to Juvenat for example. Also it might cause resentment etc.
To note, the Chaplaincy have approved the project. Nothing will be suggested without it having been approved by everyone. Or at least, if ti wasn't approved I'd note it in the narrative or something.
but most 40k quest usually follows the same feel and formula that I know what to expect so it doesn't interest me as much as it did anymore. Which is why I still follow WHF and other fandoms more, more nuance and variety to the more monotone of 40k.
Quite curious about this if you'd be willing to go into it more. Are you referring for example to 40k quests preocupation with Chapter Masters etc? That is indeed a weakness of particular quests (including this one to an extent). There's a Salamanders successor quest, this quest, and the Blood Ravens one and indeed they're fairly similar.
Apologies, clearly my understanding as of late have been..subpar. I am embarrassed.
On Witchery it was the fact that it was described as '' a horrific idea'' that made me think it was probably only the spirit walkers approving, knowing otherwise changes things.
Also fair, on treating health and aging on widescale shouldn't be cheap and I wouldn't argue for it is as easy as the other options at, just that it did seem viable, nothing comes without cost in this game usually high after all.
I also misunderstood and thought the whole population was needing to be replaced, honestly, indeed I agree that reserving such for skilled officers while causing resentment does seem ''reasonable'' from an imperial point of view if I grasp theirs correctly.
I think I'll add a write-in that only covers maintaining the longevity of 100 operatives since officers cannot be in all places and indeed you have convinced me that operating on the whole force wouldn't be needed even as a guarantor against slowdowns.
I guess if my sillier plan is being taken seriously I may as well put one vote towards each to start things with more than one voter and more than one plan. *shrug*
I guess if my sillier plan is being taken seriously I may as well put one vote towards each to start things with more than one voter and more than one plan. *shrug*
Are you referring for example to 40k quests preocupation with Chapter Masters etc? That is indeed a weakness of particular quests (including this one to an extent). There's a Salamanders successor quest, this quest, and the Blood Ravens one and indeed they're fairly similar.
I think I got tired of "CK2" quests with boring characters. Torroar's Drunken Dynasty Quest is a "CK2" style quest has an interesting Protag that I liked, most 40k quests have pretty generic protagonists as the player character so I don't get invested in whether they die or not. Same thing with the Estalia quest, an interesting protagonist that I can get behind and is very well written.
I haven't read Torroar's Blood Raven Quest, its on my read-list but I never gotten around to it cause I procrastinate. So AU quests with established characters or have well written protags are usually what usually keeps me invested.
Phew, we got through the timeskip without too many terrible accidents, and learned an important lesson in humility that this planet is full of nasty surprises and psyker bullshit.
I'm jumping around a bit between posts, last time I was on about naval, looking at it now I think we need more uplift, generally economy-focused, to produce the population and expertise and materials and guns and general stuff so our production can get to spaceship levels. Right now it's not even at airplane levels, and we're struggling with cars.
I don't care if the Mechanicus is in charge or not, if they want to expand recruitment or choose to leave "basics" to general population, either's fine.
So...
Diplomacy - no strong opinion, Southern Realms looks like easy pickings, Sisters of the Word fits with a general theme of expanding our capabilities.
Stewardship - Serf-Militarum Production and Regularise Uplift are what I really want here. Guns, people who can use guns, and people who can make guns.
Peregrin would be nice, Genetic Restructing has a long lead time so best to get it done early.
Martial - Lighthouse Keepers looks time-sensitive, probably best to get that done so we don't have to reinvent spaceflight too much, Amputate the Amputari are a new and spreading chaos threat that should probably be stamped on.
Intrigue - no strong opinion.
Learning - Veiling is urgent, IMO, because many of the uses of Amra's Personal action are soft-blocked by that, Glowy Amra would derail a lot of things.
Stewardship - Serf-Militarum Production and Regularise Uplift are what I really want here. Guns, people who can use guns, and people who can make guns.
They get their own air transport. Just as important is artillery without needing to rely on the chapter or mechanicus for mechanised assaults or transportation.
[X] Plan Priorities
Diplomacy
-[x] Sisters of the Word
The Imperial Creed is rather weak on Mallus. Command a massive expansion of the Hospitalliers to strengthen their organisation and iterate Terra's Truth across the Old World, with the associated other benefits of the Ordo such as the actual Hospitallier services.
-[x] Psyker Survey
As Thalis suggests, a survey must be undertaken of the psykers among the human and abhuman populations of Mallus, or at least those known of. While the Djinncallers seem to have be rightly cautious of daemons, there now exists a danger that some other order of witches might call more Traitor Astartes to Mallus.
Stewardship
-[x] Exotic Resource Surveys
While the Mechanicus have identified some sites, more will be necessary in the coming years to feel the Imperium's foundries, especially in the more rare resources.
-[x] Serf-Militarum Production
Currently production has been ad hoc, dependant on individual Magi creating runs of equipment. This must be made more regular, starting with the armed forces. Establish facilities to create PDF level equipment mostly consisting of auto-guns and other similar material, with lesser quantities of more advanced equipment being produced such as lasguns.
-[x] Serf Vehicle Production
The Serf-Militarum are critically lacking in vehicles. Establish production facilities to remedy this, producing Cargo-6s and 8s, Valkyries, as well as Chimeras and artillery.
Martial
-[x] Lighthouse Keepers
The Pharosian Guardsmen and women are all now reaching retirement age, with even the youngest members pushing into middle age. Without action, retirement will mean the Imperium loses their unique skills in void warfare and Zone Mortalis action. Create a programme to slim down the formation to single Divisio of 10,000, and to maintain these skills through drill and training.
-[x] Push into the Desert
The Tomb Kings were broken by the Fulgurite Field, but they were not destroyed. Several forces of undead and their leaders escaped and have returned to their cities, while others simply wander aimlessly in the desert. It would be better to deal with these sooner rather than later, and now that Settra's Storm of Magic has been dispelled, it is expected that a moderate force of Marines would be able to deal with the enemy.
-[x] Amputate the Amputari
The Amputari, the unique organisms which developed from the now destroyed Flesh-that-Hates, have become endemic in the northern reaches of the world. It would be well if their flourishing was curtailed.
Intrigue
-[x] Assassins and Witches
Hunt down and root out the final remnants of the Assassins and Djinncallers, known to have fled Araby before the conclusion of Araby's conquest. Many single Djinncallers have been identified, especially in the Southern Realms, employed as court conjurers by mortal rulers and have even taken on apostate apprentices! They cannot be permitted to establish themselves again.
Learning
-[x] The Ancients
The Chapter maintains 5 of the ancients known as Dreadnoughts, yet the Tomb-Brothers seem to have succumbed to a malaise recently. Even the Venerable Ancient of the Chapter has become difficult to wake, unwilling to rouse himself to the fury that is necessary. This is a concerning matter and Hath-Horeb intends to conduct an investigation.
-[x] Veiling
While Amra's form is might and beautiful for many to look upon, the Chapter Master has still not revealed himself publicly to the Imperium-on-Mallus, directing matters from behind a screen or via intermediaries. If there's any hope for the Chapter Master to go out without accusations of heresy, he must have a veil. Hath-Horeb and Khotan set themselves to designing a suit of armour to conceal the Chapter Master's appearance.
Personal
-[x] Soulbinding
With the assistance of his officers, Amra intends to attempt to soulbind several psykers to himself, as a proxy for the Emperor of Mankind, and by this safeguard their souls.
I have a feeling that (Amra interactions with Vampires/ Wights and the like)ought to be a ''try it and find out'' answer.
I imagine a very high roll could return a mortal to their former state before being changed, a middling all maybe a genetically useful human corpse, and a pretty low one an ash-filled explosion that kills all the serfs within two miles.
That's just my imagination though and would be contingent on Amra applying his psychic might in a way not equivalent to decapitating such dudes with a power sword, which I think would be his first instinct.
I have a feeling that (Amra interactions with Vampires/ Wights and the like)ought to be a ''try it and find out'' answer.
I imagine a very high roll could return a mortal to their former state before being changed, a middling all maybe a genetically useful human corpse, and a pretty low one an ash-filled explosion that kills all the serfs within two miles.
That's just my imagination though and would be contingent on Amra applying his psychic might in a way not equivalent to decapitating such dudes with a power sword, which I think would be his first instinct.
Oh drat I didn't realize I had voted prematurely, but at least that does mean [maximizing 'fun''] shouldn't be high in the running anymore, it wasn't even Initially meant to be plan to be voted on but like a prototype at best and a word of caution at worst.
@FractiousDay Given several people, sadly including myself thought the moratorium ended sooner than it had you might want to make this voting update a trademark.
[X]Not All Wisdom Brings Joy
Learning (Choose 2)
[X] Veiling
[X] The Ancients
Intrigue(Choose 1)
[X] Wastes Survey
The Flesh-that-Hates may be gone, but the Chaos Wastes still hold horrors. Or at least you assume so, you don't know after all.
Stewardship
[X] Exotic Resource Surveys
[X] Open the Biologis Vaults!
- To specify a little I'd really like to see some Mukali for the sake of helping to rebuild Araby at a lower cost as well as for scouting around Nehekara and the Badlands and anything else of that sort Beyond that....Shade Servitors wouldn't come from this option(I think) but would be nice I'd think but if the imperials have something like a more efficient oil palm or similarly hardy plants of economic utility that could also help stimulate rebuilding the region I'd think, those sorts of things, hopefully, that's not me being too much of a micromanager since you could adjust things.
[X] Serf-Militarum Production: Generally such a good thing that I almost don't know what to say besides seeing no downsides even if the vote failed somehow.
Martial
[X] Push into the Desert
[X] Amputate the Amputari
I really do like the idea of obtaining a spawning pool even more than I dislike the idea of tangling with even weakened slann, almost even more than I like the lizardmen too! That said Khalida and Apophas *Just* tried to pull out some sort of hex and made a coordinated attack on our chapter master, I think the remaining mummies even as weakened as they might be are an even greater threat right now than our geneseed troubles are.
Ditto for self-evolving flesh creature. Homogenizing Swarms are inherently nigh as deadly as their environments and they will get more training data the longer they live.
I also don't want us to war on three fronts when two already guaranteed we can't throw all our forces at a problem.
[X] Lighthouse Keepers Modified
Create a program to slim down the formation to a single Divisio of 10,000, and to maintain these skills through drill and training. Additionally, the hundred most mentally stable and physically fit NCO's and other experienced operators shall be maintained on rejuvenating treatments as some assurance against serious training slowdowns or severe maulings.
Diplomacy:
[X] Sisters of the Word
[X] Psyker Survey
Looking for witches while training their most equipped to obtain confessions feels like a no-brainer on synchronicity.
Really I think so much diplomacy and building got done last turn that I must have been sated off it for a time!
Personal:
[X] Soulbinding
With the assistance of his officers, Amra intends to attempt to soulbind several psykers to himself, as a proxy for the Emperor of Mankind, and by this safeguard their souls.
[X] Plan Priorities
Note:The difference between these plans boils down to a few things.
1. How to allocate resources to the Servus Militarum, I am for spending one slot on giving them guns and many pack-and-riding animals RX is more for giving them guns and likely significantly fewer but noticeably higher quality automobiles.
That and the difference in how to upkeep for them should be done. Juvenant and training are a costlier resource socially wise than just training but potentially reducing the lapse in our ability to mobilize our mortal men. Whereas regular training will still be cheap and effective but may leave our armies vulnerable for longer while it goes on.
2. What threat takes high priority for our chaplaincy to investigate with its spy network, the known threat or the unknown threat to us. That is the Djin Callers vs the Chaos Gods only knows what's lurking in the wastes.
The Closer threat geographically and temporally is obvious, the greater threat overall is very unclear but I'm hedging on it being in the wastes and my friendly competitor is likely betting on it being closer to home.
Otherwise, both plans are in agreement on diplomacy, learning, personal, etc.
@rx915 I hope that is not an unfair summary for others, in trying to present the differences and their nuances between our plans.
I'm fine with either of them winning but I don't want everyone to think they are identical just because we agree on what Amra, Hath Horeb and Hermina should be doing.
@rx915 I hope that is not an unfair summary for others, in trying to present the differences and their nuances between our plans.
I'm fine with either of them winning but I don't want everyone to think they are identical just because we agree on what Amra, Hath Horeb and Hermina should be doing.
For example I want to do an extra action in learning so Amra does one getting 3 instead of 2.
I know the other is to just have Amra focus personal attention on an existing one to yield a better bonus.
They get their own air transport. Just as important is artillery without needing to rely on the chapter or mechanicus for mechanised assaults or transportation.
Oh I know but having seen people vote for yours I have to try knowing what I thought is sensible is not chosen. I'll accept if it is chosen but it just gnaws at me.
