When your post starts with "first we need a technicolour unicorn" and gets more ridiculous from there you might want to take a step back and rethink things.
Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)
- Thread starter tri2
- Start date
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
I think you're seriously underestating both narrative effects and the power of the Citadel.
First, narratively, you have to consider that there is no real justification for a military build up in this scale. There's no enemy known that requires weapons of this power and this scale to defeat. To encourage a failure of a military treaty in order to create such a massive fleet then suggests that our goal is to spark an equally massive war. To refuse the treaty is for the System Alliance to say that it wants to pick a fight with the Council. Perhaps not today, but certainly tomorrow.
It also has major effects within the System Alliance. The only group which really wants these massive amounts of weaponry would be the xenophobes and human supremacists. So, the only political feasible way is for us to align us squarely with these people, with all the reputation effects that entails. This includes not just reputation effects among the population, but also among employees. If people realize that we appears to be stearing towards a massive war with untold loss of lives, then there will internal resistance. Sabotage, resignations, defections, leaks of data and classified blueprints and much, much more.
Consider next the power of the Citadel. The Citadel is not only the largest economy, but it has massive amounts of diplomatic, intrigue, scientific and other resources. Should they discover or decide that Revy is a danger to peace, then they will move to eliminate her. This may not take the face of a regular attack. It could easily be done through intrigue. The System alliance is already worried about the massive importance that Paragon has in regards to the economy. Recent decisions to fortify planets and turn into 1 corporation army have only worsened that. With Citadel backing, the government could easily be convinced to seize, national or distribute massive parts of the corporation to break it's stranglehold on it's technology and military. A government does not want 1 corporation to control both all power and all military force.
So, in summary :
1) The System Alliance does not want a massive military expansion
2) The System Alliance does not want to invite Council retaliation.
3) The System Alliance does not want to be dependent on us for a massive arms race that we started
- Location
- Leeds
I've also got an idea to piss of the reapers mightily,
first we need magic.
second we apply magic.
third we yeet space stations into deep space.
Terraforming tech efficient or otherwise is not simple and would need to be considered for each planet as the requirements are different each time, and the process is likely to take decades anyway, which is nothing in geological terms but not fast enough to dodge the reapers.
And the biggest problem is that theres need for steps one or two because step three can do pretty much exactly the same while being much harder to track down. The only limit on deep space stations is how many people we can get on them sustainably.
E:
Ninjad I guess. I think people often forget how large planets are. And if they need an atmosphere or any other missing parts, we need to import that from somewhere.
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kelgar04
Knight Watcher
- Location
- Here and no were
[X] Do not reveal the existence of your Gen III Arc Reactor
-[X] Use it only for your own personal use
[X] Name of new element?
-[X] Revium
For the Gen III maybe we should only reveal it when we make something better and black box it to hell and back.
-[X] Use it only for your own personal use
[X] Name of new element?
-[X] Revium
For the Gen III maybe we should only reveal it when we make something better and black box it to hell and back.
- Location
- Africa
the terraforming was always a long shot but the colonization tech and the space habitats would still be enough for the plan to work though , the terraforming would have taken it to the next level though
- Location
- UK
This. We need better/different FTL.
yeap its all good we can go faster than light but that does mean element 0. it would be nice in system to just use basic propulsion to get a to be without using up ezeo core
also tri2 can we offer a grant to the council races for there colony to build 5 Factory (II) or 2 Factory (III) if they build 1 of there own showing they spend there own money(no more than 1 project grant per planet). l think we need to invest about 200 billion but we would get a lot of good press and an easier time later on moveing into none human planets well except batarians of course they go f themselves .
system alliance included in above
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- Location
- UK
Eezo isn't used in sublight travel. Only FTL. We need different FTL so we are not constrained by relays. Easier to avoid Reapers and everyone else too.
oh l thought ship used it all the time even in sublite to move faster by lowering its mass. for FTL was star treks version at 1 point up for debate to include it because its one slower but most relabel ones
just going add a little bit here. there is very good reason for military build up for some people
Hanar Initiate Naval Rebuilding Program
It has been recently announced that the Hanar intend to replace their entire fleet with new vessels and to build up to the largest possible Navy that they can possibly sustain economically. This includes seven brand new Dreadnought class vessels, as well as five to six thousand other combat vessels and numerous additional support craft.
"The Message from the Enkindlers is clear. Just as the Enkindlers brought light, in their wake follows the Extinguishers. We must prepare for them to come. When we do not know, but the price of being unprepared is too high!" said a spokes person for the Illuminated Primacy.
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- UK
The problem with the Hanar, is that most people probably think they're just religious kooks. Only we know that they are actually right (ignoring they deify the Protheans).
true but they also did light a fire under people who are using outdated eqipment...if haner got better stuff than us why would we get a council seat. its a nightmare for our progress in that direction we wont get council seat as easy as we did in game
We have now researched the Multi Core Eezo System and are therefore no longer really dependent on using relays, we can now fly to planets that were previously out of range and build something there.
We are still dependent on relays when it comes to long journeys but that wouldn't really change with another FLT, the relays are the fastest thing there is, even if they just work like rails, keep moving from one point to another but nothing else.
We are still dependent on relays when it comes to long journeys but that wouldn't really change with another FLT, the relays are the fastest thing there is, even if they just work like rails, keep moving from one point to another but nothing else.
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- Location
- UK
This would only extend convenience and efficiency rather than range or actual speed I'd say. The cores just mean we can stay in FTL longer. Even if our range of operations can be increased it would be minor. Nothing much should change.
@tri2 how are handling our personal MKII armour? Do we actually have to build it or is Revy just adding new advancements as we go along? For example our current armour should have MK3 arc reactor in it now....
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Actually, with our ARC reactor and repulsers, we have the speed and range of a FLT jump increased before the ship has to get out of the FLT to discharge. Now with two or more Eezo cores, if one core has to discharge, another can take over while the previous discharges, so we have at least doubled if not even tripled the range.
Edit:
Let's say before we made our inventions the range the ships had was e.g. 5 light years a day before the core need to discharge, with the ARC reactor and repulsors that increased to 12 light years a day *, in other words we are two times faster than before. And now with more Eezo cores we can stay longer in the FLT and don't have to go out to discharge the core.
* This is just an example, I don't know the exact numbers but they were mentioned in the quest, but I hope you get what I'm talking about.
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- Location
- UK
I was talking about the core system in itself and how it would affect existing systems as in what we already have not canon ME.
Anyways my point is the how much time would not discharging save? The only difference now, is that you can have one uninterrupted journey instead of having breaks midway to discharge. The increase in range due to saving time shouldn't be significant enough to encourage more exploration.
Honestly? The output isn't worth the hype. This is only a 50% increase in energy density over our Gen IIs (20GW). Those decreased costs though is where it is at.
For comparison:
Baseline:
Gen 1: 05GW @ 50,000cr and 0.300pr
Gen 2: 20GW @ 60,000cr and 0.300pr
Gen 3: 30GW @ 10,000cr and 0.075pr
Equivalent Outputs:
Gen 1: 5GW @ 50,000cr and 0.300pr
Gen 2: 5GW @ 15,000cr and 0.075pr
Gen 3: 5GW @ 01,667cr and 0.013pr
So a 88.9% credit reduction and 82.7% production reduction. More interesting is that scaling down to the 1MW button batteries gets prices of 0.33 credits and 0.0000025pr. So even factoring the opportunity cost of production (baseline 260,000cr/pr) we could sell 1MW Gen III Arc Reactors for 0.98 credits. Enough output to power 800+ US homes indefinitely for under a credit. That would be a societal game changer.
If there is any reason to hold back on the Gen IIIs it isn't their capacity as weapons but their capability to change the fundamentals of technology. At this point everything would have a Gen III Arc Reactor in it; even your watch. Do they need 1MW of power? No but with how cheap it is why not? Even if 1MW Arc Reactors can't throttle lower to meet demand they would be deployed in bulk as wireless chargers. Wireless charging is pretty terrible and suffers heavily from inefficiency but when you can buy a megawatt of output for a single credit they become far more practical.
Combat wise it doesn't really provide anything that a slightly larger Gen II Arc Reactor does. To put things into perspective the standard Arc Reactor size (based off the Gen I 5GW) is 10cm across. For a Gen II to match a Gen III in output would require going from 10cm to 12.2cm which is such a small change it only matters for backwards compatibility not future designs.
Signing the treaty is explicitly one of the requirements for opening an embassy on the citadel:
so refusing to sign the treaty would presumably mean pulling out of the Citadel's Space!EU. While that would certainly hurt the Citadel, as you point out, thanks to Arc Reactors and Medi-gel it would hurt the Alliance far more. Honestly as far as the Alliance is concerned while the treaty would hurt, and stir up the pro-humanity factions, it doesn't really matter. Especially when all indications are that Revy will be producing super-Dreadnoughts that can style all over the all races Dreadnoughts despite the numbers disadvantage in the next couple years. So why mess with that?ME Wiki - Treaty of Farixen said:
From Paragon Industries perspective it would be a crippling blow to lose access to the Citadel market when the vast majority of our income comes from our sales of Arc Reactors there. To provide some perspective of the ~2.7 trillion in revenue we generated this quarter 1.8 trillion was from Arc Reactor sales on the Citadel market with our LLP sales to the Alliance a distant second at 0.6 trillion.
Honestly regardless of the result of the revisions are pulling out would be the worst possible outcome. Avoiding any restrictions on hypermodularity would be great although I'm honestly not sure the treaty writers have thought that one through. For starters modularity, like stealth, isn't a "feature" you simply add on; it is a way of life. It is a core fundamental of a design that everything else revolves around. You can simply remove modularity from a design. We could throw in a couple things to make it mildly more challenging but the only serious way to achieve it would be scrapping the entire Pynda line (Lite Laser Pyndas were only one variation of what was to be a family of starship) and start a new clean sheet design.
It really isn't. This is something Hoyr went into detail on the last thread in between updates so I'm not surprised it has been missed. The Treay is old and was already having issues since modern Cruisers now output as much firepower as the Dreadnoughts of old despite shorter MACs due to the endless march of technology. The real trigger for this apparently wasn't even the Lite Laser Pynda but our Zama design.
During our redesign of the Waterloo-class Revy redesigned the spinal gun to fire significantly faster:
Specifically twenty times faster then normal:
Once we started selling those people on the Citadel realized what a nightmare that represents since it effectively increases the firepower of any PI ships 20x. Imagine if the Alliance's Dreadnoughts fired not once every two seconds but every 0.1 seconds. Instead of a peak output of 19 kilotons per second it would be 380 kilotons per second and with our Arc Reactors they could sustain that basically indefinitely. With that kind of firepower our Cruisers, or possibly even our Frigates, would be able to drown Dreadnoughts in sheer weight of fire. That is before you consider that our laser weaponry already nullifies the superior shielding ability of Dreadnoughts.
Still the big concern is the MACs because they are existing technology. All anyone really needs is Arc Reactors (we're flooding the market) and the years (vs. Revy's months) to redesign their existing MACs to take advantage of the effectively unlimited power.
Indeed. There is a reason I've generally used banks of 5GW reactors, besides the redundancy that provides. A single larger unit can be more convenient for certain applications, like replacing a fusion reactor, but generally speaking you want a lot of smaller units. Which is why hooking Arc Reactors directly to the relevant systems rather then using a centralized power grid is the natural evolution of design.
Well it more that the treaty was exactly what the USA wanted. They'd ran the numbers and figured out that anything larger then 8" guns were generally pointless outside of battleship duels and they "just so happened" to have a number of good designs for 10,000t cruisers with 8" guns on them. That plus battleships being expensive and the US having a lot of coastal territory to protect (three oceans worth) so limiting everyone's ability to build big battleships that could resist their cruiser fleet's 8" guns was the USA's best way to ensure they could protect everything they needed without tanking the economy funding waves of battleships.
Because the numbers for future Lite Laser Pynda sales to the Alliance and future Arc Reactor sales to the Citadel haven't been locked in yet. All our other contracts are locked but those two are variable. It just appears that income dips only next quarter because the quarter afterwards our sales of Zama to the Hanar begin and that is a trillion per quarter in profit.
We may face issues with establishing facilities outside of Alliance territory due to how much military equipment we produce. This would go double for any non-human colonies. However there are, as you show, a fair number of good options there. Personally I think Bekenstein is good since it is literally right next door to the Citadel, already patrolled by the Citadel fleet, and thus generally very secure. We wouldn't want a particularly large facility there but it would make sense to produce our Citadel focused products (like Arc Reactors) there for easier distribution.
Earth and Luna are theoretically good targets but in practice I'm not so sure. The Sol system is already pretty heavily developed and the Batarians just demonstrated that they can bypass the normal Relay chains so it isn't as secure as it might otherwise be. Honestly other then Mindoir Sol is probably one of the most tempting targets for a Nova Bomb or other large scale weaponry.
Terra Nova and Eden Prime are both good candidates for being rather central in Alliance space. They are also in the same cluster so defense of the two should be relatively simple.
We actually just did that. This is the description for Multi-Core Drives:
Note the bracketed section at the end. Our ships are already 4x faster then the next fastest thing out there (well generally only 3x to save on Eezo costs) so when combined with Multi-Core Eezo Systems we are going to be kicking off the next wave of galactic expansion. Even with restrictions on selling our tech this can still easily be used for intensifying the Systems Alliance's current space since now planets off the Relay map are easier to colonize.
To provide some context for what this means a normal ship in Mass Effect peaks out at 15LY/day, and in Shepard quest civilian ships are more in the 5 to 10 range, and capable of operating for ~50 hours between discharges with discharge times varying from an hour to days. Stars are roughly speaking about 5LY apart on average although not all of them have good discharge sites. So in theory if you can travel in a straight line for a week you'd get between 35LY and 70LY from your origin point. When you factor in the need to deviate for systems to discharge in (lets say that the jaggedness increases the distance traveled by between 25% and 50%*) that drops down to between 17.5LY and 52.5LY.
*If you can only go 5LY/day then you get ~10LY before you need to discharge while at 10LY/day it is 20LY. With an average distance of 5LY between stars that means you have to stop at every second system to discharge at 5LY/day. Every fourth at 10LY/day.
Meanwhile if you are doing 45LY/day with no need to stop for discharges then in a straight line you can travel 315LY per week. This increases your reasonable colony volume from between 22,449.3 cubic lightyears on the low end (17.5LY/week) and 595,799 cubic lightyears on the high end (52.5LY/day) to 130,924,000 cubic lightyears. Perhaps more usefully at normal densities that increases the number of accessible star systems from between 48 and 1,138 to 250,045. Literally a 200+ increase on the low end.
- Location
- UK
Hmm.. It seems I vastly underestimated the value and range of uninterrupted travel.
There are ultimately three factors at play here:
- Low distance between recharging compared to distance between star systems results in inefficient paths.
- Low speed drives limit maximum practical colonization ranges.
- Drive discharges leave ships completely vulnerable.
I suspect we'll see a lot of post-war Pyndas assigned to survey duty (since the Alliance will likely have far more then they need) thanks to their immense speed. Retrofitting them with Mutli-core Eezo Drives will only take that up a notch.
Oh and something else Multi-core Eezo Drives are vital for; high speed response. Having to stop even for just an hour to discharge when racing to help a colony, like say Mindoir, can make a serious difference. MCED equipped Pyndas will significantly enhance the effectiveness of the Alliance's rapid response. This is seriously important given that, rather then large garrison forces or patrols, is the Alliance's primary solution to the question of defending its large territory.
- Location
- Leeds
The profit margins are already ridiculous on the Mk II and we're selling the minimum needed to maintain our patent. Not sure it would really be worth it considering that research is valuable.
- Location
- UK
I think we need an equivalent of 40K System Monitors. They would be cheaper than actual ship and would cut down on the need for an over stretched patrol force.
[X] Do not reveal the existence of your Gen III Arc Reactor
-[X] Use it only for your own personal use
[X] Name of new element?
-[X] Revium
I can only hope that this is the first inkling of our future creation of a personal custom high tech Iron Man suit, rather then the production model we've been using so far.
-[X] Use it only for your own personal use
[X] Name of new element?
-[X] Revium
I can only hope that this is the first inkling of our future creation of a personal custom high tech Iron Man suit, rather then the production model we've been using so far.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Anyway, for the treaty the primary problem that we're facing is that we absolutely do not want the council to ban hypermodular tech, given that that is what our ship designs are fundemantally based upon.
Thus, we need to come up with an explanation that lets the council accept hypermodular tech, without making it blatantly obvious that we're trying to cheat the restrictions.
Here are a few possibilities
1. Treat every hypermodular vessel as if it using the most lethal armament available, even if it isn't.
2. Regulate smaller number of hypermodular vessels as testbed platforms, while keeping standard fleets standard
3. Regulate based on some unchangeable characteristic, such as eezo core strength, length, or something like that
4. Allow council inspections of military facilities and modular kit production facilities so that new modular tech can not be build in secret.
5. Take significant penalties on power/heat generation in exchange for letting the modular tech pass.
6. Maybe rope the Hanar in for support. After all, the treaty would hurt them too, and maybe we can offer them some sweet deals on reactor tech.
Thus, we need to come up with an explanation that lets the council accept hypermodular tech, without making it blatantly obvious that we're trying to cheat the restrictions.
Here are a few possibilities
1. Treat every hypermodular vessel as if it using the most lethal armament available, even if it isn't.
2. Regulate smaller number of hypermodular vessels as testbed platforms, while keeping standard fleets standard
3. Regulate based on some unchangeable characteristic, such as eezo core strength, length, or something like that
4. Allow council inspections of military facilities and modular kit production facilities so that new modular tech can not be build in secret.
5. Take significant penalties on power/heat generation in exchange for letting the modular tech pass.
6. Maybe rope the Hanar in for support. After all, the treaty would hurt them too, and maybe we can offer them some sweet deals on reactor tech.
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