Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

Do you want a boring answer or a funny one?

I have the funny one on tap:
i'm not sur to understand the joke?,it sound like a statement that when the company you work for take care of your every need it's unhealty,wich sound right,and i think you try to say that anything we do to try to improve the world from his curent dystopic state will be useless and become another part of the oppression and cause even larger and more insidious suffering ?
 
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i'm not sur to understand the joke?,it sound like a statement that when the company you work for take care of your every need it's unhealty,wich sound right,and i think you try to say that anything we do to try to improve the world from his curent dystopic state will be useless and become another part of the oppression and cause even larger and more insidious suffering ?

No, the joke is that in PROGENITOR WORM we were going to use superpowered social engineering to do a quiet revolution. :V
 
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do you think we can do something to improve the situation ?,making that universe less distopic ?,even if no or only a little part of it i think it would be nice to try.

I tryed that one,a little to dry for my taste but a nice reading
Yes and no?
Really depends on what your goal is, we've already made some nice strides in terms in terms of the medical developments and distributing gene mods with charities as a universal health care, although in hindsight the fact that that didn't kick off a new wave of conspiracy theorists is SoD breaking. We were so naive before Covid.
Although I don't remember if we've implemented it yet, I think the cost of single person ships was getting low enough that that tech could be used for archeology building to replace slums.

However if you want to fix everything then we're fundamentally limited by being a single person with science super powers, and while Revy can do a lot, she's not actually better equipped to fix social problems that don't have a technological solution than anyone else... with the caveat that most other people can't hand a lot of money to someone who does have the necessary skills and say "Find a way to fix that for me." And even then, critics have pointed out that there are fundamental limits and contradictions that create problems that charity is unable to address successfully.
If just making everyone richer trickled down and around, the wealth gap and slum problems on earth would have been fixed over the last couple of centuries. Some things like Project Earthfall can be a good step however they're still limited in that our best factories are fully automated space stations which are terrible at providing good jobs to underserved communities. And even the jobs we can offer are likely going to require decent levels of education which may implicitly freeze slum dwellers out of being able to apply.
Furthermore when you look at some of the stuff: interfering in other species and nations politics isn't really feasible. We can't fund a grassroots political campaign to replace the Turian system with something more humanistic, because thats not how Military Junta's work.
We can advocate and lobby for better regulation and control over corporations, however PI despite how disproportionately influencial it is is actually a tiny % of the quadrillions that must be passing through the entire galactic community and those others will just as strongly be lobbying against us.

The problem at the end of the day is that, the endemic problems in the ME verse run DEEP. And to resolve them is the work of decades or centuries, not something that can be done on a quarterly timescale while balancing the company budget.
And even if our unironic best solution is to allow the Reapers to destroy everything so that we can rebuild the galaxy in our image with no competition. The Holy Revyarchy where societal position is determined by how big brain is not a concept without its own inherent problems.
 
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I agree the Mass Effect as a piece of media is practically the ur-representation of neoliberal end of history thought, and the writers very clearly didn't fully critically analyze the world they created (although honestly, maybe that was for the best, because it give us such a fantastic piece of media to criticize).

That said… this is pretty clearly a capitalism quest. We've invested ourselves preparing to fight an existential war against the Reapers and secure humanities position as a big player at the table by becoming a nigh benevolent philosopher king of a CEO.

Let's please not start another SV flame war over real life politics (even as applicable as they seem to be). Shepard Quest is what it is, its direction has been set for years. We're not suddenly overthrowing the social order.
 
Not *yet*. :V

Now be fair, the Reaper war is coming, and that sort of conflict is bound to lead to norms being broken and unthinkable changes being done.
If Paragon Industries happen to be there to provide food, shelter, and protection while the major polities have thrown state capacity away in the pursuit of higher stock market returns... well, when it's all over and they ask us to hand control back to them we can just... say no.

So in that respect using PI as an incubator for the modes of social organization we want to see is a pretty good idea because we can have them ready to go when the time comes.
 
Not *yet*. :V

Now be fair, the Reaper war is coming, and that sort of conflict is bound to lead to norms being broken and unthinkable changes being done.
If Paragon Industries happen to be there to provide food, shelter, and protection while the major polities have thrown state capacity away in the pursuit of higher stock market returns... well, when it's all over and they ask us to hand control back to them we can just... say no.

So in that respect using PI as an incubator for the modes of social organization we want to see is a pretty good idea because we can have them ready to go when the time comes.
:p
And even if our unironic best solution is to allow the Reapers to destroy everything so that we can rebuild the galaxy in our image with no competition. The Holy Revyarchy where societal position is determined by how big brain is not a concept without its own inherent problems.
I think from a truely outside perspective, theres probably no way to create an ideal society within a quest because we would want democracy in that society, but in a quest its mechanically unsatisfying to give up complete control so we'd always tend more towards a benevolent dictatorship.
 
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:p

I think from a truely outside perspective, theres probably no way to create an ideal society within a quest because we would want democracy in that society, but in a quest its mechanically unsatisfying to give up complete control so we'd always tend more towards a benevolent dictatorship.

Not really. You just switch the narrative from 'Revy is deciding this' to 'people are deciding this'.

Mechanically nothing really changes.
 
On number eight pretty sure that's flat out fanon that heavy gene modding is outlawed in Citadel space and that's more the SA itself banning that kind of thing to preserve human 'uniqueness' IIRC.

Also have you seen the real world or real world history? Like the Citadel may have it's issues but pretty much all governments and people have their own issues. Heck, there are outright true grimdark dsytopia's like the Cyberpunk 2077 universe, Fallout and Warhammer 40K.
 
On number eight pretty sure that's flat out fanon that heavy gene modding is outlawed in Citadel space and that's more the SA itself banning that kind of thing to preserve human 'uniqueness' IIRC.

Also have you seen the real world or real world history? Like the Citadel may have it's issues but pretty much all governments and people have their own issues. Heck, there are outright true grimdark dsytopia's like the Cyberpunk 2077 universe, Fallout and Warhammer 40K.

It really depends on how broad the ban on the creation of sapient life is and whether it includes heritable gene therapies and radical gene mods.
Certainly we haven't seen anything of the sort.

As to the rest... ok? I wasn't calling ME a grimdark distopia?
 
only genemods I remember ban is ones that add functions that you would not naturally have, like being able to digest cellulose, or spit acid, or any other thing you could not normally do.
 
It really depends on how broad the ban on the creation of sapient life is and whether it includes heritable gene therapies and radical gene mods.
Certainly we haven't seen anything of the sort.

As to the rest... ok? I wasn't calling ME a grimdark distopia?
Wasn't the genetic engineering ban only for creating life just for it to be enslaved by their creators?

Same thing with AI?

It's just that the Geth Uprising (i.e. the Quarians overreacting and fucking up their handling of the Geth) caused the Citadel to knee-jerk and soft-ban AI for centuries (until they relaxed the ban and allowed for limited research to be done, so long as a license was held) along with killing all AI and Synthetic Races in their territories out of paranoia.

But back to genetic engineering, it's the Systems Alliance that went full bio-conservative and only focusing on improving what Humanity already has instead of adding new stuff.

Still surprised that we haven't had to deal with the Batarians ignoring the Citadels laws and making entire slave races for their convenience (in canon and this quest).
 
Honestly while I don't really care for the capitalism vs socialism aspect of the current discussion CyberFemme brings up a fascinating point about what we should do in the aftermath of the Reaper War.

It's been a while since I played the games, but weren't the Mass Relays critically damaged? If Mindoir gets cut off from the rest of galactic society that could be a pretty interesting direction to take the quest.
 
There are literal so many years to cover between now and then and its likely that the quest just ends because the tech tree wasn't designed for an infinite quest it was designed to not run out of research before the Reaper invasion.
And Relay tech is on the research tree, so even if the relays are critically damaged, repairing them isn't off the table.
 
There are literal so many years to cover between now and then and its likely that the quest just ends because the tech tree wasn't designed for an infinite quest it was designed to not run out of research before the Reaper invasion.
And Relay tech is on the research tree, so even if the relays are critically damaged, repairing them isn't off the table.
We would be cut off from the rest of civilised space, I'm not sure we would have the resources to build one.
 
We would be cut off from the rest of civilised space, I'm not sure we would have the resources to build one.
Artifical Eezo creation is also on the list.
The Mindoir solar system has gas giants and several rocky dwarf planets.
The ME Relays are damaged, they don't cease to exist.

Even if we need to mine a lot of material at both sides of the relay, the real slow down would be traveling there via non ME FTL....

Unless the side effects are so bad it shuts down literally all electronics, in which case I guess the quest becomes Dr Stone... Which feels like it swaps a lot of the attractions the quest currently has, large organisational planning, theory crafting, complaining about worldbuilding and such and replaces it with a totally different set of things that people might or might not be there for. I think it would still be better to just end the quest at that point and boot up a spin off. It would allow people who don't enjoy the Primitive Technology youtube channel to get closure and move on and people who do to just jump into the spin off.
 
I agree the Mass Effect as a piece of media is practically the ur-representation of neoliberal end of history thought, and the writers very clearly didn't fully critically analyze the world they created (although honestly, maybe that was for the best, because it give us such a fantastic piece of media to criticize).

That said… this is pretty clearly a capitalism quest. We've invested ourselves preparing to fight an existential war against the Reapers and secure humanities position as a big player at the table by becoming a nigh benevolent philosopher king of a CEO.

Let's please not start another SV flame war over real life politics (even as applicable as they seem to be). Shepard Quest is what it is, its direction has been set for years. We're not suddenly overthrowing the social order.
Yeah, one of the things I absolutely can't stand in quests is people bringing in their politics to drastically change an entire setting and force to change in a way they want. Because as noted we have played Revy as a capitalist CEO that is a benevolent scientist Emperor type. Sure in real life I'm not exactly a fan of capitalism but here it's worked out well and at the end of the day it's supposed to be a fictional setting that is not real life. Besides Revy has been doing insane amounts of good with our current methods.

It is also infuriating to see people shit on a setting the quest is set in despite a lot of us liking the setting because it's unique. Like it's just flat out annoying seeing people trying to forcefully change the setting and force their own values down everyone's throats.
 
Because as noted we have played Revy as a capitalist CEO that is a benevolent scientist Emperor type.
Focusing on this bit for the moment.

What if in the aftermath of the Reaper War, Humanity balkanises and each Successor State is ruled by Scientist-Kings and their AI with the most powerful having access to (and reverse-engineered) Shepards tech?

Just go full canon DAoT by introducing other Marvel tier geniuses (and their associated mad science experiments) to the Mass Effect setting.

Whether only among Humans or for other races too, we'd be going full Warhammer in the aftermath.
 
On another topic.
Can we do Peak Quarian treatment next turn?
They would probably love being able to move around without their suits on by now.
 
It is also infuriating to see people shit on a setting the quest is set in despite a lot of us liking the setting because it's unique. Like it's just flat out annoying seeing people trying to forcefully change the setting and force their own values down everyone's throats.
Look, you realise we wouldn't be here if we didn't love it, right? That we didn't get 132 pages into the seventh thread by pure spite?
Acknowledging issues and critically reading the text are just the way some people engage with something they like.
And its pretty darn weird to complain to complain about people forcefully changing the setting when the only real change thats happened is the quests premise. Presumably you're okay with mass produced Iron Men and Laser space ships revolutionising the Alliance militaries.

And further more, we can separate personal politics and the quest. I would support attempts to introduce workplace democracy IRL but in Shep Quest, its not something Tony Stark ever showed an interest in, I don't think Revy would try it unless someone pointed it out to her, because she's the sort of tech bro to always look for a technological solution. Do you have an example of when people have forced Revy to pursue a political agenda that would be out of character for her?

Because it kinda just feels like you're mad that you can't argue that ME is a dystopia.
What if in the aftermath of the Reaper War, Humanity balkanises and each Successor State is ruled by Scientist-Kings and their AI with the most powerful having access to (and reverse-engineered) Shepards tech?
Hi I think you're looking for this: Gas Lamp Effect (Girl Genius / Mass Effect Crossover)

Its a feasible spin off quest however I think its reliant on a couple of things, like Revy dying otherwise she'd just out tech all the other successors.
 
On another topic.
Can we do Peak Quarian treatment next turn?
They would probably love being able to move around without their suits on by now.
Probably won't happen for the same reason that they won't settle on a new planet (outside the Citadel being dicks of course).

It would remove the desire to reclaim Rannoch amongst the majority of the Quarian population aboard the Flotilla.
 
Look, you realise we wouldn't be here if we didn't love it, right? That we didn't get 132 pages into the seventh thread by pure spite?
Acknowledging issues and critically reading the text are just the way some people engage with something they like.
And its pretty darn weird to complain to complain about people forcefully changing the setting when the only real change thats happened is the quests premise. Presumably you're okay with mass produced Iron Men and Laser space ships revolutionising the Alliance militaries.

And further more, we can separate personal politics and the quest. I would support attempts to introduce workplace democracy IRL but in Shep Quest, its not something Tony Stark ever showed an interest in, I don't think Revy would try it unless someone pointed it out to her, because she's the sort of tech bro to always look for a technological solution. Do you have an example of when people have forced Revy to pursue a political agenda that would be out of character for her?

Because it kinda just feels like you're mad that you can't argue that ME is a dystopia.
That's not the point I'm trying to make. So far I think everything that Revy has done is fine. And I'm not trying to argue that ME doesn't have it's own unique problems, even if I disagree that it's a true dystopia considering that it doesn't actually seem worse than IRL societies.

It's the whole 'we should absolutely change everything about the setting and act completely differently than we have until now' thing I have issue with.
 
It's the whole 'we should absolutely change everything about the setting and act completely differently than we have until now' thing I have issue with.
Your problem is that we're playing an altruistic protagonist?
That players would rather play a hero than a callous villain or uncaring Ayn Rand expy?
That people participating in a quest are taking advantage of character agency?

No I pointed out exactly what you described:
Do you have an example of when people have forced Revy to pursue a political agenda that would be out of character for her?
Rather than vaguely wave your hands at vibes in the thread, win this little debate right now by giving me an example of where this has happened.
Please.
 
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