Thats a bit meme-y, I like it.
[X] Plan: Speeding Up The Slow Rolling
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
[X] Plan: Speeding Up The Slow Rolling
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
No, you will not lose or gain any Dev Levels until a system has been conquered.
Edit: Changed after to until.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'll remind everyone that the "logistics boosters" that were advocated for turned out not to do enough. We've managed to get into a better position thanks to Templars and figuring out a Math whatnot... that said I'm not entirely opposed in principle to targeting the crews? I'm just worried about basically leaving the Civ Ships and SBGs ANOTHER turn. Because let me be honest, I don't trust people not to keep on finding excuses for pushing them back.
...we found an excuse last turn, even!
...we found an excuse last turn, even!
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
You are already targeting those alongside many more parts due to your Lower/Middle/Upper/Spire Infiltration efforts.
Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
@HeroCooky When we first started the Propaganda Office it said we could extend the duration before the War by 4 turns total with additional actions. And now the counter has been extended by 4 turns. Will more actions still be able to delay more, or is it over now?
Targeting the fleet (which is what the first writein in walliseatscheeses plan is about), which I assume you mean with "targeting the crews", is confirmed By Cooky to push back detection another turn. (If you want, i can get the exact quote, again)
So "not entirely opposed in principle" is a weird stance, us not doing it is super frustrating to me.
Spend 1 AP to get 3 AP (=net 2 AP gain).
I'd rather have 1 action "targeting the crew" for the extra time and the other two doing urgent things (like sgb building), but not worth it to make another plan. If your plan put in the targeting the crew bit you'd have my vote, too.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I mean, I'd rather do it next turn if we're going to do it, because I want progress on the SBGs because I think that people are going to continue to neglect the bread and better stuff we need to do CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY.
Replacing
-[] [Voxx Primus] The Defense Stations are not the only threat we face, but they are definitely one of the major threats, and so we need to concentrate our efforts on thoroughly infiltrating every aspect of the Defense Station. Janitors and duct-workers, coders and guards, all of them matter to the chance to do either significant damage or seize the stations outright, and in either case open the door to the Lamenters' or others.
with
-[] [Voxx Primus Defense Fleet] With the draw down wrapping up, now would be an excellent time to slip in our own people as candidates for replacements for lost crew who were taken with the redirected fleets and start getting our people into a position to get positions within the mobile fleet assets still in system. And who knows, maybe we can learn something about those Cutting Ships with our extended access?
would not delay building the SBGs.
I worry if we do only one of theses two:
-[] Logistical Infantry-Grade Weapons Development (0/2)
(Gain: Cheaper Infantry Weapons.)
-[] Logicstical Infantry-Grade Armor Development (0/2)
(Gain: Cheaper Infantry Armor.)
The other one might not make it into a later plan and we need both to push the voxx counter back a turn.
-[] Logistical Infantry-Grade Weapons Development (0/2)
(Gain: Cheaper Infantry Weapons.)
-[] Logicstical Infantry-Grade Armor Development (0/2)
(Gain: Cheaper Infantry Armor.)
The other one might not make it into a later plan and we need both to push the voxx counter back a turn.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
It is very unlikely that you will be able to extend the 4 Turns even more except for the actions I stated that would do that you have not yet taken.
Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
Oh, nice! The Logistical research are worth doing then. For a price of 3 actions we get an additional turn, net neutral but in exchange we'll get a lot more SAGs to use during the war.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
My perspective is that, basically, if I have to choose one thing to do with the most possible time (that is to say, the earliest) it'd be the Defense Stations, because the mobile forces are Nice To Have, but if we can't get those Defense Stations offline (or under our control) we're kinda fucked.
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The intention was to get the Aries T out to around the same damage potential, but with more survivability since having double the firepower of a Sword Frigate on a Destroyer seems "good enough" for me. The Mines were to give it a little extra something for its arsenal. I was initially going to go with 2x60m Torpedoes for a little extra punch, but then I thought about its role primarily as an escort and I do recall people here making noise about wanting more mine-layers. The Ship Shrines are one of those things that seem innocuous at first, but probably is important in case of Chaos Bullshit and probably to keep morale up.
TBF, Imperial Equivalent Frigates tend to just have 2 Light weapons (Sword/Gladius x2 Light Macrocannon turrets and Firestorm/Nova x1 Light Prow Lance and x1 Light Macrocannon turret) so 2 Medium batteries plus 4x80 Torpedoes makes it pretty darn punchy already. And that 8 DP makes it so those weapons will be incredibly effective. Though if you really are against Enhanced Supply Generation, I'm personally not that attached to it. It could enhance fleet operations but I'm good with replacing it with an Armored Prow or a Cluster Charge Store.
And again, the closest equivalent, the Dauntless Mk. II, has 2 Double Barrel Light Macrocannon Turrets, 2 Light Macrocannon Batteries, and a 4x80 Torpedo Launcher. While it might be able to put out more Dakka, even as is the Scorpio has a way bigger punch than it. While Missile Massacre would undeniably be useful, I would like the Scorpio to be the hammer blow, what follows up after the wall of missiles from the Cruxes and Thules suppress enemy PD, so I wanted to focus more on outright Damage Potential.
Not only that, but it will give our Terraformed worlds an extra decade to cook. The more we delay, the less severe the inevitable housing crisis will be.
Speaking of which, I also think it would be crucial to get our Civ Industry to XV before it get struck down.
Tl;dr: We have at least 5 free actions before Voxx. We can:
1. Put Psytech on our ships, turn the Andromeda into a proper Choir ship.
2. Do a bunch of research
3. Get Civ XV and do a little bit of research
4. Invade the Black Ash Clan as a trial run of Voxx.Yes, I'm serious that this is a viable option. Read the analysis below. Edit: bad idea, but stil fun!
Notably, all of these options will give us permanent buffs, which more actions spent infiltrating Voxx will not. We've infiltrated it. Time to let it cook (+ the megafreighter action, of course). HeroCooky had said it'll be hard to extend the clock any more.
Now, analysis, starting with this lovely timeline:
First, updating the math here to calculate a 'true' number of free actions before Voxx.
1. Finishing SBG #5 is going to give us an extra action somewhere in here! +1 action.
2. So there are 7 'mandatory' actions here, and we have 6*3+1 = 19 actions? 12 free actions? @The Laurent Is this math wrong?
3. Housing is going to eat up a bunch of those actions, but the end is in sight with just 4 more actions if 1 next turn is terraforming (still done before Maphara, replaces 3 habitat actions), then 3 actions of habitats later. Then we potentially don't even need to drop any populace on our own worlds and get the unrest penalty, OR take the ~20ish infastructure hit from leaving 50 billon on Voxx. If more of Voxx survives than we expect we can always build a few more habitats when the time comes.
So we actually have 7 free actions, though we could borrow against the future by delaying the Habitat-building actions for the Voxx war. Things to spend them on:
Songs. We have 2 songs that feel pretty mandatory - grounding & revolution. See here for details.
So running total is 5 actual actions unless I'm forgetting something major. That's enough for one major initiative. Here are my proposals:
1 PSYTECH Andromedas. If we decide to refit anything, then PSYTECH is the path, the correct combat version of the Andromeda is as an amplifier for choirs. 1 action next turn for Orrery, 1-2 actions the turn thereafter to get the follow-up combat psytech capability (I am assuming we unlock it, but that feels like a very reasonable assumption given HeroCooky's discussion of the psytech tree), then 1 action design (which would also let us update the scouts) and 1 action to refit all of our old Andromedas. 4-5 total actions over the next 60 years to get it done before the war. This eats up all of our action slack. But having actual combat psytech for a war against an enemy that we know uses psytech in void combat might be worth it. Otherwise we're going to be horrified by the losses we take against those 'knife' ships. I guarantee it. We would also probably want to push back a habitat action to get a real combat song, either the Nova Explosiva Killinga or the Laser Beam of Magic, to make our Andromedas absolute beasts instead of scaredy-cats.
2. Research. There's also a lot of research we can get done. I don't need to print out the full list, but we've been arguing about it for a while. ground combat stuff, better production to speed up the building, all useful. Hell, we could do another research write-in to try to close in on that magic +0.5 bonus research. I've got an idea for a citizen science initiative that would be fun. Or we could do some melodies to upgrade our research Song. We only need Technology, Progress & Hope, so that's doable with 1 action & the auto-complete next turn.
3. Civ XV. 3 actions. This... would be good. You know how good New Dawn R&D has been. Now imagine us making it better, getting 3 more, and being able to have 2 active a turn. Then we'd have 2 floating actions to use on research.
4. Invade the Black Ash Clan. I know this one is going to sound crazy, but we've done all of this military build-up and don't have anything to do with it for the next 60 years. And we have some SAGs/Warpacks at 4/5 veterancy. And van Zandt shows no inclination to attack us, they're just happy we're not attacking them (hehe). So if we draw down in Ultima Sagritta (But keep whacking their scouts) then they'll probably relax even more. We... we could just attack the Black Ash Clan. They have 1 SBG's worth of strength. We outnumber them 3x, soon to be 4x, and if we hire the Black Cat then we could probably roll over them with one SBG. It's all fucking Dauntless's anyway. We could probably conquer them with two total actions in a decade, one action to hire the Black Cat company (so that the Black Ash Clan doesn't hire them to fight us) and then a second to invade and absolutely flood their planets with SAGs & Knights and conquer them within a decade. You have fancy knights? We have 125 packs of Karnivores with fancy weapons, plus infantry, armor and ortillery support. If things get complicated maybe it'll take 3 total actions across 2 turns, but this means we'll start integrating them earlier and have more build/production capacity come online during the Hellwar with van Zandt. We can also iron out the kinks in our relief fleet by using it to help integrate the Black Ash. Think of it as a trial run before Voxx.
I will admit that Invading he Black Ash clan would be a risk, but I don't think it would be a huge one. Next turn we start a terraforming action and do 2 SBG actions and use a free action to check the price of the Black Cat company to either hit the Black Ash clan in a pincer or just sit out the war. It's probably just abstracted away to one action worth of our production or something to pay them. Then in two turns we spend two actions buying out the Black Cat & invading, giving us 50 years to finish our conquest and get back to Voxx, with veteran units (which are 5x the combat power of nonveteran units) and more land.
I'm not going to argue very hard for the Black Ash invasion unless people are immediately on board. But it's fun, we could do it and I don't think it's a bad idea.
1. Put Psytech on our ships, turn the Andromeda into a proper Choir ship.
2. Do a bunch of research
3. Get Civ XV and do a little bit of research
4. Invade the Black Ash Clan as a trial run of Voxx.
Notably, all of these options will give us permanent buffs, which more actions spent infiltrating Voxx will not. We've infiltrated it. Time to let it cook (+ the megafreighter action, of course). HeroCooky had said it'll be hard to extend the clock any more.
Now, analysis, starting with this lovely timeline:
First, updating the math here to calculate a 'true' number of free actions before Voxx.
1. Finishing SBG #5 is going to give us an extra action somewhere in here! +1 action.
2. So there are 7 'mandatory' actions here, and we have 6*3+1 = 19 actions? 12 free actions? @The Laurent Is this math wrong?
3. Housing is going to eat up a bunch of those actions, but the end is in sight with just 4 more actions if 1 next turn is terraforming (still done before Maphara, replaces 3 habitat actions), then 3 actions of habitats later. Then we potentially don't even need to drop any populace on our own worlds and get the unrest penalty, OR take the ~20ish infastructure hit from leaving 50 billon on Voxx. If more of Voxx survives than we expect we can always build a few more habitats when the time comes.
So we actually have 7 free actions, though we could borrow against the future by delaying the Habitat-building actions for the Voxx war. Things to spend them on:
Songs. We have 2 songs that feel pretty mandatory - grounding & revolution. See here for details.
So running total is 5 actual actions unless I'm forgetting something major. That's enough for one major initiative. Here are my proposals:
1 PSYTECH Andromedas. If we decide to refit anything, then PSYTECH is the path, the correct combat version of the Andromeda is as an amplifier for choirs. 1 action next turn for Orrery, 1-2 actions the turn thereafter to get the follow-up combat psytech capability (I am assuming we unlock it, but that feels like a very reasonable assumption given HeroCooky's discussion of the psytech tree), then 1 action design (which would also let us update the scouts) and 1 action to refit all of our old Andromedas. 4-5 total actions over the next 60 years to get it done before the war. This eats up all of our action slack. But having actual combat psytech for a war against an enemy that we know uses psytech in void combat might be worth it. Otherwise we're going to be horrified by the losses we take against those 'knife' ships. I guarantee it. We would also probably want to push back a habitat action to get a real combat song, either the Nova Explosiva Killinga or the Laser Beam of Magic, to make our Andromedas absolute beasts instead of scaredy-cats.
2. Research. There's also a lot of research we can get done. I don't need to print out the full list, but we've been arguing about it for a while. ground combat stuff, better production to speed up the building, all useful. Hell, we could do another research write-in to try to close in on that magic +0.5 bonus research. I've got an idea for a citizen science initiative that would be fun. Or we could do some melodies to upgrade our research Song. We only need Technology, Progress & Hope, so that's doable with 1 action & the auto-complete next turn.
3. Civ XV. 3 actions. This... would be good. You know how good New Dawn R&D has been. Now imagine us making it better, getting 3 more, and being able to have 2 active a turn. Then we'd have 2 floating actions to use on research.
4. Invade the Black Ash Clan. I know this one is going to sound crazy, but we've done all of this military build-up and don't have anything to do with it for the next 60 years. And we have some SAGs/Warpacks at 4/5 veterancy. And van Zandt shows no inclination to attack us, they're just happy we're not attacking them (hehe). So if we draw down in Ultima Sagritta (But keep whacking their scouts) then they'll probably relax even more. We... we could just attack the Black Ash Clan. They have 1 SBG's worth of strength. We outnumber them 3x, soon to be 4x, and if we hire the Black Cat then we could probably roll over them with one SBG. It's all fucking Dauntless's anyway. We could probably conquer them with two total actions in a decade, one action to hire the Black Cat company (so that the Black Ash Clan doesn't hire them to fight us) and then a second to invade and absolutely flood their planets with SAGs & Knights and conquer them within a decade. You have fancy knights? We have 125 packs of Karnivores with fancy weapons, plus infantry, armor and ortillery support. If things get complicated maybe it'll take 3 total actions across 2 turns, but this means we'll start integrating them earlier and have more build/production capacity come online during the Hellwar with van Zandt. We can also iron out the kinks in our relief fleet by using it to help integrate the Black Ash. Think of it as a trial run before Voxx.
I will admit that Invading he Black Ash clan would be a risk, but I don't think it would be a huge one. Next turn we start a terraforming action and do 2 SBG actions and use a free action to check the price of the Black Cat company to either hit the Black Ash clan in a pincer or just sit out the war. It's probably just abstracted away to one action worth of our production or something to pay them. Then in two turns we spend two actions buying out the Black Cat & invading, giving us 50 years to finish our conquest and get back to Voxx, with veteran units (which are 5x the combat power of nonveteran units) and more land.
I'm not going to argue very hard for the Black Ash invasion unless people are immediately on board. But it's fun, we could do it and I don't think it's a bad idea.
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Actually, I think an even better idea would be to ally with them against the Croaf Hegemony. While the Black Ash Clan isn't great due to the misandry and mutant purges, by the standards of Imperial Splinter States they're alright. Meanwhile the Croafs are from what we can gather, a bunch of elitist assholes who the Black Ash Clan is already planning on fighting with the help of the Black Cat Company. We can go introduce ourselves and promise military aid in exchange for free trade or something so we can go kick in some assholes' teeth in while making ourselves a new friend with the Knight Ladies.
- Pronouns
- Zack
we should also try to contact the Free Cities and Five Sisters
We have already started that infiltration, this turns action is just doubling down.
I'd get starting that critical piece before the time extender.
But doubling down? We can afford to wait a turn to make sure we actually do the confirmed "gain a turn" thing.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
- Location
- colombia
Are you sure? Absolutely sure? Positively, even?
What a polite way to say
"Dont do it you dumbass"
Kudos
Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
People forget quickly how disastrous it was, the last time we decided to open a new front while already hostile to a peer enemy. We got an entire fleet wrecked.
Are you sure? Absolutely sure? Positively, even?
Haha it's an extreme example of what we could do. I'm trying to shock the thread out of looping arguments on infiltrating (which we're done with) and get people thinking creatively about other options.
Are you sure? Absolutely sure? Positively, even?
Psytech seems downright mundane next to invading a whole-ass polity, doesn't it?
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Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
Is there any point? They're tiny. We can just roll them over with our fleet, then send the Temple ship to convert them into good Glimmerlings. Wololo.
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