[X] Form I - Shii-Cho
Gotta have the basics down first imo.
Gotta have the basics down first imo.
Shadowhisker
Asylum Escapee
- Location
- Dawn of Fold Refugee Camp
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Form I - Shii-Cho
[X] Form V - Djem So
[X] Form V - Djem So
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DoSomething
Trash in trash can
[X] Form I - Shii-Cho
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Form VI - Niman
Well, if you don't think my post describes accurately your position, then I'm confused why you're replying as if I was referring to you specifically? It's not like I quoted you or anything.
The argument that Form I would act as a supercharger for another later Form we pick was definitely being made in the thread, and I think it's incorrect, for the reasons I've outlined. If that's not your argument, then we have do disagreement; as I said in the post you're quoting, there's certainly a reasonable case to be made for Form I.
I've championed taking strategically-placed Red options to avoid taking the path of least resistance in the past, but I think that's different from thinking we need to doubt every natural inclination. The lightsaber Form we pick will be important to Anakin, but I simply don't see it defining his character in the same way as important moral choices, who he is friends with, etc.. We can afford to pick Form V if we think it fits him better, just as we can afford to pick any of the other Forms if we have a strong reason for them.
The one exception here where our lightsaber form could have really significant effects on drawing Anakin to the Dark Side might be Juyo, which possibly could go badly wrong if it goes wrong. I think there is also a chance it really helps Anakin if it goes right; it's the high risk/high reward option.
It's unclear when exactly we'll get the chance to pick a second Form, but if we look at when Obi-Wan swapped from Ataru to Soresu, it was after the fight with Maul. Evolving fighting styles is definitely common to all Jedi, but it's normally the result of some important experience or a changed outlook. Extrapolating, I think it's a reasonable supposition to expect that we might get a chance to branch out into another Form (or go deeper into our current one) after our fight with Dooku. That would put Anakin at roughly the same age as Obi-Wan when he started practicing Soresu, and at roughly the same juncture in his career as a Jedi. It's probably worth checking with @Kirook honestly.
Form I does shore up our fundamentals, but Form V also explicitly is so natural and easy for Anakin that we can essentially double up on training actions for the same action cost. It seems reasonable to me that essentially doubling our training will either provide a similar benefit to ironing out our fundamentals or achieve effectively the same thing. Plus there's the stress reduction. Regarding that: Lightsaber training seems to be a meditative practice for basically all Jedi, so I'm not sure I buy the idea that Form V being a stress reducer for Anakin poses a risk? I think it's just because he jives with it the most.
All that being said, I want to reiterate that I think Form I, or any of the other Forms for that matter is a reasonable option. This isn't life or death, and I think perhaps too much weight is being put on these sorts of cost-benefit analyses.
Probably the most important aspect of this vote is simply about shaping how we want our Anakin's fighting style to look.
- Location
- Sweden, Europe, Earth, Sol
You make some excellent points, and I would have picked Form VI - Niman, for the growth aspect and sheer potential, if I didn't believe that Anakin picking up the meditative aspects of lightsaber practice early on would be a great enough benefit to outweigh the potential risk.
The one thing that smarts is that Niman would require early dedication to reap the most benefits.
…
Hmm, you know what?
[X] Form VI - Niman
[X] Form V - Djem So
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Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
I'm not saying its necessarily a risk, but its explicit that learning the lightsaber forms also teaches philosophical lessons. Which should make us pause and question if we really want Anakin to stick to Djem-So so early on and only learn its lessons. Which are to go fast and be proactive and be direct to punch through problems, Anakin's natural inclinations.
Added to that, it being a stress reducer can potentially lead to the Pavlovian conditioning of "Swing my Lightsaber really hard and fast is really meditative and makes me feel less stress" to be imprinted into Anakin in a young age. I'm not making any moral judgements here, neurological conditioning like this doesn't care for morals. I am pointing out that is a thing.
I don't believe anyone has any issues with making Knight Skywalker a Master of Djem-So. It's his natural talent, but there's no harm in making Padawan Anakin learn the lessons of some other form first, and then switch.
This also flows into the fact that the fighting style is not the sole nor necessarily the most important factor of this vote. Or else, the QM would not have made a point to talk about the philosophical aspects of each forms. Like all things in this quest, the culture of the Jedi and the Meditative/contemplative aspect of lightsabers is cleary very important.
So it's worth considering what Lessons would be imparted on Anakin.
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Honestly I feel like that at this point any form other then Djem So, would be too much effort for too little reward, when compared to it, except for perhaps Niman and Juyo.
I decided to include my opinions on the forms:
1.) Shii-Cho. I feel like if Anakin wasn´t reasonably good at basics, we wouldn´t be given the option to pick a lightsaber form. I feel like further improving the basics, will give us less benefit the specializing, especially since it´s probably just pushing the decision further down the line. My fith pick.
2.) Makshi. Not a bad form, but we have enough stress as it is. Also, I think it might however be too overspecialized on duels, since most of combat in the Clone Wars will be against enemies with blaster. My sixth pick, it would be fourth or fifth if we didn´t already have enough stress.
3.) Soresu. Not a big fan of fighting styles that rely purely on defense, I feel like they are too passive. I prefer something that allows counterattacks. Also stress. Least preferred option, I just like combat styles that are proactive.
4.) Attaru. I like this one. Good balance of defense and offense. My only issue is that most of what it achieves can be achieved by form IV and vice vers, even if it does so in a different manner, relaying on rapid movement instead of physical force (I would also guess that it´s less dueling oriented then Djem So). Disfavored, only because Anakin does not have the same aptitude for it as Djem So. My fourth pick.
5.) Djem So. As I said I feel like other form don´t justify the effort when compared to it. Also reducing stress is always plus. Especially since it is a very versatile form, that allows for attack and defense. Also the possibility of expanding into Shien for better combat against blaster wielding opponents. My preferred option.
6.) Niman. It´s heavy reliance on force powers might play well into Anakin´s large talent in that field, but would probably still require larger investment then Djem So to match Anakin´s cannon combat abilities. Still it is my second pick.
7.) Juyo. I like it´s comparison to open revolt and it´s something I would like to explore, once we get the opportunity to do so. Plus Anakin might also have good aptitude for it, considering that he seems to like the idea of it. Also I like "the fucking we ball!" aspect of picking this. My third pick if it was available.
I decided to include my opinions on the forms:
1.) Shii-Cho. I feel like if Anakin wasn´t reasonably good at basics, we wouldn´t be given the option to pick a lightsaber form. I feel like further improving the basics, will give us less benefit the specializing, especially since it´s probably just pushing the decision further down the line. My fith pick.
2.) Makshi. Not a bad form, but we have enough stress as it is. Also, I think it might however be too overspecialized on duels, since most of combat in the Clone Wars will be against enemies with blaster. My sixth pick, it would be fourth or fifth if we didn´t already have enough stress.
3.) Soresu. Not a big fan of fighting styles that rely purely on defense, I feel like they are too passive. I prefer something that allows counterattacks. Also stress. Least preferred option, I just like combat styles that are proactive.
4.) Attaru. I like this one. Good balance of defense and offense. My only issue is that most of what it achieves can be achieved by form IV and vice vers, even if it does so in a different manner, relaying on rapid movement instead of physical force (I would also guess that it´s less dueling oriented then Djem So). Disfavored, only because Anakin does not have the same aptitude for it as Djem So. My fourth pick.
5.) Djem So. As I said I feel like other form don´t justify the effort when compared to it. Also reducing stress is always plus. Especially since it is a very versatile form, that allows for attack and defense. Also the possibility of expanding into Shien for better combat against blaster wielding opponents. My preferred option.
6.) Niman. It´s heavy reliance on force powers might play well into Anakin´s large talent in that field, but would probably still require larger investment then Djem So to match Anakin´s cannon combat abilities. Still it is my second pick.
7.) Juyo. I like it´s comparison to open revolt and it´s something I would like to explore, once we get the opportunity to do so. Plus Anakin might also have good aptitude for it, considering that he seems to like the idea of it. Also I like "the fucking we ball!" aspect of picking this. My third pick if it was available.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Form V - Djem So
The fierce radiance of twin suns and dragon eyes.
Mastering this form fast we can then pick onother that will help awaking later as this is just his initial form
Juyo is probably the form that would vibe the most with anakin as he is supposed to bring balance to the force and being able to have a connection to the "dark" side but not fall to it is anakins probable future form and the one who would make the most sense.
The fierce radiance of twin suns and dragon eyes.
Mastering this form fast we can then pick onother that will help awaking later as this is just his initial form
Juyo is probably the form that would vibe the most with anakin as he is supposed to bring balance to the force and being able to have a connection to the "dark" side but not fall to it is anakins probable future form and the one who would make the most sense.
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Zimmerwald1915
Revolutionary Defeatist
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Having meditated on this, I realize I've talked myself into approval-voting Form V in addition to I. Gitting just as gud at a form in less time lets us devote more time to fulfilling our promises to the Kaleesh within their deadline.
[X] Form I - Shii-Cho
[X] Form V - Djem So
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- Location
- Who knows?
[X] Form V - Djem So
I think Anakin is really going to need some semi consistent form of stress relief that isn't blowing up at people real soon.
I think Anakin is really going to need some semi consistent form of stress relief that isn't blowing up at people real soon.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Changing my vote:
[X] Form VI - Niman
[X] Form VI - Niman
Barondoctor
The things I chase come to me.
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X] Form V - Djem So
My argument for this is twofold:
1) We aren't going to take lightsaber stuff much, so let's get mileage when we do.
2) We aren't taking destress stuff much, so let's make those choices make us stronger.
My argument for this is twofold:
1) We aren't going to take lightsaber stuff much, so let's get mileage when we do.
2) We aren't taking destress stuff much, so let's make those choices make us stronger.
So at the risk of this discussion getting repetitive, I think a lot of your points here are valid, even the ones I personally don't entirely agree with. You make a good point that the forms also reflect personal philosophies, that was partly why I was thinking it might take a significant story beat like a to trigger learning a new Form, because it's part of character development. I was sort of mentally lumping this in with "fighting style" because I see it as an aesthetic choice, but that was not terribly clear of me.
The only thing I'm not really sure about here is the Pavlovian conditioning thing. Like I understand your logic, it just seems like a bit of a reach to me? Lots of Jedi seem to enjoy lightsaber training as a stress reliever, and addiction to combat is never brought up as a risk in any Star Wars media I know of unless it's combined with actively channelling the Dark Side in some form? If you mean it not as that strong of a thing, then sure, it definitely increases the chances Anakin might choose sparring as a stress reliever more than games of Sabbac, but like... it's hard to see where that will be crucial?
There's also a difference between training/sparring and actual live combat with injury. Like in university I did Filipino martial arts (Kali-JKD to be specific) and loved it, and I really miss doing it now, but I don't think it's necessarily made me more inclined to want to see out fights on the streets? Now on the other hand, your point about Form V essentially being the direct, "cut the Gordian Knot" kind of style, and that effecting our approach to dangerous situations, that's entirely valid.
My view is that it's all about how we use and direct it. It's possible I think to be a kind of a "battering ram" in our approach to combat, but also judicious about how we use it. Understand that violence is chaotic and dangerous, be slow to use it, but strike with utterly decisive force when we do. That might come by training in Form V for a long time and learning those lessons the hard way, or by starting with Form I to really develop our control and then letting our natural talent for Form V flourish in the Clone Wars as you suggest.
They're both valid I think, the difference is probably what choices they present in the short term?
- Location
- California
[X] Form V - Djem So
Changed vote
Changed vote
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
I mean at this point that's just a description of Lightside Vader.
I'm not addressing your other points because as you said, repetitive, Valid Points and all that.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Form V - Djem So
