- Location
- Austria
We still will get natives and eventually nazgul(s) to the face, but yeah, at least Kings Men purges and pogroms are unlikely to reach us.
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Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
It's probably the second closest to Khazad-dûm, as well. Building relationships with the Dwarves will not be as easy as if we were at Issen, but it will be far from impossible. Espcially if we put some effort towards it.
A navigable route up the Gwaltho, for example, would actually take us most of the way into Eregion, where we would be effectively on their doorstep. It also brings us close to Rivendell, a treasure trove of lost lore and crafts of the Noldor.
Lond Daer is also pretty much a wasteland in the Third Age, but there's actually a huge expanse of moorland that could host countless sheep and farms. If we can subborn or befriend the local men, which will admittedly be the project of multiple lifetimes, then the surroundings might become quite a populous and wealthy kingdom.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Good enough arguments.
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Enedwaith
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
[X] Plan Missionaries
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Enedwaith
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
[X] Plan Missionaries
- Location
- United Kingdom
I have to say that I don't at all buy the idea that we need to make this decision to avoid something that will happen hundreds of years in the future. Especially given how easily canon timelines get thrown out the window in Telamon quests.
- Location
- Space
I mean if we end as powerful armory/ colony with ties to Shaper guild, guild that is somewhat supportive of Faithfull and interacting with other species if for nothing but for knowledge exchange, we could maybe ally ourselves with Faithfull and gather enough power to overthrow the king, maybe use our ties to the Elves and Dwarfs to help us.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Besides, this is still like 5 centuries before Sauron even gets his ass dragged back to Numenor, nevermind the island's destruction.
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
By the latter days of Númenor, the Faithful were just being pulled out of their homes and tortured to death, or openly burned alive by Sauron as sacrifices to Melkor. It's implied things were a little less crazy in some of the colonies, but only a little bit, and only in some of them.
People should know just how bad it's going to get. It's comparable to the Reformation in terms of the combination of religious, cultural and political strife, except if towards the end the Pope was literally a fallen angel.
We can absolutely get more involved in Númenorean politics to try and butterfly it away, but this does unavoidably necessitate getting involved in Númenorean politics, which is something a ton of voters have strongly indicated they do not want to do. Which is why I made the cautionary note I did. There are no wrong answers here, just choices.
Looking at a broader picture, the Fall of Númenor is very much a pre-ordained, Second Fall From Eden kind of story. There are some immensely strong structural forces pushing for the moral decline here, and the grace offered to Númenor by the Valar was always a temporary one in the grander scheme of things. We can absolutely try to fight that decline, and it will be the kind of noble yet doomed struggle against the encroaching darkness that Tolkien loved to write about.
We may very well be able to push back the Fall by a few centuries, and perhaps save a little more from it, but the Quest will have to become about that. It's a huge game for all the marbles.
- Location
- Austria
Numenor started decline long before that.
Otherwise Sauron's thing with mass sacrifice of Faithful in his name would have fallen on deaf ears. Seeing as Kings Men kind of didn't mind, well...
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- He/Him
Yeah, but the Royal Forge Plan was built on the idea of enduring Numenor's fall.
- Location
- Austria
I mean, without sufficient decoupling we cannot really avoid being dragged with - or rather, it will demand loads of work to not degrade with metropoly. Cultural exchange, Kings Goons...
Like, there's a central question here you need to ask yourselves if you want to try and avert the Fall.
Do you think you can outsmart Sauron?
Because that's what we need to do, if we want to stop him from eventually corrupting and destroying Númenor. He will always be looking for a way in.
Also?
Sauron is immortal, and untiring. He hates the children of Westernesse with a passion that actually considerably eclipses his hatred for the Noldor. Right now, and for as long as Númenor remains a threat to him, he will be scheming for its downfall. He is effectively indestructible for as long as this Age of the world endures.
This means that to thwart him, we don't have to outsmart him once.
We have to outsmart him forever.
Do you think you can outsmart Sauron?
Because that's what we need to do, if we want to stop him from eventually corrupting and destroying Númenor. He will always be looking for a way in.
Also?
Sauron is immortal, and untiring. He hates the children of Westernesse with a passion that actually considerably eclipses his hatred for the Noldor. Right now, and for as long as Númenor remains a threat to him, he will be scheming for its downfall. He is effectively indestructible for as long as this Age of the world endures.
This means that to thwart him, we don't have to outsmart him once.
We have to outsmart him forever.
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- Space
It's good that Kings men aren't only faction isn't it then?
Our goal for either survival, or preventing Numenor fall should be to bring as much people that oppose Kings policy as possible and Shapers probably can be convinced to cooperate while faithful will run anyway, maybe we can offer the sanctuary?
Accepting faithful population (while it's still possible ), have colony interact with elves and dwarfs (who are ironically close to us), there is the fact that Kings Goons won't just go and kill of their entire armory, because they need it and we can turn that armory against them as well if needed.
And you think that we can hide ourselves from him just because we are uninvolved in Númenor politics? As long as we are successful in any way we will draw his gaze.
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Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Though I'd most prefer to read/participate in a story of fighting the King's influence in harad (and perhaps turning that into a bastion of the Edain in the third age), I'll approval vote for
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Enedwaith
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
[X] Plan Missionaries
I agree that planning for the Last Alliance is deeply premature.
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Enedwaith
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
[X] Plan Missionaries
I agree that planning for the Last Alliance is deeply premature.
Absolutely.
The question is how much, and how soon. If we are a major fortress port and centre of craft, we are likely to be right in the middle of politics just as a fact of our existence and importance. If we are a more obscure haven of lore located near the Elvish realms, then we are likely to escape notice for much longer. It's worth noting that even Ar-Pharazon at his craziest never attacked Lindon.
To be clear here, none of these choices are wrong. We can absolutely try and turn the canon persecution of the Faithful into a Númenorean civil war, if we want to. That could be cool!
The issue that a large chunk of the voters here seemed to want to save as much of the best of the lore and skills of Westernesse from the Fall, and safeguard them into the Third Age, as unscathed as possible by the growing persecution of the Faithful. That's likely to be quite difficult, needing quite a specific combination of chances to have good chances, and I think that other plans (particularly Save Old Lore) are likely to be better suited.
If there wasn't that disconnect, I wouldn't have kept harping on about this.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
I would argue it actually already did happen in canon. The penultimate king of Numenor was Tar-Palantir and, has indicated by his name, he revealed himself to be a faithfull upon his ascension to the throne. The King's Men under his brother essentially spent his reign creating trouble and, while we don't have a ton of details, it seem the faithfull actually won, as he died very much in power.
At the end of the day, however, it didn't change things in the long run and the King's Men where simply too powerfull at that point to be held away for long. As soon as Tar-Palantir was dead his nephew, Ar-Pharazon, usurped the throne from his daughter and forced her to marry him. We all know how things went after that...
Granted, had the Faithfull be able to reassert themselves before that they could have had a better shot at making it stick, if only because the King's Men presumably hadn't grow as dominant as they would eventually become among the general population, but the further back we go the closer to the begining of the quest we get...
That's essentially where the catch 22 come from when it come to save Numenor here: realistically it would take us some time to grow powerfull enough to make such a massive difference but the closer to the canonical downfall we get without things taking a drastically different direction the further set in stone fate gets.
- Location
- Denmark
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Enedwaith
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
[X] Plan Missionaries
[X] Plan The Sorceress of Get The Fuck Out And Save Old Lore
[X] Plan Missionaries
- Location
- Yes
[X] Plan Royal Forge For the Last Alliance
Kufufu
Adequate at best
- Location
- What's it to ya?
[x]Plan Last light of Numenor:
-[X] The Isen: There is a mighty river in the central part of Middle-Earth, known as the Isen for it's iron color, which runs through all the lands of Enedwaith. A wild, unforested, and untamed land is Enedwaith, and the men who share that land's name, the Enedwaithrim, are a wild and mighty sort. To the far north of Enedwaith is the land called Eregion, or the Hollin, where once in elder days dwelt the Elf-smith Celebrimbor, who forged the Rings of Power. Eregion is long destroyed by Sauron, but something of the Elves may remain there. To your east lie the Misty Mountains, and the mighty dwarven realm of Khazad-Dum, which has isolated itself from all the world. If one could make friends with the Longbeard Dwarves and their famed mines, then they might become wealthiest of all the colonies of Numenor. You sail up the Isen and establish a colony at it's mouth.
-[X] The Guild of Shapers: The largest of all the guilds save for the Venturers, the Guild of Shapers arms the hosts of Númenór, designs the high towers and sloped domes of her cities, and has made many fair and mighty works in the centuries since your people landed on the Blessed Isle. In recent years, their influence and power has grown enough that they now seek to establish colonies on the mainland and exert their influence on the world. Like all the guilds, they are supposedly apolitical, and are not ill-disposed to alliances with elves or dwarves should it help them better their craft. They seek ever and always new sources of metal for their crafts, and old knowledge of crafting long lost to the world. Having sponsored no colonies before, the Guild has thrown all of it's considerable resources behind your new venture, but has deeply angered the Guild of Venturers, who view this intrusion into their dominion in an ill light. With few colonists and few ships, your main resource will be the wealth of your sponsors in the Guild and their knowledge of crafting.
-[X] Imrazôr (great-flame, Adunaic)
-[X] The Shaper: You were one of the Sea-Shapers, the artificers and smiths who sail with every fleet and expedition to maintain their weapons and service their ships. Your works, like the works of all Shapers, are a blending of the magic of the elves and the technological might of men -- ships that sail without sail, lights that glow without a flame, and bows which fire arrows for leagues unerring. Your long experience maintaining the technological marvels of Numenor should serve you well in your new colony.
-[X] Sapthân, the Wise: You are a Loremaster, learned in the ancient arts of the world, in the history of the elves and men, and in the old words that could shape stone and bend sea. Lesser-minded men might call you a wizard.
-[X] Izindu-bêth, the Farseeing: You were born with the rare gift of Sight, the ability to see glimpses of the shifting future in dreams. This ability is revered among the Middle Men, and respected in Númenór.
-[X] The Isen: There is a mighty river in the central part of Middle-Earth, known as the Isen for it's iron color, which runs through all the lands of Enedwaith. A wild, unforested, and untamed land is Enedwaith, and the men who share that land's name, the Enedwaithrim, are a wild and mighty sort. To the far north of Enedwaith is the land called Eregion, or the Hollin, where once in elder days dwelt the Elf-smith Celebrimbor, who forged the Rings of Power. Eregion is long destroyed by Sauron, but something of the Elves may remain there. To your east lie the Misty Mountains, and the mighty dwarven realm of Khazad-Dum, which has isolated itself from all the world. If one could make friends with the Longbeard Dwarves and their famed mines, then they might become wealthiest of all the colonies of Numenor. You sail up the Isen and establish a colony at it's mouth.
-[X] The Guild of Shapers: The largest of all the guilds save for the Venturers, the Guild of Shapers arms the hosts of Númenór, designs the high towers and sloped domes of her cities, and has made many fair and mighty works in the centuries since your people landed on the Blessed Isle. In recent years, their influence and power has grown enough that they now seek to establish colonies on the mainland and exert their influence on the world. Like all the guilds, they are supposedly apolitical, and are not ill-disposed to alliances with elves or dwarves should it help them better their craft. They seek ever and always new sources of metal for their crafts, and old knowledge of crafting long lost to the world. Having sponsored no colonies before, the Guild has thrown all of it's considerable resources behind your new venture, but has deeply angered the Guild of Venturers, who view this intrusion into their dominion in an ill light. With few colonists and few ships, your main resource will be the wealth of your sponsors in the Guild and their knowledge of crafting.
-[X] Imrazôr (great-flame, Adunaic)
-[X] The Shaper: You were one of the Sea-Shapers, the artificers and smiths who sail with every fleet and expedition to maintain their weapons and service their ships. Your works, like the works of all Shapers, are a blending of the magic of the elves and the technological might of men -- ships that sail without sail, lights that glow without a flame, and bows which fire arrows for leagues unerring. Your long experience maintaining the technological marvels of Numenor should serve you well in your new colony.
-[X] Sapthân, the Wise: You are a Loremaster, learned in the ancient arts of the world, in the history of the elves and men, and in the old words that could shape stone and bend sea. Lesser-minded men might call you a wizard.
-[X] Izindu-bêth, the Farseeing: You were born with the rare gift of Sight, the ability to see glimpses of the shifting future in dreams. This ability is revered among the Middle Men, and respected in Númenór.
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is great! With the help of ancient lore and modern might we surely can find a path to immortality... wait, it seems that there is some kind of catch here...
Oh. This is Arda.
[X] Plan Royal Forge For the Last Alliance
I understand that this breaks Tolkien's spirit, but I want to see the industrialization of Middle-Earth.
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