Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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Prime 2.0 said:
@Neablis

Hum. It's not a lot of shielding, but I do wonder if it ought to have had some impact since psyker safety and aurora benefits were the thought behind it at the time.
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Got it. Added to the most recent update.

Haganeko said:
@Neablis would shifting them to "respect the sovereignty of the locals to a reasonable (diplomacy with legitimate leaders, referendum) degree in absorbing, and guarantee them equal representation if they join" be a minor or major shift?
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Minor. That's probably their preferred option, but it's going to run up hard into the practical realities of 40k. I'm specifically thinking of the complexity involved in actually deciding what "respecting the sovereignty of the locals" means in the context of ex-imperial worlds with fanatical nuns ready to orbital-drop anybody who expresses a desire to maybe stop worshiping big E (and also showing complete obedience to the local Ecclesiarchy), or tribal feral-world societies ruled by brutal warlords... or whatever they'll find out in the broader sector.

If you intervene, they'll probably bend further over backwards to secure local assent peaceably instead of being somewhat more proactive in getting the consent of the populace. Exactly what that looks like depends on rolls and other factors, but it's not unlikely that as they are now they'll talk to the Sororitas, decide they're unreasonable and nuke them, then talk to the Eccliasarchy, decide they're unreasonable and send in the bots to liberate the populace of Ascalon by force from what they see as despotic ruler. Not surprising given their own history.

That's not guaranteed to happen that way, there's various other ways it could go! You don't know, and at this point neither do they. These aren't easy problems, and you set them up to be reasonable, but sometimes there are no reasonable solutions.

Auks said:
Setting that aside for a moment, a quick question @Neablis : Can we combine these two options:
-[][Expansion] As they were intending
Next turn the Stellar Ascendency sends missions to Ascalon, Myrris, Veytharis and Kethraxis, scouting them out and potentially establishing a presence in each system.
-[][Expansion] To Calderath and Vorthryn, with Cogitare bases
They expand through Ascalon towards Calderath and Vorthryn, and take possession of your bases there. +3 boons to represent how much easier having a toehold will make it to assimilate those systems.

Because there's some appeal to scouting the neighboring systems and checking on the outposts at the same time, but I'm not sure Denva actually has the ships to do all of that at the same time.
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They do not have the ships/effort for that. Or rather, if they do that then all they'll get done is scouting, without even starting to set up bases.
 
Haganeko said:
Good thoughts. I think you're undervaluing Admat, though. I also don't think we have a need of MS heavy cruisers as of yet. We're not going to be fielding them in numbers any time soon, and Denva has a need of the MS collab tech to field them even with MS, IIRC.
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I actually really want to do Advanced materials, but I feel that setting up ground work for larger warships is somewhat important. Machine spirits that can handle larger structures would benefit the ascendancy with their vastly larger BP pool than what we have right now, and in time we will want heavy Cruisers and ships of that size or larger to have that capability. But yes right now it mainly benefits our chief and primary ally.

Honestly, once we get all of the Aurora Navigator genetic techs researched and out of the way this next turn, the turn after that would be the perfect time to go full Ham on Advanced Materials and a bunch of our special projects that we have stocked up.

It's just right now making sure our little bean is optimally developing, not just in a medical way but into a decent human being as well, is such a large priority that really we can only let go of that once she hits adulthood. It isn't that true of all parents, right? You put aside your priorities in exchange for theirs until they're ready to start doing their own thing and you can move a bit on your own again.
 
Bolo said:
No plans with the Vellkar? Would like to eventually get them to an equal footing with everyone else plus have an Alien crew member eventually.
Building some colonies and maybe some cheap ships would go alone Way. Maybe even get them out of the system.
Agree with the Warp tech research but keep in mind the faster and better we get our allies Researching the more tech we can offload on them.
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I do think Vita taking a few colony ships full of them with her would be a good idea, but since Vita will only leave in 10 years its maybe something to implement in the turn before leaving.

Haganeko said:
I don't understand putting Anexa on research and helping raise Aurora at the same time. Would that not be counterproductive?
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Aurora shouldn't feel like she is just a research project to Anexa, some personal interaction outside of the context of researching the third eye would help.

Neablis said:
You're not entirely sure. They'll probably do whatever is easiest and gets them their goal (A built-up system that provides strategic depth and is a solid trading partner) fastest. That could look like a few different things depending on the locals - they're much more likely to just set up their space-based thing in Ascalon while undertaking normal negotiations with the locals, but the natives in Caldereth and Vorthryn are probably more amenable to some kind of arrangement/may just request assimilation to get access to the higher quality of life that the Stellar Ascendancy can promise.
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As long as they are listening to the locals and going into negotiations with an open mind instead of insisting on the locals joining up it seems fine.

Haganeko said:
I see. I was going from Neablis having stated that Gwen and Cia would have reduced effectiveness from helping last time.
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Cia is unlikely to level up anyway until Vita puts some more research into understanding Pyromancy and related topics, so Cia being slightly less effective in leveling up doesn't change much, but her being available to help Aurora when the third eye opens could be very useful.
 
Haganeko said:
Art, administration, service work, "soft" sciences... lots of things! Plus, their psychosocial needs may differ from current humans.
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Also literature, poetry, film, and theater (although I guess those would fall under art as well), oh individual craft work, and technical repair/maintenance work got to keep those machines/systems running after all.
 
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How do people feel about the physics sharing boom? It'll pay dividends later and getting improved gravity weapons is pretty neat.
 
Neablis said:
Exactly what that looks like depends on rolls and other factors, but it's not unlikely that as they are now they'll talk to the Sororitas, decide they're unreasonable and nuke them, then talk to the Eccliasarchy, decide they're unreasonable and send in the bots to liberate the populace of Ascalon by force from what they see as despotic ruler. Not surprising given their own history.
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Could we assign a Victan/Vita Diplo action to give their diplomatic corps a primer in subverting Imperial power structures or something like that as a way of ensuring that their approach to that kind of thing is less... blunt, for lack of a better word?
 
Auks said:
Daemons are kind of the primary threat from the Warp, and the Warpaphone works by broadcasting signals into the Warp.
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Not necessarily. I was under the impression that passive corruption was a thing. Though maube not since the thing doesn't have a soul?
...wait
@Neablis can we put machine spirits in the phone? Do we know?
That would provide some chaos resistance.
Neablis said:
Minor. That's probably their preferred option, but it's going to run up hard into the practical realities of 40k. I'm specifically thinking of the complexity involved in actually deciding what "respecting the sovereignty of the locals" means in the context of ex-imperial worlds with fanatical nuns ready to orbital-drop anybody who expresses a desire to maybe stop worshiping big E (and also showing complete obedience to the local Ecclesiarchy), or tribal feral-world societies ruled by brutal warlords... or whatever they'll find out in the broader sector.

If you intervene, they'll probably bend further over backwards to secure local assent peaceably instead of being somewhat more proactive in getting the consent of the populace. Exactly what that looks like depends on rolls and other factors, but it's not unlikely that as they are now they'll talk to the Sororitas, decide they're unreasonable and nuke them, then talk to the Eccliasarchy, decide they're unreasonable and send in the bots to liberate the populace of Ascalon by force from what they see as despotic ruler. Not surprising given their own history.

That's not guaranteed to happen that way, there's various other ways it could go! You don't know, and at this point neither do they. These aren't easy problems, and you set them up to be reasonable, but sometimes there are no reasonable solutions.
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Oh, nice. I guess I owe @Prime 2.0 an apology or 20 for wasting his time—he's been mostly right all along.

Still think we ought to do that conversation with them, but this is basically what he's been trying to tell me this whole time. *hangs head in shame*
avatar11792 said:
I actually really want to do Advanced materials, but I feel that setting up ground work for larger warships is somewhat important. Machine spirits that can handle larger structures would benefit the ascendancy with their vastly larger BP pool than what we have right now, and in time we will want heavy Cruisers and ships of that size or larger to have that capability. But yes right now it mainly benefits our chief and primary ally.
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I think if the Ascendancy really wants that, they'll get it. It's not that expensive. We have, as you said, a lot of priorities to work through.
seonor said:
Cia is unlikely to level up anyway until Vita puts some more research into understanding Pyromancy and related topics, so Cia being slightly less effective in leveling up doesn't change much, but her being available to help Aurora when the third eye opens could be very useful.
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I mentioned that in the context of Anexa helping—i.e. won't that make her work at research suffer?
Sara said:
How do people feel about the physics sharing boom? It'll pay dividends later and getting improved gravity weapons is pretty neat.
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I really like it! I think we should do it.
 
Haganeko said:
Oh, nice. I guess I owe @Prime 2.0 an apology or 20 for wasting his time—he's been mostly right all along.

Still think we ought to do that conversation with them, but this is basically what he's been trying to tell me this whole time. *hangs head in shame*
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...Just like that? No bad feelings, no grudge, no animosity? No more fear, no more hours of struggle? Just... letting go, of all that sunk time, of all the arguments, of the need to be right?

...

I see.

There really isn't a need to fight, is there?










We've come so far.​






Sara said:
How do people feel about the physics sharing boom? It'll pay dividends later and getting improved gravity weapons is pretty neat.
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Nevermind, enlightenment is for suckers. GRAVITY WEAPONS! GRAVITY WEAPONS! GRAVITY WEAPONS! GRAVITY WEAPONS! GRAVITY WEAPONS! GRAVITY WEAPONS!
 
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Haganeko said:
Not necessarily. I was under the impression that passive corruption was a thing. Though maube not since the thing doesn't have a soul?
...wait
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The corruption typically comes from daemons, I think. Admittedly, there are some weird Warp monsters that aren't connected directly to the Four, like that Warp Wasp thing that infested Prospero, but those are rare, and I think even those should be vulnerable to at least banishment, even if they might not be bindable.

And yeah, definitely in favor of grabbing Improved Gravity Weapons via boon. I'm not sure how much an improvement we should expect in shipboard weapons, but even if all it does is give us longer range Nova Cannons and make Grav Weapons cheaper to apply to bots and fighters, it'd be worth it.
 
Auks said:
The corruption typically comes from daemons, I think. Admittedly, there are some weird Warp monsters that aren't connected directly to the Four, like that Warp Wasp thing that infested Prospero, but those are rare, and I think even those should be vulnerable to at least banishment, even if they might not be bindable.

And yeah, definitely in favor of grabbing Improved Gravity Weapons via boon. I'm not sure how much an improvement we should expect in shipboard weapons, but even if all it does is give us longer range Nova Cannons and make Grav Weapons cheaper to apply to bots and fighters, it'd be worth it.
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Improved Gravity Weapons also increases gravity weapons range as well as reducing their cost. Well worth it IMO. It would allow us to outfit gravity weapons on a lot more units of different types.

MrRobot said:
Better yet Gravity weapons alliw making Sniper nova canons. THE ORKS WILL LOVE IT, EVEN WHEN WE BLOW THEM UP.
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Nah, even better then that.

Antimatter. Sniper. Nova Cannon rounds!
 
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It would cost 3000 ground bp to build a sufficient colony for the Vellkar to get started, in addition to transporting 50,000 of them across the stars to their new home.
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if we do the velkan this favor,could we build it based on ''rock ship'' aesthetics?

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fitting for their species and i like the idea of ships that are esentially a outer hull made of incredibly hard concrete-like material
 
Does this not get us what the thread has been talking about, to get a pipeline of new Cogitare crew/OMC Operators without having to spend boons?

-[][Expansion] To Calderath and Vorthryn, without Cogitare bases
They expand through Ascalon towards Calderath and Vorthryn. -1 boon because you're telling them to respect your turf and allow your Cogitare to expand while under their protective umbrella.

Two bases where we can get new Cogitare without having to micromanage anything because they are protected by and connected to Denva.
It does not say anything about the locals, who are probably getting integrated no matter what option we choose.
(Because they will want to get integrated.)
 
Chlof said:
Could we assign a Victan/Vita Diplo action to give their diplomatic corps a primer in subverting Imperial power structures or something like that as a way of ensuring that their approach to that kind of thing is less... blunt, for lack of a better word?
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Amusingly enough, they've actually done that more than you have, given their past history starting as revolts against Imperial rule. You merely subverted some mechanicus along the way. So you wouldn't be able to help out a lot. Doing some of the spy-focused cybernetics & biology research (Physical Apperance is Skin-deep, various combat implant techs, etc) and maybe investing an action to help them build out a core of infiltrators and spies that would probably matter more.

Then maybe they could infiltrate and assassinate Imperial leaders instead of simply invading with waves of bots.

Haganeko said:
Not necessarily. I was under the impression that passive corruption was a thing. Though maube not since the thing doesn't have a soul?
...wait
@Neablis can we put machine spirits in the phone? Do we know?
That would provide some chaos resistance.
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You need Megastructure Machine Spirits (200 RP).
 
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Neablis said:
Minor. That's probably their preferred option, but it's going to run up hard into the practical realities of 40k. I'm specifically thinking of the complexity involved in actually deciding what "respecting the sovereignty of the locals" means in the context of ex-imperial worlds with fanatical nuns ready to orbital-drop anybody who expresses a desire to maybe stop worshiping big E (and also showing complete obedience to the local Ecclesiarchy), or tribal feral-world societies ruled by brutal warlords... or whatever they'll find out in the broader sector.

If you intervene, they'll probably bend further over backwards to secure local assent peaceably instead of being somewhat more proactive in getting the consent of the populace. Exactly what that looks like depends on rolls and other factors, but it's not unlikely that as they are now they'll talk to the Sororitas, decide they're unreasonable and nuke them, then talk to the Eccliasarchy, decide they're unreasonable and send in the bots to liberate the populace of Ascalon by force from what they see as despotic ruler. Not surprising given their own history.
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I am very much in favor of them prioritizing the populace over tyrannic rulers :)
 
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