Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
Honestly, the most important technology we can research right now is Miniaturized Psychic Shields, since that will greatly assist the psychic population of the planet. We kinda neglected diplomacy with the monasteries, so having something they want to help them integrate better with the rest of civilisation is a great bargaining chip.
- Pronouns
- Zack
are we going to have to build more Captive Holding cells?
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
As a reminder, the machine spirit research has potential to lead to better Chaos shielding. Not sure in what form, so could turn out to not be appliable to shielding for psykers. Then again, might depend on the roll, so unless Neablis confirms it beforehand, hard to say.
But if we want something straightforward, that will probably benefit from other improvements later on? Miniaturization research for the psychic shielding seems straightforward, and has many applications. Even for potentially shielding Vita on a ship better, as there is mention about "nesting" the shields in the research:
However, as it is 300 RP project, we cannot finish it in just one turn. So spending RP towards it on this turn won't give us anything immediately, and the action could be instead spent on this turn to get some more immediate benefits. Followed by a 2x (or more) research turn to finish it in one go.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I also think, honestly, that I'd like to do "biology is Kinda Wet" before we leave, whenever that is (probably within the next few turns). I want to see if we can figure out anything else about Juvenat for now... though presumably we can always return here to trade new technology or so on, potentially.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Yes. Very true. It should still be largely independent, methinks. They won't accept otherwise. Not that it's a necessarily bad thing.
But we should try to decouple the politics from the learning and engineering. It can be a social standing and probably should be. But we need to largely sever them from politics so they don't fall back on infighting and corruption of the organisational type.
Opening up some of our database for free access is probably a good idea, that's how we converted Anexa. Especially the historical database, give them insight in how the ancients lived and what worked for a society. But we should do it to everyone, not just the mechanicus... enough of it that they know we have more but also to prove we believe in our ideals.
We can actually. It'd just take another action. But I doubt that's worth it this turn. We should get Psytech first anyways, because it's obviously gonna discount our nope shield research.
Edit:
In fact, I think we should do psytech and give the Mechanicus the data on it, and the Nope shield and have the improvement of the Nope shield be one of their first research projects. There's few projects more worthy than a technological method of denying the Archenemy!
Edit 2: Eclectic editaloo:
In fact, I think charging them with a research project like that will prove the necessity of restructure and incentivise them to do so themselves.
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Ah, clarification to what I meant. We cannot complete on this turn if we want to spend two actions on diplomacy and take one construction action, which I've seen being thrown around as a suggestion for the action-slot allocation for this turn. And agree with it most likely being a good idea.
- Location
- Belgium
Agreed we wouldn't want to create a Niops Association from the leftovers of the mechanicus where education and scientific knowledge decides where you are on the stratification ladder 🪜 (hang on that sound familiar) and caste system is created from.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I mean, ultimately we want all of this knowledge (I mean, other than the Chaos stuff, obviously) to be widely accessible to everyone, which is kinda opposed to the Mechanicus being a mostly or fully independent body that can set the standards of who gets to learn things and who doesn't.
At some point we'll also want to figure out the Psyker situation.
...which also means we should be working on Psytech and Miniaturization Tech. Imagine if we could build them some anti-Warp-Fuckery buildings?
Or if they had something like that already and we could use it to figure out that part of the Psychic Shield easier!
At some point we'll also want to figure out the Psyker situation.
...which also means we should be working on Psytech and Miniaturization Tech. Imagine if we could build them some anti-Warp-Fuckery buildings?
Or if they had something like that already and we could use it to figure out that part of the Psychic Shield easier!
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
It's still going to be a few turns before we can even think to start building our new ship, so I think that we probably want to get some biology, psychology, and sociology techs in the mean time to help ensure that things continue to go well? Going all in on hardware alone will result in being rather limited in our ability to help anyone we come across, after all.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Though as far as hardware goes, I do think we need to maybe put at least a bit more towards the "Figure out Machine Spirits" thing than we currently are. Since at the current rate it'll be done in, what, a century or two?
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
HA! Yeah...
The next few turns should probably be primarily research and diplomacy. Do the restructuring of the Admech and knocking out all those fundamentals we've ignored for too long.
Agreed, the Ad Mech as a cult that seeks to control the building and use of technology is dangerous and anti-democratic (there's something I never expected to be able to say in a Warhammer quest
). At the end of the day their sphere of influence encompass basically the entire economy of an advanced society. It would be irresponsible for any state not ruled by a megalomaniac militarist bent on galactic conquest to allow them to control that much (it was irresponsible for the Emperor too, he just thought he could crush them with his psychic power and geneforged soldiers when the time came). At the very most the Ad Mech can be a sort of science and R&D cult
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Agreed, the Ad Mech as a cult that seeks to control the building and use of technology is dangerous and anti-democratic (there's something I never expected to be able to say in a Warhammer quest
Compromise idea would be starting to test some of them for their capacity to do original research, and others of them for their capacity to teach (and there'd be overlap) and basically turn them into a Union/Guild/etc of Professors or something like that?
It'd give the original generation some social status (TM), but because it'd be reliant on interacting with a structure that's not the AdMech, the only way to survive would be to basically blow the definition of "Mechanicius" so wide open that it's just a series of scientific fields and/or jobs rather than, y'know.
E:
Honestly the following might not be a bad first step:
Some sort of "Time of Testing and Trials" where the Mechanicus, both those on 'our' side and those on the other side (though maybe add assurances that of course we're sure those on our side already know this and are so advanced, etc, etc), are presented with all of those logic puzzles and tests and research subjects, as well as additional tests/lessons related to their ability to teach, and their ability to do original research (starting with safe research that we've done, maybe, that we ask them to see how well they can reinvent the wheel or something, before handing more off to them.)
Maybe even make teaching the quasi-techies that some of the governments have made part of the test... and watch as people embrace these things less out of faith and more out of a desire to Win.
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Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
[] Mockup plan: Have some Nope shield, as a treat.
-[] Research: psytech fundamentals. Anexa assist?
-[] Diplomacy: Admech
Most of the upper crust is still in on it for their own personal political gain. We can't so easily convert them, we'll advise them and teach them our ways to continue that subversion. But experience is the best teacher. We propose the seperation of politics and expertise, but chances are they won't take it. It's too ingrained.
Give them the research on Psytech and the Nope Shield. Task each enclave to improve it independently. After five years they will present their work to you and eachother. You will forge the winners one archeotech artefact of choice. (It's gonna be pretty worthless later, if you succeed. But they've not realised or internalised it. Alternatively, a batch of juvenat.)
You will document their progres and write a report that you'll also share. You'll advise and teach those who ask for it and tell them so, as well as offer some minor material support. But volunteer little.
Sabotage will be allowed to happen, within certain limits. Small things and stalling only, but any attempts will be logged and count against their score as if it succeeded. If too much is destroyed, send them a copy of their work to restore from.
A projected score will also be given on what you think would've happened with no sabotage and full-focus had been on research.
Let the enclaves stay as they currently are for the contest. Gutted leadership included. Though propose a stop-gap solution to that.
Knowledge sharing and diplomacy is allowed, but has no direct effects on score.
Be completely open about the rules.
Invite the governments into the test too? Don't tell admech about their presence though.
Victan assist.
-[] Diplomacy: Denva
Inform them of your existence, your past actions and your current actions (and status) of the Mechanicus. Ask Aevon to step forth and prove your intent and ability. Advise them to build up industry while the Admech is distracted, just in case.
Give them the rundown on the capabilities, Modus Operandi and countermeasures against Chaos while keeping it carefully clean of cognitohazardous material. (You should double check with nope shield strain measurements). Offer to share with Victan and Anexa, too.
Also blame chaos for the current state of the galaxy, including the fall of the eldar, ruination of the imperium and cybernetic revolt.
Ask them to task at least one lab on joining the Nope-shield showcase/experiment.
-[] Construction:
Send the station-expedition their resources and offer to take them back to planetside and join one of the enclaves, pausing the expedition until the reforms are complete, or to stay there and keep at it. Either way, send them enough resources for the next ten years.
Build a shuttleport or two, maybe more. Make sure they're stocked (and repurpose a few fighter ports temporarily?). Use them to ship some resources and the materiel for a bunch of manned manufactories and other stuff to help the nations of Denva build up while Mechanicus is busy. Maybe send some combat aid.
-[] Research: psytech fundamentals. Anexa assist?
-[] Diplomacy: Admech
Most of the upper crust is still in on it for their own personal political gain. We can't so easily convert them, we'll advise them and teach them our ways to continue that subversion. But experience is the best teacher. We propose the seperation of politics and expertise, but chances are they won't take it. It's too ingrained.
Give them the research on Psytech and the Nope Shield. Task each enclave to improve it independently. After five years they will present their work to you and eachother. You will forge the winners one archeotech artefact of choice. (It's gonna be pretty worthless later, if you succeed. But they've not realised or internalised it. Alternatively, a batch of juvenat.)
You will document their progres and write a report that you'll also share. You'll advise and teach those who ask for it and tell them so, as well as offer some minor material support. But volunteer little.
Sabotage will be allowed to happen, within certain limits. Small things and stalling only, but any attempts will be logged and count against their score as if it succeeded. If too much is destroyed, send them a copy of their work to restore from.
A projected score will also be given on what you think would've happened with no sabotage and full-focus had been on research.
Let the enclaves stay as they currently are for the contest. Gutted leadership included. Though propose a stop-gap solution to that.
Knowledge sharing and diplomacy is allowed, but has no direct effects on score.
Be completely open about the rules.
Invite the governments into the test too? Don't tell admech about their presence though.
Victan assist.
-[] Diplomacy: Denva
Inform them of your existence, your past actions and your current actions (and status) of the Mechanicus. Ask Aevon to step forth and prove your intent and ability. Advise them to build up industry while the Admech is distracted, just in case.
Give them the rundown on the capabilities, Modus Operandi and countermeasures against Chaos while keeping it carefully clean of cognitohazardous material. (You should double check with nope shield strain measurements). Offer to share with Victan and Anexa, too.
Also blame chaos for the current state of the galaxy, including the fall of the eldar, ruination of the imperium and cybernetic revolt.
Ask them to task at least one lab on joining the Nope-shield showcase/experiment.
-[] Construction:
Send the station-expedition their resources and offer to take them back to planetside and join one of the enclaves, pausing the expedition until the reforms are complete, or to stay there and keep at it. Either way, send them enough resources for the next ten years.
Build a shuttleport or two, maybe more. Make sure they're stocked (and repurpose a few fighter ports temporarily?). Use them to ship some resources and the materiel for a bunch of manned manufactories and other stuff to help the nations of Denva build up while Mechanicus is busy. Maybe send some combat aid.
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- Location
- Alaska
On the Denva diplomacy outreach, I'd suggest a push toward a global governmental organization capable of dealing with interstellar threats and the unresolved Denva I issue, as well as the assorted interstellar stations in the solar system.
That's in addition to revealing ourselves as AI with historic roots.
I'd suggest that the new-look Mechanicus lose its status as a government-level organization and instead become subordinate to the global government.
That's in addition to revealing ourselves as AI with historic roots.
I'd suggest that the new-look Mechanicus lose its status as a government-level organization and instead become subordinate to the global government.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Too early to reveal ourselves as an AI, IMO. And I'd like better warp understanding before we go poking Psytech, which is behind the void abacus research, and we probaby want better shielding before we get that...
So, secrets of the machine spirits seems like a good place to focus, yeah.
But research is a secondary priority right now. Now, its time to do nation building! We need to get the mechanicus sorted out, and to start teching up and improving the nations of Denva so they can be our allies. Probably want to spend some manufacturing capacity giving them stuff? Maybe flat out make manned manufactories for them. And I'd really like to acquire a publishing house or two.
So, secrets of the machine spirits seems like a good place to focus, yeah.
But research is a secondary priority right now. Now, its time to do nation building! We need to get the mechanicus sorted out, and to start teching up and improving the nations of Denva so they can be our allies. Probably want to spend some manufacturing capacity giving them stuff? Maybe flat out make manned manufactories for them. And I'd really like to acquire a publishing house or two.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Holy shit. Can we build a destroyer this turn in one action?
3,250 BP, 500 current lift capacity.
3x Spaceports for 100 BP each. 10 basic shuttles each is 3x200=600 BP.
This leaves us 2,350 BP left, of which 2,000 can be used as Void BP.
A small shipyard is 1,000 BP and a destroyer is 950 BP, leaving us 400 BP to spend.
The only issue is the station needs 250 BP, which I think needs to be VBP? @Neablis is that correct?
If it is then we just don't have the resources to pull it off in one action.
Edit: Unless we can just give the mechanicus the supplies on-planet and they take them up there.
As for research I'm tempted to just do these, then put the remaining 50 RP in SotMS. Keep it simple.
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Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
I'm pretty sure they both come with warp understanding. Unless you mean the "politics" of the warp? In which case: we already read the Archenemy files. Which is more than we'd ever discover on our own for ages without.
Insult Everyone!
Master of Evil but bad at it.
- Location
- Right behind you~
Won't fly. The nations of Denva alone are enough for that.
Either rejoin, or become too big to remove without being enough of a threat they do so anyways.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Fundamentally if the Imperium shows up it is war. They're literally mass-murdering Fascists. Here's a planet that doesn't provide ruinous, self-destructive Tithes and doesn't spend half its time fighting Chaos and half its time making Chaos stronger (half of the fighting Chaos also makes Chaos stronger.)
- Location
- The internet
My read is that industrially we probably want to do the following:
1. Expand our industrial base even more (probably with maned manufacturing as well for political reasons)
2. build a bunch of lift capacity, probably shuttles since those are the most efficient even if I prefer the mass drives from an aesthetic standpoint.
3. build our shipyard (probably simultaneous with #2)
4. build our ship.
I'm imagining something like:
Medium Mechanized Infantry Brigade:
3x Medium Infantry units w/transports
2x Medium Tank unit
1x Artillery unit
1x Support unit (logistics and transports)
And then we'd just print that whenever we want a generic fighty unit to do fighty things without having to manually keep track of making sure that we keep the right ratio of infantry to tanks to artillery and such. Add in a few more formations (elite infantry, heavy armor, airborne maybe?) and it would make bookkeeping more intuitive on our end and probably yours as well.
1. Expand our industrial base even more (probably with maned manufacturing as well for political reasons)
2. build a bunch of lift capacity, probably shuttles since those are the most efficient even if I prefer the mass drives from an aesthetic standpoint.
3. build our shipyard (probably simultaneous with #2)
4. build our ship.
This makes sense, though it raises a question: would it be possible to eventually transform our book keeping to a regiment, brigade or division system rather than ordering individual peices of military equipment?
I'm imagining something like:
Medium Mechanized Infantry Brigade:
3x Medium Infantry units w/transports
2x Medium Tank unit
1x Artillery unit
1x Support unit (logistics and transports)
And then we'd just print that whenever we want a generic fighty unit to do fighty things without having to manually keep track of making sure that we keep the right ratio of infantry to tanks to artillery and such. Add in a few more formations (elite infantry, heavy armor, airborne maybe?) and it would make bookkeeping more intuitive on our end and probably yours as well.
Makes sense I suppose. I sorta thought I could get away with combining the two of them due to how small the conflict was and how long our turns are, and I suppose I was right.
We could stand to gain for having a military person that's apart of our crew that knows how to lead our robotic forces. Especially after the first time where we attempted to try to attack the enclaves, Vita is not made to be a military AI, she is made to be a diplomatic and explorer Man of Stone.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly I'm less worries about the imperium arriving and more worried about internal subversion. A chaos cult popping up at the wrong time here could toss a spanner into things.
To that end investigating the abbeys/monasteries wouldn't be the worst idea.
To that end investigating the abbeys/monasteries wouldn't be the worst idea.