Oooh. I like this one. French Guiana gets to be the Brazilian (and by extension South American) 'in' with the EU. Beginning fruitful relationship is probably not even beginning to describe it.
Mercosur on steroids?
Victoria Falls Worldbuilding Thread
- Thread starter PoptartProdigy
- Start date
- Worldbuilding
EBR
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Khazaria
I feel that the Dominican Republic makes more sense Finlandized than adopting pro-Russian stances against its will. And I still think that my "Andean Union/Andean Alliance" with Colombia and Peru establishing/propping up friendly governments in Ecuador and Venezuela and then bringing them into an EU-type thingy rather than Colombia directly annexing its neighbors makes more sense.
But weirdly large Colombia is sufficiently fun that I'm not going to argue against it.
But weirdly large Colombia is sufficiently fun that I'm not going to argue against it.
I'm... honestly not to sure about the 'security theater to fool the Russians' thing. I could be wrong but, this... doesn't seem to be something that happens, at least on stages as big as the real world? It kinda requires Russia's spies to be fairly bad... then again, his A-game ones are probably not in SA. Even so, the problem with fake security theater is that you can't let people know, which in turn means that when you make 'mouth noises' the average person will believe you. As such the average citizen of the other country will see you talking with anti-them rhetoric, and they will see it, clips of people to get angry at tend to boil the emotions (and view counts) more than mundane stuff. Which feels like it means that many of the citizens are genuinely going to feel hostility.
Granted, they might not be democracies, but even so non-democratic governments aren't immune to populist sentiments. And any elite who is willing to go harder on embracing it will have a ready swell up support, which means that the politicians now need to 'talk tough' for domestic reasons, which means the talks gets worse and so on and so forth.
I like the general co-operation, but I feel like it would be better without the mouth noises part. Just, SA has kinda... stopped fighting, and ignores the powers when they try to get something going. Sure, Alexander probably could punish them for it, but in order to do so, he'd have to take forces off Europe, or China, or the Mid East. None of which he can really afford but... SA is kinda ignoring him. It's one of the real stretch-point that show how much his grip is weakening.
Granted, they might not be democracies, but even so non-democratic governments aren't immune to populist sentiments. And any elite who is willing to go harder on embracing it will have a ready swell up support, which means that the politicians now need to 'talk tough' for domestic reasons, which means the talks gets worse and so on and so forth.
I like the general co-operation, but I feel like it would be better without the mouth noises part. Just, SA has kinda... stopped fighting, and ignores the powers when they try to get something going. Sure, Alexander probably could punish them for it, but in order to do so, he'd have to take forces off Europe, or China, or the Mid East. None of which he can really afford but... SA is kinda ignoring him. It's one of the real stretch-point that show how much his grip is weakening.
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hej poptart what happen to that crazy Brazilian president(can't remember his name) who publicly denounced climate change 
edit: Jair bolsoaro's his name powerful supporter of agribusiness guy has to go
edit: Jair bolsoaro's his name powerful supporter of agribusiness guy has to go
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I imagine he died, since he's like 65 now and we are in the 2070's.
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
GRAN COLOMBIA
BRAZILIAN SPACE PROGRAM
ABC ALLIANCE
BRAZILIAN SPACE PROGRAM
ABC ALLIANCE
would someone not haft to stop him from cutting down the amazon in the chaos of the collapse?
- Location
- United States
My prediction of what would happen to make Brazil keep afloat is the military stepping in during the worst parts of the collapse (presumably with Alexander's aid) and then relinquishing power back to the civilian government. Or maybe not - it is kinda silly that apparently no nation underwent coups or revolutions, successful or not, during this whole period. Perhaps Brazil's still under a junta?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It seems likely.would someone not haft to stop him from cutting down the amazon in the chaos of the collapse?
If nothing else, Bolsonaro is not a remarkably competent or stable man. His ability to retain power during Collapse conditions is questionable.
who wanna bet got to him first the Russians or the military maybe a mob
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Forgot Cuba! They're now in.
Coups that do not change national borders, allegiances, or identities are below the level of abstraction for this project.
so Cuba will be an enemy so be it 
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The big trigger condition is that if Russia falls apart, or if Alexander dies and is succeeded by Catherine who considers this whole "keep America shattered" project counterproductive, Cuba has every reason to realign or at least re-prioritize its foreign policy. The problem is that if we keep expanding down the Mississippi, the Commonwealth is likely to run into Cuban influence pointing the other way before Alexander dies.
Victoria may be effectively incapable of projecting power and influence for a while, as long as those treaties hold and while they're rebuilding from the civil war, but Alexander has other client states...
Victoria may be effectively incapable of projecting power and influence for a while, as long as those treaties hold and while they're rebuilding from the civil war, but Alexander has other client states...
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Eh. Between its location, its status as a Revivalist state, and its Cuban refugee population, Miami will be an issue for Cuba long before we can project that far South.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly was pretty surprised, during the course of my research, to learn that noncompliance with international medical assignments carries a prison sentence of three to eight years in Cuba.
Like, not that I was surprised to hear about that sort of thing from Cuba, their human rights record is not what you could, in any objective sense, call robust, I just wasn't expecting to see that specific thing popping up as an example.
Like, not that I was surprised to hear about that sort of thing from Cuba, their human rights record is not what you could, in any objective sense, call robust, I just wasn't expecting to see that specific thing popping up as an example.
So, Cuba is likely to be the actual main opponent to us once we get to the stage where we can care about what's happening down south. At the very least we may need to send Miami some help to stay out of Cuba's zone of influence. Also, Puerto Rico sounds like it has the potential to become one of our friends relatively soon in the future, we should send some spies over there to keep track of how things are going I think.
- Location
- Illinois
So here's my attempt to place what the second draft shows on a map. I might've misunderstood some things, but hopefully it's okay.
Just a note, I have yet to finalize Colombia's new size, so I left its old borders in case I need to change it back. The turquoise line encircling Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, and Chile is supposed to be the Southern Cone alliance, although I may change its color in case it's too difficult to see. Gold outlined nations means Russian-aligned states whether via diplomacy or force, yellow colors nations (ie just a few islands) are Russian clients. The red around Hawaii is Japan and the pink above is obviously the Mexico state.
I also lumped the Bahamas with Miami because fuck trying to get what the hell is going on there.
Just a note, I have yet to finalize Colombia's new size, so I left its old borders in case I need to change it back. The turquoise line encircling Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, and Chile is supposed to be the Southern Cone alliance, although I may change its color in case it's too difficult to see. Gold outlined nations means Russian-aligned states whether via diplomacy or force, yellow colors nations (ie just a few islands) are Russian clients. The red around Hawaii is Japan and the pink above is obviously the Mexico state.
I also lumped the Bahamas with Miami because fuck trying to get what the hell is going on there.
EBR
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Khazaria
So here's my attempt to place what the second draft shows on a map. I might've misunderstood some things, but hopefully it's okay.
Just a note, I have yet to finalize Colombia's new size, so I left its old borders in case I need to change it back. The turquoise line encircling Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, and Chile is supposed to be the Southern Cone alliance, although I may change its color in case it's too difficult to see. Gold outlined nations means Russian-aligned states whether via diplomacy or force, yellow colors nations (ie just a few islands) are Russian clients. The red around Hawaii is Japan and the pink above is obviously the Mexico state.
I also lumped the Bahamas with Miami because fuck trying to get what the hell is going on there.
Perhaps I misread it, but my understanding was that both Ecuador and Venezuela had been entirely incorporated into Colombia.
Oh, and we should throw something interesting into Central America just to avoid the "nothing ever happens in Central America" trope. Like Guatemala occupying Belize or something like that.
- Location
- Illinois
You could be, I wasn't sure. The text says that chunks of Venezuela were taken, but I don't know if that means all of the chunks. And Ecuador recieved help from Colombia, but does that also include annexation?
That's true. I was thinking that maybe Russia makes friends with Costa Rica and it conquers parts of Central America.
EBR
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Khazaria
I think we need our glorious quest-master to weigh in here.
Does Costa Rica have any territorial claims outside of its borders? Because I was thinking that Guatemala has claimed Belize for most of its existence, has a history of right-wing demagogues using those claims to whip up nationalist sentiment, and with the British garrison in Belize withdrawn Belize would have zero ability to defeat a foreign invasion.
- Location
- Illinois
They're pretty small and probably insignificant. There's Isla Calero against Nicuagra, which I think the UN court sided with Costa Rica in 2018. Honestly I was thinking more along the lines of Russia egging them on since Costa Rica is pretty green and I could imagine Russia liking them for that.
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Well, the parts that I feel I have the knowledge to say anything about look plausible.
If the Colombians are smart, their "grand Colombia" will be an alliance, and they'll rule Venezuela and Ecuador through friendly local elites that are very grateful for Colombia's aid during the bad times and who are loyal allies who take pains to make their countries friendly places for Colombian businesses to operate.
There may even be a broad pro-Colombian sentiment in the two countries like there was for the USA in Europe last century.
fasquardon
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Couple comments:
-There's a lot of Jamaicans of African descent.
Small nation(~3 million) but lotta black people. And an outsize presence for its size in international culture, especially out on the African continent.
Just putting it out there, in the event you want or need complications.
-Bahamas is ~400k.
I wonder why they're being so carefully mentioned by our devious GM....
-Cuba is being set up as a miniboss.
Fortunately they're not much of a naval power, and at ~11 million people they dont really have the resource base to project hundreds of thousands of soldiers anywhere.
But they have always been much more competent than the Vics. And they have a very good intelligence service; they've run agents high up in the US intelligence services(Ana Montes) and the State Department(Walter Kendall Myers) for years before getting caught.
This will be an issue. And not necessarily a military one.
-*looks suspiciously at the Central America writeup*
Yeah, I think Russia is going to lean on them to supply "volunteers" to go help the Christian nation of Victoria.
Poor bastards.
-Columbia is likely to be the nation that Russia is going to pressure to fuck with us in the Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico.
Historically American allies, but theyre the only ones on this list with a Caribbean shoreline and a significant navy.
-French Guiana is only 300k people.
Worth remembering.
-Its worth remembering that there is a significant ethnic Indian population in the Caribbean. To quote Wikipedia:
Indo-Caribbeans are the largest ethnic group in Guyana, Suriname and Trinidad and Tobago. They are the second largest group in Jamaica, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and other countries. There are small populations of them in Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, French Guiana, Grenada, Panama, Guatemala, St Lucia, Haiti, Martinique, Guadeloupe, and the Netherlands Antilles.
Indian diaspora - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Not counting the US, there's over a million Indo-Caribbeans in the region,. Just in case you need to complicate the area further.Indo-Caribbean people - Wikipedia
-Also worth noting:
Russia pushing Argentina to make noises at Brazil gives both sides a reason to arm up. Which might be a spectacular own goal when talking about two nuclear threshold states with domestic missile program capability (and in the case of Brazil, a domestic nuclear submarine program)
-The status of those overseas territories are kinda important to us.
Some of them
Knowing who else holds personal grudges in the region other than France helps us know who else to approach for financing and technical support.
Who else benefits from our putting the screws to Russian proxies and stretching Alexander's resources, and can be persuaded to pay while we bleed.
I mean, we already have China and France.
We have to finance the war somehow.