Victoria Falls Worldbuilding Thread

Egypt controls the Suez Canal.
Suez access is more or less a prerequisite for Russian ability to exit the Mediterranean and get into the Gulf without having to ship heavy equipment all the way through Gibraltar and around the Cape. Or having to rely on Iranian overland access through occupied Azerbaijan/Armenia/Turkmenistan.

Or invent teleportation.

Therefore Egyptian survival and frankly success is a prerequisite for the setting to work. So it seems to me anyway.
And that colors much of the rest of North and East Africa.
Yesbut.

On the other hand, the Suez Canal is basically a gigantic ditch. It's relatively hard to sabotage (except, perhaps obviously now, by sinking ships in it), and it doesn't have quite the same level of engineering complexity and maintenance requirements as many other major canals that have lock assemblies and so on. A lot of different things could happen to, or in, Egypt without the Russians losing the use of the Suez Canal.

Yes, i saw your worldbuilding suggestion and I mostly agree with Akuz's assesment of it. You neglect several key factors in egypt's food security apparatus like the effects of climate change on it (if you wanna a surefire way of making egypt depndent on russian imports for starts),
We've been operating on the assumption of deliberately nerfed climate change- that is, climate change little or no worse than the present day, and held to that level by aggressive greening efforts made by... well, mainly by the Russians who are the dominant hyperpower of the setting as of 2075 or so.

Also I lost all respect for your knowledge on the subject when you brought in pan-arabism into the mix instead of the currently far more widespread pan-islamic current
That one is partly on the QM, who has been referencing a new pan-Arabism as a reaction to the massive changes in the power dynamics of the Middle East over the time period from roughly 2017-2076, caused by the point of departure of Trump cratering the American economy in 2017 and sending the whole global system as we know it into a death spiral.
 
Going back to the time of the pharohes would make as much sense as Rome returning to the Principate Empire or the UK returning to tribal warlordism. Frankly its pretty orientalist to suggest it, even in jest.
That would require a return to the cultural tenets of Ancient Egypt which... let's be honest, was deader than dead since the death of Cleopatra.

Um, no. It requires going back to the nationalist ideas popular in Egypt in the 1920s and 1930s. Ideas that identified the current population of Egypt with the population that had lived there in the time of the Pharaohs, rather than ideas that emphasized the Egyptian population's connection with the Arabs who'd invaded a little more than a thousand years before.

Maybe look up what you are denouncing before you denounce it? Pharoahism is as valid as modern British people claiming Boudicca as a national hero, and indicates as much desire to return to a Bronze Age system of government as British veneration of Boudicca indicates that any British nation wants to go back to Iron Age tribalism. (I say British because her mix of geographic location and ethnic identity means pretty much any of the modern British nations can claim her if they want.)

fasquardon
 
Um, no. It requires going back to the nationalist ideas popular in Egypt in the 1920s and 1930s. Ideas that identified the current population of Egypt with the population that had lived there in the time of the Pharaohs, rather than ideas that emphasized the Egyptian population's connection with the Arabs who'd invaded a little more than a thousand years before.

Maybe look up what you are denouncing before you denounce it? Pharoahism is as valid as modern British people claiming Boudicca as a national hero, and indicates as much desire to return to a Bronze Age system of government as British veneration of Boudicca indicates that any British nation wants to go back to Iron Age tribalism. (I say British because her mix of geographic location and ethnic identity means pretty much any of the modern British nations can claim her if they want.)

fasquardon

You said it before I could. "Pharaoh-ism" was really popular in Egypt in the early 20th century not because the Egyptians were embracing ancient Egyptian values or culture but because they were embracing a multi-thousand year heritage that separated them from their neighbors- and identified modern Egyptians (who Europeans scorned as racially and culturally inferior) with ancient Egyptians (who Europeans had an avowed fascination and respect for). It also reflected strains of secular thought that were circulating in Egypt at the time by de-emphasizing (but in no way denigrating) the role of Islam in Egypt.

It's not at all implausible to have a wave of Egyptian Nationalism at some point in the future that stresses the Pharaohs and the Dynastic Periods in Egyptian identity.
 
I'm mainly basing my knowledge of the drug epidemic in Nigeria off various UN reports and news articles.

The economy, while dependent on oil for revenue, isn't organized nor effective like Saudi Arabia in regards to having an organized welfare state to keep down protests and discontent. That's why there is constant headlines in Nigeria about either youth gangs wrecking Lagos or gun busts by SARS (who are widely loathed by the average Nigerian). They have no employment prospects, nor a welfare state to keep them placated, so they turn to crime as a way to make ends meet.
Im basing my knowledge of Nigeria on not just news reports, but also the fact that I've lived and worked there, and remain in contact with friends who live and work there, including multiple people in the federal medical sector. Which allows me to call bullshit on some claims, like when you said heroin was a significant drug problem in Nigeria.

Cannabis as the dominant illicit drug? Yes. Cheap, locally produced. Heroin? Nope, imported, expensive. Tramadol imports from Asia? Plausible.

The top line data in the news article you point out conflate cannabis use, the non-medical use of prescription opioids, and the use of cough syrup containing codeine and dextrometrophan. When you drill down into the numbers in the report, it begins to look less wild. I'm still skeptical of some of the numbers being given(1 in 7 adult Nigerians are drug users, 1 in 25 opioid users, and there are no societal effects? Pull the other one), but they are less eye-poppingly implausible.

-The economy is not dependent on oil for revenue. Oil is 9% of GDP, compared to, say, agriculture at 20%.
The government budget is dependent on oil; thats not the same thing.

-Nigeria has always had a crime problem; far back as the 1980s highway bandits like Anini and Shina Rambo were infamous for plaguing the highways and waylaying interstate traffic. Area Boys, or youth gangs as you call them, have been a feature of parts of Nigerian inner cities, particularly around the motor parks, since the 1990s.
They principally play enforcer for local power structures.

Police corruption has also been an age-old issue.
Its just much easier to document them these days when everybody has a smartphone and internet connection.
While you are right in how West Africa is different in terms of xenophobia, that can easily change with an influx of young, unskilled Nigerians who, more often than not, turn to crime to survive. An increased crime rate and police militarization in these neighboring countries will more often than not ignite xenophobia. Imagine rural America-levels of brutality in say, Ghana, Cameroon, and Benin. There's also Niger, which in our world, is already suffering from a Malthusian Collapse (no joke, 1/8th of all Nigerien children die of hunger and gavelkind is speeding up desertification). They would probably reject every Nigerian who isn't a bureaucrat/college-educated worker. It would likely have an America-Mexico situation whereby IDP camps dor the Lake Chad area, increasing desertification and exacerbating the crisis.

Sidenote, but South Africa is depressing in how they treat people who are seeking a better life. Some of these people have only the clothes on their skin, but to South Africans already struggling with unemployment, they have the irredeemable sin of being from another country. It's honestly depressing to think fs out South Africa. It would be a major source of violence in this world, maybe even an anarchic period.

By the way, do you have sources citing the lack of xenophobia in West Africa, oil revenue, and the codeine epidemic?
You have the wrong picture.

Lemme give you some numbers for Nigeria's bordering countries. Niger is 23 million. Cameroon is 25 million. Benin is 12 million.
Meantime Lagos State population alone is estimated at between 15-20 million.
The country of Nigeria is currently around 210-219 million; the entirety of West Africa is 410 million.

If there is a breakdown in order in Nigeria, it will roll its neighbors over like a steamroller.
Ghana is not a border country of Nigeria btw; Togo and Benin are intervening territories.
Wont save it though.

Niger has a population growth rate of ~3.8%, some of the highest in the world, with the average woman birthing around 6.3 kids
Their child mortality rates aint doing that much.

South Africa is 🤷
A century of apartheid is going to leave a mark, and immigrant black Africans are an easier (and safer) target to take out their frustrations on.
Especially with when the government used deportations as a sign that they were Doing Something(tm)

Figures are unreliable.
Some Nigerien immigrants are often phenotypically and linguistically distinct, so you can pick them out.
But most people look like other local Africans on the street, and the Nigerian government has never been overly particular about ID documents.

Yesbut.
On the other hand, the Suez Canal is basically a gigantic ditch. It's relatively hard to sabotage (except, perhaps obviously now, by sinking ships in it), and it doesn't have quite the same level of engineering complexity and maintenance requirements as many other major canals that have lock assemblies and so on. A lot of different things could happen to, or in, Egypt without the Russians losing the use of the Suez Canal.
The last two protracted shutdowns of the Suez Canal, in 1956-1957 after the British and French tried to seize it, and between 1967-1975 when the Israelis occupied the east bank, had the Egyptians basically dump sea mines and sink ships in the channel to block it.
I have no doubts they'd do it again.

Then add the fact that you could have anything from heavy mortars to rockets to artillery on either bank; the Egyptian armed forces are appallingly well armed, with some domestic arms manufacture, and a breakdown in law and order would dump those arms into the hands of armed factions in the general populace.
A situation where Egypt lost control of the Suez would leave it impassable one way or the other.

You would require a significant commitment of troops to hold and patrol that area without the acquiesence of the local population.
Multiple division-level strength at a minimum.
And Russia already has significant troop commitments in the Gulf proper.
 
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By the way, do you have sources citing the lack of xenophobia in West Africa, oil revenue, and the codeine epidemic?
Migration
A decade out of date, but the only thing I have besides experience

Oil revenue
santandertrade.com

Restricted Access

Main Sectors of Industry

The Nigerian economy is dominated by crude oil, which accounts for about 10% of the country's GDP, 70% of government revenue and more than 83% of the country's total export earnings, according to OPEC. Nigeria is the world's 8th oil exporter, and its oil reserves are estimated at about 35 billion barrels. The country also has become one of the lead exporters of liquefied natural gas, which accounts for an additional 15.5% of exports. The country also extracts tin ore and coal for domestic use. Nigeria's other natural resources include iron ore, limestone, niobium, lead, zinc and arable land. Another key sector of the Nigerian economy is agriculture, which employs 34.7% of the workforce and contributes for about 21.9% of GDP. The Southern and Central regions of the country produce yam, rice, and maize while the Northern regions produce sorghum, millet, rice, and livestock farming. Other major crops include beans, sesame, cashew nuts, cassava, cocoa beans, rubber, soybeans, and bananas. Nigerian agriculture is mainly centered on subsistence farming and it is not modernized enough.

The industrial sector makes up 27.4% of the GDP and employs 12.2% of the workforce. Its development has been constrained by power shortage. The largest industries in the country are the petroleum industry, tourism, agriculture, and mining. The petroleum industry currently suffers from oil theft, which is believed to cost the country potential revenues valued as much as USD 10.9 billion. Significant oil losses are also recorded due to oil spills.

Services represent 49.7% of the GDP and employs 53.1% of the population. Financial sectors, telecommunications and retail especially, are very dynamic. Tourism is also a significant sector, and to foster its growth, the government has established the Ministry of Culture, Tourism, and National Orientation. However, this sector still struggles from the country's poor power supply, insufficient road infrastructures, and a poor water quality. The Covid-19 pandemic has had a huge impact on tourism in Nigeria. It is estimated that travel to Nigeria was reduced by 3.5 million in 2020 leading to a revenue loss of $0.7 billion. The pandemic has also greatly affected the Nigerian entertainment industry by distorting the Nigerian Film Industry (NFI) 2020 revenue projection.

Nothing on the alleged codeine epidemic that I would hold up to academic scrutiny.
There was a BBC report two years back, complete with interviews with pharma reps intentionally selling cough syrup to addicts.
But there's no reliable study Im aware of besides the stuff you presented.
 
That would require a return to the cultural tenets of Ancient Egypt which... let's be honest, was deader than dead since the death of Cleopatra. The only ones who speak the language today are the Copts, and they're a minority in the country. Plus, even they don't really follow ancient Egyptian culture anymore. The vast majority of the populace, meanwhile, is more decidedly Arab, so Pharaonism will make as much sense to them as the Mandate of Heaven.

Speaking of the Copts, though, I recall from Coiler's Let's Read that Rumford exchanged the Muslims in Victoria for the Copts in Egypt, so that they'd be Christians free from oppression. Am I misremembering this? And if not, did this actually happen or did the QM go "nope, my bullshit meter can't cope with this"?
Unless Egypt was run by a truly insane Muslim Brotherhood government at the time (and I am NOT saying that's likely), then I can't remotely imagine the Egyptian government hating the Copts enough to send the Copts to Victoria.

It's possible that Egypt accepted a bunch of refugees fleeing religious persecution in Victoria and said "uh, sure, we'll exchange them for Christians, yeaaaaah" when some Victorian representative asked, and then just quietly... never did that. It's also possible that Rumford thought that lying and saying "we exchanged our hated Muslims for Christian minority sects who I vaguely remember being persecuted in the Middle East from all the alt-right websites I frequented in the 2020s" would sound good in his autobiography.

Because I'm pretty sure that in-story, the text of Victoria is approximately speaking John Rumford's edited autobiography, and it's very clear that by the time he wrote it (the late 2040s), the Vicks were actively engaged in aggressively rewriting its own history and then shooting any of its captive victims citizens who didn't believe the bullshit openly and enthusiastically enough. The final text is probably intended for consumption some time in the 2050s, after Rumford is safely dead (and the story of how that happened is firmly covered up). And by that time NO ONE is stupid enough to ask awkward questions like "so, uh, all those Copts we brought out of Egypt, sounds cool, can I meet them?"

But on the Subject of Egypt it's probably had a shotgun wedding to the Russian sphere of influence since they will want the Suez Canal under their influence if not direct control assuming they can get it. That's all predicated on the assumption that is still there of course and not damages though I could see russia and the EU wanting to rebuild it eventually. Mainly beacuse it's to damned convient from an economic and strategic stand point even if Globalisation has hit rock bottom there is still going to be merchant traffic out there.
Personally I'm coming around to the view that Egypt is basically a smaller cuddlier version of what Japan and India are- relatively large, successful nations that Alexander IV didn't see as a threat or rival, and which he co-opted into an alliance structure as a bulwark for his own power.

Egypt, as of the 2030s and '40s, probably wasn't rich or secure enough to pose a real threat, and may have willingly aligned itself with him, both to escape any risk of being targeted for devastation and because Alexander does have plenty of options in his toolbox if he actually wants to incentivize someone to be his friend.


The last two protracted shutdowns of the Suez Canal, in 1956-1957 after the British and French tried to seize it, and between 1967-1975 when the Israelis occupied the east bank, had the Egyptians basically dump sea mines and sink ships in the channel to block it.
I have no doubts they'd do it again.

Then add the fact that you could have anything from heavy mortars to rockets to artillery on either bank; the Egyptian armed forces are appallingly well armed, with some domestic arms manufacture, and a breakdown in law and order would dump those arms into the hands of armed factions in the general populace.
A situation where Egypt lost control of the Suez would leave it impassable one way or the other.

You would require a significant commitment of troops to hold and patrol that area without the acquiesence of the local population.
Multiple division-level strength at a minimum.
And Russia already has significant troop commitments in the Gulf proper.
I think you missed what I was getting at.

What I'm getting at is that there are many possible statuses for Egypt that are consistent with "the Suez Canal remains open to Russian shipping."

I agree, the hypothetical scenario of "the Russians hold the Canal open by force against the wishes of the Egyptian population" is not realistically one of those statuses.

But my point is, the bare fact that the Canal is open doesn't necessarily tell us much about the economic well-being of Egypt, or about Egypt's relations with its neighbors, or whether Egypt is beginning to project influence out into other parts of the Middle East or Africa.
 
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Personally I'm coming around to the view that Egypt is basically a smaller cuddlier version of what Japan and India are- relatively large, successful nations that Alexander IV didn't see as a threat or rival, and which he co-opted into an alliance structure as a bulwark for his own power.

Egypt, as of the 2030s and '40s, probably wasn't rich or secure enough to pose a real threat, and may have willingly aligned itself with him, both to escape any risk of being targeted for devastation and because Alexander does have plenty of options in his toolbox if he actually wants to incentivize someone to be his friend.

Makes a lot of sense to me. The canal is way more secure if it's being held by an Egypt that's a genuine ally of Russia than a satellite whose puppet government needs constant infusions of resources and whose anti-Russian insurgents might be tempted to interfere in Russian interests.
 
It's also possible that Rumford thought that lying and saying "we exchanged our hated Muslims for Christian minority sects who I vaguely remember being persecuted in the Middle East from all the alt-right websites I frequented in the 2020s" would sound good in his autobiography.
This.

Personally I'm coming around to the view that Egypt is basically a smaller cuddlier version of what Japan and India are- relatively large, successful nations that Alexander IV didn't see as a threat or rival, and which he co-opted into an alliance structure as a bulwark for his own power.

Egypt, as of the 2030s and '40s, probably wasn't rich or secure enough to pose a real threat, and may have willingly aligned itself with him, both to escape any risk of being targeted for devastation and because Alexander does have plenty of options in his toolbox if he actually wants to incentivize someone to be his friend.
Also worth noting that Israel is right there on Egypt's northeastern flank.
There are other geopolitical considerations in play for Alexander with regards to the jewel of the Nile.

Note that I dont claim any especial knowledge of North Africa. But my working hypothesis for the region is:

Egypt:
Suez Canal. Nile Delta. Light manufacturing, steel production. Intensive agriculture; wheat importer, rice exporter. Produced 9 million tons of wheat, 6.69 million tons of rice, 5 million tons of potatoes, 27 million tons of sugar cane and sugar beet, 24 million tons of all types of cereals, 4.6 million tons of citrus. 2019(FAOSTAT) numbers. Has its own gas reserves.

Makes it out fine and thrived; it has the agricultural and industrial capacity to adjust even without external intervention .

Algeria
Historically good terms with Russia. Major Russian military buyer. Oil/gas exporter.
Is fine for at least the first half of the Collapse; as countries diversify away from fossil fuels will have to diversify its economy .

Morocco
Stable govt. Significant agricultural producer and exporter; 1.9 million tons of olives, 1.9 million tons of potatoes, 3.7 million tons of sugar beet, 2.5 million tons of wheat just to pick some 2019 figures. Controls the other side of the Gibraltar Straits.
75% of known global phosphate reserves, required for agricultural fertilizer. Makes it out fine.

Sudan
Grows its own food just fine. Less than 20% of its arable land area is currently under cultivation
Oil exports began in 1999.
I expect them to survive the Collapse just fine as a nationstate, but possibly struggle as petroleum is deprecated as a source of fuel.


The question marks are Tunisia,which has a strong state but relies a lot on tourism, and I cant find enough data on a quick look to be confident about.

And Libya, which would have been engaged in civil war as the gust front of the Collapse hit, and is basically a petrostate with oil representing around 60% of their GDP. And allegedly only produce 25% of their own food domestically.
AND has major water issues.


EDIT
Piece of trivia for you:
70% of the world's cocoa production comes out of four West African countries: Ivory Coast(1st), Ghana(2nd), Nigeria(4th) and Camerooon(5th).
Ivory Coast + Ghana represent 50%. The only non-West African country in the Top 5 is Indonesia.

We saw a Commonwealth soldier eating a chocolate bar during the Detroit campaign.
If its cheap enough to get into the hands of a Third World soldier at the end of a convoluted supply line, then this AU must have retained or recovered significant production and processing capacity.

Or learned to grow it in a lab, of course.
 
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EDIT
Piece of trivia for you:
70% of the world's cocoa production comes out of four West African countries: Ivory Coast(1st), Ghana(2nd), Nigeria(4th) and Camerooon(5th).
Ivory Coast + Ghana represent 50%. The only non-West African country in the Top 5 is Indonesia.

We saw a Commonwealth soldier eating a chocolate bar during the Detroit campaign.
If its cheap enough to get into the hands of a Third World soldier at the end of a convoluted supply line, then this AU must have retained or recovered significant production and processing capacity.

Or learned to grow it in a lab, of course.

Good point.

Egypt:
Suez Canal. Nile Delta. Light manufacturing, steel production. Intensive agriculture; wheat importer, rice exporter. Produced 9 million tons of wheat, 6.69 million tons of rice, 5 million tons of potatoes, 27 million tons of sugar cane and sugar beet, 24 million tons of all types of cereals, 4.6 million tons of citrus. 2019(FAOSTAT) numbers. Makes it out fine; it has the agricultural capacity.

I'd expect Egypt is the largest concrete manufacturer in the region as well, since it is a major producer today.

Could also be a major producer of export solar power for Israel if relations are good enough.

In general, your analysis rings true to me from everything I know.

fasquardon
 
@PoptartProdigy
Something that occurs to me is a means of possibly tying more of the background global setting together.

An possibility is the idea that while Imperial Russia was scrambling for Eastern Europe and the Middle East in the 2030s and 2040s?
The PRC was moving for sub-saharan Africa to securing future sources of raw materials, markets and client/ally states. Except that Alexander had plot shields and succeeded, while the PRC did not, overextended and failed, with a push by Alexander to tip them over.

And that's part of what triggered the PRC's collapse.
And in the aftermath of that failure, Alexander stays mostly out of Africa, while the countries have to put themselves back together.

I mean, the PRC in this setting threw several hundred million/several billion dollars at building a cluster of tidal power plants in Fundy Bay in Victoria, ruled by a bunch of crazy retroculture fuckwits. For clout.
What would they have thrown at Africa?
 
An possibility is the idea that while Imperial Russia was scrambling for Eastern Europe and the Middle East in the 2030s and 2040s?
The PRC was moving for sub-saharan Africa to securing future sources of raw materials, markets and client/ally states. Except that Alexander had plot shields and succeeded, while the PRC did not, overextended and failed, with a push by Alexander to tip them over.

I've had similar thoughts...

Your post makes me wonder, are there any Communist parties in power in Africa in 2076? Could be interesting if there were.

fasquardon
 
I've had similar thoughts...

Your post makes me wonder, are there any Communist parties in power in Africa in 2076? Could be interesting if there were.

fasquardon
Closest thing I can think of is the South African Communist Party, part of the ruling coalition in SA.

Few subsaharan African political parties are straight up ideological to my knowledge.
Nigeria certainly doesnt have any.
And as far as I know, neither does any West African nation.
 
Data Dump 3
African Countries by Region said:
Northern Africa
Egypt
Sudan
Algeria
Morocco
Tunisia
Libya
Western Sahara

Western Africa
Nigeria
Ghana
Côte d'Ivoire
Niger
Burkina Faso
Mali
Senegal
Guinea
Benin
Togo
Sierra Leone
Liberia
Mauritania
Gambia
Guinea-Bissau
Cabo Verde
Saint Helena

Eastern Africa
Ethiopia
Tanzania
Kenya
Uganda
Mozambique
Madagascar
Malawi
Zambia
Zimbabwe
South Sudan
Rwanda
Burundi
Somalia
Eritrea
Mauritius
Djibouti
Réunion
Comoros
Mayotte
Seychelles

Middle Africa
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Angola
Cameroon
Chad
Central African Republic
Congo
Gabon
Equatorial Guinea
Sao Tome and Principe

Southern Africa
South Africa
Namibia
Botswana
Lesotho
Swaziland
World Population Trends said:
World Population by Region in 1950

#RegionPopulation
(1950)
World
Share
1Asia1,404,909,02155.4 %
2Europe549,328,88321.7 %
3Africa227,794,1369 %
4Northern America172,602,6246.8 %
5Latin America and the Caribbean168,820,6206.7 %
6Oceania12,975,8650.5 %

World Population by Region in 2050

#RegionPopulation
(2050)
World
Share
1Asia5,290,263,11854.3 %
2Africa2,489,275,45825.6 %
3Latin America and the Caribbean762,432,3667.8 %
4Europe710,486,3137.3 %
5Northern America425,200,3684.4 %
6Oceania57,376,3670.6 %

www.worldometers.info

Population by Subegion in Africa (2024) - Worldometer

List of subregions (areas) in Africa ranked by population, from the most populated. Growth rate, median age, fertility rate, area, density, population density, urbanization, urban population, share of world population.
There we go.
Comprehensive list of African nations/polities by region for people still brainstorming, and a couple other snippets.
I'll work on a region over the weekend.
 
Sudan
Grows its own food just fine. Less than 20% of its arable land area is currently under cultivation
Oil exports began in 1999.
I expect them to survive the Collapse just fine as a nationstate, but possibly struggle as petroleum is deprecated as a source of fuel.

And Libya, which would have been engaged in civil war as the gust front of the Collapse hit, and is basically a petrostate with oil representing around 60% of their GDP. And allegedly only produce 25% of their own food domestically.
AND has major water issues.

Sudan is basically an Egyptian vassal right now, and produces a lot of their meat, so I basically expect them to survive and remain firmly attached to Egypt,

Libya might be invaded by Egypt like they did last year IRL to help bring an end to the civil war. And might also turned into another "ally" of regional power Egypt.
 
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Sudan is basically an Egyptian vassal right now, and produces a lot of their meat, so I basically expect them to survive and remain firmly attached to Egypt,
Ill take your word for it.
I dont know all that much about modern Sudan, and Im not in reach of reference material.
Libya might be invaded by Egypt like they did last year IRL to help bring an end to the civil war. And might also turned into another "ally" of regional power Egypt.
I was actually kinda assuming that Libya was still a hotspot, given the GM's comments about the EU and Russia fighting for influence in the Med.

Egypt and Turkey battling over influence in the state with proxies, and Alexander subtly stirring the pot to keep the two of them distracted, and occasionally using it to funnel arms into both Italy to the north and West and Central Africa when he began to worry about subsaharan Africa as a mediumterm threat to Russian hegemony.
 
In lieu of the death Chad's dictator and how France has just shrugged when the dictator's son illegally claimed power, along with the coup in Mali that was just shrugged at, I was thinking that the western Sahel is probably not going to be one of the regions in Africa that weather the Collapse okay. I assume that Nigeria would be fully occupied with dealing with things in its borders during the height of the Collapse (actually the way uju32 puts it makes me think that a revolution might be likely), while France will be a violently divided government at that time.

The French-dependent Sahel states are already struggling against opposition groups, secessionists, and jihadists, and the dictators in power are usually supported by western powers fretting about insurgents. I honestly could see that the Sahel states may undergo a full collapse and whatever replaces them may be completely different than their modern counterparts. ECOWAS might be able to help, but I think that most of the more stable ECOWAS nations will be busy trying to keep their own states from collapse to interfere. Once the worst of the Collapse passes by, I assume most of the coastal west African states will be okay, but I honestly don't know if Mali, Chad, and Niger will survive at all.
 
In lieu of the death Chad's dictator and how France has just shrugged when the dictator's son illegally claimed power, along with the coup in Mali that was just shrugged at, I was thinking that the western Sahel is probably not going to be one of the regions in Africa that weather the Collapse okay. I assume that Nigeria would be fully occupied with dealing with things in its borders during the height of the Collapse (actually the way uju32 puts it makes me think that a revolution might be likely), while France will be a violently divided government at that time.
Nigeria doesnt do revolutions, Nigeria does coup attempts.
And the last one was about two decades ago.
I expect Nigeria to eventually end up in the power vacuum that France's disruption leaves by default.

The French-dependent Sahel states are already struggling against opposition groups, secessionists, and jihadists, and the dictators in power are usually supported by western powers fretting about insurgents. I honestly could see that the Sahel states may undergo a full collapse and whatever replaces them may be completely different than their modern counterparts. ECOWAS might be able to help, but I think that most of the more stable ECOWAS nations will be busy trying to keep their own states from collapse to interfere. Once the worst of the Collapse passes by, I assume most of the coastal west African states will be okay, but I honestly don't know if Mali, Chad, and Niger will survive at all.
Jihadist funding and arms become much less without the Saudi Wahhabist faction to serve as an ideological basis

Note that some of those nations have identities older than modern nations.
Mali is older than France and even now remains a food exporter to neighboring nations. Chad and Niger are more marginal.
ECOWAS will probably get involved, eventually, but ECOWAS is not historically a proactive organization.

Niger in particular is going to be Nigeria's problem.
 
@AKuz

I think that an Egypt that's in a position to control Sudan and Libya properly is starting to edge over into "Alexander gets nervous and starts trying to find ways to curb their influence" territory.

He wants allies- probably can't get as far as he has without a bunch of ambitious nations complicit in his rise to global power for their own reasons, even, any more than the United States did in the 20th century.

But he doesn't want to be an enabler for the rise of new superpowers, especially new superpowers in a position to veto his best access route to the world ocean.

Something to consider.
 
First Draft on Africa - North Africa 1
All right.

So, most of the commentary thus far has been on Egypt. That'll make as good a starting point as any for specific countries.

Furthermore, we're going to break this process up. I dunno if we're all aware of this, but Africa is kind of fucking massive. So what I want to do is take it in chunks. Let's break it down piece-by-piece, and then at the end we'll put those pieces together and smooth out the edges.

For now, let's begin with North Africa -- not as conventionally defined, but defined as those parts of Africa relevant to the passage of maritime trade through the Red and Mediterranean Seas -- the only part of Africa still within easy reach of competition from Europe and Russia. As usual, this is all very low-confidence. My grounding is bad, I know my grounding is bad, don't take any of this as a confident proclamation. I'm fumbling, here, and everything is open for discussion. With that being said:
  • North Africa
    • Egypt
      • I see two options here.
        • Egypt is a regional power, having managed to transition its food production to attain local self-sufficiency of crucial foodstuffs. With the obliteration of the Middle East right next door, Egypt was able to move relatively unimpeded in its immediate surroundings. It did have to come to terms with Alexander, of course, who would have wanted access to the Suez guaranteed. The rise of pan-Arabism, although it remains a minority movement with no powerful backers in the Middle East itself, presents an opportunity, if Egypt feels like taking it and is willing to piss off Alexander in addition to a struggle at home; it's not exactly popular in Egypt at the moment, so while the opportunity is there for them to become the backer and beneficiary the movement needs to become a motive force rather than just the source of another militant faction shooting at Russian PMCs, it won't necessarily be their first option. Regardless of that, however, with Sudan already fairly friendly, they have the beginnings of a power bloc. In this scenario, they may one of several factions attempting to establish interests in Libya.
        • Egypt was not able to make the transition, and in between that and the collapse of its and the international economy, it entered a state of severe strife. If Egypt hits this point, then Alexander intervenes. As he promoted a friendly Hijaz client, he would promote a friendly power able to operate the Canal. However, he would take the opportunity to thoroughly enmesh Egypt within the Russosphere. In this scenario, Egypt is far too dependent on Russia to promote its own interests. It's working on it -- of course it is -- but it's not there yet.
    • Sudan
      • Realistically, the way this shakes out depends on which course Egypt takes.
    • Libya
      • IRL, the second civil war had its ceasefire last year. In the trash fire of the Collapse, that would likely not happen; Trump kicks off events in 2019. I expect that Libya would be a country devastated by civil war. It would be a relatively soft target for those trying to spread influence in the region; I do not know to what extent it has things people would want.
    • Tunisia
      • An American ally and an associated nation to the EU; not somebody well equipped to withstand the Collapse. I'm certain that there are cool things to be done with Tunisia from so potentially blank a slate, but I know little about it. What sorts of things could happen to this country?
    • Algeria
      • A significant fossil fuels producer servicing Europe. They do not have rosy prospects, with Alexander about. That large military isn't going to remain affordable in the environment of the Collapse. That said, the two nations do enjoy quite friendly relations. With the power balance in Europe shifting to Moscow, Algeria might look to assist Alexander; after all, the chance to ride the oil market all the way to the bottom would offer plentiful profits to ride out the worst of the chaos.
    • Morocco
      • While Morocco also has good trade relations with Russia, Alexander is a big believer in the maxim that in order for there to be a winner, there must be a loser; and Morocco and Algeria have plenty of disputes. Russia supporting Algeria during an escalation to open conflict could sour those good relations, and thus leave Morocco all too happy to fall back in with the EU once they climbed to their feet, thus threatening Alexander's access to the Strait of Gibraltar, should things deteriorate.
    • Western Sahara
      • God man I don't know maybe Algeria gets Russia to back it in supporting the SADR help me out here.
    • Eritrea, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Somalia
      • Not precisely all of a piece, but this region is all significant for the same reason: proximity and significance to the Bab al-Mandeb Strait. Ethiopia is the strongest local power, but a potential Egyptian-Sudanese axis could check it, and as the Tigray conflict shows, Ethiopia is not precisely a bastion of stability as things stand. A fairly high-leverage investment for Russia, perhaps -- support the local government as a fulcrum for Russian interests in the region. The region has a history of conflict, but recent years have shown a trend for peace. Shame about the Collapse. I need insight here in particular to determine the shape of things.
 
Huh I wonder if in the chaos of the collapse Morocco would go after Gibraltar if Spain was shook up enough and with the UK collapsing so they could get a strangle hold on the pillars?

I also imagine Ethiopia has reclaimed Eritrea or at least tried to wether they are holding it is up for debate. As for Somalia that whole edifice has probably collapsed and they are in an all our brawl between the various groups there and what passes for the various governments.
 
Okay. North Africa. I am assuming we are using the UN definition?
Let's start with the basics.

Alexander's priorities are going to be control over the Suez Canal amd the Strait of Gibraltar.
Everyrhing else is secondary.
That means either bringing Egypt and Morocco into the Russosphere or making them irrevelant.
I feel like Morocco is less important due to distance, the existence of Gibraltar itself (which Russia undoubtedly seized), and the Strait's lack of necessary maintenance.
 
I'll shift my focus back to North Africa a bit, probably expound a bit more on Libya since I've been reading a lot of articles about the civil war lately.
 
I like Egypt as a smaller Japan/India- Russia's junior partner and enforcer in North Africa.

Ethiopia could splinter in the Collapse (it has 80 ethnolinguistic groups, several of which are large enough to conceivably break away), while hyper authoritarian Eritrea would probably have zero compunctions snuggling up to Russia and guaranteeing the Bab al-Mandeb. I could see them trying to annex the Tigre region of Ethiopia (they speak the same language as the dominant ethnic group in Eritrea) and possibly Djibouti with Russian prompting as it has long played host for non-Russian power projection in the region.
 
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