BrokenAscendent
Unum prae omnibus aliis
- Location
- Auld Lang Syne
Type Moon General
Mizu
Software Developer
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
He's pretty cute as a girl. I particularly like the one of her in casual clothes.
- Location
- Ireland
Isn't that just a alt Illya.
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Isn't Gudako/Ritsuka basically a canon genderbent Shirou design (and Gudao/Rituska a canon genderbent Rin)?
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
What if Shiki summoned Shirou!
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
What if Shirou summoned Shiki, who was the Servant???
...but no seriously, that might work. Shiki and Arc work with Zelretch to hatch a mad scheme to give Shiki a body with a brain that won't explode due to the ever-increasing power of his eyes - that of an incarnated Servant. All they have to do is work some Marble Phantasm bullshit to cheat Shiki into being summoned as a Servant, then win the Fuyuki war. It should have been simple. Shenanigans ensue when he's summoned by Shirou instead of Arcueid due to the resonance of their mutual Harem Protagonist EX overriding the influence of Avalon on the summoning in the shed.
Mizu
Software Developer
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
Would that work? If so, wouldn't that mean him becoming a vampire would also work for that purpose? Admittedly neither are particularly easy to do, and the latter a coin-flip for anyone not having Satsuki's massive innate potential.
Seihai-kun
[Unverified Wish Granting Device]
- Location
- Brasil
They're more likely to go through an increasingly zany scheme to use one of Touko's puppets than dealing with any Servant bullshit.What if Shirou summoned Shiki, who was the Servant???
...but no seriously, that might work. Shiki and Arc work with Zelretch to hatch a mad scheme to give Shiki a body with a brain that won't explode due to the ever-increasing power of his eyes - that of an incarnated Servant. All they have to do is work some Marble Phantasm bullshit to cheat Shiki into being summoned as a Servant, then win the Fuyuki war. It should have been simple. Shenanigans ensue when he's summoned by Shirou instead of Arcueid due to the resonance of their mutual Harem Protagonist EX overriding the influence of Avalon on the summoning in the shed.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Well, becoming a Dead Apostle has its own set of issues. Ciel, for one. It might also drive his Nanaya instincts berserk.
Would she even help them? She'd probably take one look at Shiki's stolen glasses and flip out, then flip out even harder if Shiki slips up and calls Aoko 'sensei.'
Seihai-kun
[Unverified Wish Granting Device]
- Location
- Brasil
Again, zany scheme.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
True. It'd make for a more interesting story than the Servant thing, probably.
The problem is, being summoned as a Servant has "die" as a fundamental prerequisite. You can't really bypass that. Maybe you could move Shiki into a different brain if Arc could somehow replicate the Third with Marble Phantasm -- but a) Touko can't even make an arm which can compete with Ryougi for purity, never mind a brain; b) even if it worked that sort of body-hopping shenanigan is the sort of thing that usually turns you into some sort of vampire, I think.
*laughs in Merlin*
BrokenAscendent
Unum prae omnibus aliis
- Location
- Auld Lang Syne
You can also pull a Prelati and Die but then not be dead.
E: although, they could just go through the grail war the normal way with the wish: Give shiki a brain/body that won't explode.
E: although, they could just go through the grail war the normal way with the wish: Give shiki a brain/body that won't explode.
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Merlin's here on his own dime. Independent Manifestation is a Beast-tier Skill that permits a whole lot of rulebreaking.
Shiki... well, Tohno Shiki doesn't have access to that degree of hax. Even Ryougi doesn't, really; only 「Ryougi Shiki」 could feasibly just decide to be somewhere/when else and make it so.
This is definitely easier. Relatively speaking.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Well, Shiki does have the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. He could probably stab something on himself that lets him count as being dead while not actually being dead.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Couldn't summoning a potent enough Caster shortcut most of that anyway?
I mean I wouldn't want to be the one that tries to stop Ciel and Arcueid from going catalyst hunting
And someone like Paracelsus or Medea could likely easily deal with the situation.
Vanargand
So tired.....
BEAST-III L REMATCH
I think Prelati is more of a case that it completely abandoned the human order in some way and thus its human self 'died'
Or its Prelati's memories installed into a eldritch abomination thus it's Prelati but not to the Human Order?
We don't know really but I remember something about Merlin and Prelati having the same 'teachers' (lake), Prelati's NP having something to do with the Sunken City of R'lyeh and with Ishtar running around in turbo bitch mode there might be an expansion on the whole 'bunrei' thing and if it really counts as the same existence
Like say is Amaterasu dies would Tamamo also die?
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BrokenAscendent
Unum prae omnibus aliis
- Location
- Auld Lang Syne
Honestly I have no clue but I would love for typemoon to get more into the whole "summoning 'demons' " thing Caster Gilles would do and the city of R'lyeh, if its even a physical place.
You never know with these demons.
I've occasionally made mention of this concept here and there, so I thought I'd write it up for my own amusement.
Though he's basically invincible, he still probably loses to Counter Guardian Taiga...?
True Name: Gilgamesh
Class: Beast VII
Parameters
STR B / END B / AGI B
MAN A / LUK B / NP EX
Once upon a time, in the far far future, the King of Heroes was summoned and incarnated 「for the first time」, in the last Grail War that World or any Adjacent would ever see. There he found to his disgust and anger that not a single human he could find in all the world had 'meaning' in themselves, that not a single one could be said to be 'essential' for their or anyone else's life. Rather than challenge the certainties of economics and sociology that had lead to that point, rather than face down the inevitability of a humanity from which all truly necessary occupations had been eroded away, he accepted that inevitability as unconquerable and turned his fangs upon Humanity itself.
The first and greatest King of Heroes, now the final great filter standing between Humanity and the stars. The last of Humanity's 'destined endings', the last of the rings of restraint chaining its potential. The seventh and final Beast; Beast VII, the VII of the End, who presides over the Sin of Boredom.
Class Skills
Independent Manifestation (A+) -- The uncompromising ego and self-possession of the King of Heroes, taken to a ridiculous new extreme. Not merely his own death or existence, even the management of his position in time and space will not be permitted to anything but himself. His overbearing will and arrogance refuses to be limited to a single nation, time era, or even World, and naturally he will certainly not politely die when killed. Though this Skill raises his resistance to instant-death attacks to the maximum, it seems that that is still the most likely means of defeating him...?
Authority of the Beast (A) -- In the case of the King of Heroes, this authority stems from his use of the Original Language, and of course from his acknowledged place as the once King of all Humanity during his life.
Self-Modification (E) -- As with all Beasts his Rank in Independent Manifestation permits him to modify his own existence without concern for loss of support from the Human Order. However, the basis of his Independent Manifestation is uniquely unsuited to self-modification; he has no real means to enact such changes other than perhaps searching his Gate for transformative potions; and given his ego and personality, he is unlikely to see changing himself to any meaningful extent as be a productive solution anyway. As such, his Rank in this Skill is as low as possible.
Personal Skills
Nega-Legend (A) -- The King of Heroes is himself the cornerstone and foundation of all future Epics and all future Legends; naturally, they cannot raise a hand against him. Cancels the result of any effect that receives a legend bonus, or that originates from a 'living hero of legend'.
Charisma (-) -- Sealed. As someone who has declared war on the entire rest of Humanity, this Skill cannot be used.
Divinity (B) -- Fundamentally, a divinity cannot be interfered with by Mysteries below its Rank. Certain Skills may contest this.
Golden Rule (A) -- Even without intentionally taking action, gold still piles up in his treasury. The infinite wealth of the first and final King. Made brutal use of in his Noble Phantasm.
Noble Phantasm
Sha Naqba Imuru ～ All the Curses of the World
Rank A++ Anti-"Particular Target" Noble Phantasm
The absolute unfairness of the King of Heroes, for the first and only time untempered by his own arrogance. Gilgamesh faces the only foe that could ever make him serious: the focused attention of the entire Human Order at once. As such, he has permitted himself access to his own full power. With his eyes that see through the deeps (Sha Naqba Imuru), he pulls precisely the right weapon or tactic from his infinite vault for the precise enemy before him and implements it mercilessly without fail.
Not strictly speaking a single Noble Phantasm, but rather a collection of 108 billion such Phantasms - one custom designed for the worst possible 'compatibility' for each human who has ever lived. Though, just as his treasury does not contain individual Phantasms but rather 'the root of human wisdom' itself, this Phantasm calls forward not any particular weapon but rather 'the certainty of defeat' itself. A Curse-type Noble Phantasm that can be evaded only by great Luck.
Though he still retains access to the Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth, the direct use of such against the Human Order is a plan with too many weaknesses to exploit and better options exist against any lesser threat, so it is generally left unused.
Class: Beast VII
Parameters
STR B / END B / AGI B
MAN A / LUK B / NP EX
Once upon a time, in the far far future, the King of Heroes was summoned and incarnated 「for the first time」, in the last Grail War that World or any Adjacent would ever see. There he found to his disgust and anger that not a single human he could find in all the world had 'meaning' in themselves, that not a single one could be said to be 'essential' for their or anyone else's life. Rather than challenge the certainties of economics and sociology that had lead to that point, rather than face down the inevitability of a humanity from which all truly necessary occupations had been eroded away, he accepted that inevitability as unconquerable and turned his fangs upon Humanity itself.
The first and greatest King of Heroes, now the final great filter standing between Humanity and the stars. The last of Humanity's 'destined endings', the last of the rings of restraint chaining its potential. The seventh and final Beast; Beast VII, the VII of the End, who presides over the Sin of Boredom.
Class Skills
Independent Manifestation (A+) -- The uncompromising ego and self-possession of the King of Heroes, taken to a ridiculous new extreme. Not merely his own death or existence, even the management of his position in time and space will not be permitted to anything but himself. His overbearing will and arrogance refuses to be limited to a single nation, time era, or even World, and naturally he will certainly not politely die when killed. Though this Skill raises his resistance to instant-death attacks to the maximum, it seems that that is still the most likely means of defeating him...?
Authority of the Beast (A) -- In the case of the King of Heroes, this authority stems from his use of the Original Language, and of course from his acknowledged place as the once King of all Humanity during his life.
Self-Modification (E) -- As with all Beasts his Rank in Independent Manifestation permits him to modify his own existence without concern for loss of support from the Human Order. However, the basis of his Independent Manifestation is uniquely unsuited to self-modification; he has no real means to enact such changes other than perhaps searching his Gate for transformative potions; and given his ego and personality, he is unlikely to see changing himself to any meaningful extent as be a productive solution anyway. As such, his Rank in this Skill is as low as possible.
Personal Skills
Nega-Legend (A) -- The King of Heroes is himself the cornerstone and foundation of all future Epics and all future Legends; naturally, they cannot raise a hand against him. Cancels the result of any effect that receives a legend bonus, or that originates from a 'living hero of legend'.
Charisma (-) -- Sealed. As someone who has declared war on the entire rest of Humanity, this Skill cannot be used.
Divinity (B) -- Fundamentally, a divinity cannot be interfered with by Mysteries below its Rank. Certain Skills may contest this.
Golden Rule (A) -- Even without intentionally taking action, gold still piles up in his treasury. The infinite wealth of the first and final King. Made brutal use of in his Noble Phantasm.
Noble Phantasm
Sha Naqba Imuru ～ All the Curses of the World
Rank A++ Anti-"Particular Target" Noble Phantasm
The absolute unfairness of the King of Heroes, for the first and only time untempered by his own arrogance. Gilgamesh faces the only foe that could ever make him serious: the focused attention of the entire Human Order at once. As such, he has permitted himself access to his own full power. With his eyes that see through the deeps (Sha Naqba Imuru), he pulls precisely the right weapon or tactic from his infinite vault for the precise enemy before him and implements it mercilessly without fail.
Not strictly speaking a single Noble Phantasm, but rather a collection of 108 billion such Phantasms - one custom designed for the worst possible 'compatibility' for each human who has ever lived. Though, just as his treasury does not contain individual Phantasms but rather 'the root of human wisdom' itself, this Phantasm calls forward not any particular weapon but rather 'the certainty of defeat' itself. A Curse-type Noble Phantasm that can be evaded only by great Luck.
Though he still retains access to the Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth, the direct use of such against the Human Order is a plan with too many weaknesses to exploit and better options exist against any lesser threat, so it is generally left unused.
Though he's basically invincible, he still probably loses to Counter Guardian Taiga...?
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Vanargand
So tired.....
I mean Gil says he is willing to be a North Wind to kick humanity's ass into gear and we know humanity survives if he wins in Stay Night and Gil probably would know how to cull mankind without triggering Alaya but he never went 'Mankind is a mistake erase them all'
But yeah hed be disgusted with the humans of Tsuki no Sango where people are dying out of sheer boredoom
But yeah hed be disgusted with the humans of Tsuki no Sango where people are dying out of sheer boredoom
Yeah, I dunno. I feel like Gil did make the same fundamental mistake as Goetia did: when faced with 'the inevitable result of humanity's progress', rather than challenge the 'inevitability' he turned his fangs on humanity.
Well, I don't think he'd completely try to wipe out humanity either -- but a) I'm not sure that you need to to qualify as a Beast, and b) even if you did, it's possible that he's just intentionally trying to cull the lamest timelines that would otherwise 'succeed', or something.