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Type Moon General

Vanargand said:
Altera Larva Noble Phantasm

Its kinda funny and sad that Extella gets all those fancy photon Rays and Larva doing a Setsuna Cosplay while FGO is just that advancing stab...which is part of Extella combo finishers. Welp that's what ya get when Altera debuts in FGO first I guess
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I'm a little disappointed that the first and likely only DLC character for Extella is just another version of Altera, but I'll admit it's adorable how she calls out Nero and Tamamo's names when she's using attacks based on them.
 
Squirtodyle said:
I'm a little disappointed that the first and likely only DLC character for Extella is just another version of Altera, but I'll admit it's adorable how she calls out Nero and Tamamo's names when she's using attacks based on them.
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Now that you mention it

>Raised by Nero and Tamamo

Good thing Hakuno is around otherwise Seifar the Sequel would be a possibility
 
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Vanargand said:
Altera Larva Noble Phantasm

Its kinda funny and sad that Extella gets all those fancy photon Rays and Larva doing a Setsuna Cosplay while FGO is just that advancing stab...which is part of Extella combo finishers. Welp that's what ya get when Altera debuts in FGO first I guess
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I don't know what that move is when she starts firing NP-style beamu without actually using her NP (a new thing in Extella Link?) but it's legit adorable how she can't quite handle the Photon Ray so she's audibly just like "WAHHH SHIT" and she has to skid and drag on it to stop at the end of her NP animation, but wew lad every single thing about her conceptually is a greasy trainwreck.
 
Altera Loli looks like a magical girl, she's only missing a transformation sequence now.
 
Ferian said:
> Raised by two Beast candidates

Sefar is the least of their worries, I think.
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Sefar might actually Surpass the Beasts in terms of danger.

It would utterly fuck our modern civilization atleast, and probably the grand majority of magi too... Unless Ol zel feels up to pulling out the moon pushing mana cannon again.
 
ninjafish said:
Sefar might actually Surpass the Beasts in terms of danger.

It would utterly fuck our modern civilization atleast, and probably the grand majority of magi too... Unless Ol zel feels up to pulling out the moon pushing mana cannon again.
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Sefar got oneshotted by Excalibur and any timeline in which Sefar succeeds would be pruned anyway.

Beasts can actually cause severe, lasting damage to the entire Human Order, and off the top of my head both had far greater defenses than Sefar's. Sefar's could be explicitly bypassed by Excalibur and Vasavi Shakti, and presumably any other weapon that worked along the same lines as them. Compare Beast II and I, where Tiamat was immune to anything from Man and Star Servants, anything below A++ rank, and couldn't die unless she was the last living thing on the planet, and Goetia was immune to anything from any Servant and literally couldn't die until Solomon pulled off Ars Nova.

That being said, Zelretch would fail against Sefar. Using something like his turbo Moon cannon thing seems like it'd slot right into the "product of intelligence" that Sefar absorbs.
 
Squirtodyle said:
Sefar got oneshotted by Excalibur and any timeline in which Sefar succeeds would be pruned anyway.

Beasts can actually cause severe, lasting damage to the entire Human Order, and off the top of my head both had far greater defenses than Sefar's. Sefar's could be explicitly bypassed by Excalibur and Vasavi Shakti, and presumably any other weapon that worked along the same lines as them. Compare Beast II and I, where Tiamat was immune to anything from Man and Star Servants, anything below A++ rank, and couldn't die unless she was the last living thing on the planet, and Goetia was immune to anything from any Servant and literally couldn't die until Solomon pulled off Ars Nova.

That being said, Zelretch would fail against Sefar. Using something like his turbo Moon cannon thing seems like it'd slot right into the "product of intelligence" that Sefar absorbs.
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It got one shot by Excalibur planetary defense mode, not its normal state.

also quite frankly, the moon canon was literally just a giant beam of energy... Excalibur and Shakti works explicitly because they are just raw power.
 
ninjafish said:
It got one shot by Excalibur planetary defense mode, not its normal state.

also quite frankly, the moon canon was literally just a giant beam of energy... Excalibur and Shakti works explicitly because they are just raw power.
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And if Sefar came again, why do you think Excalibur wouldn't be in planetary defense mode...?

Zelretch's Moon Cannon thing was explicitly the result of him using a Mystic Code, a product of intelligence, coupled with a special magic circle, a product of intelligence, to fire an "Ether Cannon". Sefar is dangerous because it absorbs anything that is the product of intelligence, no matter how basic or undeveloped it is.

Maybe you could argue that Zelretch's thing could work, even if I don't believe it would, but even then A) he can't use that kind of power anymore after his thing with Crimson Moon, and B) why would you assume he's capable of matching Excalibur's output when it's meant to be the strongest thing ever on the planet?
 
Squirtodyle said:
And if Sefar came again, why do you think Excalibur wouldn't be in planetary defense mode...?

Zelretch's Moon Cannon thing was explicitly the result of him using a Mystic Code, a product of intelligence, coupled with a special magic circle, a product of intelligence, to fire an "Ether Cannon". Sefar is dangerous because it absorbs anything that is the product of intelligence, no matter how basic or undeveloped it is.

Maybe you could argue that Zelretch's thing could work, even if I don't believe it would, but even then A) he can't use that kind of power anymore after his thing with Crimson Moon, and B) why would you assume he's capable of matching Excalibur's output when it's meant to be the strongest thing ever on the planet?
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Excalibur is a sword, by default a "Product of intelligence" and yet it's giant fuck off energy beam worked fine.
 
ninjafish said:
Excalibur is a sword, by default a "Product of intelligence" and yet it's giant fuck off energy beam worked fine.
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It was made by the planet itself, it's not a product of civilization or anything like that. Certain things created by certain beings seem to bypass that restriction, seeing as how Excalibur and Vasavi Shakti explicitly work on Sefar, while the Sword of Mars did not. Or, admittedly, did and just wasn't powerful enough. It's been a long time since I've played Extella.

But yeah, wanking Zelretch to the point that he could defeat something that's explicitly compared to the Sun in terms of pure power IIRC because he once pushed back the Moon at the cost of a lot of his power and health is a bit weird.
 
biscuitz1 said:
Actually, IIRC there is one CE in GO that at least implies alaya can speak and communicate, so I dont exactly see gaia being any different.
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Alaya is the collective consciousness of humanity. Gaia is a giant rock. I'd imagine that they'd have slightly different methods of thinking, considering that one is made up of human thoughts and the other is made up of a mind-boggling amount of rock.
 
GilliamYaeger said:
Alaya is the collective consciousness of humanity. Gaia is a giant rock. I'd imagine that they'd have slightly different methods of thinking, considering that one is made up of human thoughts and the other is made up of a mind-boggling amount of rock.
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Point, but one has to have some amount of cognizance to actively call out for the other planets and make a beast of gaia.
 
GilliamYaeger said:
Alaya is the collective consciousness of humanity. Gaia is a giant rock. I'd imagine that they'd have slightly different methods of thinking, considering that one is made up of human thoughts and the other is made up of a mind-boggling amount of rock.
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Well, now you've just made me sad that the official way that Sefar lost wasn't a caveman wielding a fairy-made guitar and shredding out some sick riffs until Sefar was destroyed :V
 
Squirtodyle said:
It was made by the planet itself, it's not a product of civilization or anything like that. Certain things created by certain beings seem to bypass that restriction, seeing as how Excalibur and Vasavi Shakti explicitly work on Sefar, while the Sword of Mars did not. Or, admittedly, did and just wasn't powerful enough. It's been a long time since I've played Extella.

But yeah, wanking Zelretch to the point that he could defeat something that's explicitly compared to the Sun in terms of pure power IIRC because he once pushed back the Moon at the cost of a lot of his power and health is a bit weird.
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The Sun vastly exceeds the Earth in power so neither Excalibur or VS should work then. Sefar being compared to the Sun in power was always kinda weird, because the point of comparison was actually Amaratsu. I am...unclear about how powerful Amaratsu is within the cyberspace of the Moon Cell vs outside of it, but I assumed that it meant "Sun" in the same way Ishtar fires "Venus" at the world in her noble phantasm. If not...I mean, A, what the fuck Nasu how do those numbers work, B, why is Amaratsu fucktons stronger then the Planet, and C, isn't Amaratsu supposed to be a Beast anyways?

The description of how Sefar's energy absorption works gave me the impression that while pure magical energy is absorbed as well it also does damage, and that its true value is lolnoing conceptual stuff like Gae Bolg. Heck, VS is a weapon created by a god, so by that definition alone it should fail under your standards.

The True Magics at least theoretically can take Types on, so its not too far fetched to assume one could repel Sefar. Speaking of Notes, though, would using Slash Emperor on Sefar work or would it just result in accidentally feeding the entire planet to it at once?
 
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Soulgazer said:
The description of how Sefar's energy absorption works gave me the impression that while pure magical energy is absorbed as well it also does damage, and that its true value is lolnoing conceptual stuff like Gae Bolg. Heck, VS is a weapon created by a god, so by that definition alone it should fail under your standards.
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Pure magical energy is absorbed but does damage, that's correct, but it also flat out says that anything that's the product of intelligence or civilization will be absorbed, regardless of whether it's technology or magecraft or anything else.

Regardless of whether or not it should fail, the fact is that we have a direct statement from Gilgamesh saying it would not fail. I can't pretend to know Nasu's mindset, but the fact is that the only thing shown to be capable of defeating Sefar is Excalibur in full on "Don't Fuck With My Planet" mode. Even VS only works on the first form Sefar, and I really doubt that even at full power it'd work on anything beyond maybe the third or fourth form.

I just don't see how using at least two things that are clearly products of intelligence and civilization (Mystic Codes and magic circles) would result in an attack that Sefar can't no-sell, and to be honest I'm just kind of leery of anything that says that Zelretch could slaughter any problem he feels like because True Magic.
 
Squirtodyle said:
Pure magical energy is absorbed but does damage, that's correct, but it also flat out says that anything that's the product of intelligence or civilization will be absorbed, regardless of whether it's technology or magecraft or anything else.

Regardless of whether or not it should fail, the fact is that we have a direct statement from Gilgamesh saying it would not fail. I can't pretend to know Nasu's mindset, but the fact is that the only thing shown to be capable of defeating Sefar is Excalibur in full on "Don't Fuck With My Planet" mode. Even VS only works on the first form Sefar, and I really doubt that even at full power it'd work on anything beyond maybe the third or fourth form.

I just don't see how using at least two things that are clearly products of intelligence and civilization (Mystic Codes and magic circles) would result in an attack that Sefar can't no-sell, and to be honest I'm just kind of leery of anything that says that Zelretch could slaughter any problem he feels like because True Magic.
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Zelretch cant take on anything anymore, he had one shot and use it to waste brunestead.
 
Squirtodyle said:
Pure magical energy is absorbed but does damage, that's correct, but it also flat out says that anything that's the product of intelligence or civilization will be absorbed, regardless of whether it's technology or magecraft or anything else.

Regardless of whether or not it should fail, the fact is that we have a direct statement from Gilgamesh saying it would not fail. I can't pretend to know Nasu's mindset, but the fact is that the only thing shown to be capable of defeating Sefar is Excalibur in full on "Don't Fuck With My Planet" mode. Even VS only works on the first form Sefar, and I really doubt that even at full power it'd work on anything beyond maybe the third or fourth form.

I just don't see how using at least two things that are clearly products of intelligence and civilization (Mystic Codes and magic circles) would result in an attack that Sefar can't no-sell, and to be honest I'm just kind of leery of anything that says that Zelretch could slaughter any problem he feels like because True Magic.
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VS not working on higher forms would be a result of Sefar just being too much and not a byproduct of its absorption skill. Stage 1 is already A+ in all parameters, and just increases 10fold with every level up (again, Nasu what the fuck numbers) I'm not saying that VS should fail, but that the fact that it doesn't means that "pure energy of the planet" isn't the only thing that works. Vasavi Shakti is a lightning spear created by Indra, if it works then a part of the puzzle is missing here.
 
Excalibur and Vasavi work because they're just raw destructive magical energy essentially. Wasabi is just destructive force to the point that it can kill gods. Excalibur is just simply an amplifier of magical energy taken to 11.

If you want to kill Velber you need something that isn't civilization/intelligence derived, and/or raw energy.

Amaterasu is only stronger than say Arc in Extra due to how the information world elevates stuff like that above the natural phenomena they're based on.

Fate Extra Mats said:
Incidentally, in the world of EXTRA where the information world (digital) takes precedence over the physical world, she is no longer the strongest.
This is because in the information world legend becomes reality, and natural phenomena that have been incarnated as "Gods" can often hold more power than their original natural existence does.
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Some neat? Stuff from the Prillya rerun in FGO



(If you have EMIYA)

Miyu: So I was stared at by this red, brown...male Kuro. Huh...he walked away, smirking.

Sapphire: Must be a criminal scum. Let's report him.


 
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