Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America

[Fanhunter696]

Plus, with how responsive we've been to issues the people have had previously and how we've kept Morale consistently above average, there's a lot of public trust in the Council right now that if they say an action is truly necessary, it probably is.

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We should probably do both [] Captain, Officers and Priest and [] What about the dead ? ASAP though... That way we could mitigate some of the possible things that the assembly could consider forbidding if we establish an official politics about some of the most "sensible" affairs....

 

[Chimeraguard]

We should probably do both [] Captain, Officers and Priest and [] What about the dead ? ASAP though... That way we could mitigate some of the possible things that the assembly could consider forbidding if we establish an official politics about some of the most "sensible" affairs....

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Yeah, I have Captain, Officers and Priest scheduled for next spring. What about the dead? is something I want to make sure we have things studying the Freed done (along with figuring out what's up with the Silent Blades) so that we're making a more informed decision when the time comes.

Choose the Funerary Practices of Union, you may choose as many of the following options as you want.

When a person dies, they may be…
-[][Practices] Buried and… (choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets)
--[] Subjected to the greater Riter of Eternal Repose (mutilations)
--[] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings
-[][Practices] Brough to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
–[][ Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose beforehand (bindings and amulets)
--[] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
–[] Brough without Rites
[][Practices] Write-In

If multiple practices are chosen, the decision of witch to take will be given to…

[][Executor] The Summer Kin of the deceased (direct family)
[][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
[][Executor] Their Chosen heir/representant
[][[Executor] By the deceased themselves, interrogated by a Death Singer
[][Executor]Write-In

Who, if any, can overrule the chosen funerary practices ?

[][Veto] The Council (simple majority)
[][Veto] The Assembly (One third vote)
[][Veto] The Captain
[][Veto] Write-In

What will be the punishment for unlawful practices ?

[][Punishment] Expulsion from the Assembly/Council (1 year)
[][Punishment] Expulsion from the Assembly/Council (10 year)
[][Punishment] Hard labor (1 year)
[][Punishment] 10 lash
[][Punishment] 20 lash
[][Punishment] Lose of funerary rights (Write-In witch body will decide how the guilty person will be treated after death)
[][Punishment] Write-In

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Okay, so this choices has the widest spread of options and will need quite a bit of discussion.

I think the primary thing we do when a person dies should probably be joining Deadtown? It's what happened to the Colonist and Winter Walker dead, it's what was done to the Unchained dead, so we've already set up the precedent. I suppose we could also offer the alternative of Buried + Lesser Rite of Eternal Repose.

Hmm, for the Executor choice, I feel like I'm leaning on the Deceased themselves whenever possible? The Deceased are provably sapient and maintain a level of continuity from their living selves. It does feel like they have the right to decide what happens to them, or at least that their opinion should be considered. The downside I suppose is that in high-casualty events, it's liable to tie up a lot of our Death-Singing dice just communicating with the Dead. Additionally, it grants a significant degree of power to Death Singers should we have any in the future who are willing to misinterpret what the Dead want.

Alternatively, Winter Kin seems the most appropriate, as the nature of the Dead, and the most likely causes of Death, are brought about by Winter. You might live in the same house and have the closest blood relations with your Summer Kin, but your Winter Kin are the ones who you're expected to fight and, most pertinently, die alongside. The concept of Winter Kin itself began as a way of helping to manage through the losses that Winter inflicted on the various peoples who became the Unionfolk.

Overruling of funerary practices, I feel if anyone should have the right, it ought to be the Mourners who spend most of their time interacting with the dead, but if it's only the Dead who make the decision anyway, it's again giving the Mourners/Death-Singers a lot of power over the Dead. To some degree I think it's unavoidable given that the Death-Singers are going to be the ones most closely interacting with them, but it's still something that I think needs to be considered. Maybe it'd be somewhere where the Assembly, Council, or Captain can veto the Mourners' decision if it is heavily opposed? But I'm not sure...

EDIT: Alternatively, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Vetoing the funerary rights for someone is something that I feel would primarily be necessary if the Dead in question represents a clear danger to the larger community if made Awake or otherwise left with whichever chosen funerary rite occurs.

Punishment for Unlawful Practices. Well, here's the way I see it. There's a couple different significant ways that unlawful practices can go:
1) By not following the procedures of either the Rites or giving the Dead to Deadtown, it's endangering the soul of the Dead to Winter's predations and overall damage to Winter and the Fugue (not to mention giving Winter another resource to use against us.) This punishment I think should at least be similar to that of willful endangerment of a living person.
2) Using the Greater Rite of Eternal Repose on an unwilling and non-malevolent Dead. The Greater Rite is permanent and cannot be undone, and as it is only done on the worst criminals of the Freed, I would say its use should be restricted likewise to the most evil or followers of Winter. Using it in other circumstances I think ought to have a similar penalty to murder.

 

[butchock]

Do cave bears still exist at this time? I wonder which projects would lead to training them as guards or as cavalry.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

Do cave bears still exist at this time? I wonder which projects would lead to training them as guards or as cavalry.

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I mean with a previous roll stated there's megafauna but there not widespread as before so it could be a regional thing cause there could be cave bears but there not here in Virginia though in a previous winter there was a mammoth thrall of the now fallen rogue eyesvines so there's a mammoth herd running around near union so I think that takes more attention than solitary mega bears but that's still good to look up when were more prepared.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Okay, might as well set up some initial plan drafts so there can at least be some discussion.

[ ] Plan Equivalent Exchange
-[ ][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
-[ ][Reform] Power of Law
-[ ][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[ ] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
--[ ] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
-[ ][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
-[ ][Veto] The Captain
-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.


[ ] Plan Maximize Morale
-[ ][Training] not, let them rest. They will need all the strength they can in Winter.
-[ ][Reform] Power of Law
-[ ][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[ ] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
--[ ] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
-[ ][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
-[ ][Veto] The Captain
-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.

[ ] Plan Power of Decision
-[ ][Training] not, let them rest. They will need all the strength they can in Winter.
-[ ][Reform] Power of Decision
-[ ][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[ ] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
--[ ] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
-[ ][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
-[ ][Veto] The Captain
-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.

Okay, so I assume that we're gonna decide on one way to treat our dead that won't change no matter our decision for Training or Reform, so here's 3 Plans that are just variations of that. One where we do a full-complete of Champions and Power of Law to make up for the Morale cost, one where we do Power of Law and leaving Champions uncompleted to maximize morale, and one where we only do the Power of Decision level. Though I suppose I could also do a 4th Plan of just giving the Power of Veto, but I feel like we can trust the Assembly with more power than that, and a part of me would honestly rather that an action be forbidden from the start rather than us finding out it's Veto'd partway through the plan and so the dice put on it end up being wasted.

Now to justify my Funerary Rites Choices:

So, up until now, we've been making sure all the Dead are brought to Deadtown. The initial Colonist and Native dead were the ones who eventually formed Deadtown. What dead happened afterwards were also brought to Deadtown. The Unchained dead were also taken to Deadtown (and we did that despite a -5 Morale penalty.) We've already set up a precedent that our Dead go to Deadtown, no exceptions. So I say we ought to continue that, and regardless of which rite is chosen, they go to Deadtown.

Now, whenever they're sent, they obviously shouldn't be sent unprotected (or at least, that's how I feel.) They can either go through the Rite of Eternal Repose to sleep away until some later date under the protection of their awake compatriots, or have been subjected to the Rite of Awakenings so they can be among the rest of the Freed (@OldShadow at the moment I'm assuming that most of the Freed who aren't sleeping under the Eternal Repose or equivalents can be considered "Awake." Am I right on this?)

Which decision is made is a choice to be made by the Winter Kin of the Deceased. The Winter Kin are the support network and defensive group during Winter, which is the most likely cause of death and the reason we have to deal with this mess in the first place. You might have the closest blood ties to Summer Kin, but Winter Kin are the people who you'll be struggling, fighting, and dying alongside. So it feels fitting that they are the ones who handle your Funerary Rites.

The alternative would be the Deceased themselves translated through a Death-Singer, but our knowledge of Death-Singing is still imperfect, and it puts a lot of power in the hands of the Death-Singers that they would have the potential to misinterpret, and would lack the personal connection to the deceased that the Winter Kin would have, so right now I'm leaning on the Winter Kin.

Veto Power I, after a lot of back and forthing and angst, eventually decided to give to the Captain. Vetoing the Funerary Rites of someone is not something to be done lightly, and I eventually decided it should be the Captain's decision if given at all. Sara Smith, as the first Captain, has already set a precedent of being the middleman(well, woman) between Union and the supernatural. Sara was the first one to commune with the dead and found the Mourners, Sara is the one who negotiated with the Eyeless Lord, Sara is the one who we're advised to send to negotiate with the Mistmen when the time comes, etc. The Captain, it seems, is most likely to be the go-between for Union of the (more or less) mundane humans and Union of the Supernatural, and so is the best suited to decide when a certain Funerary Rite would cause significant problems and so requires a veto.

Punishment is something I've spent the past half-hour banging my head against a wall. Expulsion from the Council if they're on it ended up being pretty easy to decide. Councilors did swear that oath that they're supposed to serve impartially, and I'd say that oath is violated if not in letter, then at least in spirit if they go against the laws and rites of Union like that. Corporeal punishment in a public setting was also a common punishment in early Colonial America, and given how important relations between the Dead and Living are for Union, I do want to make sure that Union is taking Funerary practices dead (pardon the pun) seriously. But I'm not completely sure on the exact form that should take. I would definitely appreciate any feedback on the point here.

 

[Hunter531]

Okay, so I assume that we're gonna decide on one way to treat our dead that won't change no matter our decision for Training or Reform, so here's 3 Plans that are just variations of that. One where we do a full-complete of Champions and Power of Law to make up for the Morale cost, one where we do Power of Law and leaving Champions uncompleted to maximize morale, and one where we only do the Power of Decision level.

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I don't think we should decide on what Assembly reform we want based on Morale though. This is a decision that will have a massive effect in the long term, so we probably shouldn't let short-term benefits into it all that much.

 

[Chimeraguard]

I don't think we should decide on what Assembly reform we want based on Morale though. This is a decision that will have a massive effect in the long term, so we probably shouldn't let short-term benefits into it all that much.

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Yeah, but I'm overall leaning on somewhere on the higher grade of Assembly reforms, though I'm not sure on which. We've generally made it a significant goal to follow popular will anyway, and the additional autodice (which I feel are most likely to be put on popular projects or on relatively basic/nondangerous stuff) would be great for the action economy. Plus, it may be less problematic for us if very unpopular actions are forbidden instead of veto'd. At least if they're forbidden we won't end up taking them and finding them being veto'd partway through the turn, which might result in the dice involved being wasted.

Our Captain is also of all the choices among the best at increasing Morale, which helps handle any potential morale costs from taking unpopular decisions. And I'd say there's a high amount of trust between the general population of Union and the Council and other leadership, since the latter have been pretty responsive to the mandates of the People, while the former have responded quite well in accepting the increase in supernatural phenomena.

 

[trooperist]

We should have also gotten our first crop of tobacco. Though looking back at the spring update we already got the morale boost from it.

Is there anything special it can do?

 

[Hunter531]

Yeah, but I'm overall leaning on somewhere on the higher grade of Assembly reforms, though I'm not sure on which. We've generally made it a significant goal to follow popular will anyway, and the additional autodice (which I feel are most likely to be put on popular projects or on relatively basic/nondangerous stuff) would be great for the action economy. Plus, it may be less problematic for us if very unpopular actions are forbidden instead of veto'd. At least if they're forbidden we won't end up taking them and finding them being veto'd partway through the turn, which might result in the dice involved being wasted.

Our Captain is also of all the choices among the best at increasing Morale, which helps handle any potential morale costs from taking unpopular decisions. And I'd say there's a high amount of trust between the general population of Union and the Council and other leadership, since the latter have been pretty responsive to the mandates of the People, while the former have responded quite well in accepting the increase in supernatural phenomena.

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My concern is with the prioritization system. If it forces us to use large numbers dice on what amount to porkbarrel projects, we could be in quite a spot of bother.

 

[Sa'kage]

The winter coming marching onto town, gusts of winds cold enough to shatter a man, as it stops. All underneath it, starting to gnaw upon themself, as the Winter speaks. In tones that drives men mad and makes them into monsters


"Is that a Junjito ito town....Never mind, I'm not touching that at all"

 

[Hunter531]

@Chimeraguard, do you think it would be worthwhile to spend an omake question on the consequences of these actions? I do have a few OOC questions saved for a rainy day, but I'd like your input before pulling the trigger.

 

[Chimeraguard]

My concern is with the prioritization system. If it forces us to use large numbers dice on what amount to porkbarrel projects, we could be in quite a spot of bother.

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It depends on how the prioritization system works. When working on the Mandates, so far the people have been pretty satisfied so long as it's clear that we're working on the problem. I can understand the concern though, which is part of why a part of me is leaning more on Power of Decision.

Though, for me part of the issue is that depending on how the prioritization system works it may make it harder for me to make all these big plan drafts before the next turn even drops, which is one of the things I find fun in a PlanQuest.

@Chimeraguard, do you think it would be worthwhile to spend an omake question on the consequences of these actions? I do have a few OOC questions saved for a rainy day, but I'd like your input before pulling the trigger.

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Mmm...I feel like we ought to be able to ask about what the prioritization system would entail without needing an OOC Question. @OldShadow could you maybe provide as much detail on how "priority" will work if we go with that reform as you're willing to without requiring an OOC Question?

And while we're in this conversation, what are your thoughts on the appropriate punishment for using the unlawful practices for funeral rites? I feel they ought to be at least somewhat severe given how important the relationship with the Dead is for Union.

 

[OldShadow]

[

[][Practices]: The deceased should be brough and buried or interred in Deadtown.
-[] The lesser Rite of Eternal Repose will be performed by deafult, but the person can request while alive for the greater version or no ritual to be performed instead.
-[] The funeral ceremony will be left to the deceased's Summer Kin's discression, so long as it remains within reason.

@OldShadow does this make sense?

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Yes

@OldShadow A couple of questions:

Is there any difference between having very unpopular actions Vetoed rather than Forbidden?

And how would the "A priority will be assigned to actions each turn." be implemented in the turn? Something like the Mandates?

And finally, are we going to have any info on which projects the Automatically assigned die will be assigned each turn?

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Vetoed mean you could possibly do the action later, Forbidden mean no way in hell unless something big happen.

Their will be projects with the High Priority and Very High Priority tags added, to indicate witch is witch, and their will be consequences if thoses projects are left to fallow.

The automatically assigned die will have their assignement indicated each turn, before a plan for the turn is voted.

Now, whenever they're sent, they obviously shouldn't be sent unprotected (or at least, that's how I feel.) They can either go through the Rite of Eternal Repose to sleep away until some later date under the protection of their awake compatriots, or have been subjected to the Rite of Awakenings so they can be among the rest of the Freed (@OldShadow at the moment I'm assuming that most of the Freed who aren't sleeping under the Eternal Repose or equivalents can be considered "Awake." Am I right on this?)

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Yes, they are mostly Awakes, however most of them spend time either in a state of limited autonomy (think how people are when they are drunk or very tired) or staying immobile to spare their energy and better stave off the Fugue.

We should have also gotten our first crop of tobacco. Though looking back at the spring update we already got the morale boost from it.

Is there anything special it can do?

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It count as an herb and will help some rituals, beyond morale effects and serving as a potential trade goods. The Occult love drugs.

Mmm...I feel like we ought to be able to ask about what the prioritization system would entail without needing an OOC Question. @OldShadow could you maybe provide as much detail on how "priority" will work if we go with that reform as you're willing to without requiring an OOC Question?

And while we're in this conversation, what are your thoughts on the appropriate punishment for using the unlawful practices for funeral rites? I feel they ought to be at least somewhat severe given how important the relationship with the Dead is for Union.

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Ever red the soviet plan quest, were projects can have (high priority) and (very high priority), and bad things tend to happen if they are not worked on ? It is that system.

"Appropriate punishments" is a question of point of view. They are people (mostly newcomers) who would like nothing but a slap on the wrists, others (part of the Winter Walkers) that want death or banishement.
The options proposed in the results are a rough average of the people's opinion.

 

[Chimeraguard]

"Appropriate punishments" is a question of point of view. They are people (mostly newcomers) who would like nothing but a slap on the wrists, others (part of the Winter Walkers) that want death or banishement.

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Ahaha, that's awkward. I was actually trying to ask @Hunter531...

EDIT:

Vetoed mean you could possibly do the action later, Forbidden mean no way in hell unless something big happen.

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But while this is here, might as well ask if you'd be willing to provide an example or two of projects currently available to us that would be Veto'd or Forbidden should those options be chosen.

 

[OldShadow]

Ahaha, that's awkward. I was actually trying to ask @Hunter531...

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Well, my bad

 

[Hunter531]

Ever red the soviet plan quest, were projects can have (high priority) and (very high priority), and bad things tend to happen if they are not worked on ? It is that system.

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I read some of it years ago, but quit part way through due to all the unpleasantness inherent in being in charge of a Five Year Plan in Stalinist Russia. What can I say, I don't enjoy playing the villain, and that QM was too damned good at injecting pathos into the results descriptions. I can't recall the system you described though, and can't be totally certain if the 3 extra morale and two dice which we don't get to assign would be worth the added headaches. That being said, I still find it rather doubtful.

Ahaha, that's awkward. I was actually trying to ask @Hunter531...

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Hmm, not sure. I'm too tired to make definitive recommendations at the moment, but perhaps increase the lashes from 10 to 20?

 

[Chimeraguard]

Ever red the soviet plan quest, were projects can have (high priority) and (very high priority), and bad things tend to happen if they are not worked on ? It is that system.

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I read some of it years ago, but quit part way through due to all the unpleasantness inherent in being in charge of a Five Year Plan in Stalinist Russia. What can I say, I don't enjoy playing the villain, and that QM was too damned good at injecting pathos into the results descriptions. I can't recall the system you described though, and can't be totally certain if the 3 extra morale and two dice which we don't get to assign would be worth the added headaches. That being said, I still find it rather doubtful.

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Actually, I think the Priority system was for GDI PlanQuest, not Soviet PlanQuest. Or at least if it was in SovietQuest, it was a lot more prominent in GDIQuest.

Hmm. I'm generally inclined to lean on the harsher end of the scale for screwing with funerary rites, though it's awkward since we went with a fairly light punishment for the Councilors breaking their oaths. But too late now, we'll figure things out.

@OldShadow So, to repeat my earlier question, would you be willing to provide examples of currently available projects that would be so unpopular that they'd be veto'd or forbidden?

 

[Chimeraguard]

Moratorium's up, so...

Edit: Actually, on second thought, it's probably better to wait until we have more info on what sort of actions will be veto'd/forbidden before we start voting. I currently lean on Power of Decision as a nice balance between giving the Assembly teeth and providing us with more dice, but also making sure we maintain the ability to keep to our own priorities for most of our dice.

 

[OldShadow]

@OldShadow So, to repeat my earlier question, would you be willing to provide examples of currently available projects that would be so unpopular that they'd be veto'd or forbidden?

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For now, I think only creating new Mindless Dead would be unpopular enough to get vetoed. Using and/or taking over existing Mindless is mostly seen as an unpleasant but necessary thing.
Another thing (mostly the opposite) would that the Winter Walkers are going to campaign HARD for Union to raid the Tribute Takers.
That should be everything for now.

Also, yes, the moratium is over.

 

[Chimeraguard]

[X] Plan Power of Decision
-[X][Training] not, let them rest. They will need all the strength they can in Winter.
-[X][Reform] Power of Decision
-[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
--[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
--[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
-[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
-[X][Veto] The Captain
-[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[X] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

Hmm, yeah I think I'll lean on Power of Decision. Good balance as described above, and the sort of things that would get prohibited so far seem to be the sort of lines we don't want to be crossing anyway.

I should note that the Punishment thing is still in Flux and liable to be updated. A fairly harsh punishment plus eviction from the Council seems like the best for the way Union is developing. I want to specify an amount of time though, and the possibility of other punishments being a better way to get the point across.

Would really appreciate other Quester feedback on this.

 

[Fanhunter696]

Would really appreciate other Quester feedback on this.

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Well, the funeral part seems right... I am personally thinking about giving the Assembly the Power of Law, because I think that the Trade-Off would be worth it, because we are going to go hard on Tribute Taker Raiding this year anyway and, because the QM told us that giving more power to the Assembly would help the unhardened dice to survive

Another thing (mostly the opposite) would that the Winter Walkers are going to campaign HARD for Union to raid the Tribute Takers.

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Besides that, I think we should get the Chapions done, Champions seem like something awesome to have, and we have very few Unchained dice, so I am voting for Equivalent exchange...

 

[DracoDracul]

[X] Plan Power of Decision

 

[Fanhunter696]

Well this is my favorite Plan, I think that giving the legislative power to the Assembly would be a worthy trade off, and we want the Champions before Winter hits

[X] Plan Equivalent Exchange

Besides that @OldShadow Shouldn't Failure have taught us one of its arts?

Allow transmission of Failure's arts. Even if this action is not taken, an automatic roll at no cost will take place in 1 turn. What art will and may be transmitted will be determined at random.

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And what would be the difference regarding the integration of the new colonists between Power of Decision and Power of Law?

 

[OldShadow]

Well this is my favorite Plan, I think that giving the legislative power to the Assembly would be a worthy trade off, and we want the Champions before Winter hits

[X] Plan Equivalent Exchange

Besides that @OldShadow Shouldn't Failure have taught us one of its arts?


And what would be the difference regarding the integration of the new colonists between Power of Decision and Power of Law?

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The roll will take place next turn
Integration depend on how well they deal with Winter, no matter the choice.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

[X] Plan Equivalent Exchange