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Try to survive the Winter: A planquest in Fantasy Colonial America

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Personally, I don't have any great ideas for harsher punishments but I do think there's an angle in punishments emphasizing spiritual contrition. Public Indenture helping the mourners with their tasks, or being obligated to serve in the rituals of Awakening for the dead for a certain length of time (given there's going to be relatively constant demand to help stave off the Fugue rather than one time demands) fines that are taken in the forms of votive offerings or grave goods for the dead.

Realistically the real offenders are going to be the Newcomers, coming from a lack of understanding and their own traditions. Ideally the punishment should force them to confront the implicit Covenant Union has with the dead and why that's so important. Force them to uphold the more unsettling practices so that the demands for specific funerary rites becomes both less of a sticking point and more understandable.
 
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Hmm, that's a good point. I had the idea of altering the "one year hard labor" punishment to a year spent working assisting the Freed in Deadtown. Could think on implementing something similar to that.

EDIT:
-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[ ] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

Thoughts? @OldShadow where does this move the punishment on the slide? I imagine the idea of having to work alongside the dead would massively freak out the Newcomers, but what about the rest of Union?
 
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I think that's a good idea. I also have another idea of the Union establishing a program of sorts educating newcomers about what's unique about Union like the Winter, the dead, their religion, the culture surrounding thise things, and why things are the way there are.

With this, misunderstandings could be rooted. Though, this is probably a low priority project.
 
I'm more than willing to alter my own plans, but I'm really hoping for the suggested extension to come into play so Fanhunter has time to look over the proposal and edit his variant of my plan.

Because the more I think about it, the more I want that period of rehabilitative work for the Dead to be involved.
 
I extended the vote duration.
You van ask OOC questions, but I have a right of veto.
Chimeraguard said:
Hmm, that's a good point. I had the idea of altering the "one year hard labor" punishment to a year spent working assisting the Freed in Deadtown. Could think on implementing something similar to that.

EDIT:
-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[ ] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

Thoughts? @OldShadow where does this move the punishment on the slide? I imagine the idea of having to work alongside the dead would massively freak out the Newcomers, but what about the rest of Union?
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Freak out the Newcomers, would be weird and take time to adapt for everyone else.
In particular, the Unchained have far less experience with peacefull undead.
 
Hmm, if we're moving the punishment from corporeal to more "rehabilitative" so to speak, I wonder if the number of lashes should be reduced back to 10. Though, would that have any real meaningful effect?

Unfortunate that it would freak out Newcomers, but I suppose there's nothing really for it.

As for everyone else, they can add it to the list of several hundred other weird things they've needed to adapt to when living in Union.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Hmm, if we're moving the punishment from corporeal to more "rehabilitative" so to speak, I wonder if the number of lashes should be reduced back to 10. Though, would that have any real meaningful effect?

Unfortunate that it would freak out Newcomers, but I suppose there's nothing really for it.

As for everyone else, they can add it to the list of several hundred other weird things they've needed to adapt to when living in Union.
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With 10 lashes, people would be able to walk and work faster, even if it would make the punishment less...impacting.
Remenber people, 50 lashes cripple, 100 kill.
 
Hmm...does anyone else have thoughts on the 10 lashes vs 20? This is liable to be one of the last chances to comment, since I'm going to bed and once I wake up will read through everything and then start making the changes.
 
Hmm, in that case, @Fanhunter696 since your plan is winning, you can pick one of these two to be the new Punishment.

-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[ ] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

-[ ][Punishment] 10 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[ ] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

Only difference is the amount of lashes, but either has the important step of setting up the spending the year not in the Assembly working for the Dead.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Hmm, in that case, @Fanhunter696 since your plan is winning, you can pick one of these two to be the new Punishment.

-[ ][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[ ] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

-[ ][Punishment] 10 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
--[ ] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.

Only difference is the amount of lashes, but either has the important step of setting up the spending the year not in the Assembly working for the Dead.
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It is done already, I picked the 20 year Punishment...
 
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by OldShadow on Jun 5, 2024 at 7:17 PM, finished with 95 posts and 20 votes.
    • [X] Plan Power of Decision with Champions
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      --[X] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.
      [X] Plan Power of Decision
      -[X][Training] not, let them rest. They will need all the strength they can in Winter.
      -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      --[X] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.
      [X] Plan Equivalent Exchange
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Law
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      [X] Plan Power of Decision
      -[X][Training] not, let them rest. They will need all the strength they can in Winter.
      -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      --[X] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.
      [X] Plan Power of Decision with Champions
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      --[X] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.
      [X] Plan Equivalent Exchange
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Law
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      [X] Plan Power of Decision with Champions
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Decision
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      --[X] Additionally, the year in which they are expelled from the Assembly shall contain a sentence of service and duty to Union's covenant with the Dead. From assisting the Mourners in their tasks to working for and assisting the Freed within Deadtown.
      [X] Plan Equivalent Exchange
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Law
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
      [X][Reform] Power of veto
      [X][Punishment] Hard labor (1 year)
      [X] Plan Equivalent Exchange
      -[X][Training] Complete the Champions project through…intensive training [-6 Morale]
      -[X][Reform] Power of Law
      -[X][Practices] Brought to Deadtown and…(choose as many suboptions as wanted)
      --[X] Subjected to the lesser Rite of Eternal Repose (bindings and amulets) OR
      --[X] Subjected to the Rite of Awakenings beforehands
      -[X][Executor] The Winter Kin of the Deceased (extended family unit/defensive clan/neighborhood)
      -[X][Veto] The Captain
      -[X][Punishment] 20 lashes, expulsion from the Council if they are on it with a barring from Council candidacy for a period of two years, and a temporary expulsion from the Assembly for a period of one year.
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  • Voting
    • And next up, Winter Comes.

    ...Say, something I just realized. @OldShadow we had a roll for the War in the Woods this Spring, but not for Summer or Autumn. Is the War in the Woods only rolled once a year (maybe because after that first rolls things transitioned into a siege), or an error?

    Oh, also, what did Old Paths trigger for us this turn? I don't think it said in the Results.
     
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    Chimeraguard said:
    And next up, Winter Comes.

    ...Say, something I just realized. @OldShadow we had a roll for the War in the Woods this Spring, but not for Summer or Autumn. Is the War in the Woods only rolled once a year (maybe because after that first rolls things transitioned into a siege), or an error?

    Oh, also, what did Old Paths trigger for us this turn? I don't think it said in the Results.
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    Winter, my favorite season...

    War in the woods roll were hidden for the ongoing siege.

    It helped get you more herbs during gathering.
     
    I'm actually quite happy on how the punishment turned out. It has a nice mix of retribution and restitution, making it a nice mix of colonist and native ideas. European criminal law usually focusses more on punishing an individual, and Native American criminal law focusses more on restoring relations between groups.
     
    Whelp, let's see if our preparations were good enough for this hit…and that we don't suffer casualties…in a neutral ending for the quest the USA is basically a continent under siege with each states main capital suffering the wrath of winter, and its smaller towns/cities are basically treated more as outposts and resource gathering/production to keep it going.

    This basically makes the USA smaller population wise, but far more competent in military matters because each season brings a wrath unlike any other upon the nation.

    Add in different zones with winters unique branch of challenges…and a mostly wilderness despite colonization/building…the United stats of North America would be a brutal, harsh, and cold realm. Not by choice, but by need.
     
    Technically that's the north the south and the Midwest probably have there own horrors to deal with mostly evil summer for the south amd whatever hell is going on in the Midwest.
     
    I still think calling whatever future entity comes out of Union (assuming that's what happens) the "USA" is extremely inaccurate. The building block of any such federation is much more likely to be tribal-based rather than on prior Colonial governments that evolved in to the States, and overall much more of taking direct influence from the institutions of the Natives. The only real similarities I feel are going to be that there'll be a degree of Federalism and it will exist in the same general geographical area.

    I also object to it being more "brutal" or "harsh." Certainly there's going to be far more in terms of formalized creepy rituals interacting with the Dead, various Occult superentities, and occasional blood magic. But Union's also centuries ahead of the curve in terms of things like racial integration. The physical environment is more harsh, but I suspect that the governmental entity may not be.
     
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    Chimeraguard said:
    I still think calling whatever future entity comes out of Union (assuming that's what happens) the "USA" is extremely inaccurate.
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    OTL, USA is named such because there were 13 colonies that rebelled against Britain. As things are going, we are trying to prevent any new colonies being formed which would defeat the purpose of calling our nation "United States".
     
    Well, our goal at the moment is much more "survive", but long term I don't think we can actually stop new colonies from being formed. Sooner or later, someone in Europe is gonna try for another colony, and there's simply too much space along the coastline for us to actually stop them (also, we have nowhere near the military force if they come armed.)

    Instead I feel our goal when it comes to future colonies is to be in a position as a regional hegemon such that we can integrate them into our web of alliances and influence and ensure that they don't become more servants of Winter and preferably get them to identify with the Unionfolk-centered alliance of people in the Americas struggling against Winter rather than as loyal colonists of whatever European power they came from.

    Though I'm sure sooner or later we're gonna run into conflict with some colony or expedition over how much Union has "gone native."
     
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    Chimeraguard said:
    Well, our goal at the moment is much more "survive", but long term I don't think we can actually stop new colonies from being formed. Sooner or later, someone in Europe is gonna try for another colony, and there's simply too much space along the coastline for us to actually stop them (also, we have nowhere near the military force if they come armed.)

    Instead I feel our goal when it comes to future colonies is to be in a position as a regional hegemon such that we can integrate them into our web of alliances and influence and ensure that they don't become more servants of Winter and preferably get them to identify with the Unionfolk-centered alliance of people in the Americas struggling against Winter rather than as loyal colonists of whatever European power they came from.

    Though I'm sure sooner or later we're gonna run into conflict with some colony or expedition over how much Union has "gone native."
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    eh I don't think we have to worry about settlers. Winter already showed us what happens to unprepared settlers. we barely survived because we had the union with the WW, the racist powers of Europe will probably won't be as lucky.
     
    AndrewPandrew27 said:
    eh I don't think we have to worry about settlers. Winter already showed us what happens to unprepared settlers. we barely survived because we had the union with the WW, the racist powers of Europe will probably won't be as lucky.
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    Don't underestimate the European powers.

    We already know that they are willing to work with (exploit) the native population to get what they want, as shown in what is happening in South America. Race and racism is not fully established yet, so they are more likely to subsume 'pagan' beliefs in order to convert them. Sort of like what Union is doing only with more Europeanization.
     
    If nothing else, one of the possible ways for the Johnstown Colonists to have survived was "And then we fought and fought and fought until we killed all the monsters." Another European expedition with a greater military presence could end up doing something similar. Or taking the Dark Arts route and selling out to dark powers, and then we get to deal with the combo of European power & steel and black magic.
     
    On the other hand, the European powers are about to be really busy for the next three decades and not have the money or manpower to spare for well armed colonies.

    And in this timeline, Britain doesn't get to sit on the sidelines eating popcorn.
     
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