[X] Plan: Discovery
-[X] Name it Rosetta, after the stone that allowed 18th Centrury OE archaeologists to read the ancient Egyptian language.
-[X] The peaceful exploration of space and the stars.
[X] OPLAN: Marathon
-[X] Write-in: Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
-[X] Write-in: SWS doctrine should focus on peaceful exploration and the defense at all cost of the alliances we build in other systems and the peoples we discover.
-[X] Write-in: SWS doctrine should focus on peaceful exploration and the defense at all cost of the alliances we build in other systems and the peoples we discover.
Huh. That's radical. It priotizes the defense of other polities over Home itself. On the other hand, it is easy to exploit to justify conquest, by just saying 'we will wage war on you, because your people yearn to break your shackles and join us'. Plus, it adds the usual problem with focusing on exploration, in that due to the slowness of communications, we'll quickly run into soft-borders beyond which we're getting to cover our map, but we can't maintain proper interactions with these far-off polities.
I'd much rather see a focus on protection of trade and infrastructure, but if that doesn't gain traction I'll just switch to power projection.
EDIT: To avoid being just negative, I do like that it does at least mention defense, which allows us to build warships. Interstellar Monitors are perfect for the stated purpose, so I'd be a consolation.
Huh. That's radical. It priotizes the defense of other polities over Home itself. On the other hand, it is easy to exploit to justify conquest, by just saying 'we will wage war on you, because your people yearn to break your shackles and join us'. Plus, it adds the usual problem with focusing on exploration, in that due to the slowness of communications, we'll quickly run into soft-borders beyond which we're getting to cover our map, but we can't maintain proper interactions with these far-off polities.
I'd much rather see a focus on protection of trade and infrastructure, but if that doesn't gain traction I'll just switch to power projection.
EDIT: To avoid being just negative, I do like that it does at least mention defense, which allows us to build warships. Interstellar Monitors are perfect for the stated purpose, so I'd be a consolation.
I'll freely admit it's a little bit of a "Pax Romana" solution, but I think it's in line with my character's goals and those of the service so far-an open hand in an armored glove, more or less, with an end goal of being a free society that keeps people safe and stable without being a conquering empire. Also, it prioritizes both exploration and the development of expeditionary squadrons to be based farther afield-people like the Novans need our help, after all, and the Lancer and Bodkin will make that possible.
Peace through overwhelming might so that no one can challenge us? I wanted to be a bit more indirect about it, but we can be flexing our muscles more.
BTW, Lancers and Bodkins don't work with that doctrine. Paradoxically, it could be justified within the doctrine I advocate, but your doctrine calls for more Interstellar Monitors.
EDIT: Eh, it's getting late, I'll need to switch:
[X] Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
[X] The projection of power beyond our own borders.
[X] Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
[X] The projection of power beyond our own borders.
BTW, Lancers and Bodkins don't work with that doctrine. Paradoxically, it could be justified within the doctrine I advocate, but your doctrine calls for more Interstellar Monitors.
Yes, long range multirole strike craft with the capability to act in a limited ISR/C3 and close support role as well as project force superiority are notoriously bad at both defense of outlying geography and covering large amounts of territory quickly in a way that in peacetime would be conducive to civilian exploration of Earth. That's why the USAF's latest air superiority fighter is a 2,000 foot long blimp wrapped in ceramic plate armor with a battery of 105mm cannons mounted on it, and why NASA doesn't fly a single U-2 to this day or borrow the X-37 for orbital research.
Peace through overwhelming might so that no one can challenge us? I wanted to be a bit more indirect about it, but we can be flexing our muscles more.
BTW, Lancers and Bodkins don't work with that doctrine. Paradoxically, it could be justified within the doctrine I advocate, but your doctrine calls for more Interstellar Monitors.
Monitors are terrible for any kind of power projection or defense beyond Home or possibly next door because they're expensive, so we can't have many of them, and are also cripplingly short-ranged.
Alas, with the Marathon doctrine as written, it's the Monitors that would need to be build. You want defense at all costs, even at the expense of defending Home. You want alliances that can't be broken. You outright referenced Pax Romana. Monitor fits those criteria the beat. If you said "intervene to defend" or "patrol", you could've justified Lancers, but instead we'll need to build Monitors and station them in allied systems.
I did not say this. Defense of our allies at all costs, by default, includes Home-we cannot send people out to defend others if we can't defend ourselves. Take NORAD in our real lives, for example-defending Canadian airspace kept the US safe from nuclear attack for 75 years, and still does today-we don't need to sacrifice one to accomplish another.
Alas, with the Marathon doctrine as written, it's the Monitors that would need to be build. You want defense at all costs, even at the expense of defending Home. You want alliances that can't be broken. You outright referenced Pax Romana. Monitor fits those criteria the beat. If you said "intervene to defend" or "patrol", you could've justified Lancers, but instead we'll need to build Monitors and station them in allied systems.
It could well be that I'm interpreting things in too rigid of a fashion and for that I can apologize. In this case, we're imposing rules on ourselves, so I'd appreciate it if we took care to make the intent match the wording.
I dislike the peaceful exploration bit because...ultimately we do build warships, and we know of at least one autocratic power in the neighborhood. So it's important! But it's a little early to be building Starfleet until we know what the neighborhood is like.
[X] Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
[X] The projection of power beyond our own borders.
-[X] Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
-[X] We should ensure the protection of our trade networks, and look to expand our economic partners.
I feel the protection and expansion of our trade networks would be desirable for the politics of Home, and allow us to be able to influence outside our own borders, without necessarily being pulled into wars.
Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Aug 8, 2024 at 3:09 AM, finished with 44 posts and 15 votes.
[X] Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
[X] Plan: Rock! Exploration!
-[X] Name it 'Rockcut' for the way the cities on the surface are built.
-[X] The peaceful exploration of space and the stars.
[X] Plan: Discovery
-[X] Name it Rosetta, after the stone that allowed 18th Centrury OE archaeologists to read the ancient Egyptian language.
-[X] The peaceful exploration of space and the stars.
[X] OPLAN: Marathon
-[X] Write-in: Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
-[X] Write-in: SWS doctrine should focus on peaceful exploration and the defense at all cost of the alliances we build in other systems and the peoples we discover.
[X] Plan: Trade Expansion
-[X] Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache.
-[X] We should ensure the protection of our trade networks, and look to expand our economic partners.
What should we name -01,02? Name it Shambhala, after the spiritually enlightened land known in old Buddhist religious practice. This evokes the elaborate spiritual traditions of the pre-industrial world, as well as the knowledge recouped from the data cache. Our principal objective as a service is: the Peaceful Exploration of space and the Defence of our Alliances and Peoples via the Projection of Power beyond our own Borders.
The Meddling Civilians
While the past seven years have seen the Home Space Warfare Service go from strength to strength, it has also seen a great deal of deprivation for other branches of the Home government. Massive spending on our initial naval build-up has produced some level of deprivation for the people and for the other services and finally it is as the Citizens Council is discussing a tax that one of them lands on an actual idea; Why not simply cut the Naval budget? Billions of credits of money can be redirected into industrial growth, especially with the development of several out-system interests. After all, we've been at peace almost the entire time we've been exploring Interstellar space.
The Navy Budget per annum will now be 1,800 MCr. We wont be operating on a 'use it or lose it' basis to begin with, but an overly large surplus at the end of a year will lead to questions about whether the budget is too high.
This is not the only new expectation levelled at the service, however. While presenting a plan to the Citizens Council about the future of the Home Space Warfare Service, there is a brief discussion of the conversations surrounding what exactly the mission statement of the HSWS is. The Council hears both sides and presents a third, more ill-defined option: that the Service will explore peacefully, and encourage peace through Strength. It is fundamentally expected that the HSWS will be as much capable of projecting force into a sector as it is capable of discovering and exploring that sector in the first place.
This is the priority for the council, as it will best allow for the economic exploitation of new sectors of space. They are, of course, the senior most representatives of the largest corporations in Home space. What else would their Navy be for?
These are not the only expectations the Citizens Council has of the Service, just the most high level ones, nor the only expectations being levelled from behind closed doors. For example, within the next five years it is expected that the Home Space Warfare Service will:
- Develop a marine landing capability with the assistance and coordination of the City Militia and their Landing Infantry units.
- Further develop mineral exploitation platforms outside of Home and provisions security for these platforms.
- Maintain the security of the fleet and its technologies from internal and external enemies, wherever they might be found.
How exactly the Home Space Warfare Service manages this is up to its commanders and their aides, but these are what the citizens council desires. It is up to us how closely we align ourselves with them.
Naval Construction
While it will not be until the end of the year that our yards find themselves with space, we have 1,000Dtons available now and in eleven months we will have 11,000Dtons. Only the Diplomatic Courier will still be in the slips by years end, and we have a (reduced) budget to spend. It is unclear that we will be able to afford another Monitor or a ship of her scale without significant cost reductions - though, admittedly, a production grade jump drive will cost almost a third of the prototype model.
Various internal and external bodies make their arguments for a variety of ships, all of them modernised to take advantage of new, advanced drives:
- Steinbecks representatives considers the Interstellar Cruiser to be the ideal fighting platform, which presumably has nothing to do with the fact that they provide the main weapon systems for the class. The expansion of the cruiser force would strengthen the backbone of the fleet and allow more ships to operate in more areas, especially with the addition of the second Flotilla Logistics Ship.
- The Mengagalists believe that the defence of Home and our allied systems could be managed with Monitors and Defence Platforms. They argue that it is time to look inwards, to erect a wall of steel around our planets, and would encourage the construction of a major weapons station in Home at least. This would allow the fools in the scouts to go and survey new space without worrying about Home.
- The Ciwanans would, of course, prefer a 500 ton attack boat based on the Deep Space Surveyor or the System Defence Boat, but with just enough jump drive to take them to a target system. Perhaps, they wonder, it could use a drop tank to jump in and internal fuel to jump back out? That way they could prioritise missile or torpedo magazines without concern for range.
- Energence Heavy instead argues for the expansion of the scouting force to improve the rate at which we can discover and develop interests in new systems. After all, they are making plenty of money from mining an asteroid in deep space - why not more?
What should we build now? (Select up to 1k tons)
[ ] An Interstellar Cruiser (1k tons, circa 400MCr.)
[ ] A Fast Attack Craft (500 tons, circa 250MCr.)
[ ] Additional Deep Space Surveyors (500 tons, circa 200MCr.)
[ ] Additional Interstellar Surveyors (700 tons, circa 300MCr.)
[ ] Something else entirely (Write in)
What should we build in eleven months? (Select up to 11k tons)
[ ] An Interstellar Cruiser (1k tons, circa 400MCr.)
[ ] A Defence Platform built in one piece (2-3k tons, circa 5-800MCr.)
[ ] A Fast Attack Craft (500 tons, circa 250MCr.)
[ ] A third Flotilla Support Ship (4k tons, circa 1000MCr.)
[ ] Additional Deep Space Surveyors (500 tons, circa 200MCr.)
[ ] Additional Interstellar Surveyors (700 tons, circa 300MCr.)
[ ] Something else entirely (Write in)
Scouting Operations
Thus far, every scouting expedition has been an ad-hoc operation with various disparate forces that are pulled together for each mission separately. Some are instead arguing that there should be a permanent 'expedition flotilla' that is capable of conducting extended operations away from Home without needing the exacting oversight that such operations have required thus far. They would like for this force to be established to investigate the three systems detected to the 'East' and to then continue to exist after that fact, distributed as an office within the Home Space Warfare Service.
What does the Service make of this recommendation?
[ ] We would rather maintain this level of control.
[ ] Establishing an semi-independent scouting force on a permanent basis would speed up expansion dramatically.
[ ] Yes, but every operation requires authorisation from the highest levels. What should this force include? (Ignore if no is selected).
[ ] A DSS and an IS operating together.
[ ] A pair of DSS ships, with the IS reserved for specific duties.
[ ] A pair of IS ships, with the DSS reserved for deep space operations.
[ ] A flotilla support ship, two DSS ships and two IS ships for maximum capability.
[ ] Some other formation - write in.
Please present any votes as a plan. Voting opens at
The Council hears both sides and presents a third, more ill-defined option: that the Service will explore peacefully, and encourage peace through Strength. It is fundamentally expected that the HSWS will be as much capable of projecting force into a sector as it is capable of discovering and exploring that sector in the first place.
That's quite flexible of them. For us it means that there's no significant change for our build strategies, except perhaps that we ought to refit the Interstellar Cruisers with new jump drives, add drop tanks and lessen up the burden of the crew, so that our mainstain forces have increased range.
For example, within the next five years it is expected that the Home Space Warfare Service will:
- Develop a marine landing capability with the assistance and coordination of the City Militia and their Landing Infantry units.
- Further develop mineral exploitation platforms outside of Home and provisions security for these platforms.
- Maintain the security of the fleet and its technologies from internal and external enemies, wherever they might be found.
Reasonable. @4WheelSword What's the expectation about landing capabilities? How many marines we ought to be able to land at once? What does 'security of technologies' mean? Does that preclude sharing tech with our allies and building modern designs in S'taxu?
- Steinbecks representatives considers the Interstellar Cruiser to be the ideal fighting platform, which presumably has nothing to do with the fact that they provide the main weapon systems for the class. The expansion of the cruiser force would strengthen the backbone of the fleet and allow more ships to operate in more areas, especially with the addition of the second Flotilla Logistics Ship.
- The Mengagalists believe that the defence of Home and our allied systems could be managed with Monitors and Defence Platforms. They argue that it is time to look inwards, to erect a wall of steel around our planets, and would encourage the construction of a major weapons station in Home at least. This would allow the fools in the scouts to go and survey new space without worrying about Home.
Alas, this goes against the wishes of our political leaders for the moment, but perhaps we could squeeze in some defensive stations. @4WheelSword Those guys are cheaper, but require more tonnage that ships, rights?
- The Ciwanans would, of course, prefer a 500 ton attack boat based on the Deep Space Surveyor or the System Defence Boat, but with just enough jump drive to take them to a target system. Perhaps, they wonder, it could use a drop tank to jump in and internal fuel to jump back out? That way they could prioritise missile or torpedo magazines without concern for range.
That... That's more of an deterrence craft than a warship. It could be useful if our enemies knew that we've got them, can jump their system, release missiles at their worlds and jump out. Still, it's too much of a terror weapon for me.
- Energence Heavy instead argues for the expansion of the scouting force to improve the rate at which we can discover and develop interests in new systems. After all, they are making plenty of money from mining an asteroid in deep space - why not more?
Thus far, every scouting expedition has been an ad-hoc operation with various disparate forces that are pulled together for each mission separately. Some are instead arguing that there should be a permanent 'expedition flotilla' that is capable of conducting extended operations away from Home without needing the exacting oversight that such operations have required thus far.
Ehhh... Perhaps? I like planning these things by hand, but I could see letting them do their own thing.
EDIT: Quick draft of a plan. I should be cheap enough to bring our fleet to meet the requirement of more power projection and afterwards we could focus on building outposts, marine landers and the coveted multi-roles.
[ ] Plan IC Refit What should we build now? (Select up to 1k tons)
-[ ] An Interstellar Cruiser Mk. 2 (1k tons, ??MCr) – Should make use of the miniaturized jump drives and added drop tank fittings to extend its range to 2+2 jumps. The leftover space should be utilized to improve crew comforts and allow for longer deployments. Build one from scratch as a testbed for refitting old ICs. What should we build in eleven months? (Select up to 11k tons)
-[ ] 1x Marine Lander (1k tons, ??MCr) – The exact specs depend on how many marines we're expected to be able to land.
-[ ] 1x Deep Space Surveyor (500 tons, circa 200MCr.) – We've got three of them, it makes sense to build a fourth so that we can get two pairs of two.
-[ ] ?x Refit Interstellar Cruisers to Mk. 2 – As many as our funds would allow. What does the Service make of this recommendation?
-[ ] Yes, but every operation requires authorization from the highest levels. – So these guys don't get ideas about exploring Hermosa on their own. What should this force include? (Ignore if no is selected).
-[ ] A flotilla support ship, two DSS ships and two IS ships for maximum capability. – That's the perfect composition. It can go deep and cover lots of ground fast.
What should we build now? (Select up to 1k tons)
[ ] Something else entirely (Write in)-A test bed carrier. While it is understood that multiple goals are currently present, the carrier could fulfill at least one or two of them; Strengthening of the fleet and/or home system defense. And at 1k tons it would allow for a 'cheap' test-bed to discover the viability of a carrier and small craft force. The target ship should at minimum be capable of 2 jumps and carry differing size small craft to gauge the viability of each size. Namely 4 each of 20 ton, 30 ton, and 40 ton craft, 2 60 ton craft, and a singular 100 ton craft in a boarding/planetary assault role. Preference would be given to drone or remote operation capability of the small craft.
The sizes picked for the small craft are for certain breakpoints. Mostly speed and weapon load capabilities. Thoughts?
