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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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Magnificate said:
Anyways, we're already using 6K out of 8L tonnes of dockyard space. We'll likely finish building the current run of Interstellar Cruisers, perhaps one bigger logistical ship and that'll be all that we've got room for. This means, first, that we'll likely look at dismantling Interplantery Cruisers to make room for new designs, second, that we'll need to allow civilian and corporate interests into space to handle some of the burden. Of course, "Fuck You, Pay Me" that we established earlier still applies.
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To be honest I think we could do better things with the Cruisers than dismantling them, converting them into the aforementioned jump tugs might be prudent given they're 3 free 1,000 ton hulls that have the room for us to rip out it's offensive weapons for more advanced equipment. On the opposite end of that they're still well armored and have an impressive armament, ripping out the main engines and the jump drive to set them up as defense platforms in Home's Lagrange points is free defense right there.
 
For what it's worth, unless I've lost it, it was explicitly noted that our scout captains had received first contact training. It wouldn't be optimal, but we could absolutely just send a scout ship in.
 
The System Defense Destroyers still seem good to hold on to, but when we start building new defensive ships like we meant to, we're gonna be running up on our pilot cap and we'll need to do something with the chemical-drive IP Cruisers.
Maxin_inc said:
[...] ripping out the main engines and the jump drive to set them up as defense platforms in Home's Lagrange points [...]
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It makes sense that a static defense platform wouldn't need a pilot, so that'd be a nice way to avoid having to scrap perfectly good missiles.

[X] Plan Follow-Up

The buoys are a good idea. They can get the busywork of translating done and we can come back later to have a friendly conversation, whereas if we stick around the entire time trying to communicate, ships might arrive in gun range before communications could be established.
 
The thing is that unless we heavily invest in Deep Home as a base to explore to the Galactic North, or miraculously stumble into J2 drives- we need to go through one of these two systems to go anywhere or do anything. Given we're TL 8 and J2 drives are what- TL11? That's way too long to sit quietly in our corner. In order for our navy to go anywhere, it has to go through those systems for the foreseeable future.
 
Based on the above events, would you like to make any changes to the operational mission doctrine, or should the same standards be maintained for penetration into S'taxu?
[X] Intill the issues with jump coordination are fixed, each ship should aim for a different point in system.
2,000 tons of yard space are available to the Navy. What would you like to use that space for?
[X] Something else - write-in
-[X] A first contact (diplomatic) ship
 
Karugus said:
The thing is that unless we heavily invest in Deep Home as a base to explore to the Galactic North, or miraculously stumble into J2 drives- we need to go through one of these two systems to go anywhere or do anything. Given we're TL 8 and J2 drives are what- TL11? That's way too long to sit quietly in our corner. In order for our navy to go anywhere, it has to go through those systems for the foreseeable future.
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Yeah, we should no doubt jump some kind of permanent claim marker into the region. Better yet a station of some kind to ensure the claim is respected (hopefully). People keep talking about building construction ships but I'd rather try and see if we can pre-fab something in the Home system and then give it the bare minimum to jump into its new home.
 
Maxin_inc said:
Yeah, we should no doubt jump some kind of permanent claim marker into the region. Better yet a station of some kind to ensure the claim is respected (hopefully). People keep talking about building construction ships but I'd rather try and see if we can pre-fab something in the Home system and then give it the bare minimum to jump into its new home.
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Possible, but that's only worth it if it we do identify another suitable target within a parsec of Deep Home. And given we had to actively look for Deep Home chances are it's going to take a while and/or us setting up some kind of observation post just to figure out if Deep Home is worth developing further if it actually does lead to the Galactic North. The logistical support ship concept is currently a complete and total gimmick besides the basic need to ship cargo... and we honestly should not be using military dockspace for a militarized auxiliary freighter either.

Realistically, we have to secure passage through one of the two systems sooner rather than later. Xyri may be marginally more advanced but it only has a few millions and this is implied to be substantially smaller than our own.
 
Karugus said:
Possible, but that's only worth it if it we do identify another suitable target within a parsec of Deep Home. And given we had to actively look for Deep Home chances are it's going to take a while and/or us setting up some kind of observation post just to figure out if Deep Home is worth developing further if it actually does lead to the Galactic North. The logistical support ship concept is currently a complete and total gimmick besides the basic need to ship cargo... and we honestly should not be using military dockspace for a militarized auxiliary freighter either.
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Deep Home even if it's not within 1 parsec of another object is still a rather strategic resource given it's a +1 jump range to whatever force is put through it's hex as long as the fuel supplies last, I'd rather do the bare minimum to stake our flag in the system and get fuel production up and running than nothing at all.

Also yeah the logi-ship is a bit silly unless it can do things like print ship parts wholesale or act as a floating dockyard. I still support a push for jumptugs though.
 
Maxin_inc said:
Also yeah the logi-ship is a bit silly unless it can do things like print ship parts wholesale or act as a floating dockyard. I still support a push for jumptugs though.
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We don't have means of claiming and exploit nearby systems at the moment. Whether this is best done via a ship that hauls materials and workers or a jump-tag that brings pre-fabricated stations we'll know after we see the possible designs. Or perhaps when we'll get a proposal for the civilian sector for them to handle it.

Notice, that there is nothing preventing us from building refuelling stations in empty space, it's only a question of hauling fuel to them. Costly, but not impossible. In similar vein, nothing prevents us bypassing star systems by building ships capable of making four jumps. Inefficient, but not impossible.
 
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2-1: The First Loss
  • Threadmarks
    • Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Jul 16, 2024 at 8:30 AM, finished with 70 posts and 17 votes.
    • [X] Plan Follow-Up
      -[X] Wait with the mission until first contact package is prepared. Put our foremost diplomats and social scientists on it. It should contain an introduction, our linguistic data, assurance that we mean no harm, an explanation that the scout that dropped the package is part of astro-charting mission, a request to share their linguistic data and the date of the next arrival of the scout ship. That preparation ought to give us time to see whether Xyri visits our system, to do some data analysis from previous jumps and to catch up on Interstellar Cruiser construction.
      -[X] Revisit Xyri to drop the first contact package in a buoy. This buoy should include passive sensors and a transmitter, so that we could download the data during our third visit in Xyri.
      -[X] During S'taxu mission, aim for different points in the system in an attempt to mitigate the issues with coordination. Staying hidden is still preferred, but if the arrival was detected drop the first contact package as detailed above.
      -[X] Build Interstellar Cruisers
      --[X] Request a design for Logistical Support Ship, that should be able to drop navigation and sensor buoys, have the means to construct refuelling stations and mining operations, and haul cargo between systems. The first target for expansion should be Sector 00-01.
      [X] Set up a diplomatic mission and actually stay long enough to talk this time.
      [X] Additional Interstellar Cruisers
      [X] Intill the issues with jump coordination are fixed, each ship should aim for a different point in system.
      [X] Something else - write-in
      -[X] A first contact (diplomatic) ship
      [X] OPLAN: Guarded Welcome
      -[X] Write-In: Based on the current debriefings surrounding our survey of Xyri, tandem jumps of the kind we conducted are highly conspicuous and almost certainly place our new neighbors on a heightened alert that is, needless to say, not beneficial to a peaceful first contact. Therefore, we should conduct our scouting mission to S'taxu with a single ship and the expectation of contact, and do our utmost to appear either a non-threat or, given a hostile response, a novel enough problem that the Nightingale Protocol has time to be carried out. As such, Scout crews should prepare contact messages and simple, non-verbal overtures of friendship in advance of the next jump mission, along with plans for retreat or combat that are as detailed as possible given the intelligence we currently have. Which operational plan-diplomatic or military-is followed upon successful jump transit to S'taxu will be left in the hands of the Scout's crew, but to be unprepared as we were at Xyri will have only negative consequences-either a poor first impression or a decisive military loss.
      -[X] Interstellar Scouts. Building more vessels to examine and understand our new neighbors, especially the advanced civilization we know inhabits Xyri, is a necessity. Engaging in an arms race with an unknown bogey will only add to the aggressive first impression they may have of us. No first meeting between worlds should end in gunfire.
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    Based on the above events, would you like to make any changes to the operational mission doctrine, or should the same standards be maintained for penetration into S'taxu? Wait with the mission until first contact package is prepared. Put our foremost diplomats and social scientists on it. It should contain an introduction, our linguistic data, assurance that we mean no harm, an explanation that the scout that dropped the package is part of astro-charting mission, a request to share their linguistic data and the date of the next arrival of the scout ship. That preparation ought to give us time to see whether Xyri visits our system, to do some data analysis from previous jumps and to catch up on Interstellar Cruiser construction.
    - Revisit Xyri to drop the first contact package in a buoy. This buoy should include passive sensors and a transmitter, so that we could download the data during our third visit in Xyri.
    - During S'taxu mission, aim for different points in the system in an attempt to mitigate the issues with coordination. Staying hidden is still preferred, but if the arrival was detected drop the first contact package as detailed above.
    2,000 tons of yard space are available to the Navy. What would you like to use that space for? Build Interstellar Cruisers
    - Request a design for Logistical Support Ship, that should be able to drop navigation and sensor buoys, have the means to construct refuelling stations and mining operations, and haul cargo between systems. The first target for expansion should be Sector 00-01.


    Return to Xyri
    It takes a month of move-fast-break-things engineering and science for the diplomats, scientists and engineers of Home to put together a package that translates first contact protocols and recommendations into an automated probe that can be dropped into system. The realisation that neither side was willing to be the first to break radio silence and actually communicate leads to the rebuilding of a basic mining drone into a repeater platform. It will contain pre-recorded broadcasts of math equations, imagery, symbolism and basic linguistic models. It will not locate our home system in any way but it will contain a generic map of the local star cluster, etched onto the internal panelling. A 'golden disk' will contain the planform of humaniti, the location of several nearby pulsars that can be easily identified in the night sky and a recorded message of peaceful contact.

    It is broadly considered to be the gentlest way to make contact and several mining drones are reconfigured for just such a mission - two for Xyri, and two for S'Taxu.

    While the Navy holds its breath for six weeks, eagerly awaiting the deployment of their new cruisers and distributing their current warships amongst the planets in preparation for any kind of a response from the Xyri system, two new cruisers are laid down. Experience with the class will cut the construction time of the HSWS Tlaloc and HSWS Tohil down to sixty percent of the former class-members construction; they will require just seventy-two weeks rather than the one hundred and twenty of their predecessors. They should be completed in '03y08m00w' (Authors note: This is not a calendar date in use in Home. This is a calendar measuring time since the first Navy Day, in Solar years, as that is a useful metric for our purposes. At time of writing, it is '02y01m00w').

    Of course, for as long as the scientists and the diplomats might hum and haw over whether or not a return mission is ready, at some point the Surveyors are going to have to make the jump and return to Xyri. Six weeks after their return home and two weeks after the completion of the 'welcome wagon' probes, Janus leads the way to the jumping off point, followed by Heimdall and the SDD Deimos. A time is logged, mission clocks are synchronised and both ships begin their jumps.


    A record of the second Xyri mission, time stamped
    - Mission Clock Set 0W0D00H-00
    - 0W0D00H-33 - Jump Preparations aboard HSWS Janus Complete.
    - 0W0D00H-42 - Jump Preparations aboard HSWS Heimdall Complete.
    - 0W0D00H-45 - Jump Drives activated.
    - 0W6D20H-45 - HSWS Heimdall arrives in Xyri, 106D from Xyri-6.
    - 0W6D22H-05 - Drive plume detected amongst Inner planets. Estimated intercept time: 55 hours.
    - 0W6D22H-17 - HSWS Heimdall deploys 'Welcome Wagon' probe, begins preparations for return to Home.
    - 0W6D22H-24 - HSWS Janus arrives in Xyri, 111D from Xyri-8.
    - 0W6D22H-28 - HSWS Heimdall departs Xyri system, less than two hours after arrival.
    - 0W7D01H-04 - Drive plume detected amongst Outer planets. Estimated intercept time: 2.4 Days.
    - 0W7D01H-31 - HSWS Janus deploys 'Welcome Wagon' probe, begins preparations for return to Home.
    - 0W7D01H-57 - HSWS Janus departs Xyri system.
    - 1W6D19H-21 - HSWS Janus arrives in Home.
    - 1W6D19H-28 - HSWS Heimdall arrives in Home.


    Jump Confusion
    It is noted with some amusement, that HSWS Janus's time in Xyri was longer than HSWS Heimdall's, but both arrived in system later and returned to Home sooner. The oddities of Jump travel continues to escape our best scientists, but currently it at least seems to be only a minor issue that our strategies can be adapted around.

    Four weeks later (02y02m02w), the two ships begin their preparations to jump into S'Taxu for the first time and, given the massiveness of the star at the centre of the system, both planets are forced to jump into the outer planetary orbitals. The HSWS Janus will be aiming to come out of jumps space close to S'Taxu-5, while HSWS Heimdall will be doing the same for S'Taxu-8. They jump, and the Navy holds its breath.

    Two weeks later, HSWS Janus returns.


    Interview report on the scouting mission into unexplored system S'Taxu, Captain Nuru commanding HSWS Janus
    As ordered, the Heimdall and the Janus jumped into S'Taxu, seperated by millions of kilometres and only a little time. The following events were logged on the Janus' sensors several hours after they occurred. We came out of Jump Space not long after the Heimdall, according to our readings of their Jump Flash, close enough to S'Taxu-five that our sensors could give us pretty good images of a giant blue and white planet. Sensors flagged a warning about system traffic transiting close by - we could see drive plumes scattering away from our location, unlike in Xyri. They definitely knew where we were, and they didn't much like it.

    I gave the order to prep our little friend and for engineering to start spooling the drives. I wasn't much interested in sticking around waiting for one of these ships to get brave. Nonetheless, I wanted to stick around for as long as possible, gather as much data as we could before we bounced. We spent a few hours with capacitors charged as the drive plumes disappeared behind the gas giant one by one by one. That's when we saw it.

    We'd gotten the Heimdall's Jump Flash a couple of hours into our stay, but we saw a whole lot happen all at once. A bunch of tiny drive plumes. Missiles maybe? Couldn't tell at several light-minutes distance. Then Heimdall started burning hard, her grav-plates glowing. These ships are fast when you give them the chance to be. Wish she hadn't needed to be. She was random-walking, trying to throw off whatever was chasing her. At least a few missed. Then a few more didn't. Our sensors think whatever hit her was nuclear, but it was hard to tell. Might have been her fusion plant venting. Whatever else happened, the Heimdall was gone.

    Didn't see any signs of escape pods. Couldn't have done much if there were. I ordered the jump back homewards. It was a sombre flight back.


    Acquired Information
    S'Taxu A : A single, massive A3V blue star
    S'Taxu-1 : 466 - A potentially habitable planet scorching hot rock with a thick, humid atmosphere that's entirely unliveable.
    S'Taxu-2 : Large Gas Giant
    S'Taxu-3 : 345 - A strangely dense planet with an atmosphere that is unusually thick. Overly hot.
    S'Taxu-4 : 533 - Inhabited main world, just far enough from the massive star to be temperate.
    S'Taxu-5 : Large Gas Giant
    S'Taxu-6 : Belt of planetoids and rocks with a highly eccentric orbit
    S'Taxu-7 : 758 - An Ice ball with an extremely thing atmosphere.
    S'Taxu-8 : 76A - A second ice ball, orbiting in retrograde compared to the rest of the system.

    The S'Taxu system contains significant orbital and space traffic, concentrated around the fourth and fifth planets as well as the seventh and eighth. Analysis of weapons technology shows no outwards indications of anything more advanced than Home's technology, but they are clearly far more hostile with it than we would have hoped for.


    Political Crisis
    The loss of the HSWS Heimdall quickly develops into a crisis at home. Hawks in the Citizen's Council are immediately arguing that we should invade S'Taxu once the Interstellar Cruisers are ready. Doves are, on the other hand, proposing a closing of any thoughts of approaching S'Taxu at least until an understanding of Xyri is developed.

    What is the Navy's recommendation for how to proceed?
    [ ] We must investigate whether any of the crew survived the Heimdall's destruction. Send two cruisers as soon as possible to demand answers from the local government.
    [ ] Refocus on Xyri. Be prepared for potential incursions from S'Taxu. Honour the lost.
    [ ] Begin preparations for an invasion. A squadron of four cruisers will be a powerful scouting force and will pave the way for future violence.
    The Logistic Support Ship should mass:
    [ ] 1,000 tons, the same as the cruiser
    [ ] 2,000 tons
    [ ] 4,000 tons
    [ ] 6,000 tons
    It should be optimised for:
    [ ] Prioritising fleet support, command and control and operational extension.
    [ ] It should prioritise supply, fuelling and manufacturing of spares.
    [ ] It should prioritise being a home away from home and a support ship.
     
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    • [X] Begin preparations for an invasion. A squadron of four cruisers will be a powerful scouting force and will pave the way for future violence.

    We must defend ourselves from the alien menace, and the best defense is a proactive one!

    [X] 2,000 tons

    [ ] Prioritising fleet support, command and control and operational extension.
    [X] It should prioritise supply, fuelling and manufacturing of spares.
     
    [x] We must investigate whether any of the crew survived the Heimdall's destruction. Send two cruisers as soon as possible to demand answers from the local government.

    Kinda sus that both planets we made first contact with tried to shoot first. Maybe they have experience with more jump-drive using peoples who were aggressive?

    Anyway, S'taxi might be able to recover tech from us. Yikes!
     
    Random Member said:
    We must defend ourselves from the alien menace, and the best defense is a proactive one!
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    Could be to them we ~are~ the alien menace, I mean we did just jump into their solar system without warning for all they know we were scouting them out for invasion. Which would make it ironic if we did invade, they wouldn't even be wrong then.

    Or for all we know they've already been attacked by someone else and are just in a state of high alert.

    Thus

    [X] We must investigate whether any of the crew survived the Heimdall's destruction. Send two cruisers as soon as possible to demand answers from the local government.

    They still did open fire and sending in warships to establish contact after civies got blown up is a reasonable move. Just you know not instantly going "Welp invasion time"
     
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