Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
One that badly needs tech.
I think we build more CFAs. We've got to make sure our line ships are up to a snuff.
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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
One that badly needs tech.
I think we build more CFAs. We've got to make sure our line ships are up to a snuff.
That's not strictly true. Our fighter-bomber is capable of multiple attack runs and uses armour.
In fact, I am not sure how much we need multiple attack runs if the fighter cannot tank some hits. If it's killed before using up those attack runs that's suboptimal.
Though maybe rocket booster can give fighter some dodge chance, dunno about that.
Our own sensors are propotype TL10. If our stealth can affect our own sensors, then it should affect the Hermosan sensors too. So that should be easy to confirm or rule out.
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Let's not stick missiles on fighters. There's no advantage, since even with high-burn boosters missiles are faster than fighters. If we do want to extend the range of missiles build boats of at least 100 ton, so that we can mount missile bays and have greater saturation. 10 fighters shoot 10 missiles per round and reload after 4 rounds, 1 boat shoots 12 missiles and reloads after 12 rounds. It can be made to move at the same speeds and for a 100 ton boat there are no penalties to armouring.
For fighters pulse lasers should be our choice.
For fighters pulse lasers should be our choice.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Pulse laser fighters would be interceptors, not strike craft. Missile or torpedoes are what we're looking at for this.
And the idea is really you launch the fighters from outside retaliation range, they close in, dump their payloads, and return and the enemy can't shoot back at your capship.
Preliminary plan...
[ ] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
[ ] Capable of multiple attack runs before returning to rearm
[ ] Confer with Cassalon on the possibility of land transfers; survey Home to see if there is suitable territory. If Cassalon is open, counter-offer with a mix of plots on both worlds to spread out the newcomers (and hopefully dilute their political impact). Clarify that the Aslan will be required to abide by the laws of Home and Cassalon and will be subjects/citizens of Home space.
[ ] CFA-B Variant
[ ] Modular Freight Vessel to serve as a munitions carrier for the fleet and an auxiliary mine-layer
Why not put mass drivers or railguns on the strike craft? Their whole issue is poor range and inaccuracy, which is much smaller a problem on a strike craft designed to get close to the enemy? Railguns also pierce armor like butter, right?
Also, missiles don't have a maximum range, so there is no "outside retaliation range", right? Unless you hide the carrier behind a planet, I guess...
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Regarding tech, i propose to wait a bit - we voted to check if we can get some from Xyri too. Maybe they can provide cheaper tech? In that case, we would need to negotiate for less with Aslan.
Regarding the capital ship - I would like a bigger one than 7k tons. 8-9, maybe whole 9.75ktons. BUT - money are issue.
As for money, our MAT (8k ton assault transport) costed us ~1700 MCrs, not counting the small craft. Fighter bomber is ~18 mcr, so 50 of crafts would be ~1000 MCrs more.
We can either put building on pause and wait for more space to be available, or we can settle for smaller and cheaper ship.
But we should keep in mind that the final price for our carrier would be more than half of our yearly budget.
They are too large weapons for the strike craft. We can put either turret-sized weapons on fighters, or a single barbette-sized weapon on the 70-ton craft.
And barbette-sized railguns are out of our TL for now.
Regarding the capital ship - I would like a bigger one than 7k tons. 8-9, maybe whole 9.75ktons. BUT - money are issue.
As for money, our MAT (8k ton assault transport) costed us ~1700 MCrs, not counting the small craft. Fighter bomber is ~18 mcr, so 50 of crafts would be ~1000 MCrs more.
We can either put building on pause and wait for more space to be available, or we can settle for smaller and cheaper ship.
But we should keep in mind that the final price for our carrier would be more than half of our yearly budget.
They are too large weapons for the strike craft. We can put either turret-sized weapons on fighters, or a single barbette-sized weapon on the 70-ton craft.
And barbette-sized railguns are out of our TL for now.
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Railguns won't fit on them, unless we go to like... 300 ton ships.
And missile volley effectiveness starts to drop off once it hits maximum range as they start hitting fuel exhaustion. I think it starts halving and then halving again? Don't quote me on that.
Also the larger strikecraft we build, the more tonnage we'll need to dedicate for docking or hangar space...
Plan Wait a Bit
-[ ] Fighter:
--[ ] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
--[ ] Capable of approaching an enemy with stealth
-[ ] Aslan:
--[ ] Agree to hire mercenaries
--[ ] Delay the decision on land - wait for the answer from Xyri on the possibility of tech share first
-[ ] Ships:
--[ ] 3 more Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each)
--[ ] Experimental minelayer
--[ ] Wait for at least 8k tons of shipyards to become available for the Capital Carrier
I think we can fit missiles on such fighter too, and that would give it the repeatable strike.
-[ ] Fighter:
--[ ] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
--[ ] Capable of approaching an enemy with stealth
-[ ] Aslan:
--[ ] Agree to hire mercenaries
--[ ] Delay the decision on land - wait for the answer from Xyri on the possibility of tech share first
-[ ] Ships:
--[ ] 3 more Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each)
--[ ] Experimental minelayer
--[ ] Wait for at least 8k tons of shipyards to become available for the Capital Carrier
I think we can fit missiles on such fighter too, and that would give it the repeatable strike.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I don't think stealth + chem rocket will work together unless the idea is they coast in slowly and then fire up the rocket booster for the last attack run. Which might be cool, but they'll probably detect us launching if nothing else, so not sure stealth works unless it's general EWAR / anti-radar kinda shit to prevent target locks, which might also work. 🤔
RE: Aslan, I'd at least start talks with Cassalon to see if they're open to the idea so we have an idea of what we're negotiating with later if the Xyri aren't open.
I'd like to build more CFAs over more refits, honestly - I think getting more of them up and running is important since they're our main battle line. I don't think refits are bad, but I'd prioritize cruiser hulls. And for the minelayer, I think the modular ship which can do minelaying or carry munitions as a logistical vessel would be best of both worlds.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
[X] OPLAN: Wildcat
-[X] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
-[X] Capable of approaching an enemy with stealth
-[X] Confer with Cassalon on the possibility of land transfers and if they would be open to such a plan; survey Home to see if there is suitable territory to bargain with should the need arise. If Cassalon is open, counter-offer with a mix of plots on both worlds to spread out the newcomers (and hopefully dilute their political impact). Clarify that the Aslan who choose to take land plots will be required to abide by the laws of Home and Cassalon and will be subjects of Home space.
-[X] Lay down a CFA-B Variant
-[X] Lay down a Modular Freight Vessel to serve as a munitions carrier for fleet logistics and an auxiliary mine-layer.
-[X] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
-[X] Capable of approaching an enemy with stealth
-[X] Confer with Cassalon on the possibility of land transfers and if they would be open to such a plan; survey Home to see if there is suitable territory to bargain with should the need arise. If Cassalon is open, counter-offer with a mix of plots on both worlds to spread out the newcomers (and hopefully dilute their political impact). Clarify that the Aslan who choose to take land plots will be required to abide by the laws of Home and Cassalon and will be subjects of Home space.
-[X] Lay down a CFA-B Variant
-[X] Lay down a Modular Freight Vessel to serve as a munitions carrier for fleet logistics and an auxiliary mine-layer.
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
The reason I'm asking about the Aslan and not Xyri is because the Aslan can get you better tech than Xyri and also more of it. Xyri can only potentially increase two of your tech areas to TL 9 - a point you're mostly at. The Aslan can take you up to 10.
Got it, good to know. Kinda thought that Xyri has access to tl10 weapons, due to their plasma-gun on planet.
Could you please tell, in case of combat would the fleet combat rules be used exclusively, or would "adventure-level" combat feature with small number of ships, for example?
I am looking at combat rules about stealth and the booster and I start to believe the booster is kinda lost on strike crafts (but great for interceptors and good for ewars probably too), and stealth seems very situational. If our goal is to sit inside big ship formation and supplement it with ton of fighters, then stealth is not very useful.
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
The infantry plasma launcher is a tl9 weapon ^^
So, combat is an odd one. We're going to be using a funny mash-up of 1e and 2e fleet combat rules in the *vast* majority of cases. That means barrages of alike weapons and similar. I'm doing this because 2e has done some strange things to the 1e rule set, some things I like, some things like like less.
Oh yeah. I am looking at combat in 2ed and in "adveture-scale" space combat weapons can miss and can be evaded, and in "fleet-scale" they cannot (aside from spinals). And that's changes the calculation of what is useful ability/weapon/feature and what is not. Other things, like sandcasters and multi-turrets, also work differently at those two "scales", but the miss/evasion is really big difference.
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[X] OPLAN: Run and Gun
-[X] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
-[X] Capable of defending itself against interceptors/missiles
-[X] Confer with Cassalon on the possibility of land transfers and if they would be open to such a plan; survey Home to see if there is suitable territory to bargain with should the need arise. If Cassalon is open, counter-offer with a mix of plots on both worlds to spread out the newcomers (and hopefully dilute their political impact). Clarify that the Aslan who choose to take land plots will be required to abide by the laws of Home and Cassalon and will be subjects of Home space.
-[X] Lay down a CFA-B Variant
-[X] Lay down a Modular Freight Vessel to serve as a munitions carrier for fleet logistics and an auxiliary mine-layer.
I kinda see this fighter as having a single missile rack and a pd-turret, using rocket to close the distance, shoot missiles (from a more favourable range) and if necessary, run away (or if possible, shoot missiles again, before running).
Thought about putting armour instead off chem.rocket on it, but not sure how much of it could be fitted.
And the ewar would use it's big rocket to either quickly travel and scout system with sensors, or to work as interceptor with pd-turret and ewar countermeasures (against missiles).
Without armour these crafts would be pretty vulnerable against long-range turrets, such as particle beams. But we can't have it all.
-[X] Capable of high-speed attack runs using a chemical rocket booster
-[X] Capable of defending itself against interceptors/missiles
-[X] Confer with Cassalon on the possibility of land transfers and if they would be open to such a plan; survey Home to see if there is suitable territory to bargain with should the need arise. If Cassalon is open, counter-offer with a mix of plots on both worlds to spread out the newcomers (and hopefully dilute their political impact). Clarify that the Aslan who choose to take land plots will be required to abide by the laws of Home and Cassalon and will be subjects of Home space.
-[X] Lay down a CFA-B Variant
-[X] Lay down a Modular Freight Vessel to serve as a munitions carrier for fleet logistics and an auxiliary mine-layer.
I kinda see this fighter as having a single missile rack and a pd-turret, using rocket to close the distance, shoot missiles (from a more favourable range) and if necessary, run away (or if possible, shoot missiles again, before running).
Thought about putting armour instead off chem.rocket on it, but not sure how much of it could be fitted.
And the ewar would use it's big rocket to either quickly travel and scout system with sensors, or to work as interceptor with pd-turret and ewar countermeasures (against missiles).
Without armour these crafts would be pretty vulnerable against long-range turrets, such as particle beams. But we can't have it all.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I like this plan overall (it is almost identical after all lol), although I still like stealth - the only issue with trying to get it to be able to defend itself is that it'll need to be larger, so we'll need more tonnage for hangar / storage space. Would not be fussed either way, though.
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] OPLAN: Wildcat
[X] OPLAN: Run and Gun
I don't think 4WheelSword would've included interceptor defense as an option if it was impossible to do without a 35+ ton fighter, since our existing 40 ton fighter was rejected for being too large for carrier operations.
I don't think 4WheelSword would've included interceptor defense as an option if it was impossible to do without a 35+ ton fighter, since our existing 40 ton fighter was rejected for being too large for carrier operations.
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
It's less that the 40 ton is too large and more that we can't currently build an (effective) carrier large enough to fit enough hangar space etc without a lot of tradeoffs.
We could in theory devote all 18k tons of build space and build a super carrier.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
You can reduce your missile load for frag and dogfight torpedoes.
Oh also, dogfight torpedoes coming soon.
Oh also, dogfight torpedoes coming soon.