Touhou: Scarlet Devil M̶a̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ Mafia

Should Day 2 be extended by another twenty-four hours?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 83.3%
  • No

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
End of Night 5/Start of Day 6
The party of nine from where they had entered in the night comes out to a party of seven, all of them looking as two more of their numbers have vanished. And so like every night prior, the two missing are revealed.



The first is revealed as Reisen Inaba, Moon Rabbit on Earth (@Shalmoa), who 'died' from a Knock on the Head.



The second is revealed as Alice Margatroid, Seven-Colored Puppet Master (@dinomannitro6), who 'died' from being Knocked Out In A Closet.

And a message is left upon the table to read.

Reevals needed on Walker's flip
Everyone needs progressions now IMO
Hobo's vote NAI even if late due to self-pres
Other votes probably won't get good info at this point
Not sure if absences are notable right now (Dino/Comi, YP to a lesser extent)
Figure one more affordable miss ATM but needs serious discussion given game length
Probably makes it a good spot to fill out claim space
Wiadi, Comi, Atoms are the only unclaimed ATM
Atoms can clear with N5 Town kill, Wiadi/Comi mech-locked out of Odd-Night TKP

And so the seven members of the party begin the sixth day…

End of Day is at
 
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For clarity - is this a "shouldn't have done that" slap on the wrist, or a more serious Scumread?
Both tbh. I don't plan to make an actual Zaealix push (99Lies vs Zaealix EoD now would be despair info-wise, no clue how I'd get anything from that) and "let's just vote them out for taking up too much attention being weird" is the type of thing that gets a slap on the wrist and that's what the vote is for.

But saying that and then neither actually voting nor doing anything to talk about anything else does rise to the level of actually suspicious to me. So that's noted for the future.
 
I mean, as far as info from EoD goes right now 99L is sitting in a pretty good spot, so long as he's actually mafia. I feel like I'd learn a lot from a red flip there already, TBQH.

I just don't know that I can see 99L as scum yet.
 
Everyone seems to be calling me out for my lore posts and I just want to say that something seems to have been lost in the transition from yesterday to today, I made post #336 to address it somewhat because I knew that this was going to happen but let me do it again

So like, If I was able to tell everyone what my list of guessed abilities might be depending on the characters I think are in the game, I might not be able to exactly pin-point what they're capable of doing, but I'd definitely be able to make a list of good guesses based on what I think would make the most sense for each character and their concept after accounting for game balance

^ This was the conclusion I made in my second lore post, summing up both it and the first post. All of it was me showcasing why and how someone like me might be able to make call out the setup using lore solves and why the concept of Rule 1 is a good idea for this game; it wasn't made without reason. Those reasons are A) we were talking about Rule 1 at the time and I felt the need to settle it definitively and B) Someone was doubting that knowing lore provides that much of an advantage in the game and I needed to bring out the big guns to showcase why that's not necessarily the case

But now that that's out of the way, I want to start by bringing up this discussion a little bit more up to date: the case of NinetyNineLies. Now listen: I don't think this is our guy, at least not with the information we have right now. Why? Because it's NinetyNineLies. Bro seems confused in every game he's in, and while post #338 is bad, no doubt about it, post #345 and post #350 seem to be more calls for help more than anything else; Indeed, if it wasn't for post #338, we probably wouldn't be voting for him at all. I had a succulent line to explain most of his misbehaviors in my notes, and it was this: "99Ls feels the sharks underneath his raft shaking up the waters, but he can't see them; in his endless fear, he flails around and commits to foolish mistakes that make those sharks smile."

Now whether we want to policy vote that or not, I'll leave it up to the vets; but for me it isn't a definitive scumread, unless someone tells me right here and now that jumping around like a scared cat and engaging in loud pessimism is his town strategy and he simply replicates his town plays when he plays wolf - which, to be honest, might be a smart play if you have that reputation

If I had to press one person right here and now, it would actually be Absum. Why? Because in post #284, Shalmoa scumread him, even if just a bit lightly, and bro hasn't responded to the allegations since... in fact, his next major piece of content was him asking other people for their scum / town reads in post #355 - he slipped right on by just as Rule 1 discussion was heating up, and used it to look busy once it was over and a thread soft-reset hit after meme-time wound down. Now I don't think this is a scumread just yet, but it is an interesting move with convenient timing

Cryicubed is kind of in the same place: Shalmoa hit him with the "please go" in post #284 too and so did Ori in post #358, but he also hasn't defended much either other than a humorous post #322, with him stating that "This is why I don't do much Day 1" in post #365 after giving his infamous Roleblocking list and giving the easy vote for 99Ls, with the rest of his posts being based around that 99Ls vote... with his current vote being against Ori, who just happens to be the person who called him out in her post. Makes it even weirder that Absum defended him in post #363, but I admit that it might just be a coincidence, especially on day 1...

Dinomannitro got hit with -Rosen's gun to head in post #368 AND 99L's post #353 and has stayed radio silent this entire time; a bit weird, yes, but the excuse of "it's a holiday" is still as relevant as ever, unfortunately... Hitting him again here @dinomannitro6

For those above, I'd like it if they could give some quiet considerations about their behavior, since they seem to be avoiding hits like they're grazing danmaku in a spell-card battle; it would also be nice to hear out some extra voices on their ranges as well.

If there's one person I would love to hear from it would be Bean, since she kinda dropped that she could double vote, waited for discussion to fill up the thread, refused to elaborate, and then left. I don't think it's a scumread either (she could just be enjoying the holidays) but definitely someone to keep in mind. For anyone who's unaware This was my post about Clown Bean

I can't say anything about Nanimani, I don't think he's said anything since meme-time wound down but someone can correct me on that and I'll whip back around to it... actually, he has, but it also has to do with the 99Ls discussion so that's null for me, it's an easy vote for wolves to distract with but it's also a reasonable policy / sus vote for town

Byzantine seems to be just giving his reads so I can't say anything solid about that until I see some of his posts whip by in real-time...

YP's going to be a whole 'nother massive wall of text considering his reputation but I'm pretty sure everyone's already covered what I have to say there

Hugh_Donnetono hasn't said anything at all ever since yesterday; might be time-zones but something to think about. Hitting him here @hugh_donnetono

I think for everyone else I'll do it like this: instead of me making this wall of text larger, anyone ask me for my opinions on anyone and I'll do it... I don't think I can scumread or even townread anyone definitively right now, especially with my lack of community knowledge, but I can definitely walk back and talk about some moves... tbh there's 21 players in this game and not a lot of people are active posters, so my guess is that there's at least one wolf who's staying low and coasting by, hense my hits
 
I mean, as far as info from EoD goes right now 99L is sitting in a pretty good spot, so long as he's actually mafia. I feel like I'd learn a lot from a red flip there already, TBQH.

I just don't know that I can see 99L as scum yet.
Eh. If they flip scum like this with no other wagon I'd get something sure but I'm not good enough to get much from that. If it was 99Lies vs Zaealix EoD and either flips scum then yes that would be good info, but I'm a pessimist and thus operating on "what if town flip" by default.
 
Yeah but also I think this would be Nopeguy's literal first Town game if he's Town?
Sometimes I hate how I focus in on things, I almost missed the last part here.
Oh God do I know what a hot switch looks like... nictis nearly gave me a mini-heartattack with one and I wasn't even involved due to being busy at the time.
And I'll do it again! :V
Both tbh. I don't plan to make an actual Zaealix push (99Lies vs Zaealix EoD now would be despair info-wise, no clue how I'd get anything from that) and "let's just vote them out for taking up too much attention being weird" is the type of thing that gets a slap on the wrist and that's what the vote is for.

But saying that and then neither actually voting nor doing anything to talk about anything else does rise to the level of actually suspicious to me. So that's noted for the future.
What's your suggestion for the alternate to 99Lies?

post #345 and post #350 seem to be more calls for help more than anything else
Disagree, this is more amping up the potential value of his role or its obviousness. There's only really three roles that come to mind for myself on reading those three posts, but I won't be sharing which for obvious reasons.

If I had to press one person right here and now, it would actually be Absum. Why? Because in post #284, Shalmoa scumread him, even if just a bit lightly, and bro hasn't responded to the allegations since... in fact, his next major piece of content was him asking other people for their scum / town reads in post #355 - he slipped right on by just as Rule 1 discussion was heating up, and used it to look busy once it was over and a thread soft-reset hit after meme-time wound down. Now I don't think this is a scumread just yet, but it is an interesting move with convenient timing
This is interesting, but I think the lack of reaction to Shalmoa's post isn't really relevant. Nothing there to respond to given that it is explicitly based on nothing.

That being said, it is a minor piece in favor of them being teamed.

I can't say anything about Nanimani, I don't think he's said anything since meme-time wound down but someone can correct me on that and I'll whip back around to it... actually, he has, but it also has to do with the 99Ls discussion so that's null for me, it's an easy vote for wolves to distract with but it's also a reasonable policy / sus vote for town
At the top of the page, under thread tools is the Who Replied feature. It shows everyone who has replied and their post count, the number links to all of their posts to check out. A handy feature, even if not as useful as other site's ISO.

Good post overall.
 
Dinomannitro got hit with -Rosen's gun to head in post #368 AND 99L's post #353 and has stayed radio silent this entire time; a bit weird, yes, but the excuse of "it's a holiday" is still as relevant as ever, unfortunately... Hitting him again here @dinomannitro6

Don't think I didn't see you hop in and out of the thread when you got hit by my post

Since you didn't answer the question the first time I'm making the same request that -Rosen did in #368:

Gun to head, name the scum team.

Then after you post your response, make another response to reason those out a little more. Basically don't think first, then think second.

@dinomannitro6

You're usually quiet so this might be a red herring but regardless the radio silence when you've been tagged is a problem
 
Logos, same boat. This post is more paranoia bait-y. I do not see the strategy here that leads to this being a town!Logos post and actually a good idea. Now, maybe Logos is just memeing still, but...

This is a question that answers itself. Three Marisa memes and then wondering why Marisa might end up in a Touhou game? Asking why someone who seems to be leaning on lore a fair bit might expect Marisa to be in the game? Asking a relatively new player to the SV scene to comment on a contentious role from a game they weren't in (but apparently did review, at least addressing my original concern with this)?

Like if you want me to put up one post for "This is a player that isn't concerned with hunting for scum more than figuring out the setup", it's either this post or 99L asking who's vanilla, and for 99L that's somehow typical and on-meta. For Logos though?

Definite question marks.
Fair point on asking after Big News not doing much to find scum. In my defense, I was half asleep at the time and memeing rather than trying to make a serious post, with the extent of my thought being 'ah no, not again' when a connection was made between namedropping two roles and posting a lot about the characters that might be in the game about halfway through finding the memes, when at the time I hadn't made the connection on why those two specific characters might be assumed present. My expectation was to get a flat "no," possibly after it was explained what Big News was, satisfy my paranoia, and move on.

Now, since I'm posting half asleep again anyway, a post prompted me to do a bit of reading back and I think I have a thread to pull. This one:
I'm surprised I'm not lowest poster of the day yet…
99 is an annoying cipher at the best of times given just how…
Out of it, perhaps? He can be.
But at this level of suspicion I'm inclined to call it, for as little as that's probably worth right now, on the basis that if we don't he'll continue to stink and drain attention.
Now to me, and this might be me making odd connections again that won't make much sense when I'm properly awake, this post feels weird to me in that checking to see if I'm the lowest poster or not is the kind of thing that would not occur to me unless I was trying to coast by lurking and not drawing attention.

Then the post goes on to suggest riding the 99L wagon to end of day while expecting to get little out of it. That feels like a very useful course for scum to encourage if they know 99L isn't one of them. Absent night actions changing things, we wouldn't be much better off start of day 2.

And checking what posts Zaealix has made led me to this series.
*blinks*…
Are you…Hrrm…A revision…?
[X]Vote A wise Hermit
You have my attention now.
Kay,
So.
Bean pipes up.
A lot of people seem to react to it with 'sus but makes sense to claim early'
I say nay-nay.
Hermit does a lot of work trying to argue the intent is to make clear double-voting is a thing Bean can do so Town can be clear on that.
Now this is the bit where I got nutso.
Hermit calls him?self a revision demon. A revision demon? That sounds to me rather like the ability to destroy history…
Which rather maps cleanly onto Janitor.
Now I'm not a Grand Vet like Pawn, but Janitor strikes me as a Scum ability.
And then the earlier ploy with early claiming Double-voter suddenly feels MUCH more suspect in that light.
So that's where I'm going with this.
Ah…
Haaaaa
*facepalms*
[X]Null
NVM Me.
The push is more of a meme than anything else, gained no traction, and was swiftly abandoned. As was said in arguments at the time, a scum chat would probably counsel against making this kind of case... and perhaps they did, and weren't heeded; the three hour gap speaks against 'not fast enough'. But the case was made, and it might make sense to drop a case like this against a teammate who is attracting a lot of attention and might get hit by a vig or cop at some point. At least, it makes more sense to me than trying this case against town, or as town.

I still want to know what 99L was thinking asking for vanillas, but I feel like this is both more likely to hit scum and possibly more productive if it does.
[x] vote Zaelix
 
@dinomannitro6 @Nictis @Logos if you have a doctor/bodyguard power, who would you protect for N1?
Ori, good player whos also high profile enough to likely be targeted.

Also, just as a note, we are in the latter half of Day 1 now, ergo...

@ Nopeguy @ Variable @ Byzantine @ Shalmoa @ dinomannitro6 Gun to head, name the scum team.

Then after you post your response, make another response to reason those out a little more. Basically don't think first, then think second.
99L, Nani, ABoA, Roach
 
99L reasoning is already generally known, the other 3 are just a series of progressively weaker vibes. going to go read their posts now to see if theres anything backing them up.

ps almost put Roach as 3p, before remembering the d1 opening just said 2 teams. Also I'm reading YP as town but I see the argument for scum there and am watching for further reasons to change opinion.
 
Nani came out slight positive: talks repeatedly against infoleaking. kinda defends 99L but that was moreso getting attention on YP's behavior

Atoms doesn't have too much, but he was the first one to respond agaist the 99L post
...Again? I swear last game we talked about why this isn't a good question to ask.

also had an interaction with Roach in the meme phase that didn't seem like two scum? so a count against the team I gave

again not too much. kinda defends 99Ls though. in a manner that could either be just making sure things are properly considered, or trying to de-wagon a teammate without tying yourself too much to them
 
oh I forgot
[X] vote NinetyNineLies

not that it matters too much with the wagon as it is
 
If I say that I have a purely town-beneficial role, are y'all gonna jump off my wagon?
unfortunately no, I don't think so? this seems like a pretty typical '99 said something sus again, let's get him, no we don't care how many times this has happened and he's flipped town' wagon, never been sure how to really push back against those :V
 
Also I think the whole reason for the sus is infoleaking in the first place? so leaking more info might be the solution. idk tho I'm not on the wagon, open to a second opinion
 
unfortunately no, I don't think so? this seems like a pretty typical '99 said something sus again, let's get him, no we don't care how many times this has happened and he's flipped town' wagon, never been sure how to really push back against those :V
That sums it up pretty succinctly, all wrapped up in a bow. I suppose if someone else were to make another scum slip, then someone could try to push *that* wagon... but no one else has had such scum tells.
 
@NinetyNineLies that's probably a good point on roach's part actually. best way to possibly get people off of your wagon is, in general, to find someone else you find sus and convince people to vote for them instead.
 
Clearly the best solution to a sinking ship... is to shatter the hull and float on a plank!

Let's see...

@Nopeguy @Absum @Zaealix Assuming I would flip scum, what would that say about the scum team? Who would be the most suspicious after my flip?
 
If I say that I have a purely town-beneficial role, are y'all gonna jump off my wagon?
FWIW, in addition to "finding someone else more sus" (which remains the gold standard, no disagreement there), rather than jumping straight to claims I think it might help more to...answer some of the questions pointed your way? Like "why the vanilla claim request again though."
 
(not that I'm currently on your wagon anyway but like, I do still want an answer to that)

(also speaking of my vote, at some point I should find the time to form/justify a more conclusive opinion on "is Pyro just Pyroing or is that cover" but right now I am sleep - folks can feel free to ping me about this later if I haven't gotten around to it by a reasonable point tomorrow)
 
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