Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

Recall my earlier warning about blind-costing rituals, veekie.

If you pay too much, you risk overloading the ritual and getting a feedback loop that does A Bad Thing. If you pay too little, you run the risk of the ritual taking the necessary energies regardless.

You've already seen the latter with the accidental Black Star Ritual way back when you blew up everything you had. Overpaying is... at least almost as bad as underpaying.
Okay...so probably want to refine it further then.
 
Thoughts on godbaby this turn? We can afford it.
I definitely think one would be worth making. I just think we have to decide what issue we would want it to help handle. No matter what it would probably help with one of the three. If we give it water and high influence it could feed our people and possibly slow down any Long Night mass death shenanigans. In that case we absolutely want to avoid givingredients it death to keep it from joining in. It might also help slow down the fire spirit after it ascends.

Alternatively we could go avatar heavy, give it death, and kick an ambrosia or two over to Saiga so he has something to eat for added sustenance. Then he could add some of his aspects through random additions. This would provide us with a warrior God to stand beside his father against the bloodied spirit. An aspect and Avatar heavy God would also be more likely to pop out a race it could lead to war in the longer term as well. Providing us a future buffer against war pantheons.

I think these are the two most obvious and simple setups to go for, and they both directly aid us in dealing with the visions. Having an extra god around to help negate things is hopefully not something the vision is planning around, but if it is then basically nothing we do won't be coopted.
 
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120(Inspire)+26(Darken)+30(Moonlight)+18(Empower Realm)+30(Explore)+12(Study Stars)+20(Study Omens)+5(Improve Shrine)+5(Meet Fox)=266/266

5(Avatar)+3(Explore)+5(Shapeshift)+1(Study Stars)+2(Study Omens)+1(Despise)+.5(Improve Shrine)+2(pantheon)+.5(Meet Mo'sagao)+2(children)+18(God-child)=40 Sustenance

[X] Plan The Usko Expedition!
-[X] Inspire Petitioner - Expend DE to give inspiring visions and dreams to a petitioner who comes to your shrine or prays to you. Inspirations are naturally stronger than Blessings, but affect a more limited number of people. Inspirations can target individuals of choice andgrant specific skills. Costs: 5 DE
--[X] 40 DE on Survival
--[X] 40 DE on Trickery
--[X] 40 DE on Perform (Singing)
-[X] Darken** - Artificially draw away the light, strongly enhancing Melee, Ranged, War, Trickery, and Survival skill tests. Costs: 13 DE
--[X] In your territory
---[X] x2
-[X] Moonlight** - The moon shines bright this night, revealing things that hide in the dark. Can cause Weird, also empowers a number of relevant actions (Avatar actions using Trickery, Astrology, etc. and Influence Acts excluding Blessings or Inspirations). Costs: 30 DE
--[X] In your territory
-[X] Empower Realm - Pay <18> DE to reserve more energy for upkeep.
-[X] Change your Divine Form - Take on the appearance of a mortal creature or strange elemental manifestation to camouflage yourself, or speak directly to mortals. Costs: 5 Sustenance
--[X] Form of the Snowy Owl for Godbaby.
-[X] Explore the Land - Pick your way about the surface that you haven't explored. There is more to the land than a single people by the sea, and you must know it. Costs: 10 DE.
--[X] Go East and search for Spirits
---[X] x3
-[X] Study Stars - Study the skies and stars, seeking patterns that will tell you what was, what is, and what may yet be. (Highly Enhanced Effectiveness of all sub-actions)
--[X] Develop Ritual of the Deep Expanse. Costs: 12 DE
-[X] Study Omens - Study the thrown bones, the light of the sun upon the clouds, and the entrails of the dead that will explain to you the results of your choices.
--[X] Read the Bones - Read the best way to do the things you wish done with the crafted bones. Will aid you in a number of ways during the turn, and reduce potential backlash. Costs: 8 DE
--[X] Develop Ritual of the Deep Expanse. Costs: 12 DE
-[X] Despise Trait - You do not like how the mortals view you and your powers. Remind them what you truly represent and how you truly are! Costs: (Must reserve no destructive acts associated with the forgotten trait)
--[X] Despise <Cold>
--[X] Despise <Frost>
-[X] Improve a Shrine - Invest a great deal of materials and ornaments to make [Saiga's Fishing Village] grander. Costs: 5 DE.
--[X] Expand the Chamber of Change (T3 Grand): A room filled with reflective surfaces, and space for the light of the sun or moon to shine through, granting ???.
---[X] Dedicate okay and moderate bone figurines
-[X] Commune with Saiga. Costs: 0.5 Sustenance per choice
--[X] Request that the child be more like him than us(Faith).
--[X] Lay with him for a God child, contributing 11 Ambrosia for attributes, and 18 sustenance for specific traits
---[X] Shrine 4
---[X] Avatar 5
---[X] Influence 2
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Spirit of Death
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Aspect of the Snowy Owl
-[X] Commune with Attrouska
--[X] Discuss your vision
-[X] Commune with Saitev
--[X] Discuss your vision
-[X] Meet with Mo'sagao, who will probably demand a contest when you meet him. Costs: 0.5 Sustenance per option, 5 DE (One time)
--[X] Request something
---[X] Ask about his Pantheon and whereabouts.
-[X] Bother Seski
-[X] Sing to Rashelki
-[X] Study Omens with Ghette
-[X] Tell Gaelte of Sea Creatures you've seen.


Alright so here's my plan. No Water actions to best avoid Doom on that side and doing Inspire instead as well as Blacken.

Heavy on rituals right now, refining Ocean Ritual with Omens and stars to find exact cost and what materials needed. Added study bones to better avoid Doom.

Despising both Cold and Frost to avoid freezing people. Creating Chamber of Change for bloodlines.

Talking with Attrouska and Saitev for better understanding doom as well as preparing them. Talking with Keshletev to start building up Figurines for ritual. Talking to Fox tp find rest of pantheon.

Playing with kids because of course.

God Child, Owl of Death.
 
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@Sivantic would you consider going all in on the ocean ritual instead of splitting it between siren and ocean? Minor spirit of the siren frankly isn't going to solve way of our upcoming problems, and we need additional water fast if that is the solution we are going for. Better to overinvest in one ritual rather than not getting the one we would actually be performing to save ourself.
 
@Sivantic would you consider going all in on the ocean ritual instead of splitting it between siren and ocean? Minor spirit of the siren frankly isn't going to solve way of our upcoming problems, and we need additional water fast if that is the solution we are going for. Better to overinvest in one ritual rather than not getting the one we would actually be performing to save ourself.
*blinks*
It is all in.

I'm doing Study Stars and Study Omens for it. That's what we need to find out how much and what kind of Figurines it needs.
 
VISIONS (Because you have a fair amount of mysticism and some magic/mysteries spirit/premonitions spirit): Visions for you explain a rough series of events or an end goal (event). A hidden roll dictates the final timetable of any given vision (the period it can affect you or others and the point at which it must be fulfilled, lest the power behind it collapse). As long as you're still inside the vision's timetable, Fate conspires to make it so. Fate's hand can vary, from minor things, such as the original adversary of a vision changing suddenly when a better candidate appears, to direct, heavy-handed interference, such as impossible stumbles, inhuman exertions of will and effort, even direct manipulation of the minds of mortals or Divines. The level of Fate's interference is also checked regularly through hidden rolls, but the closer a Vision is to fulfillment, the more powerfully, and often, Fate interferes.

All visions contain obvious countermeasures, though of course these can fall prey to "Fated to Be" tropes. Killing the metaphorical baby who will slay you while it's still in the cradle, at best, ends up a little better than 80/20, and any subsequent attempt after the first failure is progressively less and less effective, up until the point that the 'baby' has so many mechanical check advantages that they near-literally cannot fail against your machinations. Twisting Fate and Shifting Stars can affect the [Fated To Be] trope protection of a target, or protect the Divine itself from carrying out unwanted acts, but it's never a sure thing.

There is also, hidden within most visions, a less obtrusive or blunt method of 'breaking' a Vision before it's timetable runs out. If you can successfully crack a malefic vision before it comes to pass, you often gain legend for it, while letting it run it's course gives you nothing.

Finally, [Traits Redacted] are especially capable of enforcing or defeating vision effects, as are Divines who possess [Trait Redacted].

Due to having Mysticism, Spirit of Mystery, and Spirit of Premonitions, your visions are much less metaphorically minded, which is both an advantage and a penalty, as the subtle 'holes' from a vision are also more specific and literal.
 
Maleficent visions are BAD FOR YOU in some way or another, the same as Unfettered visions are good.

In the case of... say... the Frozen Wasteland vision, there's solid odds I'll hijack your votes by part to bring it about, or simply add near-stupid numbers of successes to acts that could assist in bringing the vision about by the appointed time.
Honestly, this sounds poorly designed. That means that these negative visions are SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER than any positive attempt at reading the future has ever been. As opposed to just twisted, that's twisted and significantly amplified.
 
@Sivantos @veekie as main planmakers please also consider the following:

Avoiding clubmurder propably won'tbe as easy as not doing anything about them. We should talk with Saiga about his little trip, abd either make sure he doesn't go there, or use him to get a favorable first contact.
 
Honestly, this sounds poorly designed. That means that these negative visions are SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER than any positive attempt at reading the future has ever been. As opposed to just twisted, that's twisted and significantly amplified.
Like I said, your hidden rolls to figure on which ones you'd pick up were all shit. Out of five dice you should have at least gotten one or two Unfettered visions, at least a single neutral one.
 
DE 266-5(Temple)-20(Explore)-16(Mystic)-9(Empower Realm)-5(Exert Will)-35(Yellow Moon)-26(Darken)-30(Moonlight)-120(Inspires) = 0/266
Ambrosia 12 -1(Refuel) -11(Godbaby) = 0/12
Sustenance 40-5(upkeep)+10(refuel)-1.5(pantheon)-0.5(Shrines)-0.5(Despise)-2(Explore) -2(Mystic)-27(Baby)-5(Shapeshift) = 7(8 if meeting Saiga and Saitev for exploration is free)+0.5(if meeting Saiga for the baby doesn't cost 0.5 sustenance)/40
Divine Realm 31+9(refuel)/40

[X] Plan Honeymoon Baby
Divine Actions:
-[] Bless Petitioner for Growth - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you, granting them a bounty of life-giving things. Current Skills that can be blessed: Navigation, Fishing, Survival.
--[] Survival

-[X] Inspire Petitioner - Expend DE to give inspiring visions and dreams to a petitioner who comes to your shrine or prays to you. Inspirations are naturally stronger than Blessings, but affect a more limited number of people. Inspirations can target individuals of choice and grant specific skills. Costs: 5 DE x24 = 120 DE
--[X] Astrology x5
--[X] Omen Reading x5
--[X] Mysticism x5
--[X] Survival x9
-[X] Moonlight** - The moon shines bright this night, revealing things that hide in the dark. Can cause Weird, also empowers a number of relevant actions (Avatar actions using Trickery, Astrology, etc. and Influence Acts excluding Blessings or Inspirations). Costs: 30 DE
--[X] In your territory
-[X] Yellow Moon* - The shine of the Full Moon in all it's glory, timed with the fertility of the woman and the greatest virility of the man. Greatly increases Fertility and empowers Blessings. Costs: 35 DE
--[X] In your territory
-[X] Darken** - Artificially draw away the light, strongly enhancing Melee, Ranged, War, Trickery, and Survival skill tests. Costs: 13 DE x2 = 26 DE
--[X] In your territory

Realm Actions:
-[X] Empower Realm - Pay 9 DE to reserve more energy for upkeep.
-[X] Exert Will - Pay 5 DE per effect or gateway added to your realm.
--[X] Extend Dark Pool entrance to new temple.

Avatar Actions:
-[X] Study Stars - Study the skies and stars, seeking patterns that will tell you what was, what is, and what may yet be. (Highly Enhanced Effectiveness of all sub-actions)
--[X] Read the Future - Look forward to what has not yet been, but may yet be. Will aid you in a number of ways during the turn, including direct mechanical bonuses with high enough success, and warn you of potential dangers in future turns. Costs: 8 DE
--[] Develop Ritual of Unknowable Bodies. Costs: 12 DE
-[X] Study Omens - Study the thrown bones, the light of the sun upon the clouds, and the entrails of the dead that will explain to you the results of your choices.
--[X] Read the Bones - Read the best way to do the things you wish done with the crafted bones. Will aid you in a number of ways during the turn, and reduce potential backlash. Costs: 8 DE
-[X] Explore the Land - Pick your way about the surface that you haven't explored. There is more to the land than a single people by the sea, and you must know it. Costs: 10 DE x2 = 20 DE.
-[X] Change your Divine Form - Take on the appearance of a mortal creature or strange elemental manifestation to camouflage yourself, or speak directly to mortals. Costs: 5 Sustenance
--[X] Form of the Snowy Owl for Godbaby.

Commune Actions:
-[X] Despise Trait - You do not like how the mortals view you and your powers. Remind them what you truly represent and how you truly are! Costs: (Must reserve no destructive acts associated with the forgotten trait)
--[X] Spirit of Death
--[] Elemental Affinity - Cold
--[] Elemental Affinity - Frost


-[] Leave a shrine to ruin.
--[] Gaerig's Fishing Village Shrine


-[X] Improve a Shrine - Invest a great deal of materials and ornaments to make Keshketev Caldera Temple grander. Costs: 5 DE.
--[X] Dedicate Gemmed Figurines (1 Okay, 1 Moderate, 1 Good) to improving the temple ONLY if it would help to construct the expansions.
--[] Move the Painted Stars from Gaerig's Fishing Village Shrine over to the Temple
---[] Expend additional materials as neccessary

--[X] Expand the Chamber of Change (T3 Grand): A room filled with reflective surfaces, and space for the light of the sun or moon to shine through, granting ???.
---[X] Expend additional materials as neccessary

-[X] Commune with Saiga. Costs: 0.5 Sustenance per choice
--[X] Join his exploring expedition and warn him of your visions
--[X] Lay with him for a God child, contributing 11 Ambrosia for attributes, and 27 sustenance for specific traits
---[X] Shrine 5
---[X] Avatar 5
---[X] Influence 1
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Aspect of Humanity
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Aspect of the Snowy Owl
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Elemental Affinity - Sky

-[X] Commune with Saitev. Costs: 0.5 Sustenance per choice
--[X] Join his exploring expedition and warn him of your visions

 
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So basically Twist Fate gives us Quests, but the game is rigged. Silver Moon combined with all of our mystical actions gave us a chance to view the rules of the game through, fogged glass.
@Sivantos @veekie as main planmakers please also consider the following:

Avoiding clubmurder propably won'tbe as easy as not doing anything about them. We should talk with Saiga about his little trip, abd either make sure he doesn't go there, or use him to get a favorable first contact.
Saiga's trip is with us going East. He's also going to sleep next turn. We're fine on that end.
 
Like I said, your hidden rolls to figure on which ones you'd pick up were all shit. Out of five dice you should have at least gotten one or two Unfettered visions, at least a single neutral one.
You misunderstand. I'm not just referring to this turn. I'm talking about the quest as a whole. In terms of effect on the game, these visions probably rank among the most powerful effects that have ever occurred in the quest that didn't involve Harzivan. Which makes no sense because the actions that spawned them weren't that powerful.

What I'm getting at is that invoking broad sweeping, multi-turn, strong alteration fate effects should not have even been a possibility in the first place. Good or bad, it shouldn't have been on the table in the first place. Because actions that were "twisted" weren't nearly as strong.

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Study Future
Ritual Astrology
Study Bones
Ritual Entrails

The sum total impact of all four of these together is less than a single one of those vision effects . Though admittedly I can't seem to find any indication of what "Mystic Rituals" is or why we rolled it.
 
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Okay, next, reasoning:
-[X] Inspire Petitioner - Expend DE to give inspiring visions and dreams to a petitioner who comes to your shrine or prays to you. Inspirations are naturally stronger than Blessings, but affect a more limited number of people. Inspirations can target individuals of choice and grant specific skills. Costs: 5 DE x24 = 120 DE
--[X] Astrology x5
--[X] Omen Reading x5
--[X] Mysticism x5
--[X] Survival x9
-[X] Moonlight** - The moon shines bright this night, revealing things that hide in the dark. Can cause Weird, also empowers a number of relevant actions (Avatar actions using Trickery, Astrology, etc. and Influence Acts excluding Blessings or Inspirations). Costs: 30 DE
--[X] In your territory
-[X] Yellow Moon* - The shine of the Full Moon in all it's glory, timed with the fertility of the woman and the greatest virility of the man. Greatly increases Fertility and empowers Blessings. Costs: 35 DE
--[X] In your territory
-[X] Darken** - Artificially draw away the light, strongly enhancing Melee, Ranged, War, Trickery, and Survival skill tests. Costs: 13 DE x2 = 26 DE
--[X] In your territory
Yellow Moon - This buffs Fertility, so it should help add some kick to the godbaby without resorting to Blood Moon(which is a bit of a mixed blessing)
Darken - This buffs Survival, and since we're exploring this turn, it adds a fair bit.
Giant Scad of Inspirations - Might as well get everyone in on the exploration fun right?
-[X] Empower Realm - Pay 9 DE to reserve more energy for upkeep.
-[X] Exert Will - Pay 5 DE per effect or gateway added to your realm.
--[X] Extend Dark Pool entrance to new temple.
Open a door so our pantheon members can reach it.

-[X] Despise Trait - You do not like how the mortals view you and your powers. Remind them what you truly represent and how you truly are! Costs: (Must reserve no destructive acts associated with the forgotten trait) x3
--[X] Spirit of Death
--[X] Elemental Affinity - Cold
--[X] Elemental Affinity - Frost
Cycle out to free up trait slots. They'd be back soon enough.
-[X] Leave a shrine to ruin.
--[X] Gaerig's Fishing Village Shrine

-[X] Improve a Shrine - Invest a great deal of materials and ornaments to make Keshketev Caldera Temple grander. Costs: 5 DE.
--[X] Dedicate Gemmed Figurines (1 Okay, 1 Moderate, 1 Good) to improving the temple
--[X] Move the Painted Stars from Gaerig's Fishing Village Shrine over to the Temple
---[X] Expend additional materials as neccessary
--[X] Expand the Chamber of Change (T3 Grand): A room filled with reflective surfaces, and space for the light of the sun or moon to shine through, granting ???.
---[X] Expend additional materials as neccessary
Move the Painted Stars to the new temple, which would have a portal to our Divine Realm opened, so we can use the Divine Realm bonus AND the Wonder bonus at once. Unfortunately it means ruining the old shrine, but we'd replace it next turn.

Chamber of Change boosts fertility too when the color moons are up, and I figure it should have some interesting effects with our Divine Realm light/godbaby.
--[X] Lay with him for a God child, contributing 11 Ambrosia for attributes, and 27 sustenance for specific traits
---[X] Shrine 6
---[X] Avatar 5
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Aspect of Humanity
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Aspect of the Snowy Owl
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Elemental Affinity - Sky
Saiga losing to Bloody Man? Then we'd bloody well fix that. An Avatar 5 aerial attacker, with Aspect of Humanity(and thus a more human form) so he can pick up archery. Two Aerial traits between Sky and Owl.

Outside of combat, he can probably pick up weather traits fairly easily, but his main purpose is averting the two Bloody Man visions.
Aspect of Humanity also biases him towards Faith, in case Saiga forgot.

Why now? Saiga just told us, next turn is his last exploration for a while, he's going to sleep. We'd have his son guard the stead in his stead.
 
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-[X] Commune with Saiga. Costs: 0.5 Sustenance per choice
--[X] Lay with him for a God child, contributing 11 Ambrosia for attributes, and 18 sustenance for specific traits
---[X] Shrine 2
---[X] Avatar 4
---[X] Influence 5
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Classical Element - Water
---[X] 9 Sustenance for Elemental Affinity - Sky
All right so here's the God child I'm putting forth. Water and Sky to help push them into being a weather god and help us with our too little water problem. For that they need higher Influence than avatar. Saiga will most likely already be supplying animal traits and humanity. Not as personally beefy as veekie but Avatar 4 is still up ther for a newborn.
 
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You misunderstand. I'm not just referring to this turn. I'm talking about the quest as a whole. In terms of effect on the game, these visions probably rank among the most powerful effects that have ever occurred in the quest that didn't involve Harzivan. Which makes no sense because the actions that spawned them weren't that powerful.

What I'm getting at is that invoking broad sweeping, multi-turn, strong alteration fate effects should not have even been a possibility in the first place. Good or bad, it shouldn't have been on the table in the first place. Because actions that were "twisted" weren't nearly as strong.

edit:

Study Future
Ritual Astrology
Study Bones
Ritual Entrails

The sum total impact of all four of these together is less than a single one of those vision effects . Though admittedly I can't seem to find any indication of what "Mystic Rituals" is or why we rolled it.
That's sort of the point of Silver Moon. You're trading consistently positive effects for dubiously helpful, if significantly more powerful effects. Silver Moon is LET IT RIDE, BABY! You just ended up with the metaphorical snake eyes.

Fate's hand is pretty weak, as well, especially if you're actively working to curb it. You generally won't see more than a strong mod or an extra half-success until you're in the last phases of the vision. Sure, if you try to hamhand it and fuck up you could potentially create a being that rolls 200 or higher every single time they check against you, but that's really not all that likely, and if the only thing you're doing is hamhanded 'slay the babe' tropes, you kind of deserve it.
 
Oof. I like veekie's godbaby and the honey moon, but I think it plays into a strategy of no water so he can trick us into eclipse soon. I will have to think about this.
 
Owl baby. Hmm.

So basically, we saw our husbando's bro and decided to make our own giant bird minion?
Death From Above the kid yes.

Oof. I like veekie's godbaby and the honey moon, but I think it plays into a strategy of no water so he can trick us into eclipse soon. I will have to think about this.
While Eclipse is on my agenda, I don't believe we're anywhere near in position for ritualing it up. Inscrutable One -> Omen Reader -> Mystic -> Human -> Octopus/Owl-> Chimera have still been promised and not yet delivered.

And fearbuying it is next to impossible without intentionally spamming Weirds(which would trigger Waterdooms first) every turn.
 
Fate's hand is pretty weak, as well, especially if you're actively working to curb it. You generally won't see more than a strong mod or an extra half-success until you're in the last phases of the vision. Sure, if you try to hamhand it and fuck up you could potentially create a being that rolls 200 or higher every single time they check against you, but that's really not all that likely, and if the only thing you're doing is hamhanded 'slay the babe' tropes, you kind of deserve it.
Well that's a relief compared to your previous mention of
  • hijack your votes
  • add near-stupid numbers of successes to acts that could assist in bringing the vision about by the appointed time.
  • direct manipulation of the minds of mortals or Divines
  • the prophecy being retroactively rewritten because someone or something more appropriate for it showed up than was originally available, which in turn would make working against it a matter of reading your mind about what can change and what can't
as for the hamhanded thing, consider whether or not you really want that to be a thing when the time comes for a good prophecy to be supercharged by deliberately acting hamhandedly against it
 
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@veekie - are all of those inspirations necessary for income, or could we use some of that DE for ritual refinement?


Yeah I was thinking about it after I typed it. I think it will be less trick and more of a 'well we probably don't have time for water to fix this, let's just go with what we already do'. Trick was an uncharitable presentation of that.
Mmm. I guess I've just been feeling almost harrassed on veekie's behalf by some of the thread's temperature?

Like, fuck. The guy is a player, he's allowed to have goals and wants for the PC too. This doesn't make him an...evil mastermind.


Nevermind that we literally just ensured another inherent water trait.
 
Well that's a relief compared to your previous mention of
  • hijack your votes
  • add near-stupid numbers of successes to acts that could assist in bringing the vision about by the appointed time.
  • direct manipulation of the minds of mortals or Divines
  • the prophecy being retroactively rewritten because someone or something more appropriate for it showed up than was originally available, which in turn would make working against it a matter of reading your mind about what can change and what can't
as for the hamhanded thing, consider whether or not you really want that to be a thing when the time comes for a good prophecy to be supercharged by deliberately acting hamhandedly against it
It can still do those things, they're just not especially likely unless you've already accidentally made too much progress in that direction.
 
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