Remove ads

Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

Reader mode
Powerofmind said:
True... 50% of unspent only? It would certainly make it a scary effort to contribute to... Or maybe minimum 10... Idk.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The latter sounds like it might work.

Maybe you could make it 10% of spent legend? That means that the Ur-child effectively has to get to 1/10 of their ascension threshold before paying you back legend, which I think is a reasonable threshold. Though if you are doing that, it might be better to use unspent legend at the beginning of the turn instead of unspent legend at the end of the turn to calculate the ascension threshold so that the 10% requirement actually matches it.

In the previous turn, that would have been at least 2.4 per child. After out latest run, it would be up to (58-14)/10 = 4.4. Later it will grow higher.
 
PrimalShadow said:
For those of us who are slow today, what exactly does Saiga not know?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

With respect to the Crone? A lot of things. Like how she came into power, the fact that [Imprisoned One] even exists, what her greatest strengths are, etc.

All he really knows is that she exists, tends to hide out in the villages that she calls her own, and is in charge.

We know a touch more than he does, actually. Kind of strange.

My best guess is that he was sleeping for some upgrade or another when it happened.
 
@Powerofmind are there human-scale magics? I'm wondering if we'd be able to find out more about the vasic fundamentals of second magic from a tribal shaman or something.

also is it still possible to breed with objects, and if so what gates that ability?
 
Lailoken said:
Didn't you say that he ascended while still alive?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, you said that, and I presented an alternate possibility.
Lailoken said:
Well, the other advantages of Demispirits and Monsters don't appear to apply to the successors unless they're really deeply bred in over multiple generations of cross-breeding from multiple similar Demis, and even then only some of them to a limited degree. They don't get immunity to the spirit tier malus, nor direct access to full-power traits. Demispirits and monsters are no match for a spirit on their own, but they aren't nothing either and already seem pretty balanced what with the ambrosia cost and legend investment. The issue was that they could be abused by being farmed for ridiculous amounts of legend, which is less of a concern if they now require a considerable upfront legend investment in addition to the ambrosia. Making their payback be all-or-nothing or requiring a permanent weakening of the progenitor seems like hobbling them to the point where they're no longer a really a competitive investment, especially for fear spirits despite their already need ways to project beyond influence ranges much more than faith spirits.

Ideally, I'd think that a spawn-focused build should be a serious competitor, just not so much so that it gets tacked on to every build as an afterthought. Perhaps require the investment and grant no automatic legend generation, but guarantee return of the legend after death? It would still grant useful minions who could be directed to productive purposes, but would put a serious trade-off on the quantity while avoid their turning into an automatic legend-hose.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because making it so you can freely produce demispirits with no penalty for spamming them into their own death is definitionally not breaking the system with a legend-hose.[/sarcasm] Your sole reason for removing the biggest penalty for Ur-children is that it prevents them from being competitive, but you also don't like it when demispirits can be shat at people and provide legend like a farm, even if they die by the drove. You can't have this particular cake and eat it too, the two concepts are diametrically opposed. I can't limit the legend farm without either a) limiting demispirit creation, which invalidates the spawn-god or b) making the legend investment a gamble, so that you aren't rewarded for ham-fistedly throwing children at a problem until it goes away.
PrimalShadow said:
The latter sounds like it might work.

Maybe you could make it 10% of spent legend? That means that the Ur-child effectively has to get to 1/10 of their ascension threshold before paying you back legend, which I think is a reasonable threshold. Though if you are doing that, it might be better to use unspent legend at the beginning of the turn instead of unspent legend at the end of the turn to calculate the ascension threshold so that the 10% requirement actually matches it.

In the previous turn, that would have been at least 2.4 per child. After out latest run, it would be up to (58-14)/10 = 4.4. Later it will grow higher.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That may be the best way to go about doing it. I could go for that, but it does come with the issue that the child could potentially never hit it's legend threshold while being led along by a hairs' breadth from it, just because the parent naturally always spends legend. It won't hurt to consider some mechanical twists and tricks, since I've got at least a turn before this can happen.
mastigos said:
@Powerofmind are there human-scale magics? I'm wondering if we'd be able to find out more about the vasic fundamentals of second magic from a tribal shaman or something.

also is it still possible to breed with objects, and if so what gates that ability?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is very, very little a human can do for magic. It is normally only possible for an unaugmented human to perform magic in the late Amber Age, and even then, they will likely need something crafted using superhuman talent to cast with.

Yes, Godhood.
mastigos said:
I was more thinking breeding with the ritual pool mid wildmagic ritual. We make the BEST decisions
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That one is literally impossible. An object is not a place. They are both nouns, but there's a difference.
 
PrimalShadow said:
For those of us who are slow today, what exactly does Saiga not know?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well he doesn't know when the keeper of secrets(by the by for 40k fans that's the title that greater daemons of Slannesh bear, the ones who serve the god of excess). Showed up or even when she truly took control.

He also seems unable to realize that we are the thing that's causing problems/he was warned about. Possibly because of our first impressions and tricking him?
 
Powerofmind said:
That may be the best way to go about doing it. I could go for that, but it does come with the issue that the child could potentially never hit it's legend threshold while being led along by a hairs' breadth from it, just because the parent naturally always spends legend.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I actually meant the numbers to be static at birth; I forgot that you were making ascension work based on at-death Legend. You are right; that makes things somewhat trickier.

Dream Logic said:
He also seems unable to realize that we are the thing that's causing problems/he was warned about. Possibly because of our first impressions and tricking him?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure we are that thing. We might be, but we might also not be; I wouldn't be surprised if there was a major disaster scheduled for turn 25 or something.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'm not sure we are that thing. We might be, but we might also not be; I wouldn't be surprised if there was a major disaster scheduled for turn 25 or something.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure that we are. The Crone has no probably obligations to relay her predictions completely or at least without putting her own spin on them.
Since she is in charge of this region, we are certainly a huge threat and great disaster for her spot in the pecking oder.
 
I was thinking about that as well.

It's vague enough that from an OOC perspective, I can easily see that IF WE HYPOTHETICALLY decide to become a domesticated Faith spirit, then something ELSE comes from the sea to fulfill the prophecy.

I'd rather act as if it's us, but be prepared in case it's not.

Edited for clarity.
 
Last edited:
Pandemonious Ivy said:
I was thinking about that as well.

It's vague enough that from an OOC perspective, I can easily see that we decide to become a domesticated Faith spirit, then something ELSE comes from the sea to fulfill the prophecy.

I'd rather act as if it's us, but be prepared in case it's not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

no, I refuse to become a faith spirit until we can awesome and fearful.

Fear all the way until then.
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
I was thinking about that as well.

It's vague enough that from an OOC perspective, I can easily see that we decide to become a domesticated Faith spirit, then something ELSE comes from the sea to fulfill the prophecy.

I'd rather act as if it's us, but be prepared in case it's not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
ninjafish said:
no, I refuse to become a faith spirit until we can awesome and fearful.

Fear all the way until then.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Panda, I'll ask you to play devils advocate here and tell me all the good things we could have if were were to Faith, down the line. Because we seem pretty set to stay Fear, baring unforeseen rolls.

Because, like a Fear Spirit, I feed on your pain.
 
Considering that our Fear Spirit ways would lead to conflicts anyway, I don't think that we need to adjust our plans that much. If it's not the Evil Thing From the Sea, it's fighting the Crone for dominance or an outside invasion or retalatory raids from our targets.
Harzivan didn't go on an omnicidal rampage out of the blue, but because conflict did happen on it's own. I doubt it will be any different this time and if we hadn't lucked out with Saiga, we might even have had our first Spirit vs. Spirit combat.
 
*sigh*

You silly fucking goose.

I was using that as an example for why I'm not assuming we're the threat. If we change, so can the plans for the game, theoretically.
 
First things first ---

Powerofmind said:
You learn that for a long time now, Attrouska has seen terrible futures, so Saiga and Saitev - a raven spirit and apparent close friend of Saiga's - have been careful not to overextend themselves for many years
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your first mortal conquest is a fine-looking young man from Saiga's village, who you take into the bones of your new shrine to bed under cover of night. There is a feeling of purpose and power within you and you nurture it a little before you leave, bidding Saiga a temporary farewell. Your second comes from one of your own people, as you draw him towards your shrine at night, away from his wife.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In your travels, you find a curious little creature with many tentacles, so small as to fit in your hand. In a fit of curiosity, you decide to also add it to your list of conquests! The logistics are tricky, but you eventually manage to coax it to give you another child.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A small number of tiny eggs, maybe a dozen, free themselves from you suddenly, and you sequester them away near the bottom of your Holy Place, around the depth you'd found them at so they grow as best as they can! The second child, and first you'd taken into yourself, is born later, in your shrine. The birth is painful, more than once you snap at the old women who remain by your side to try to help you birth it, but eventually the child comes out, and his sister shortly after. There is some light bowing and praising when the women see the children for the first time; your son has strange eyes that do not match, one blue, one silver, while your daughter has only bright blue ones on her pudgy little smiling face.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
!!!!BABIES!!!! (You have no idea how much I wanted to use 5 exclamation marks.) No Ur-Beast yet, unfortunately, but BABIES! Oh my stars, I love each and every single one of them already. Pity that the boy from Saiga's village's man died. (Just goes to show those people are weak and need more of Gaerig's children to make them stronger, right?!) Also note the adultery, but also note Gaerig (the Sea) and Saiga (the Fisherman) entered into and consummated a symbolic marriage. I would be absolutely unsurprised if the rules about adultery re: fishermen, sailors, etc. become very very fluid in the future.

Your body emaciates itself, and for a split second there is only a terrible, terrible hunger before it bloats and explodes, joining your shrines as they bring daylight to the long night, and as the earth shudders near each separate ground zero, panic overtakes everyone in amounts you've never felt before, never comprehended before.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If this eventually spawns a Sun Fear spirit, I will laugh and laugh and laugh. Won't happen unless we explode with regularity, probably, but explosive daylight in the middle of Long Night rather cements the association of disaster and sunlight during night. Also, irony! Tried to decrease the probability that we'll buy traits to keep from exploding. AND THEN WE EXPLODED! Before buying traits! This is hilarious!

Powerofmind said:
This is where I tell you that Gaerig, as a component of Saiga's prayers for basically all of recent history, is a culturally generated blindspot for him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Powerofmind said:
Now, so many years later, decades after the Great Warning, you cannot remember the last time you have sought out the distant places, paddled across the span to Goegg. You die a little, every day, keeping a close eye on the horizon for the dangers the Crone has warned you of, forever tempted with the sight of unexplored places, but bound where you are, for the sake of your people, for all the people on Niogg. A threat that could topple everything you had built, everything the Crone had grown for you, gone, twisted under a cruel boot. You would never allow it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh you poor boy. I feel so sorry. Unfortunately for you, I love whump fic and you haven't been hurt enough! Though, how did Gaerig become a blindspot for Saiga? Gaerig's success with tricking Saiga into not interfering with her terrorizing of his worshipers, mixing with high Vehemence turns for Gaerig to establish Saiga simply can't acknowledge Gaerig's destructive actions? ...Doesn't jive with Saiga's condition that Gaerig stop attacking his worshipers. Also, if we encountered Saiga through Astrology rather than hearing from our worshipers, would [Imprisoned One] also be an adequate descriptor of Saiga? The thoughts from Saiga's interlude echo the italics from that turn...? Though, this might lessen the chance we can use [The Imprisoned One] as an ally against Attrouska, if the prison is also self-imposed against Us.

As for voting... we have no Avatar, so no exploring or more babies, yet, unfortunately. Growing the population for the turn is just as well.
[X] Minimizing the Aftermath

Pandemonious Ivy said:
I'm glad you're caught up now, @lioli, welcome to the insanity
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
ETA: Aw thanks! I would have been overjoyed anyways, since we got babies (BABIES!), but the crazy explosions really enhanced the giddiness the update evoked.
 
Last edited:
Poor Saiga.

lets get him to blame all his troubles on the crone.

The Crone is evil, And we will bring atonement upon her and band of wretches... by the Wrath of Mother Gaerig.
 
Point. I was assuming it was a mortons fork where because of what we are(pc and SV hivemind) she had retroactively seen it because she had always seen what we would be(because offscreen gives a lot of wiggle room).
 
Last edited:
nixter said:
Sounds good to me. How about we wait until we hit the local god level and create an underwater civilization get awesome and fearful.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can get it now. We just need to sacrifice those juicy little mortals a few to times to unlock it. We're killing them already, we just need to make it a bit more... official.
 
Powerofmind said:
No, you said that, and I presented an alternate possibility.

Because making it so you can freely produce demispirits with no penalty for spamming them into their own death is definitionally not breaking the system with a legend-hose.[/sarcasm] Your sole reason for removing the biggest penalty for Ur-children is that it prevents them from being competitive, but you also don't like it when demispirits can be shat at people and provide legend like a farm, even if they die by the drove. You can't have this particular cake and eat it too, the two concepts are diametrically opposed. I can't limit the legend farm without either a) limiting demispirit creation, which invalidates the spawn-god or b) making the legend investment a gamble, so that you aren't rewarded for ham-fistedly throwing children at a problem until it goes away.

That may be the best way to go about doing it. I could go for that, but it does come with the issue that the child could potentially never hit it's legend threshold while being led along by a hairs' breadth from it, just because the parent naturally always spends legend. It won't hurt to consider some mechanical twists and tricks, since I've got at least a turn before this can happen.

There is very, very little a human can do for magic. It is normally only possible for an unaugmented human to perform magic in the late Amber Age, and even then, they will likely need something crafted using superhuman talent to cast with.

Yes, Godhood.

That one is literally impossible. An object is not a place. They are both nouns, but there's a difference.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Powerofmind said:
The original legend of the character Saiga that allowed him to ascend to spirit, when he was alive, was that he went out and slew an orca in the sea single-handedly, then swam it back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Am I just plain reading this wrong? It's not the first time there seems to have been some sort of fundamental misunderstanding about it. It looks like you explicitly saying that he ascended to spirit when alive rather than after his death.

You have already put a cap on the number of demis. You don't think that requiring legend and attribute commitment puts a strong limit on how many a spirit can hold simultaneously? If demispirits require legend, they can't be produced freely, because they are limited by the amount of legend available. Legend which cannot then be used for other purposes on top of also limiting the number of demispirits. The proposal to remove the permanent legend loss if they didn't earn enough was to also remove the legend gain if they did, rendering them just a simple limited-quantity legend sink into useful minions.
The other option presented was to make legend payback from them gradual instead of all-or-nothing. If they die before they pay themselves back there's still a loss of the remaining difference. They still represent an investment, and treating them as disposable will cost the spirit, but the the variance is less extreme. It also avoids the issue of legend dumps when demis get killed suddenly pumping their progenitors because their legend contribution has already been harvested as it was accumulated.

Nowhere did I suggest, "Eliminate the legend risk, make them unlimited in quantity, make them dirt cheap, but keep the copious legend generation." I started with "tone down the cost and gamble a bit", and added an alternative of, "you're already limiting quantity, so it may be possible to eliminate the legend gamble by also eliminating the return on legend investment."
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top