The fertility option, for instance, if taken that way would involve us saving the lives of children in the womb in exchange for them being dedicated to us. That would likely manifest as them being great priests and hunters and other such figures, since they'd be specially marked by us or the like. People who spread our word and defend against any other tribes or groups that might muscle in. With us aiding in fishing, we could support a larger population than other possibly-nearby islands, allowing us to slowly guide our people to general dominance.
More specifically, the thing is, the story hasn't even started yet: we don't know what we're going to face, so I'm not sure how we can have a 'fifty turn plan.'
I'm also sure as heck that YOU don't actually have a fifty year plan, just vague goals. Just like us.
I'm not trying to advocate for a 50 turn plan. I'm trying to point out that blessing for glory, or the water spirit equivalent of blessing the fishermen, gets old fast.
harzivan's story was livened up by going on great hunts, by leading our warriors against other tribes, and then with dealing with the River Mother, the Fish Trader, The Fire thief. yes, we fought things as our main calling, but there was always more going on. Interpersonal interaction to deal with, to cause change, to create conflict.
As an isolationist, how are we going to get that?
As an elemental spirit, what meaningful interactions are we going to have with our worshippers?
As a fear spirit, what non-violent meaningful interactions would we have with
anybody?
Being a river spirit by itself won't cut it. we'll have to evolve into bigger and better things. Like you said with fertility, that'd be neat.
But that brings me back to my other points; this doesn't actually solve any of the problems people seem to have with lawgiver. Either we're going to become a jack-of-all trades to deal with all our peoples needs, and become Harzivan-lite with a different start, or we're going to have to deal with friendly allied spirits and find ourselves at the head of a pantheon. And if we're going to have to deal with those issues, why not deal with them in the way of our choosing? Lawmaker does this.
Don't worry so much, bro. I've accounted for a lot of the major choices and paths you can take, and I do have means of keeping all of them engaging for quite some time (in terms of the grand narrative, I give no promises about the turn-by-turn). I also wouldn't have included that particular environment scenario if I didn't have a fairly good idea where you could go with it (not to say I can't whip something up for a custom environment, but those four were the ones I had at the forefront of my mind).
Fear spirits are supposed to be a tumult of fighting, and of adversity, at least at first. When pantheons form, there's places pure fear spirits can find in them, even if they're not especially welcome. Loki is a pretty good example of a god who draws more power from fear and destruction than faith, and he's one of the three big names in the Norse pantheon. Wanton destruction and death isn't forever with a fear spirit, just as crafting isn't your only choice with a crafter spirit and healing isn't the only thing you'll ever ever do with a healer spirit.
I
am worried by the turn-by-turn, unless you end up updating pretty frequently. I mean, we have to read this stuff, it's best for each individual segment to be worth reading, right? I'm glad to hear you've got a plan, but I still think that having the players help you create an engaging story will be better than having the players turtle up on an island afraid of meeting other gods for fear that they might be
friendly, the horror!
Different people want different things, so it's hard to say what kind of water spirit we'll be and i'm trying to argue against all of them at once. Shit's hard. But the common themes I've noticed are
1- Fear spirit
2- hate pantheons
3- I don't like lawmaker specifically out of all the options because reasons?!?
Specifically, the complaint that I saw was about being the head of a pantheon, which is rather different than being a part of one. I, for one, habe no problems playing second fiddle to another god provided they don't hard-lock me out of my own goals.
And I've suggested we not be the head of one. And then people objected to it. What am I supposed to do, wise one? (not sarcasm, that'd be rude. help me. i'm drowning in words right now. SO MANY WORDS. I can't argue everything at once!)
For example, imagine a Spirit with low Shrine and high Influence with its followers spread across large distances, possibly even having them be nomadic. Such a build could overlap with multiple pantheons, staying neutral because both pantheons prevent the other from recruiting us.
With a Water Spirit this could easily be us having followers on both sides of the pond/sea despite those ports officially falling within the control of other gods.
Hmm. I'm not sure how viable these are, but I guess i'm not
horribly opposed to those ideas. I've specified in several of my arguments that 'I can't imagine...' or something similar, so really, tossing out ideas like this helps ease my concerns. Of course, these being likely to happen is another question... but not one i'm willing to get into, so whatever. thanks.
There is cool stuff a water spirit can do. We could become the patron god of proto vikings or something. Sponsor whalers and great expeditions to hunt sea creatures. Go on actual voyages and explore the world, which is harder for a countrybound spirit.
Hell, I don't even know. Sponsor sailing shrines to spread our name far and wide and roll 1d100 for random encounter each turn?
Eh. Given Omega's timely suggestion of being a nomad or having great influence and affecting multiple different groups at once, I can see this being more possible than before. But this still means getting involved in the affairs of mortals, and having an avatar, and just feels like more of an island warrior thing than a water spirit.
What do people see lawmaker as? I've spoken for a long time about my objections to water spirit, and I've spoken a bit about why I want lawgiver in particular (pinnacle of human interaction, shaper of society, etc), but I'd like to hear some objections to lawmaker that aren't something you're probably gonna have to deal with anyways.
Like, you can't say you hate pantheons, and then say that you want to be the ambassador and honorary member of 3 different pantheons as an 'independent' nomad. That's silly.
