Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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@naths We haven't had many opportunities to use either of those in combat. I don't see how SES could be unnecessary - dispel resistance is a must with our build. HDW should be more useful when we have both Zhengui and Hanyi.

@archangis I don't think spiritual avoid, which DLS focuses on, is very useful for us right now with Sixiang's dispels.
 
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Exploration is probably one of the only avenues we have to gain further Advanced Insights and potentially potent Arts--and the latter is becoming increasingly important now that we're mastering our current core stuff, and we can't count on the Cai Archive to give us successors for everything.

I think if you are hoping exploration is going to produce extravagant results, this isn't a good turn for it. A lot of the "oomph" of Ling Qi's exploratory arcs this turn might be swallowed by her Moon Quest, which would make an ordinary exploration AP easy to fall flat narratively.

1 AP ENM is not enough to make it anywhere close to viable, so you will want more AP to it and to equip it you will need another AP for meridian opening and these AP will need to come from somewhere and i would like to know which other Art you want to sacrifice for ENM.

I would just sacrifice more Physical Cultivation AP next turn if push came to shove. If we are doing ENM I would rather get to ENM 4 Turn 5 actually, which likely takes 4 total AP, would be 3 more. So Month 5 would look like:

4x Spiritual
1x Physical
1x Meridians
4x TRF
4x PLR
1x SCS
1x CDE
3x ENM
1x Tutoring (assuming we need it)

Basically ENM (4 training AP and 1 Meridian AP) comes at a cost of delaying Physical Cultivation by 4 AP and not exploring 1 AP.
 
I'm going to say it again, dismissing Exploration just because "If it doesn't give us something amazing it's a waste" seems like folly to me. We got that map for a reason, and it wasn't to shove it under our pillows and forget about it.

Major Sites after all have been proven to be super good, and even a minor site can be good if it's got Wind. Hell, what happens if we find a site that gives a modifier to Base Cultivation? Doesn't that save us an absurd amount of AP?
We aren't dismissing the map though, and I do think there is worth in "we are using the map to show Ling Qi is curious". Assuming the map is going to give us something, however, is folly.

We get three rolls per AP of exploration.

One AP give use 1-0.65^3=72% chance of getting a site or better. A site can go from 0.10 to 0.25 AP per use (minor or major). Given how we lack both a darkness site and a wind one, and that we will have hundreds of AP spent on arts, it's very likely we will get our money back so to speak.
We actually get two rolls per AP, Shen Hu gave +1 roll per AP, he was really useful. We also can't control the types of site we can get. Not only that, but we aren't going to have hundreds of AP spent on wind arts.

Getting a wind site is likely to give 10% increase in training speed for wind arts in particular, and so we'd not only need 10AP to 'make back' that AP spent, but we'd also need for us to not find a better site during that time, and every job also proc a exploration roll (and we do lots of jobs).

Currently, we aren't looking to get more than 2AP to wind arts before turn 8 if we go exploration this turn. Amusingly, if we do learn ENM, this changes. In the very best scenario where we get exactly what we are hoping for, exploration will maybe pay for itself next year. More likely though, we'd find another better site before then.

However, the chances of getting a wind site itself is pretty low. Not only do we need an above average roll, but we also need it to give the exact site type we want, and not, say, a fire or thunder or mountain or earth or water or whatever site instead.
 
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@naths I don't think we've had many opportunities to use either of those in combat. I don't see how SES could be unnecessary - dispel resistance is a must with our build. HDW should be more useful when we have both Zhengui and Hanyi.

@archangis I don't think spiritual avoid, which DLS focuses on, is very useful for us right now with Sixiang's dispels.

I think there was a missunderstanding. I have nothing against SES and HDW, in fact i was one of those who argued for HDW since we had it. What I meant is that archive 1 arts (including ENM) just are not the powerful options that FSS or SCS are, so we shouldnt argue as if ENM could be on that level.

Also, Spiritual Avoid is the derived Attribute from (Maipulation + Fade) and is used to to 'dodge' spiritual attacks (i.e. FSS uses those). Dispel is used to dispel debuffs or buffs instead.
 
I think there was a missunderstanding. I have nothing against SES and HDW, in fact i was one of those who argued for HDW since we had it. What I meant is that archive 1 arts (including ENM) just are not the powerful options that FSS or SCS are, so we shouldnt argue as if ENM could be on that level.

Also, Spiritual Avoid is the derived Attribute from (Maipulation + Fade) and is used to to 'dodge' spiritual attacks (i.e. FSS uses those). Dispel is used to dispel debuffs or buffs instead.

If I'm not wrong, spiritual avoid is used to avoid debuffs as well though. Spiritual armor can be used to mitigate spiritual damage, and we're relatively good at it. I didn't think too much about avoiding spiritual damage, so you could definitely make a case for DLS based on that. I don't think it's worth it to have a whole art dedicated to it, however, and I'm not sure how important themes are here. The Grinning Moon doesn't exactly match our domain.

Edit: Changed my mind on spiritual avoid importance.
 
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If I'm not wrong, spiritual avoid is used to avoid debuffs as well though. Spiritual armor can be used to mitigate spiritual damage, and we're relatively good at it.

iirc, that was later changed back, because that would nerf debuffs too much compared to buffs. so spiritual avoid is really just like physical avoid but for spiritual attacks
 
iirc, that was later changed back, because that would nerf debuffs too much compared to buffs. so spiritual avoid is really just like physical avoid but for spiritual attacks

So is your Resist stat used to determine whether you get hit by debuffs? Or do you just have to dispel them afterward?

Actually, thinking about it more, it's probably worth getting a spiritual avoid art. It's currently ranked very low, although this will be partially fixed if we train up Fade. We need better ways of countering spiritual attacks. I still think we should get ENM now but we should definitely look into spiritual avoid arts in the future. It's a major weakness that we haven't noticed since we haven't faced too many such attacks.
 
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Managed tally, to get a look at what the votes currently look like:

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[X]Plan: Moon and Snakes
Because i dislike ENM memory shenanigans.

[X] Skill plan: Help with more finesse
Dex seems more important. i'd rather work on our strengths than try to shore up our lesser stats.
Adhoc vote count started by Ayashi on Mar 24, 2019 at 10:20 AM, finished with 369 posts and 48 votes.
 
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I just realised that mom squad is gonna be sad :(

Dragon mom and gorrilla lady along with xin just lost a close friend even if theres a chance she reforms, it may not be the friend theyve known for however long.

That being said I dont think theyll be mad, just mournful and I honestly wonder what dragon moms reaction is gonna be. She watched her close friend sacrifice her own self to give her daughter a chance to grow , will she consider doing the same with her son? (Not the sacrifice part , but you know, in general )
 
I think if you are hoping exploration is going to produce extravagant results, this isn't a good turn for it. A lot of the "oomph" of Ling Qi's exploratory arcs this turn might be swallowed by her Moon Quest, which would make an ordinary exploration AP easy to fall flat narratively.

.

But it's never going to be a good turn for it, full stop. There will always be another excuse for putting it off in favor of concrete advantages--even concrete advantages that aren't likely to be game-breaking. The Lord of the Forest event for instance definitely gave us an 'Extravagant Result' though, that site is one of the best ones we've seen, and is half of how we're going to actually be able to get some of our skills up to scratch.

If the choice is between "Get a modest advantage right now" and "Gamble for a big advantage with the chance of getting nothing"... Well, to be honest? If we keep just going for the modest advantages, we're going to hit a brick wall when we run out of the assets we already have, which is going to happen around turn... Five? Six at this rate?

Aside from EPC and PLR, none of our core arts go to Green Foundation. And we're expected to reach Green Foundation in Month Five. And it's already been made clear to us how the Archive Arts can't be counted on to take core positions in our build.
 
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So is your Resist stat used to determine whether you get hit by debuffs? Or do you just have to dispel them afterward?

your Resist stat is the one that opposes the Dispel. So assuming dude A hits dude B with a debuff and dude B tries a dispel, then it is Dispel (dude B) vs Resist (dude A) and if dispel wins, then the debuff is gone. (which is why we needed a resist art so badly)
 
Managed tally, to get a look at what the votes currently look like:

[edit]
[X]Plan: Moon and Snakes
Because i dislike ENM memory shenanigans.

[X] Skill plan: Help with more finesse
Dex seems more important. i'd rather work on our strengths than try to shore up our lesser stats.

Is there a specific reason you're voting for "Help with more finesse" over "Renxiang needs Help that won't get wrecked by spiritual attacks!"? The latter plan sacrifices very little in my opinion.

Edit: I guess it's because there aren't any bonuses to Fade without ENM?
 
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But it's never going to be a good turn for it, full stop. There will always be another excuse for putting it off in favor of concrete advantages--even concrete advantages that aren't likely to be game-breaking. The Lord of the Forest event for instance definitely gave us an 'Extravagant Result' though, that site is one of the best ones we've seen, and is half of how we're going to actually be able to get some of our skills up to scratch.

If the choice is between "Get a modest advantage right now" and "Gamble for a big advantage with the chance of getting nothing"... Well, to be honest? If we keep just going for the modest advantages, we're going to hit a brick wall when we run out of the assets we already have, which is going to happen around turn... Five? Six at this rate?

Aside from EPC and PLR, none of our core arts go to Green Foundation. And we're expected to reach Green Foundation in Month Five. And it's already been made clear to us how the Archive Arts can't be counted on to take core positions in our build.

This honestly seems like the ideal time for the Cai arts to arrive.
 
Hopefully we get something from the moon quest. I don't agree that we should gamble on exploration providing us with a chance to get a new art when that seems to have a very low chance of happening. I respect your opinion though, and we need to solve this problem one way or another.
 
[X]Plan: Moon and Snakes
[X] Skill plan: Help with more finesse

Plan voting being split into 2 is kind of a clusterfuck. Hard to figure out what skill goes with what plan. I will be heavily amused by a incoherent set winning.
 
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@archangis I don't think spiritual avoid, which DLS focuses on, is very useful for us right now with Sixiang's dispels.

It permit to let sixiang focus themselves on dispelling ennemy buffs which is a significant buff to our combat power as seen in the fight with swordboy. Moreover damanging spiritual attacks like FSS are not somrthing we have an answer to currently.

We actually get two rolls per AP, Shen Hu gave +1 roll per AP, he was really useful.

Nah, he gave one additional roll. We got 3 for each AP (7 in total).

And for the rest, how exactly do you intend to find a site without exploration ?
 
[X]Plan: Stealth is fine too
[X] Skill plan: Renxiang needs Help that won't get wrecked by spiritual attacks!
[X] Skill plan: Help with more finesse

Seems like planmaking is too complicated, if only a certain set of people ever make them and the rest of us just wait for a plan appropriate to our interests. Though that's standard fare for quests with good mechanics.
*Probably Endings anyway, we don't get to see her Keywords besides the 4 she gives bonuses to, and given the tribulation went I could see her getting like Beginings or Legacy or Inheritance instead. Which the more I think of it really enforces how much better the synergy between her and Zhengui (Dat Renewal yo) is than one would think from their elements.
I don't think spirits customize themselves that much, especially not spirit beasts. For Hanyi to get that far away from her mother's themes, when she 'wants to be like Mama', is a bit farfetched IMO.
 
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