Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Do not take insight from MoSS

How many insights are we lacking for advancing our cultivation to the next stages of Green?

Also, @yrsillar, I was wondering, when you are in the 3rd realm, how does physical cultivation even work anyway, considering physical exercises will not really have any effect at this stage? And are there any techniques that works with physical cultivation instead of depending on the spritual cultivation like all our techniques?
It varies by cultivator still looks like physical exercise for some, but for LQ it varies between dance practice kind of activities and simply sitting under the moon on a brightnight while weaving lunar qi into your flesh and bones.

Hmm, to clarify, @yrsillar , does any of this clash with the kind of direction the Grinning Moon stuff is going in, since we do want to continue to advance that three-Moon whatnot?
There is a clash here, and you'll have to resolve it, and figure out how to balance your grinning tricks with your negotiator stuff.

Though I will note that this insight does not require you to give up or alter your goals. Ling Qi even specifically thinks about how its impossible not to clash with things whose wants are at cross purposes with yours. And staying true to your values and goals will result in making enemies of people, you are just constrained in your conduct while things are still operating in good faith.
 
Yeah, I do have concerns about the Insight, but they're more along the lines of "Grinning Questions."

Because to me, "This clashes heavily with the socially stratified status-quo of the Empire if it keeps on going and doesn't include a clause that says, 'Unless the person doing it is a noble, then it's all just kosher'" is something in favor of it. :V
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
So what happens if someone says "No thanks, the lack of unity is better for me!"? Or more likely "Hmm, change is scary, I'd rather not." Well, as long as they are still being a good neighbor, we are out of luck.

I'm pretty sure that if they're being a good neighbor anyway it's mission accomplished.

We get what we want if people are being good neighbors to eachother. I see unity as a means to that end rather than as the end itself.
 
Also as far as it goes, a lot of people who will be, "No thanks, change is scary" would be that because they're in charge, at which point many of them will be doing things to people within their domains or so on that... y'know, make them bad neighbors.

The question of at what point LQ has a duty to intervene can be its own debate, but I'm pretty sure that it's not the case where LQ would be just fine if someone wasn't personally hurting her or anyone around her but was doing horrible fucked up things to their peasants or the spirits, or etc.
 
We need to convince most people anyway, and trying to do so using ungood neighbourly tactics is not a stable solution.
As long as people are not actively sabotaging us, we can largely ignore them, they will get dragged along by changing times anyway in the end.
And anyone who is sabotaging us, well, they are not a very good neighbour now are they?
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
Also as far as it goes, a lot of people who will be, "No thanks, change is scary" would be that because they're in charge, at which point many of them will be doing things to people within their domains or so on that... y'know, make them bad neighbors.

The question of at what point LQ has a duty to intervene can be its own debate, but I'm pretty sure that it's not the case where LQ would be just fine if someone wasn't personally hurting her or anyone around her but was doing horrible fucked up things to their peasants or the spirits, or etc.
Wouldn't it be their thing to do in their own lands and none of our business? Good neighbors doesn't mean "does what you think they should do in their own home." At least I think that's how that goes?
 
Wouldn't it be their thing to do in their own lands and none of our business? Good neighbors doesn't mean "does what you think they should do in their own home." At least I think that's how that goes?

I mean, sure, if we accept the idea that a person is the lord of their own home, and if they want to abuse the metaphorical dog and beat the metaphorical child it's all fine because it's their property...

But I'm pretty sure we don't, and LQ sure as hell doesn't.

Obviously, it's the milder examples (metaphorically the guy who is kinda a jerk to their dog and cold and unfeeling to their kids) that will cause LQ more trouble long-term, but it's the more drastic examples that will actually cause fights.

But yeah, I don't think LQ actually necessarily accepts some sort of castle doctrine belief that Lords own the people beneath them and that it's their right to do whatever they want with them. That feels like it'd be covered by the "takes without dominating, gives without submitting" bit.
 
Last edited:
I mean, sure, if we accept the idea that a person is the lord of their own home, and if they want to abuse the metaphorical dog and beat the metaphorical child it's all fine because it's their property...

But I'm pretty sure we don't, and LQ sure as hell doesn't.

Obviously, it's the milder examples (metaphorically the guy who is kinda a jerk to their dog and cold and unfeeling to their kids) that will cause LQ more trouble long-term, but it's the more drastic examples that will actually cause fights.

But yeah, I don't think LQ actually necessarily accepts some sort of castle doctrine belief that Lords own the people beneath them and that it's their right to do whatever they want with them. That feels like it'd be covered by the "takes without dominating, gives without submitting" bit.
I mean, it's definitely no castle doctrine but it definitely is a big ass boulder in the way of ling qi doing things in others domain without first making it pretty clear she's unhappy and wants it changed.

[ ] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
(Emphasis mine)
Those mean we are bound quite a bit...
 
I mean, it's definitely no castle doctrine but it definitely is a big ass boulder in the way of ling qi doing things in others domain without first making it pretty clear she's unhappy and wants it changed.

[ ] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
(Emphasis mine)
Those mean we are bound quite a bit...

...I feel like we're fundamentally understanding everything about LQ, but also, like.

Yes?

We should first register that we're unhappy with what they're doing and ask if they could change it if they're doing fucked up things to spirits or abusing or harassing the citizens under their "care" for embracing Weilu principles or being of the lesser race as the Imperial Structure views it, or so on.

We'll have to do a good faith attempt to get them to stop without it escalating before we escalate. And, like.

So?
 
[X] A good neighbor listens without spying, speaks without demanding, takes without dominating, gives without submitting. Respect is the foundation of community.
 
...I feel like we're fundamentally understanding everything about LQ, but also, like.

Yes?

We should first register that we're unhappy with what they're doing and ask if they could change it if they're doing fucked up things to spirits or abusing or harassing the citizens under their "care" for embracing Weilu principles or being of the lesser race as the Imperial Structure views it, or so on.

We'll have to do a good faith attempt to get them to stop without it escalating before we escalate. And, like.

So?
In our role as diplomat? No problem.
In our role as spy mistress, follower of the grinning moon and retainer of the provincial heiress? I do see some more problems that could be very annoying. Us having to talk to someone about an issue and strongly implying we want something done about it, and after refusal some hidden power does it anyway? Bad look for our employer.
Also it can even just take the element of surprise if it goes really bad.
 
There's also the logical limits. If we do an audit of someone, which we're allowed to do, and discover a torture basement full of victims (metaphorical or literal), we can in fact just fuck them up, lol.
 
There's also the logical limits. If we do an audit of someone, which we're allowed to do, and discover a torture basement full of victims (metaphorical or literal), we can in fact just fuck them up, lol.
Oh absolutely, but again we are the hidden hand of our mistress and we are currently in the process of putting a blinking light on our fingers so that everyone sees us coming.
 
Oh absolutely, but again we are the hidden hand of our mistress and we are currently in the process of putting a blinking light on our fingers so that everyone sees us coming.

We're really not, that was what she originally hired Ling Qi for, but decided she was better used as an envoy, diplomat, and problem-solver. That our access to lots of contacts also tends to give Ling Qi a pretext to stick her nose into suspicious things and sort things out before they go terminal is just bonus. She's playing Diplomat in the context of "Someone who also gathers a lot of information from her network of contacts and can often identify Suspicious Things in advance, with the authority to Resolve That Thing before it becomes a Problem"

I don't really see this as anything but formalizing something we already tended to do though? Ling Qi generally stays in her wheelhouse until someone provokes her to be nosy, and then she finds out what the fuck and finds a solution.

I don't see us--at least nowadays anyway--being the sort of person who'd just sight unseen go "I don't like this person's face, I'm going to dig into them and ruin their life." It's an admonition to act in good faith whenever there's no compelling reason to act otherwise, such as "The other side is not negotiating in good faith." It's part of why I'm not especially worried about Territorial Moosebart, Zhengui's already signposted that we're likely to run into problems because he's monopolizing a large chunk of the local geomancy and making the whole system less stable than it could be. I don't think he's going to stop just because we asked him nicely, especially if we can't just drop a Bigger Fish on him to cow him into submission, we don't have that degree of monopoly of force.

The point remains, "It's better to deal in good faith than it is to assume everyone's out to get you." There are genuine limitations on our behavior that we get, but there's a degree of power involved too--especially to those who are in a position to sense your own vibes and understand that if they bargain fairly, you'll reciprocate.
 
Last edited:
We're really not, that was what she originally hired Ling Qi for, but decided she was better used as an envoy, diplomat, and problem-solver. That our access to lots of contacts also tends to give Ling Qi a pretext to stick her nose into suspicious things and sort things out before they go terminal is just bonus. She's playing Diplomat in the context of "Someone who also gathers a lot of information from her network of contacts and can often identify Suspicious Things in advance, with the authority to Resolve That Thing before it becomes a Problem"

I don't really see this as anything but formalizing something we already tended to do though? Ling Qi generally stays in her wheelhouse until someone provokes her to be nosy, and then she finds out what the fuck and finds a solution.

I don't see us--at least nowadays anyway--being the sort of person who'd just sight unseen go "I don't like this person's face, I'm going to dig into them and ruin their life."
As I understand we are the only one of the three retainers that has any hand in stealth and subterfuge. (Hey if I'm wrong I'm happy to learn but that's what I've gathered) We are the defacto spy mistress. And yes currently we don't have to be noisy because we are isolated in our fief away from just about any politics.
That won't always be so, and at some point we will be send to do spy things im pretty sure. At that point this insight will be a problem.
Now how big a problem is another question, might be we can work around it easily but I doubt it, it is rather broad.
 
As I understand we are the only one of the three retainers that has any hand in stealth and subterfuge. (Hey if I'm wrong I'm happy to learn but that's what I've gathered) We are the defacto spy mistress. And yes currently we don't have to be noisy because we are isolated in our fief away from just about any politics.
That won't always be so, and at some point we will be send to do spy things im pretty sure. At that point this insight will be a problem.
Now how big a problem is another question, might be we can work around it easily but I doubt it, it is rather broad.

So basically. "We're the Spymaster by default because everyone else is too extra, so we need to be able to be treacherous and sinister at the drop of a hat?"

That sounds a lot like "Cultivating for your Job", which we've had it established several times is neither healthy or desirable.

We have excellent Bullshit Detection skills and an ability to glean information from seemingly the middle of nowhere. The fact we don't need to sneak into someone's house who hasn't done anything against us because they might have done a funni doesn't mean that we're fundamentally crippled. It just means we have to find a new approach. I Like that, I don't want us to just devolve into Yet Another Cloak and Dagger story because we have dark powers that are naturally inclined to it.

I loved the flow of the investigation arc underscoring the Summit. Individual events might have been scuffed, but the general idea of "Ling Qi relies on the Ministry of Integrity to gather information, and uses that information to justify and direct her own more fearsome intrusions on critical fracture points, rinse and repeat" is a lot more appealing to me than specifically being the one who has to Do Everything. I love the idea of being a Diplomat at Large rather than just another Intrigue Advisor.
 
Last edited:
Oh absolutely, but again we are the hidden hand of our mistress and we are currently in the process of putting a blinking light on our fingers so that everyone sees us coming.
That ship hasn't just sailed, it has reached a new country and the crew have integrated into the local culture, married and had children.

A proper hidden hand/spymaster is someone like Meizhen's dad, whom everyone keeps forgetting.
The public record states that Baroness Ling Qi threw down with a Sovereign and lived. She can still go on ninja missions like I'm sure will happen against the Ith-ia/Cloud, but she's way too much in the public eye to be a proper hidden hand, at least the way I understand the term.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top