This Bites! (One Piece SI)

[TerrisH]

It's.. well, It's a Yes-No response I have to reply here.

while I can see Akainu having it easily, given the strength/determination of his personality.. The problem comes from the other two admirals. their personalities/determination are just to.. relaxed to support the ability. they could have the latent ability to use it, but I just don't see them ever awakening it. the Light guy is just to wishy-washy to unlock it via desire, and to strong to unlock it via need. Ice-guy is also strong to unlock it via need, and has to much internal doubt to unlock/use it via desire.

Lava-guy.. well, he's also to strong to unlock it via need.. but he dose have the focus (on his version of Justice) to unlock/use it via desire. But I don't really see the narrative need for him to have it, as it dose not add much to his abilities. he can inspire nearly the same level of fear/terror just under threat of his powers.

I can also see Vega-punk coming up with an artificial treatment to give someone the ability, and have the marines lock it down to admirals only.
soo.

Yes to Lava-guy though you should consider carefully if it adds anything to the story that is not already there.
No to the other two admirals, unless you call in the vegapunk excuse.

 

[Bahn]

Not a fan of the three stooges (Admirals) having Conqueror's Haki.

Honestly, it would make more sense for someone like Garp to have it than them. He's the father and grandfather of two Conqueror Haki users plus he's got the whole "Will of D" schtick going for him as well. (It neatly ties in with the theory that Conqueror's Haki might also be genetic, another example being Gol D. Roger and Ace both having it.)

Aokiji, Kuzan, and Akainu don't have anything remotely similar to that going for them whatsoever. And like other's have said, Conq. Haki is supposed to be a one-in-a-million deal. Let's not cheapen it.

 

[Yuki no Yue]

Attention, readers of This Bites! We the Cross-Brain have recently run into a case of... creative differences, to say the least. I believe a scene should go one way, and my cowriters think it should go another. As such, we're leaving it all up to you. If my version wins, it goes in. If their version wins, it goes in.

Our difference is on whether or not the Admirals should have Conqueror's Haki. I, for one, am of the stringent opinion that yes they absolutely should because as my partners have so blatantly failed to remember, they are the top three soldiers of the Marine Corps, three of the strongest soldiers of Justice alive to date! Hell, they are next in line for Sengoku's very seat, it's nothing short of pure logic to think that they'd have it!

But! Let not my words sway you, let my writing. Observe, if you will, a version of events in the upcoming chapter as depicted with Akainu possessing Conqueror's Haki, as is only right:

-o-​

"HURK!" Soundbite's head suddenly rocked forwards as he gagged on something.

"Soundbite! Crap, what's—!?" My concern morphed into terror when my snail started coughing up smoke. "Oh shit… oh shit shit shit!" I hastily scrabbled for the button to hang up the call—!

And was frozen when Soundbite's eyes suddenly snapped up with a glare filled with pure evil and I found myself standing at the foot of an active volcano the size of Everest itself, molten fire and brimstone erupting from the earth and soaring high enough to set the heavens themselves ablaze.

"Let me be perfectly clear," Soundbite rumbled murderously. "Any soldier who dares to take so much as a step back will be met with a firing squad upon their return to Marineford. And if you think for even a second that I will not find out the names of each and every last traitor to Justice?"

The force of the eruption tripled, and I swear to god that my eyebrows flash-fried right off my face.

"THINK AGAIN."

And then the connection cut off and I was left shivering on a Bridge with a wheezing snail on my shoulder.

-o-
​

And voila. Please, liberally like this post if you believe (which you should) that this is the appropriate version of events.

Click to shrink...

The position Vence and I are holding, on the other hand, is that Conqueror's Haki is noted to be damn rare, and two people with Conqueror's in the same organization even rarer. Spreading it out to so many people within the same organization cheapens its status, and more importantly, none of them have shown any sign that they actually have Conqueror's, and you can be damn well sure that they would've used it at some point during the manga's run.

Besides, I remember you lovely readers already voicing objections to us giving it to Sengoku and the Five Elder Stars.

If you agree with this position, and think the above scene needs to be changed, like this post.

Also, as of yet there is no other version of that scene, due to the fact that I haven't gotten the chance to rewrite it yet.

Click to shrink...

Against them having the Conqueror Haki.
All my point are already been made and it feels like too much.

 

[Fabled Ranger]

You kind of confused me when you gave Vivi conquers. So let's not cheapen its value even more by giving it out to more characters. Do the admirals even need it?

 

[Hexed]

Have to agree with the crowd and say no

 

[Xomniac]

All right, stop the presses, we've come to an agreement. We will not give Aokiji and Kizaru conqueror's. For Akainu, we will neither confirm nor deny it, in-story or out.

 

[Guardsman_Sparky]

Attention, readers of This Bites! We the Cross-Brain have recently run into a case of... creative differences, to say the least. I believe a scene should go one way, and my cowriters think it should go another. As such, we're leaving it all up to you. If my version wins, it goes in. If their version wins, it goes in.

Our difference is on whether or not the Admirals should have Conqueror's Haki. I, for one, am of the stringent opinion that yes they absolutely should because as my partners have so blatantly failed to remember, they are the top three soldiers of the Marine Corps, three of the strongest soldiers of Justice alive to date! Hell, they are next in line for Sengoku's very seat, it's nothing short of pure logic to think that they'd have it!

But! Let not my words sway you, let my writing. Observe, if you will, a version of events in the upcoming chapter as depicted with Akainu possessing Conqueror's Haki, as is only right:

-o-​

"HURK!" Soundbite's head suddenly rocked forwards as he gagged on something.

"Soundbite! Crap, what's—!?" My concern morphed into terror when my snail started coughing up smoke. "Oh shit… oh shit shit shit!" I hastily scrabbled for the button to hang up the call—!

And was frozen when Soundbite's eyes suddenly snapped up with a glare filled with pure evil and I found myself standing at the foot of an active volcano the size of Everest itself, molten fire and brimstone erupting from the earth and soaring high enough to set the heavens themselves ablaze.

"Let me be perfectly clear," Soundbite rumbled murderously. "Any soldier who dares to take so much as a step back will be met with a firing squad upon their return to Marineford. And if you think for even a second that I will not find out the names of each and every last traitor to Justice?"

The force of the eruption tripled, and I swear to god that my eyebrows flash-fried right off my face.

"THINK AGAIN."

And then the connection cut off and I was left shivering on a Bridge with a wheezing snail on my shoulder.

-o-
​

And voila. Please, liberally like this post if you believe (which you should) that this is the appropriate version of events.

Click to shrink...

You know, I can see this scene still working even if Akainu doesn't have Conqueror's Haki. With the sheer bullshit that is Devil Fruit powers, I can totally see Fruit users being able to radiate a sense of what their fruit is into the air and through CommSnails. After all, you said it yourself I believe, that the applications of a Devil Fruit power is only limited by the imagination. So what is to stop a poison paramecia from projecting a feeling of becoming sick, a tiger zoan projecting the sensation of being hunted, or a snow logia projecting the sensation of being trapped in a blizzard?

With that in mind, I can totally see Akainu projecting the essence of a volcano via a phone call through sheer rage.

Besides, you've already set a precedent for this with the Golden Buddha, remember? What with Soundbite random snail glowing flashing gold a tiny bit and all.

Found the spot!

"EXCUSE ME?!"

Before the snail suddenly roared indignantly, its apoplectic expression taking on a golden sheen in the process. For a moment, the two Marines flinched back; upsetting Sengoku was on the brink of suicidal… but then, with what they were doing, so were they.

"YOU HAD BETTER HAVE THE BEST EXCUSE OF YOUR CAREERS FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO REPORT IN HERE, OR ELSE I'LL HAVE YOU ASSIGNED TO SCRUBBING THE OUTSIDE OF IMPEL DOWN FOR THE REST OF YOUR MISERABLE CAREERS!" the hellish Buddha roared.

Click to shrink...

 

[Evillevi]

Spoiler

Attention, readers of This Bites! We the Cross-Brain have recently run into a case of... creative differences, to say the least. I believe a scene should go one way, and my cowriters think it should go another. As such, we're leaving it all up to you. If my version wins, it goes in. If their version wins, it goes in.

Our difference is on whether or not the Admirals should have Conqueror's Haki. I, for one, am of the stringent opinion that yes they absolutely should because as my partners have so blatantly failed to remember, they are the top three soldiers of the Marine Corps, three of the strongest soldiers of Justice alive to date! Hell, they are next in line for Sengoku's very seat, it's nothing short of pure logic to think that they'd have it!

But! Let not my words sway you, let my writing. Observe, if you will, a version of events in the upcoming chapter as depicted with Akainu possessing Conqueror's Haki, as is only right:

-o-​

"HURK!" Soundbite's head suddenly rocked forwards as he gagged on something.

"Soundbite! Crap, what's—!?" My concern morphed into terror when my snail started coughing up smoke. "Oh shit… oh shit shit shit!" I hastily scrabbled for the button to hang up the call—!

And was frozen when Soundbite's eyes suddenly snapped up with a glare filled with pure evil and I found myself standing at the foot of an active volcano the size of Everest itself, molten fire and brimstone erupting from the earth and soaring high enough to set the heavens themselves ablaze.

"Let me be perfectly clear," Soundbite rumbled murderously. "Any soldier who dares to take so much as a step back will be met with a firing squad upon their return to Marineford. And if you think for even a second that I will not find out the names of each and every last traitor to Justice?"

The force of the eruption tripled, and I swear to god that my eyebrows flash-fried right off my face.

"THINK AGAIN."

And then the connection cut off and I was left shivering on a Bridge with a wheezing snail on my shoulder.

-o-
​

And voila. Please, liberally like this post if you believe (which you should) that this is the appropriate version of events.

Click to shrink...

At the surface level and the spectacle fiction that This Bites is, I'll admit that it doesn't sound bad for the Admirals to have Conqerers Haki.

However the thing is that I don't see the point that Conq. Haki serves in the admirals. It would be cool but it makes minimal sense to have it.

In One Piece the Conq Haki serves as the justification and crown that denotes Luffy to be a badass and the hero. It's his excalibur, his lightning scar, his Aldur's Stone. In that sense Conq Haki is the signpost that says that this guy is destined to be great.

However the thing is that not having Conq Haki is also special in and of itself. Whether by belief, by determination, by money or pedigree or any number of other factors there are people who look at these Conquerors, went fuck no, and proceeded to match them in every way that counts.

The admirals are strong but none of them have or are really in a meta position where having Conq Haki is beneficial for them. Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji shows none of the innovation,charisma and initiative that Conq haki would suggest they should have. Their personalities don't benefit from having Conq Haki.

Now this discrepancy is great in potential because you can later show us that Conq Haki is actually something that having a special something would allow you to manifest, or through trial and fucking error someone can gain the charisma needed to match someone's cheat code from scratch. However all these things requires that there are opposing sides to the topic of who has this special snowflake status. Having all the pirates manifest some extraordinary advantage against the marines who still win because they have put even more Hard Work to pull it off is a nice theme. Simply giving it to them because they're strong just... waters the experience down since something special is now less special.

PS: I do believe that the world elders and rulers are significantly more predisposed to having people with Conq Haki than is normal. Similarly the D. is also more predisposed as well. It's just that the official statistics exclude people who don't report/hide their abilities.

God damnit I'm late to the party :'(

 

[Void Traveler]

God damnit I'm late to the party :'(

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Yes, Yes you are

 

[Backlash177]

He did. It was after he was done talking with Vivi, once Spandam's "roughing up" ended.

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I found it, thanks for telling me where to look.

 

[King Arthur]

I'm against it. You don't need Conquerors Haki to be strong or powerful or a threat, giving it to the admirals adds nothing to their characters, all it really does is cheapen the other characters who have it.

 

[!nde$truct!ble]

While the admirals are strong, they dont have the attitude that comes with one having conquered's haki. So, none of them should have it.

 

[Otritzi]

So far as I'm concerned Conqueror's Haki means you won't be permanently subservient to anyone. Luffy, Doflamingo, and several others who have it are all aiming to be at the top of their organizations or the throne of their domain. Conqueror's Haki means you can barely stand to work beneath someone else as a natural part of having it.

Doesn't mean you can't have friends and work with them or anything but actually being beneath someone else? No, someone with Conqueror's Haki can't stand that. Conqueror's Haki doesn't seem like it would play nice with being a Marine.

 

[Bel]

So far as I'm concerned Conqueror's Haki means you won't be permanently subservient to anyone. Luffy, Doflamingo, and several others who have it are all aiming to be at the top of their organizations or the throne of their domain. Conqueror's Haki means you can barely stand to work beneath someone else as a natural part of having it.

Doesn't mean you can't have friends and work with them or anything but actually being beneath someone else? No, someone with Conqueror's Haki can't stand that. Conqueror's Haki doesn't seem like it would play nice with being a Marine.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, Shanks has it, and he worked for Roger...but we also know that his first mate had it and the implications were that Roger had it himself. However I broadly agree, the mindset needed to become a Conquering King detests working under somebody. That said, if anybody in the Marines would have it, Admirals would probably be the logical choice. However other than Volcano guy I can't see the ohter two having the mindset to really embody it.

 

[King Arthur]

To be fair, Shanks has it, and he worked for Roger...but we also know that his first mate had it and the implications were that Roger had it himself. However I broadly agree, the mindset needed to become a Conquering King detests working under somebody. That said, if anybody in the Marines would have it, Admirals would probably be the logical choice. However other than Volcano guy I can't see the ohter two having the mindset to really embody it.

Click to shrink...

Also, like, I'm not sure if working under someone when you are like 10 really counts, you know?

I mean, hell, let's not forget that for awhile Luffy was willing to work under Shanks, he was literally begging to go to sea with him, and no one embodies freedom more then him. Conqueror's Haki is one thing, but a ten year old is still a ten year old at the end of the day.

 

[Promenius]

The position Vence and I are holding, on the other hand, is that Conqueror's Haki is noted to be damn rare, and two people with Conqueror's in the same organization even rarer. Spreading it out to so many people within the same organization cheapens its status, and more importantly, none of them have shown any sign that they actually have Conqueror's, and you can be damn well sure that they would've used it at some point during the manga's run.

Click to shrink...

Our difference is on whether or not the Admirals should have Conqueror's Haki.

Click to shrink...

I'm personally of the opinion that the Admirals should *not* have Conqueror's Haki. For one, it's *really* rare. For another, we've seen no evidence of them possessing it in the manga or anime, as noted.

One example I'd use to argue that they don't have it would be during the Marineford War.

Despite how callous the Admirals themselves may be, Sengoku himself does not *waste* good and loyal soldiers unnecessarily, and telling the Admirals to not use Conqueror's Haki to help drive off and/or drive a large number of pirates into unconsciousness seems... odd. Sure, Sengoku might sacrifice soldiers (or even entire islands) if he thinks it's worth it, but he does not *waste* lives. He's noted to be a cunning tactician by Whitebeard, and I can see no explanation as to why the Admirals *wouldn't* make use of it during the War, when their *ENTIRE ORGANISATION* was in danger of losing its seat of power and legitimacy, especially when the pirates started to use it themselves.

Why *wouldn't* they make use of Conqueror's Haki in such a situation?

So no, I'm sorry Xomniac, but I'm with Patient and Hornet; keep the Conqueror's Haki out of the picture when it comes to the Admirals. If in the manga it eventually turns out that they *did* possess such Haki all this time, just go with whatever reason the manga comes up with for them not having it/using it earlier.

 

[Tsaurn]

To be fair, Shanks has it, and he worked for Roger...but we also know that his first mate had it and the implications were that Roger had it himself. However I broadly agree, the mindset needed to become a Conquering King detests working under somebody. That said, if anybody in the Marines would have it, Admirals would probably be the logical choice. However other than Volcano guy I can't see the ohter two having the mindset to really embody it.

Click to shrink...

Shanks likely unlocked Conq. haki after Roger's death, so no conflict there. Potential conquering king can serve another King. And given Rayleigh was known as the Dark King himself, well, for all that he may have been first mate to Roger, 'serving' may not have chaffed much. If Roger was anything like Luffy, and there have been more than enough hints of shared traits, his crew may very well have been extremely nontraditonal as far as power structure and who actually commands at any moment.

This is the complete opposite of the Marines. Certainly, the ranking officer has at times ridiculous amount of leeway, but when orders come on from high, you better well follow them. I feel it's likely that there are a few potential Kings among the Marine's ranks, but they won't unlock as long as they are strictly loyal. It is not just the power of Kings, but Conquering Kings. One who has something to overcome. This Bites!Vivi could unlock it because of how her situation diverted from canon--never as the future heir secure in her position. At least goes my headcanon.

I'm wary of handing out 'rare' abilities, warier still when we don't completely understand them. Given that the source material is unfinished and we don't have access to explicit W.O.G. author's notes, it relies on us to create our own logic on how the abilities work. That means picking or creating a lore and sticking with it so the story is self-consistent. Whether that means Xomniac's picture of haki matches my own or even the general fan theory isn't really important so much as that it serves his purpose. So it really depends less on 'is it accurate for Sakazuki/Akainu to have this ability' and more on 'does the display of this ability serve the author's purpose for the scene, the character's development, and/or worldbuilding'.

So. What would it say about Akainu to use that haki in the situation? His emotional state, his thought process, his fighting strength and available tactics? What are the consequences of displaying that ability over the SBS, specifically for him and the Marines, is it different than Vivi's reveal? What does it say about previously unknown depths to his character and his history and motivations? His superiors' and coworkers' opinion of him? What does any of this mean for other people, civilians, subordinates, other haki users or potentials?

What is being conveyed to the reader (besides 'this guy is BA'), and is this the best/only/most efficient/awesomest say to do that? How does this choice effect the rest of the story--not just in world, but as a narrative? Does it take away from the impact of other reveals? Is it appropriately placed pacing wise or are the hits coming too quickly one after another? Would it be better to be revealed at a later time or in a different manner?

There's a lot more going on, and I think as reader's it's hard to judge the best way to approach it as we're missing a lot of the behind the scenes as it were. But that's why Cross-Brain is a thing. I'd suggest heavily favoring their advice. And as it sounds like you've come to a decision on this particular front, seems like you have things well in hand already. And it is true that forums like SB and SV are here for reader feedback, discussion and critique and we are certainly a resource for you to take advantage of, please do!

Not sure if any of that was helpful or not, especially a bit late, but a lot of the sentiment I think can be applied at any time. In any case, thank you for the peek at the up coming chapter/writing process!

 

[Joshua Coffin]

Hmmm. So far, canonically, only kings and former kings have Conquer's Haki. Shanks and Whitebeard as Emperors, Boa and Domflamingo as rulers, Ace as son of the Pirate King, and Luffy as the Pirate King to be. I think the only exception is Rayleigh, but he was known as the Dark King, so...

I think Akainu is asshole enough to freeze the soldiers in fear through sheer assholic force of personality alone.

 

[Fate/Online]

At the risk of starting some kind of...well this thread is on the internet and full of opinionated fans, need more be said? Anyway, why don't you just have that scene with Sengoku instead? ...Well you'd have to change it but you still get the general spirit of the original. And Sengoku IS probably angry and/or unhinged enough right now to make Akainu look tame by comparison.

 

[Appletank]

Wait, wouldn't that whole "Detests working under someone" idea not work when Vivi is added to the equation? Unless this is something different?

 

[FaeGlade Plural]

Wait, wouldn't that whole "Detests working under someone" idea not work when Vivi is added to the equation? Unless this is something different?

Click to shrink...

"Under" versus "with".
Vivi is very much working with Luffy and the Straw Hats. Sure, they technically have ranks - but in almost all regards they're equals, and who's in charge varies from situation to situation.
No, the actual counter-argument here would be Ace, who's clearly fine just working for Whitebeard for the rest of his life.

But that's not the main reason I wouldn't want the Admirals to have Conquerors Haki. The main reason is this:
It doesn't ad anything to the story.
They obviously don't need it to be really dangerous. They already are among the individually strongest people in the world and have demonstrated so a bunch of times.
They don't need it to, well, actually exert charisma and lead anyone. They can already do that by virtue of their rank.
They don't need it to take out tons of mooks. First, their opponents (at least the ones we care about) don't have tons of mooks. Other than during Marineford, where they didn't use it. Second, they can already do so just fine.
They don't get any added characterization from it, and in at least two cases, it contradicts the one they have.
They have no story-reason to have it that I can think off, with one exception I'll mention in a bit.

That's all different for Vivi.
Vivi fulfills all of the points above - it makes her more dangerous and thus gives her more to do during fights, it fits with her great charisma, she'll certainly fight against lots of mooks at some point, and it actually contributed well to her character. Her having it also promises a lot of interesting interaction with Luffy, and generally opens up a lot of story paths.

The only story path that's opened up by one of the Admirals having Conquerors Haki that wouldn't work just as well without out is, well, a clash between their Haki and someone elses.
However, the Admirals are poor candidates for this. They're already too huge a threat. That Haki-off would take away screen-time from their sheer physical threat. Their massive experience also suggests that they'd win such a Haki-fight, and even if they don't and actually lose - beating an Admiral isn't really fitting yet. The Straw Hats are not strong enough for that yet, escaping would already be enough of a feat that it'd be impressive. Actually winning should happen much later.

So while I can see some of the appeal - Conquerors Haki allows for cool scenes, and what author doesn't like writing cool scenes - it's really not fitting or actually contributing anything to the story.

 

[SpokenSoftly]

No, the actual counter-argument here would be Ace, who's clearly fine just working for Whitebeard for the rest of his life.

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Even then, Ace clearly has a genuine father-son relationship with Newgate, as opposed to a commander-subordinate relationship as there is between the Admirals and Sengoku. The truly consistent trait we've seen in Conquerors is that they chafe at taking a subordinate role, with Rayleigh likely conforming to the trend due to the parallels between him and Zoro.

 

[John At Dawn]

While I could see Sengoku having the ability, and have always felt Garp having it made sense, the idea that the other three have the personality for it baffles me.

 

[Bel]

...you know, I just had a random thought. I mean I know that the Marines and the World Government are all for 'The Son inherits the sins of the father' but I wonder how the PR of the marines swang 'we killed a shit ton of women and children on the chance that Roger might have fathered a kid'. I mean the flashback we got in the anime had marines busting out doors and dragging women and children away IIRC. That's...really hard to swing.

EDIT: especially since he was broadcasting that to the WORLD when it happened..."Yeah, we went around and killed all these women to make sure Roger didn't breed but shit, he did...our bad?"

 

[tarrangar]

The position Vence and I are holding, on the other hand, is that Conqueror's Haki is noted to be damn rare, and two people with Conqueror's in the same organization even rarer. Spreading it out to so many people within the same organization cheapens its status, and more importantly, none of them have shown any sign that they actually have Conqueror's, and you can be damn well sure that they would've used it at some point during the manga's run.

Besides, I remember you lovely readers already voicing objections to us giving it to Sengoku and the Five Elder Stars.

If you agree with this position, and think the above scene needs to be changed, like this post.

Also, as of yet there is no other version of that scene, due to the fact that I haven't gotten the chance to rewrite it yet.

Click to shrink...

I would say that the Admirals shouldn't all have conquerors Haki mainly because it's about the instinct to rule and Kizaru at least don't seem to have that what with not even trying to challenge Akainu for the position of Fleet Admiral even though Kizaru do not agree with Akainu's view of justice.

Aokiji might have it I doubt it but the fact that he challenged Akainu make me consider it still a possibilily although far from certain since while not challenging Akainu near proves the lack of it but don't prove you possess it.

Akainu I give 50/50 odds of having it at least, he has the ambition and charisma needed so it's definitely likely.

I don't think all the Eldar stars have it however, maybe one or 2 but not all.