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There Was A Different Idea: An MCU Producer Quest

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King crimson said:
Even less Hawkeye material. The man simply isn't good at dialogue at all and he doesn't look the part and it would likely drag him down hard.
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Gonna disagree out of sheer respect for the actor - I've adored his roles in just about every respect. He does definitely fit better in heavily action packed films of course, but I don't think he's lacking in proper acting chops either.

That all said however, I think Kraven the Hunter is a perfect role for him. That does make me wonder though, does Sony own the rights to all Spidey villains as it stands? Asking mostly because you get a lot of Spidey villains that cross into other hero territory, like Kingpin being a guy that serves as a big antagonistic force for both Spidey and Daredevil; while Kraven is most certainly more a Spidey thing, is it still possible to use his character without him?
 
DaOneInDaCorner said:
Gonna disagree out of sheer respect for the actor - I've adored his roles in just about every respect. He does definitely fit better in heavily action packed films of course, but I don't think he's lacking in proper acting chops either.
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You can respect an actor without being blind to their faults. I adore Alan Rickman as an actor and think he's absolutely incredible but I can at the same time acknowledge that he's not good at everything and isn't able to act everything (He can't do romantic comedies at all for example).

I like Keanu well enough and I think he's a good actor, I just don't believe he can do everything without flaw. Consistently the weakest parts of Keanu's performances are in the dialogue. That's not to say he can't do it at all but when his delivery was at its strongest in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure that says something about where his real strengths lie. Keanu is an incredible physical actor and he's not an incompetent actor but he's not perfect either. I think if you put a gun to my head and told me to cast the 100 actors I think would be best for Sherlock Holmes, I don't think he cracks that one hundred. Different actors are good at different things and no actor can do absolutely everything at the highest possible level.

Like I personally think Robert Downey Jr. is a great actor but I don't think he could competently play John Wick at all and vice versa I don't think Keanu Reeves could pull off Tony Stark. I respect the man but I simply do not think his strengths lie in the necessary areas for Hawkeye. Keanu Reeves has turned in bad performances (the Constantine Movie springs to mind) and I don't think Hawkeye is the role for him because of where he's traditionally shown himself to be weakest.
DaOneInDaCorner said:
That all said however, I think Kraven the Hunter is a perfect role for him. That does make me wonder though, does Sony own the rights to all Spidey villains as it stands? Asking mostly because you get a lot of Spidey villains that cross into other hero territory, like Kingpin being a guy that serves as a big antagonistic force for both Spidey and Daredevil; while Kraven is most certainly more a Spidey thing, is it still possible to use his character without him?
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I am glad that despite the philosophical disagreement we can conclude that he'd be amazing as Kraven.

Kraven has appeared as both a Black Panther villain and a Tigra villain but he's almost certainly considered a Spider-Man villain and owned by Sony.

That being said if we want to cheat a bit and absolutely must get Keanu the best possible role for him, I think we can blend elements of Kraven into the actual Black Panther villain we definitely own known as "White Wolf". As such we could arguably use a "Kraven-esque" character that hits all the same major notes without actually using Kraven and thus not needing to negotiate with Sony.

Unless someone's dying to have White Wolf be played straight I think casting Keanu as a hybrid White Wolf/Kraven character would probably be ideal.
 
King crimson said:
Unless someone's dying to have White Wolf be played straight I think casting Keanu as a hybrid White Wolf/Kraven character would probably be ideal.
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I wonder if it would be possible for us to leave him unnamed until such a time that a deal with Sony can go through, build up some measure of mystique that we don't know his real name, and afterwards justify it as Chameleon covering his brother's ass as an insurance policy.

Oohhh, maybe even tie them both into Red Room as former operatives and the like.
 
Orion Ultor said:
I wonder if it would be possible for us to leave him unnamed until such a time that a deal with Sony can go through, build up some measure of mystique that we don't know his real name, and afterwards justify it as Chameleon covering his brother's ass as an insurance policy.

Oohhh, maybe even tie them both into Red Room as former operatives and the like.
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I don't think this is a character who would be massively built up across multiple movies. Like there's no need to build up a massive amount of mystique for this character. Lets get a Black Panther movie in the pipeline before we try foreshadowing a specific hypothetical villain whos name we don't even have concretely locked down.

Now when it comes to leaving things unnamed, I think it's obvious that we're going to leave him unnamed because it's not worth trying to build up a character we can't even properly name as of now. When it comes to the branding I'd prefer to hope for the best but plan for the worst. In brainstorming assume that we will need to use the White Wolf name and identity and that all deals with Sony fail. If we get Kraven that's great but it's generally better to make plans that aren't dependent on any outside sources playing ball with us.

As for making them former Leviathan/Red Room operatives we could only do that if we get the go ahead on making the character Kraven in actuality as opposed to making a Kraven-esque character. Like if we're going with White Wolf as the character's name and that character is going to be used in a Black Panther movie, there's no good reason to deliberately change the character's ethnicity to be Russian and to tie it to the Red Room when it's not super important to the characterization and it's likely to muddy the waters there. The only thing that making White Wolf more explicitly Russian gets us is that it makes it more obvious that we're grafting one character onto another and invites comparison from Sony.
 
@overmind, do any of the rolls affect music? Because that's part of what makes a movie memorable, IMO. Also, we had rolls for it in Charcolt's quest, so I was wondering if we're differing from that quest in. terms of music as well.
 
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Carnie or Spy? - Planning Session: Hawkeye (January 2009)
  • Threadmarks
    • Hawkeye was both a difficult and easy character to write for. From his first appearance in Tales of Suspense #57 the man had been shown to be extremely talented with a bow, his backstory had been clearly defined and it had very little to none ret coning. His adversary list was not that big, sharing most of his villains with the rest of the Avengers, but he had remained popular enough to be a constant in nearly every single Avenger Issue, at some points briefly getting his own Title comic.

    He is, however, a difficult man to get into movies. Clint Barton origin was that he was trained by carnies, he was jealous of the attention iron Man was receiving and became a crook allying with the Black Widow before disappearing for a time and then joining the Avengers because of course he did!!

    You loved Marvel, you truly did, but it's moments like this that make you wonder what the hell were they on when they conceived that particular story?!

    And they better don't get you started on his marriage to Mockingbird and divorce!

    The Ultimate version, a reboot of the one you're more familiar with, has him being an agent of SHIELD along with the Black Widow, which you could very well use, or perhaps even combine with the original.

    Perhaps not all however, that Barton was an asshole.

    Stahelski and Leitch Inspiration: 78

    Luckily both Stahelski and Leitch agreed with you, and managed to write something of a pitch. It's not as through as James Wan's was, but then again this is their first project. As they've told you, they are willing to work with whatever script you have.

    And you have to admit, it's not half bad.

    It clearly takes inspiration from the Ultimates' Hawkeye while also clearly paying homage to the original.

    It starts with a break in of one of SHIELDS databases by one of its own agents; Nick Fury is told they stole the entire backlog of Agents identities causing a full recall of those assets. Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD, who is in the middle of a mission when it goes south at the same time SHIELD tries to contact him, having to fight his way out. When he arrives he is debriefed by Fury and tasked with finding the traitor and retrieve the Database.

    Clint disguises himself as one of his personas, Buck Crisholm, as he enters the Spy underbelly finding information about the latest jobs and auctions. It's there that he meets with one of his contacts (from SHIELD or another organization, it's left vague if they know his real identity, though it could be clarified later) who tells him about rare movements from some organizations. He then finds the rogue agent and tries to steal back the information but it turns out it was a trap, and after a fight he is captured and taken in by the ones behind it all: The Maggia.

    He is interrogated, he escapes, tries to stop the transfer but fails, then he allies with his contact to stop the rogue agent, but is double crossed once more, and then set up for SHIELD to suspect him to be in with the rogue agent from the start. From there we have the climax, with the Maggia Leader or representative ready to receive the information as Baton is being sent into custody by SHIELD, eventually escaping with aid from someone (Preferably established at the start) and stopping the transaction.

    All in all, the plot seems more like a skeleton than a proper pitch, but it is their first time after all. The fact that they could only come with "Rogue Agent" shows they haven't checked the whole source material, but it's something that can be altered, hopefully.

    They are willing to make any change you think it's necessary to make it work as well, but are not too concerned if you choose another script.

    This is good, as you have other ideas from which to select.

    [] [Pitch] Use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch for Hawkeye.
    [] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an Agent of SHIELD who is sent on a dangerous mission against Leviathan, an organization opposing SHIELD. In this he's accompanied by fellow Agent Bobbi Morse as they deal with the deadly Black Widows, agents trained since birth to follow orders, and their leader: Natasha Romanoff.
    - [] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoor where he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)
    - [] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an out of work Circus performer who is suddenly involved in a deadly Spy Game when he becomes witnesses to a murder. Now he must try and survive with his own skills as agents, from both sides, chase after him in order to either save him or silence him.
    - [] [Pitch] Clint Barton is a retired con-man wishing to live in peace. He is dragged into a final job by his brother, Barney Barton, but then left to hold the blame as he runs off. Clint now has to track his brother, all the while dodging SHIELD agents and solving the riddle: "What is Phase 2?"
    - [] [Pitch] I can make a different Pitch: Write In
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoor where he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)

    Honestly, they themselves said that they don't mind using a different script, so I don't want to use their barebones script. And I like @King crimson's a lot, so there's also that.

    Edit: Also, I'm making a Hawkeye II pitch that involves Barney, and I don't want to just throw that into the trash. :lol:
     
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    [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoorwhere he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)

    Sorry SaL. Gotta go with Crimson's pitch here😛
     
    [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoorwhere he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)


    "... are you sure you don't wanna just be a script writer? For a production guy, you're writing an awful lot of pitches."
     
    [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoor where he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)

    So I'm obviously going to vote for my own pitch but I do genuinely think it is the best of the bunch

    The pitch Stahelski and Leitch came up with is kind of bad and does a lot more Maggia setup than I'd like. I think it's pretty telling that the antagonist isn't even named. I also think that besides the heavy handed Maggia setup (which we can also loosely do in my pitch as well) my pitch more or less does everything their pitch wants to do but better.

    The "Black Widows and Bobbi Morse" pitch sounds fun but there would likely be a lot less focus on Hawkeye and Perlmutter might have problems with a solid 90% of the cast all being women.

    The out of work circus performer pitch feels really barebones and empty and the Barney Barton pitch also feels empty and a little cliche as well. Like the question of "what is phase 2?" just doesn't seem like an engaging plot hook.

    TLDR: I think my pitch is the best one available

    Edit: Also fun fact but Hawkeye's been kind of an asshole in much more than the Ultimate comics. Look up how he acted in his run on the West Coast Avengers and his dynamic with Captain America and you get to see Hawkeye at his most pointlessly argumentative and contrarian. we're probably not going to do anything like that but I do think it's worth noting and I think part of the reason why they brought him into the Avengers lineup initially was so that he could be a contrarian asshole who clashes with the leadership and naturally generates drama.
     
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    King crimson said:
    The out of work circus performer pitch feels really barebones and empty and the Barney Barton pitch also feels empty and a little cliche as well. Like the question of "what is phase 2?" just doesn't seem like an engaging plot hook.
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    We don't even know the answer to that as well, we haven't written the pitches for the phase 2 movies yet. :V
     
    [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoor where he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)
     
    King crimson said:
    Edit: Also fun fact but Hawkeye's been kind of an asshole in much more than the Ultimate comics. Look up how he acted in his run on the West Coast Avengers and his dynamic with Captain America and you get to see Hawkeye at his most pointlessly argumentative and contrarian. we're probably not going to do anything like that but I do think it's worth noting and I think part of the reason why they brought him into the Avengers lineup initially was so that he could be a contrarian asshole who clashes with the leadership and naturally generates drama.
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    Maybe we could adapt this into him being the voice of reason but being a bit too snobbish about it at times. He's not afraid to call out people out on doing dumb things, but he tends to be abrasive at times. That could also work with his possible temper that @King crimson hinted at with Hawkeye attacking Black Widow at the end of the pitch.
     
    [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoor where he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)

    Seems legit.
     
    [X] [Pitch] Don't use Stahelski and Leitch's Pitch; you have other ideas that can be used.
    - [X] [Pitch] Clint Barton is an agent of SHIELD sent on a mission to retrieve SHIELD information stolen by a mysterious figure. This quest sends near around the world to the city of Madripoor where he will face the Black Widow herself, as well as his former mentor: Jacques Duquesne. (King crimson's Pitch)
     
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