Remove ads

There is no emotion... (A Jedi Order Quest)

Reader mode
gman391 said:
No where did I say that not failing missions didn't matter. What I said was that failure was inevitable and it was better to have Jedi who can deal with that because they are well trained to be as good as they possibly can be before they go out on their own. Instead of large teams of Jedi who are at best going to hope one of them has the skill set for it, and hope that isn't one of the ones who as you put it 'died' .
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The skill totals for each team govern whether a failure occurs.

gman391 said:
And I believe it is fully reasonable supposition that one on one training helps prevent falls to the Dark Side. You point to multiple teachers having a chance to notice things. I point to them not knowing any one student well enough to say if they need more help. So why would they be better?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe, maybe not. It's conjecture. It's not solid enough to overcome the overwhelming difference between linear growth and exponential growth and the sheer difference in skill totals.

gman391 said:
To your last point. It's not war time!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Have you maybe missed a few updates? The Republic is at war and we voted to join in.

gman391 said:
Now we're trying to hold it together. Doing that by pumping out half trained recruits who barely know what they're doing isn't going to help that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's empirically untrue here. It's a 1 point bonus. The many students doctrine still produces perfectly competent Jedi. You're talking like they'd keep Padawan stats forever.

gman391 said:
You say that a higher number of recruits means more chances to get a Yoda or a Mace. I don't see that, exceptional recruits in terms of force ability are always going to stand out and be prioritized because Force calls to Force.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If this weren't a quest, you'd be right. I think each student we train will roll for their stats though, so every initiate is as good as any other. Accordingly the way to get more exceptional Jedi is to train as many as possible.

gman391 said:
I see people panicking because we got a higher than usual spike of initiates, but saying we must change course over it is like saying that because we have a higher than usual amount of hangovers after new years day we should invest extensively in hang over cures for February. This spike is not going to last, and we can work through it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The numbers say that there are thousands of potential initiates out there in the galaxy. Running out of initiates (assuming we can spare the numbers to keep doing recruitment) is unlikely to be an issue. That's a vein we can keep mining for a long time. Don't forget that training more Jedi keeps more initiates coming in because there are more Jedi to search for them, the whole thing feeds into itself.

gman391 said:
I don't see the potential gains of numbers evening out to the quality. Jedi aren't about numbers. They're about ability.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Keep in mind that this isn't a novel where story logic is everything, it's a quest with mechanics. If the average Jedi has an average stat of 3, a +1 to all Jedi stats is equivalent to having 33% more Jedi. The many student model gets us more than 300% more Jedi, so it is objectively overwhelmingly better stat-wise than the stat boost from the one student model. It also means we have more Jedi to compensate for wartime losses.

This isn't really one of those times in a quest where all the choices are equally good so we should choose the one we most like the narrative of. If we don't train everyone we can right now we're shooting ourselves in the foot from here on out in a way that will permanently leave us behind where we could be.
 
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes they do, and I want each Jedi to have the maximum number of skill points they have. You want to have the maximum number of Jedi.

And that's where we fundamentally disagree. I believe that the story in quest will trump mechanics. That no amount of gaming the system, or trying to future proof will prevent Volkirium from throwing us challenges and making it so that any of our choices has consequences both positive and negative. Anything else would make this a boring mechanistic quest with no real point but make numbers go up which is what we have cookie clicker for. So yes story logic is not supreme, but I think it's way more important than mechanics.

So the question is what makes a more interesting set of challenges. For me it's balancing character personalities and seeing where they fit best. You have different goals there it seems.

As for it being a war. That is what I would call hyperbole, nothing shown in the updates is a War it's a peace keeping action, possibly the most important one the Republic has done since the end of the Jedi Civil War. But a war? No the Chancellor was using a figure of speech to establish how serious they were.
 
gman391 said:
As for it being a war. That is what I would call hyperbole, nothing shown in the updates is a War it's a peace keeping action, possibly the most important one the Republic has done since the end of the Jedi Civil War. But a war? No the Chancellor was using a figure of speech to establish how serious they were.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Chancellor appeared to be genuinely concerned about the possibility of losing. To the point where she was willing to beg for help. Czerka appears to have resources on a scale that allows it to wage galactic war, like the Banking Clan of the Clone Wars era. I doubt it can overpower the Republic, but it might well be able to outlast its will to fight. Or get lucky with assassins.
 
[] Plan Expansion
I have been convinced by the arguments given that this is the more effective plane, while I would prefer to have higher quality padawans, narratively we are a miniscule order that is functionally useless to the galaxy right now. We do not have significant enough numbers to contribute in a meaningful way to almost any true conflict, further it is entirely in character for us to push this as Meetra gave us orders to rebuild the jedi order to the best of our ability. While I dislike the backtracking, those five points aren't going to be doing much this turn anyway so if we are going to do it, we should do it now.

Edit:
[X] Plan: More Knights Sooner
Okay I have been convinced, while I still think that we need more jedi NOW, I am willing to maintain and push a higher quality jedi order, thinking of it in terms of the current state of the galaxy we don't actually need a massive number of jedi being trained and pushed out immediately, our value in the current conflict is as small elite units something we are accomplishing quite well, although I do think we need to get some way to train up more of our initiates faster, they still need to get to the level of padawan before they get folded into our researched training regime or at least that's how I've interpreted things.
 
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye said:
The Chancellor appeared to be genuinely concerned about the possibility of losing. To the point where she was willing to beg for help. Czerka appears to have resources on a scale that allows it to wage galactic war, like the Banking Clan of the Clone Wars era. I doubt it can overpower the Republic, but it might well be able to outlast its will to fight. Or get lucky with assassins.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes losing the political fight or indeed being assassinated, but that's not a war in the conventional sense. And if Czerka was able to fight a galactic power, there's no way it would just let places like Kashyykk go. It is so clearly push comes to shove the Republic can beat it.

It's a business, and war isn't terribly good for business if you're on the losing side.
 
gman391 said:
Yes losing the political fight or indeed being assassinated, but that's not a war in the conventional sense. And if Czerka was able to fight a galactic power, there's no way it would just let places like Kashyykk go. It is so clearly push comes to shove the Republic can beat it.

It's a business, and war isn't terribly good for business if you're on the losing side.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Corporations in Star Wars can be as militarily powerful as empires. Czerka is in that weight class, with the Outer Rim under its thumb.

Even if it is something like 40% of the military power of the mobilized Republic in a direct fight, that is enough that the Republic could lose. Think about the U.S. loss to Vietnam. For Czerka the fight is a matter of survival, but the Republic will only be able to continue as long as political will endures. Inflict enough losses, drag things out long enough, deny the Core enough Rim resources needed for its economy, and Czerka will effectively win by default as support for the war crumbles past a critical point. If that happens there will be no stopping Czerka's excesses and it will essentially have impunity to corrupt the political system and otherwise do whatever it wants.
 
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye said:
Corporations in Star Wars can be as militarily powerful as empires. Czerka is in that weight class, with the Outer Rim under its thumb.

Even if it is something like 40% of the military power of the mobilized Republic in a direct fight, that is enough that the Republic could lose. Think about the U.S. loss to Vietnam. For Czerka the fight is a matter of survival, but the Republic will only be able to continue as long as political will endures. Inflict enough losses, drag things out long enough, deny the Core enough Rim resources needed for its economy, and Czerka will effectively win by default as support for the war crumbles past a critical point. If that happens there will be no stopping Czerka's excesses and it will essentially have impunity to corrupt the political system and otherwise do whatever it wants.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Is it? Or is it time for some deniable assets to get purged as Rezkac Incorporated stages a hostile take over and smoothly slides into Czerka's niche? The Clone wars happened because Palpatine made them happen. A real corporation gets away with it's shit by spinning off a few divisions for the crowd, restructuring rebranding and then continue as it was with a fresh coat of paint. That's what we have to watch out for. Not Czerka somehow pulling a fleet out of it's ass (because armies are expensive as fuck ask the East India Company) and fighting a war of attrition (which is also expensive as fuck even if you win)

We've seen it in the turn actions. They aren't waging a war back, they're not blockading planets. They're using deniable assets hiring mercenaries, trying to go to ground.

Corporations like Czerka are in it for the money, its people are in it for the money, There is no loyalty to the company that's going to have people stay and fight on long enough to give the Republic war weariness. They're going cut deals and try to get out while keeping their pieces of the pie.
 
gman391 said:
Is it? Or is it time for some deniable assets to get purged as Rezkac Incorporated stages a hostile take over and smoothly slides into Czerka's niche? The Clone wars happened because Palpatine made them happen. A real corporation gets away with it's shit by spinning off a few divisions for the crowd, restructuring rebranding and then continue as it was with a fresh coat of paint. That's what we have to watch out for. Not Czerka somehow pulling a fleet out of it's ass (because armies are expensive as fuck ask the East India Company) and fighting a war of attrition (which is also expensive as fuck even if you win)

We've seen it in the turn actions. They aren't waging a war back, they're not blockading planets. They're using deniable assets hiring mercenaries, trying to go to ground.

Corporations like Czerka are in it for the money, its people are in it for the money, There is no loyalty to the company that's going to have people stay and fight on long enough to give the Republic war weariness. They're going cut deals and try to get out while keeping their pieces of the pie.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're making a mistake thinking about them like real world corporations, which are wealthy compared to individuals but have competitors and are nothing compared to the resources of governments. That's the wrong paradigm for the megacorporations of Star Wars.

Imagine thousands of years of corporate mergers and acquisitions creating a single cartel so enormous it has more money than the government. That was the situation with the Banking Clan and Trade Federation in the Clone Wars era; they even maintained fleets of warships. Which they needed to have even when they weren't rebelling, because piracy is a major problem in Star Wars thanks to the Hutts and weak Republic policing of the Rim.

We've seen absolutely nothing in the turn actions to indicate that battles are not happening; we just haven't seen the Jedi involved in them. They could easily be occurring off camera. Absence of evidence one way or another isn't something you can base a conclusion on. It's just an unwarranted assumption, treacherous ground for the truth indeed.

As for loyalty, you might be surprised how many people will take money to risk their lives, even when the last several batches of people to do so are all dead. It happened in many historical wars, even predating the era of nationalistic fervor. It is irrational behavior, but there are many motivations for it. Economic desperation or an inability to dispassionately judge the personal risks are two common ones, and the Rim is full of desperate people. And once someone is in, militaries can make it very hazardous to your health to attempt to leave.

Plus, this is Star Wars. If you can't find warm bodies you can always go with droids like the Trade Federation did, and Czerka and the Trade Federation have a great deal in common.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
We've seen absolutely nothing in the turn actions to indicate that battles are not happening; we just haven't seen the Jedi involved in them. They could easily be occurring off camera. Absence of evidence one way or another isn't something you can base a conclusion on. It's just an unwarranted assumption, treacherous ground for the truth indeed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would further suggest that these battles are almost certainly happening off camera because our entire order is only involved in 12 - 15 situations a year, we straight up do not have the numbers to make a significant impact on this conflict without the aid of the Republic.
 
[X] Plan: More Knights Sooner

I'm a believer in starting how we mean to go on. Once we start going quantity, we'll almost certainly start hitting the sunk cost fallacy, and I'm not interested in diluting the Jedi Order into an army division. The Jedi were, and should remain, a small and highly able group capable of making the difference where it's needed rather than blanketing the galaxy with sheer numbers. That's not our role.

Researching Recruitment with this doctrine was probably a bad call though. We don't really need that initiate stream. The initiates we came across in the course of our patrols was enough for the time being, and we don't have an Agri Corps to provide a pipeline for the excess of initiates compared to masters. Not yet, anyway.
 
If expansion wins, it's a complete waste of research. That's a third of our research spent going backwards. Jedi are not about getting more bodies through the door. We went to war with the Sith with only seven Jedi and won. Czerka is a problem, but frankly even a war with them is not worth sabotaging the foundation of the order, especially since we actually have Republic backing.

We made a choice already - and reversing directions immediately would do nothing but waste time and betrayal a fatal lack of sincerity. Why even have the first vote if we're just going to veer the other way again? Throwing numbers at the problem and compromising our quality is a tactic that should be reserved for other groups.

Czerka has nothing, nothing on Darth Nihilus or Kreia or the True Sith.
 
Last edited:
I like the philosophy of one teacher - one student better, and I think that comes before any crunch. But also -

A major reason I stopped reading that one not-an-empire-quest is because there were too many characters to keep track of, so no, I'm not that interested in getting 25 new POVs in a turn or two.
 
The Englanderish said:
If expansion wins, it's a complete waste of research. That's a third of our research spent going backwards. Jedi are not about getting more bodies through the door. We went to war with the Sith with only seven Jedi and won. Czerka is a problem, but frankly even a war with them is not worth sabotaging the foundation of the order, especially since we actually have Republic backing.

We made a choice already - and reversing directions immediately would do nothing but waste time and betrayal a fatal lack of sincerity. Why even have the first vote if we're just going to veer the other way again? Throwing numbers at the problem and compromising our quality is a tactic that should be reserved for other groups.

Czerka has nothing, nothing on Darth Nihilus or Kreia or the True Sith.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're thinking about story logic instead of looking at the mechanics that actually determine success or horrible failure. Sure, lots of iconic Jedi stories involve one or a few Jedi surviving against overwhelming opposition against all odds. That's not how the quest works. We roll dice here. This is as much a game as it is a story.

Hell, if we wind up in a situation where a few Jedi have to triumph against all odds, they will probably die and we've already screwed up.

The numbers are just better for us the quantity way, and it is the numbers that matter. It's objectively inarguable, and the two aren't even close. Please reconsider and pick the choice that is mechanically better for us.


Muer'ci said:
I like the philosophy of one teacher - one student better, and I think that comes before any crunch. But also -

A major reason I stopped reading that one not-an-empire-quest is because there were too many characters to keep track of, so no, I'm not that interested in getting 25 new POVs in a turn or two.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I imagine the QM will divide the Jedi up into teams or some such when the numbers get that large. Doing them all the way we're handling the Councilors would be a pain.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan: More Knights Sooner
Going this so that we have a large pool of knights and masters, when peacetime rolls around we can switch over to multiple Padawans and we won't be piling 20 initiates Per each master.
 
Last edited:
TaliesinSkye said:
You're thinking about story logic instead of looking at the mechanics that actually determine success or horrible failure. Sure, lots of iconic Jedi stories involve one or a few Jedi surviving against overwhelming opposition against all odds. That's not how the quest works. We roll dice here.

Hell, if we wind up in a situation where a few Jedi have to triumph against all odds, we've already screwed up.

The numbers are just better for us the quantity way, and it is the numbers that matter. It's objectively inarguable, and the two aren't even close. Please reconsider and pick the choice that is mechanically better for us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
…and you've lost me, I was willing to put quantity first when it made sense to me story wise (I have since been convinced that it makes more sense to maintain quality and have changed my vote) but in my experience while mechanics are important to questers most go with what makes the most sense in terms of the story or what they find to be the most interesting rather than what is mechanically best. I have also found that QMs tend to be fairly forgiving of story based decisions.
 
TrigE898 said:
…and you've lost me, I was willing to put quantity first when it made sense to me story wise (I have since been convinced that it makes more sense to maintain quality and have changed my vote) but in my experience while mechanics are important to questers most go with what makes the most sense in terms of the story or what they find to be the most interesting rather than what is mechanically best. I have also found that QMs tend to be fairly forgiving of story based decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Does it make any story sense for our nascent Jedi order to send 2/3rds of our current initiates home untrained? That would be crazy, to my view. They'd double up on Padawans to get through the crunch at least, even if they eventually wanted to switch to a one student per master model when things calmed down.
 
@TaliesinSkye

I'm looking at it from the perspective of what will make them most money. Even if they are literally Amazon of the world. It's still cheaper for them to fight a rearguard action and become a new company in a few years with a new face, but same old profit streams. Because we're not actually do anything to disrupt those profit streams not really. And yes people will do a lot for money, but Czerka has shown repeatedly that it's a bad actor, no point in signing up if you aren't going to get paid.

If battles are happening off screen and nothing comes up to show we're needed then I feel that we're safe to say that they are battles that we couldn't have made a difference either way.

That's all leaving aside that the Jedi Order should not ever be a primarily military force. They work better as special operations teams even when they do do military. They shouldn't be waging multiplanet siege campaigns and leading wars as generals and admirals. That's what broke the Order in the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars.

You say mechanics trump story. They don't not for me, they help create story but what happens is going to be interesting regardless of what we do. I don't think that the story of throwing hordes of semi trained jedi at things is interesting. Even if arguably it might be mechanically best. Which I'm not sure it is. I don't think numbers are going to be the cure all, because if I saw someone trying so blatantly to game the quest that way, I'd make sure that more people meant more chances for failure too so it would even out to being roughly the same. (And it really should mean more chances for failure because more people equals more probabilities)

And nothing you've said has shown any evidence that it would be interesting. The Jedi are elite warrior kung fu wizard knights, that is far better served by training them to the best of their abilities, then diluting it just for the sake of a numbers game.

Finally I don't think we're going to send all our initiates home. We'll send them to Dantooine and have Mical and maybe one other teacher Jedi teach them in preparation for them to become padawans if it comes down to that.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Does it make any story sense for our nascent Jedi order to send 2/3rds of our current initiates home untrained? That would be crazy, to my view. They'd double up on Padawans to get through the crunch at least, even if they eventually wanted to switch to a one student per master model when things calmed down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not how initiates work though, they remain as initiates and are taught the basics of the force until such time as they build their lightsaber and are chosen by either a knight or master as a padawan. While theoretically upping our recruitment numbers and allowing masters to take multiple padawans ups our available jedi the truth is that we don't have enough sufficiently advanced initiates to make it necessary and by the time we do it is likely that we will have advanced enough initiates in the meantime to make it unnecessary. This is what I referred to in my edited vote post, that our changed training regime wouldn't actually do anything for us until our initiates have progressed to padawan, it would in fact have the opposite effect right now as our recruitment numbers would go up but we still wouldn't have many padawans. Our lack of padawans isn't due to our training regime but rather we only have a few people currently advanced enough for further training as a jedi, presumably our current padawans will be progressing to knight fairly soon given their age and the fact that at least one of them, arguably both, has passed a trial of the spirit.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Does it make any story sense for our nascent Jedi order to send 2/3rds of our current initiates home untrained? That would be crazy, to my view. They'd double up on Padawans to get through the crunch at least, even if they eventually wanted to switch to a one student per master model when things calmed down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Patience, taking the long view, and not wanting to disadvantage their current students by degrading their training. That'd be the likely mindset of the Council deciding on this. Weather the rough patch with integrity rather than compromise.

Also, well, there's no saying we'll be sending them home untrained. There are other things we can do with them. It's something we'd have to get round to setting up eventually: an outlet for the initiates who show less promise than their peers, and thus don't gain padawanship. Unless we stick with school-style classes rather than one-to-one mentoring, which I am very firmly against, it's something we should take care of, and I don't see a glaringly obvious reason to save it for later.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
You're thinking about story logic instead of looking at the mechanics that actually determine success or horrible failure. Sure, lots of iconic Jedi stories involve one or a few Jedi surviving against overwhelming opposition against all odds. That's not how the quest works. We roll dice here. This is as much a game as it is a story.

Hell, if we wind up in a situation where a few Jedi have to triumph against all odds, they will probably die and we've already screwed up.

The numbers are just better for us the quantity way, and it is the numbers that matter. It's objectively inarguable, and the two aren't even close. Please reconsider and pick the choice that is mechanically better for us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ultimately I'm a roleplay type of quest player - and I don't think Voik would give us a trick option like that so soon.

Were we in a different time period with different context, I might be more inclined to go for multiple padawans. But as it stands, we're not too long off the heels of Exar Kun, so I think the lessons and reforms from that should be most in mind for our leaders - especially if we've got holocrons mostly from that time, which we do.

TaliesinSkye said:
Does it make any story sense for our nascent Jedi order to send 2/3rds of our current initiates home untrained? That would be crazy, to my view. They'd double up on Padawans to get through the crunch at least, even if they eventually wanted to switch to a one student per master model when things calmed down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Given galactic populations, even if we took many padawans one master, we'd still be sending a lot more than 2/3rds home. We'd need like, lecture theatres for each master to not - and that would push past the sort of group size it would be viable to go on adventures with, effectively grounding the Order.
 
Where'd this idea that multiple student doctrine doesn't actually fully train people even come from? Canonically, Skywalker's academy proved that it works. It's not at all handing a lightsaber to people and telling them they're on their own.

@TrigE898 - We will be getting more initiates ready to become padawans soon; I expect a number this turn. They won't spend year after year as initiates without learning everything. That means we'll need to deal with the flood of potentials, or leave them unused.

gman391 said:
Which I'm not sure it is. I don't think numbers are going to be the cure all, because if I saw someone trying so blatantly to game the quest that way, I'd make sure that more people meant more chances for failure too so it would even out to being roughly the same. (And it really should mean more chances for failure because more people equals more probabilities)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What sort of QM sets out rules and then throws them aside because the players plan with them in mind? If a QM does that there's no point in having rules in the first place, they're just operating under fiat. You might as well plan around the rules being a thing; if you're wrong it doesn't matter, if you're right you improve your position in future turns by it.

Fezzes said:
Patience, taking the long view, and not wanting to disadvantage their current students by degrading their training. That'd be the likely mindset of the Council deciding on this. Weather the rough patch with integrity rather than compromise.

Also, well, there's no saying we'll be sending them home untrained. There are other things we can do with them. It's something we'd have to get round to setting up eventually: an outlet for the initiates who show less promise than their peers, and thus don't gain padawanship. Unless we stick with school-style classes rather than one-to-one mentoring, which I am very firmly against, it's something we should take care of, and I don't see a glaringly obvious reason to save it for later.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's a massive waste of resources to leave them untrained. And remember that the Council has sworn to rebuild the Order. It's their whole purpose. Getting back up to a proper size of thousands of Jedi with a linear growth model will take far, far longer. It will also leave the Order small and vulnerable for longer. It extends the time period in which it is vulnerable to being smothered in the cradle by a determined enemy.

The Englanderish said:
Given galactic populations, even if we took many padawans one master, we'd still be sending a lot more than 2/3rds home. We'd need like, lecture theatres for each master to not - and that would push past the sort of group size it would be viable to go on adventures with, effectively grounding the Order.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I've pointed out the fallacy with this argument before; even if we got more initiates than even the Many Students doctrine could take, being able to train more of them is still objectively better. A plan does not need to be perfect to be the best choice, merely better than the alternatives.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
It's a massive waste of resources to leave them untrained. And remember that the Council has sworn to rebuild the Order. It's their whole purpose. Getting back up to a proper size of thousands of Jedi with a linear growth model will take far, far longer. It will also leave the Order small and vulnerable for longer. It extends the time period in which it is vulnerable to being smothered in the cradle by a determined enemy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You overlooked the second half of my post saying that there are other uses for force-trained initiates. They're not untrained. You even say so yourself earlier in your post. There are other uses for them than the rigorous, demanding life of a Jedi. I believe it's a better path for us to accept this, that all can do their part, rather than needing to be a Jedi to be doing good with themselves. That's not a mindset that we're likely to fall into today or next year, but the Jedi Order is notorious for slipping into detached worldviews.

As for rebuilding the order, yes, we're rebuilding it. I just want to rebuild it with the strongest foundation that we can. I trust that we can weather the rough early years to emerge all the stronger for having taken the slower path. If you don't, that's fine, but you aren't swaying me with the arguments you've presented thusfar.

Getting smothered in the cradle? Take the recent assassination attempt. It wouldn't have mattered if there were three or thirty knights there if none were quite so well-rounded and capable as to be able to pull out a rocket launcher in response, unless you wanted a hundred knights to attempt to kung-fu crack troopers. Sometimes numbers just can't make the difference, and in the role that the Jedi fulfill, that's doubly in place. Numbers don't beat out quality in every scenario, nor should they. The reverse is also true. I doubt the QM is offering two distinct paths where one is factually better than the other, because then there'd not be much point in the choice.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
What sort of QM sets out rules and then throws them aside because the players plan with them in mind? If a QM does that there's no point in having rules in the first place, they're just operating under fiat. You might as well plan around the rules being a thing; if you're wrong it doesn't matter, if you're right you improve your position in future turns by it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well Volkirium hasn't actually explained anything about how rolling the dice works, so for all we know this is already a mechanic. It's called fine tuning rule sets, sometimes what you think works as an idea doesn't so you add rules patches to make things more balanced.

To chime in with others.

Making many students completely superior to one student is not a good way to design the rules. Trap options are bad ones and I'm giving Volkirium the benefit of the doubt that there aren't any.
So because of that I'm assuming there are trade offs between the doctrines , the obvious being that they won't be as well trained and they'll have more chances to screw up, be easier to fall to corruption.

Now no none of these are explicitly stated but they're all intuitive enough.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top