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The Streetwalker's Guide to the Hierarchy

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DirtyBean said:
That would really bum me out. Why even bother picking the mask Charater if you want to immediately final fixate. I just don't get it
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Because 75% of people who voted for Mask aren't active Quest participants and just voted for the sake of it, while 75% of active quest participants weren't Mask voters and would rather play literally anything else!
 
Gabbie said:
Because 75% of people who voted for Mask aren't active Quest participants and just voted for the sake of it, while 75% of active quest participants weren't Mask voters and would rather play literally anything else!
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Masked received 50 Votes, of which I can see 40 in preview; Angel 45, of which I can see the same amount.
Last Update, the following individuals voted:
Wolfy LaughsinLurking Naan GoldExRoot DirtyBean, Red Radio, Zampano, WHISPER, _brightwing, Me, Pseudopod, TheyWhoWatch, and Brainypicker.
Of which Masked received visible votes from:
LaughsinLurking, Naan, GoldExRoot, Zampano, _Brightwing, and Pseudopod.
and Angel received visible votes from:
Whisper_, TheyWhoWatch, Me (but I also voted for Mask.)

So, your statement is not merely wrong, but actively the opposite of correct. Even given as many non-visible Angel voters as possible are from the 13 thus-measured active people and not a Masked voter, you can only argue at most 46% of voters weren't Mask voters and would rather play literally anything else.
It is true that, by this measurement, at least 74% of Mask Voters aren't active quest participants(merely due to voting base size). But 92% of visible Angel voters aren't active quest participants either! Masked is, as one might expect of the winning option, more supported by the currently active voters.
 
JOEbob said:
Masked received 50 Votes, of which I can see 40 in preview; Angel 45, of which I can see the same amount.
Last Update, the following individuals voted:
Wolfy LaughsinLurking Naan GoldExRoot DirtyBean, Red Radio, Zampano, WHISPER, _brightwing, Me, Pseudopod, TheyWhoWatch, and Brainypicker.
Of which Masked received visible votes from:
LaughsinLurking, Naan, GoldExRoot, Zampano, _Brightwing, and Pseudopod.
and Angel received visible votes from:
Whisper_, TheyWhoWatch, Me (but I also voted for Mask.)

So, your statement is not merely wrong, but actively the opposite of correct. Even given as many non-visible Angel voters as possible are from the 13 thus-measured active people and not a Masked voter, you can only argue at most 46% of voters weren't Mask voters and would rather play literally anything else.
It is true that, by this measurement, at least 74% of Mask Voters aren't active quest participants(merely due to voting base size). But 92% of visible Angel voters aren't active quest participants either! Masked is, as one might expect of the winning option, more supported by the currently active voters.
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funny math man doing math.
 
Wolfy said:
People are seriously being very dramatic about this.
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Mask designing is one of the most meaningful ways I could still contribute to the quest. I don't think tactics is my forte compared say you or R'. Or my familiarity with lore.

So of course some of us would be invested. Even if this loses out, I'd rather we don't faff about morality and mechanics and call it out like what it is. Char gen salt.
 
_brightwing said:
Mask designing is one of the most meaningful ways I could still contribute to the quest. I don't think tactics is my forte compared say you or R'. Or my familiarity with lore.

So of course some of us would be invested. Even if this loses out, I'd rather we don't faff about morality and mechanics and call it out like what it is. Char gen salt.
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eh I mean again we can get crafting back up in about a week it just won't be quite as efficient.
 
firefrog600 said:
eh I mean again we can get crafting back up in about a week it just won't be quite as efficient.
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Why bother with getting crafting again when we have the easier solution to just final fixate on an existing mask. Getting crafting would mean having to sacrifice one of the other masks too to draw out adequate facelessness. Crimson Lost, Screentime, or Specter. Our tactics would be nothing but, optimal and excellence. There isn't room for whimsy, or heavens forbid crafting mask anyways for the sake of giving others power, without an explicit benefit for the protag.
 
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_brightwing said:
Why bother with getting crafting again when we have the easier solution to just final fixate on an existing mask. Getting crafting would mean having to sacrifice one of the other masks too to draw out adequate facelessness. Crimson Lost, Screentime, or Specter. Our tactics would be nothing but, optimal and excellence. There isn't room for whimsy, or heavens forbid crafting mask anyways for the sake of giving others power, without an explicit benefit for the protag.
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In fairness final fixation is quickish from what I know or can be but it takes more than a week. Also we could probably make zombiesque things to accrue facetime or something like that or maybe we can't that does sound a bit hard since masks require the concept of identity and I doubt we can make smart things starting out.
 
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No, Viscerality can absolutely be versatile provided we are creative enough. And shape passion into Dorian's narrative. All the systems are interesting that way, that we can leverage in unconventional ways. Its understandable why people might want a change of settings. I just, hate that masks would have to fall in the wayside without the chance to explore its synergy with all these unique magic systems..

I had so much plans in the works to integrate Viscerality with maskcraft.. semi sentient masks, a meld of thematic materials and grafts. Something new moving beyond plain Viscerality and mask making.

Acolyte said:
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The reason I am as alarmed as I am now about this is because a number of questors having made their intentions about removing mask craft as a mechanic very clear. I apologise if I'm coming across as too confrontational, but I want to do everything in my ability to not let the build die a quiet death like this.
 
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_brightwing said:
No, Viscerality can absolutely be versatile provided we are creative enough. And shape passion into Dorian's narrative. All the systems are interesting that way, that we can leverage in unconventional ways. Its understandable why people might want a change of settings. I just, hate that masks would have to fall in the wayside without the chance to explore its synergy with all these unique magic systems..

I had so much plans in the works to integrate Viscerality with maskcraft.. semi sentient masks, a meld of thematic materials and grafts. Something new moving beyond plain Viscerality and mask making.



The reason I am as alarmed as I am now about this is because a number of questors having made their intentions about removing mask craft as a mechanic very clear. I apologise if I'm coming across as too confrontational, but I want to do everything in my ability to not let the build die a quiet death like this.
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eh its doubtful it'd fully die since we have it as our primary ability even if we final fixated.
 
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that we get Viscerality with no Import. That is quite Import(heh)ant. Usually I would expect a new system to cost us FB; fact that we get a reasonably powerful and useful one right away with minimal cost on our end is quite notable.
 
firefrog600 said:
eh its doubtful it'd fully die since we have it as our primary ability even if we final fixated.
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Yes, but will we pursue it? Look at the discord exchanges and the ones in the thread and ask yourself.. Do you honestly think resources would be invested by the planmakers on maskcraft afterwards? The entire thread engagement would be on the dynamics of the new world and seeing how to fit Dorian into the new build.

The way things will go is plans written with less and less reliance of masks until they are phased out entirely. I would love to be proven wrong, but the vitriol I've been seeing over it makes me disinclined to trust.
 
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_brightwing said:
Why bother with getting crafting again when we have the easier solution to just final fixate on an existing mask. Getting crafting would mean having to sacrifice one of the other masks too to draw out adequate facelessness. Crimson Lost, Screentime, or Specter. Our tactics would be nothing but, optimal and excellence. There isn't room for whimsy, or heavens forbid crafting mask anyways for the sake of giving others power, without an explicit benefit for the protag.
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Well, assuming Dorian didn't take the obviously superior route of making a quick Facelessness mask before trading in the Artificer's face or trading a quick facelessness mask made in that time (perhaps on the way to the Warlord; it could take literally zero time depending on how things go.), Specter is a basic mask we could remake anywhere as soon as Mask Making is up and running, and so the obviously best choice of those and trivially less important than Mask Making.
 
[X] Full Trade

After a long consideration, I think that this is the way to go.

Consider two tribes at war; should you give one a bunch of guns, they would naturally overpower the other tribe, slay all the men, rape all the women, all that good stuff. The usual. It could be argued that the person providing weapon is one responsible for the slaughter, but reality of situation is that at one point one tribe would be and slaughter the other tribe anyway. In the similar vein here, we have tribe of undead and tribe of humans going at it - Undead appear sapient enough that we don't really mind if they come out on the top and the logical conclusion of this world is either side exterminating the other due to fundamental biological differences between the two. We just add a factor that will hasten the process.

Of course, being a death dealer is not something to be proud of, yet it is something we signed up for with whole trading thing. And this line of thinking is the healthiest in the long term; rather than looking to exert our influence on the worlds we meet(i.e. "make them better") just be neutral, fairly trade for what we want and keep strolling down the street. The sooner we develop a healthy mindset of "not my fucking issue" the sooner we get to dodge various unpleasant situations borne out of would be heroics.

As our powers grows, so does our ability to do good with little cost to our person. Charity is easier when you are rich, after all. Hundreds worlds in we can just create "healing plagues" and release them in every new world we encounter, that kind of thing. Repay our debt once we get ours. All in all, I think that embracing this mindset will be very healthy for us, and that starts with Full Trade.

Additionally it is undoubtedly mechanically the most sound option, so there's that. It would suck if the work we put in last ~3 updates to get here gets wasted.
 
Wolfy said:
[X] Full Trade

After a long consideration, I think that this is the way to go.

Consider two tribes at war; should you give one a bunch of guns, they would naturally overpower the other tribe, slay all the men, rape all the women, all that good stuff. The usual. It could be argued that the person providing weapon is one responsible for the slaughter, but reality of situation is that at one point one tribe would be and slaughter the other tribe anyway. In the similar vein here, we have tribe of undead and tribe of humans going at it - Undead appear sapient enough that we don't really mind if they come out on the top and the logical conclusion of this world is either side exterminating the other due to fundamental biological differences between the two. We just add a factor that will hasten the process.

Of course, being a death dealer is not something to be proud of, yet it is something we signed up for with whole trading thing. And this line of thinking is the healthiest in the long term; rather than looking to exert our influence on the worlds we meet(i.e. "make them better") just be neutral, fairly trade for what we want and keep strolling down the street. The sooner we develop a healthy mindset of "not my fucking issue" the sooner we get to dodge various unpleasant situations borne out of would be heroics.

As our powers grows, so does our ability to do good with little cost to our person. Charity is easier when you are rich, after all. Hundreds worlds in we can just create "healing plagues" and release them in every new world we encounter, that kind of thing. Repay our debt once we get ours. All in all, I think that embracing this mindset will be very healthy for us, and that starts with Full Trade.

Additionally it is undoubtedly mechanically the most sound option, so there's that. It would suck if the work we put in last ~3 updates to get here gets wasted.
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The first segment could use some work cause it actively made me feel more bad for even partially trading with the zombies, and it feels a lot more like denial of our hypothetical horrid actions
You don't convince people in a moral dilemma to make a deal by describing a fucked up alternate examples results

The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parts were more convincing as a "Ends justify the means" argument
 
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[X] Partial Trade

Imagine trading off what is literally your best tool so you can become a noob in a whole different magic tree.
 
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