The Streetwalker's Guide to the Hierarchy

[SirKana]

[X] Full Trade - Accept the offered deal. Artificer's Face in return for complete Visceral accession.

[X] Partial Trade - Offer Screentime for a Visceral bank instead; it's not ideal and it'll take you forever to figure out, but it's cheaper and doesn't massively empower them.

So mechanically best option is Full trade, but this would make Dorian more apathetic to the plight of others, I feel fine with this.

 

[_brightwing]

30 days give or take might be roughly ten worlds or less. Not counting situationals. Maybe even five?

I think what we need to think about is if we'd prefer not to have the mask making mechanic for those worlds or explore Viscerality and put its ability to use in diverse ways to compensate for mask making.

What kind of playstyle do we want after the tutorial world essentially ends? Play into the interdimensional salesman or Alex Mercer? What would bring the most engagement in the thread.. What kind of narrative do we want for Dorian moving forward?

First decisions are pivotal in setting in place a character's motivation and characterization.

 

[Wolfy]

Thats not synergy. Its just being complementary, it doesn't make either system better.

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Bro arguing semantics.

That is true for any magic system, so its not any specific synergy with viscerality.

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It works better when you have direct synergy. For example, if we are talking standard RPG fireball magic, you could have mask that upgrades it or interacts with fire magic to buff it, but that's extent of that interaction. With Viscerality, however, you can have mask that helps you improve yourself even more, then you put Glass and now you have Glass anti-magic/power copying and better Viscerality stats thanks to mask used earlier. Or you could use Master Shifter with shapeshifting and magic hormone production, or thing we spoke about earlier with thralls and masks for them or fact that Viscerality requires feeling with Masks that make you feel stuff etc.

Because systems have so many points of interaction Masks directly boosting Viscerality loops back to Viscerality having excellent synergy with Masks. The biggest downside of Masks is that you can only have one Mask at any given time, which Viscerality plays around to a great extent.

I could think of better magic systems for Masks, but at that point you are literally talking about custom magic systems.

A counterargument is that we don't really need Viscerality. Yes it works great, but we can make do with what we have. So I don't think people should care about its mechanical benefits that much - sure it's great but tbh you should look at this as 70% character decision vote, 30% mechanic vote.

30 days give or take might be roughly ten worlds or less. Not counting situationals. Maybe even five?

I think what we need to think about is if we'd prefer not to have the mask making mechanic for those worlds or explore Viscerality and put its ability to use in diverse ways to compensate for mask making.

What kind of playstyle do we want after the tutorial world essentially ends? Play into the interdimensional salesman or Alex Mercer? What would bring the most engagement in the thread.. What kind of narrative do we want for Dorian moving forward? First decisions are pivotal in setting in place a character's motivation and characterization.

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Glass with Viscerality could be fun I think.

 

[Acolyte]

Bro arguing semantics.

It works better when you have direct synergy. For example, if we are talking standard RPG fireball magic, you could have mask that upgrades it or interacts with fire magic to buff it, but that's extent of that interaction. With Viscerality, however, you can have mask that helps you improve yourself even more, then you put Glass and now you have Glass anti-magic/power copying and better Viscerality stats thanks to mask used earlier. Or you could use Master Shifter with shapeshifting and magic hormone production, or thing we spoke about earlier with thralls and masks for them or fact that Viscerality requires feeling with Masks that make you feel stuff etc.

Because systems have so many points of interaction Masks directly boosting Viscerality loops back to Viscerality having excellent synergy with Masks. The biggest downside of Masks is that you can only have one Mask at any given time, which Viscerality plays around to a great extent.

I could think of better magic systems for Masks, but at that point you are literally talking about custom magic systems.

A counterargument is that we don't really need Viscerality. Yes it works great, but we can make do with what we have. So I don't think people should care about its mechanical benefits that much - sure it's great but tbh you should look at this as 70% character decision vote, 30% mechanic vote.

Glass with Viscerality could be fun I think.

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What i mean by synergy was something like the skyrim enchanting loop.

Or an example from this quest would the interaction the skill increasing magic would have with this one. Increased skill leads to better masks, vetter masks lead to increased skills. Its a self reinforced loops of power.

 

[Donald Darf]

I'm objectively correct though? Undead are guys.

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I wasn't denying the personhood of the undead guys, they're definitely their own people now, even if a sorta semi-hivemind thing (whatever it specifically qualifies as)
I was just making a joke about us justifying trade with a genocidal faction

 

[JOEbob]

Joe this is basically what they just said they won't trade for in the update. Also a faceless mask isn't enough to just get crafting on masks all it would do is make faceless and none of them currently know how to craft more stuff that's what the crafting mask is for.

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Crafting a Mask is extremely easy. Any facial covering can qualify, Given facelessness; you could use a scrap of bark from a tree for a Mask if need be. Making good masks is harder, but they have the time and the loyal subjects to do it.
Regarding what they said, they said:

In granting my Warlord a boon so difficult - if not downright impossible otherwise - to replicate, capable of so much, you'll purchase a measure of true loyalty as well.

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They're clearly talking about the value of the Mask to them, not to us. They lack Mask making, lack the prerequisite Facelessness, so any Mask is nigh-impossible to replicate as such, and the capabilities of a basic facelessness Mask are basically the same- to them, over the long term- as those of the Artificer's Face (While still being dramatically superior to those of any other basic mask, in this context.).
Maybe they'll refuse, but they haven't actually said as much.

 

[Gabbie]

[X] Full Trade

 

[GenericName]

Zombies are actually pretty chill. They're just guys with a desire to make more zombies. They're not like vampires who are biologically assholes.

Anyway visc is extremely versatile and useful. Dorian is a very passionate man and he'll see a lot of use out of it. If that means powering up these guys, well I frankly don't care too much about what happens to a world we will never see again.

 

[Taut_Templar]

I will say, I knew the 'world-hopper' format encouraged a degree of amorality, but I wasn't expecting us to hit fill 10/10 "not my home, not my problem" on the literal first hop.

At the most generous reading, I suppose we can argue this place was already pretty badly off, and we're not making it that much worse ...

 

[Donald Darf]

I will say, I knew the 'world-hopper' format encouraged a degree of amorality, but I wasn't expecting us to hit full 10/10 "not my home, not my problem" on the literal first hop.

At the most generous reading, I suppose we can argue this place was already pretty badly off, and we're not making it that much worse ...

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Maybe we could go for a tragedy sort of thing, rise to the height of our power then things all start spiraling out of control thanks to our questionable actions
And it'll be cool to draw the hypothetical cinematic death scene as we're slain for our crimes and apathy to the suffering of those we deemed "Not worth our time"

 

[Tetra]

Crafting a Mask is extremely easy. Any facial covering can qualify, Given facelessness; you could use a scrap of bark from a tree for a Mask if need be. Making good masks is harder, but they have the time and the loyal subjects to do it.
Regarding what they said, they said:

They're clearly talking about the value of the Mask to them, not to us. They lack Mask making, lack the prerequisite Facelessness, so any Mask is nigh-impossible to replicate as such, and the capabilities of a basic facelessness Mask are basically the same- to them, over the long term- as those of the Artificer's Face (While still being dramatically superior to those of any other basic mask, in this context.).
Maybe they'll refuse, but they haven't actually said as much.

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I think your idea for an alternative trade makes sense
If we can't get feedback from Birdsie on what that might get us before we lock in the rest of the negotiation perhaps including a plan B would be preferable?

 

[JOEbob]

If we can't get feedback from Birdsie on what that might get us before we lock in the rest of the negotiation perhaps including a plan B would be preferable?

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Fair. My inclination for a backup would be Partial Trade, but it's not a preference or correlated to the write in, so:

[X] Write In: Craft a basic Facelessness-based Mask, not unlike the Artificer's Face, and trade that. The practical benefits to the zombies are the same, since they're in no hurry. Alternatively, a mask that contains facelessness and you charge up with Artificer's Face.
-[X] employ the various outlined tactics summarized Here as appropriate, with whichever of proposed designs or personally considered designs is best within the time limit.
-[X] another possible tactic to append is having the zombies produce full masks in the meantime; presumably applying Facelessness to a completed mask to make it supernatural takes minimal time.
-[X] If this isn't viable, go for whichever option would otherwise win but still use whichever of these tactics produce meaningful benefits without risk. For instance, copying Artificer's Face with Webweaver should be done in nearly all scenarios if not keeping the Face.

(This plan has been edited to reference the various outlined tactics on how to accomplish this. I support most of those tactics, though I'm not as gung-ho about specifically using zombie parts for masks- I'm not against it per se but it might take longer, and if so non-zombie materials may be better.)

 

[Donald Darf]

Maybe we could sabotage the undead a bit after the deal and before leaving, steal back or destroy the mask after getting Viscerality and run as fast as possible
Not like they can chase us across worlds, hopefully

(I suggest molotovs if we go with destroy, and ending our first stay in another world with burning some zombies to death sounds fun)

 

[JOEbob]

If we want to do that, I think our best shot is to either make our offered mask secretly fragile and limited use, or make a Mask later with a range-agnostic destroying what we've created effect; the Zombies will obviously take the Mask we offer them away in the meanwhile of granting Visceralism, and I don't think we're ready to 1v1 them or anything, so it's either trickery or esoterics.
(If we can't manage range-agnostic, then I guess it means we need to craft it before the street leaves. Might be possible, if it's that specialized and we offered a flimsy cloth mask)

 

[LaughsinLurking]

[X] Full Trade
sounds good, and it only takes like a week to make another one

 

[Donald Darf]

If we want to do that, I think our best shot is to either make our offered mask secretly fragile and limited use, or make a Mask later with a range-agnostic destroying what we've created effect; the Zombies will obviously take the Mask we offer them away in the meanwhile of granting Visceralism, and I don't think we're ready to 1v1 them or anything, so it's either trickery or esoterics.
(If we can't manage range-agnostic, then I guess it means we need to craft it before the street leaves. Might be possible, if it's that specialized and we offered a flimsy cloth mask)

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Wait, if the zombies will take the mask from us if we make the deal for Viscerality
What would stop them from just using Viscerality on us to convert us into a horrific mutant servant? That way, they can take everything we have, and use our skills

Let me just check if there is a good reason in the threadmark not to worry, might've personally missed something

 

[Donald Darf]

I have found nothing that confirms we'll be safe, we probably should've considered if the undead genocidal semi-hivemind would keep their word when they outnumber us

 

[DirtyBean]

No, you basically right. There's nothing I can think of that would stop the warlord from messing with us while they grant us the power unless it isn't them giving it to us personally for whatever reason.

 

[DirtyBean]

I believe we can trade for the bank safely but yeah, I wouldn't trust the warlord with our body any day of the week

 

[Rihaku]

Even with the artificer's face, they won't instantly conquer the world, and the undead are sapient as well so morally it's relative. Given its fairly low facetime and the practicalities of mask production and scaling, it'll likely be almost a decade before this devolves into mask-augmented superarmies that modern tech can't deal with. Dorian might even be able to return and stop them with his hyper-Viscerality. Imagine a Potential 200 final fixation Crimson Lost Viscerality Mask augmenting his own heavily honed Viscerality… he would basically be the Zerg.

[X] Full Trade

 

[Donald Darf]

Even with the artificer's face, they won't instantly conquer the world, and the undead are sapient as well so morally it's relative. Given its fairly low facetime and the practicalities of mask production and scaling, it'll likely be almost a decade before this devolves into mask-augmented superarmies that modern tech can't deal with. Dorian might even be able to return and stop them with his hyper-Viscerality. Imagine a Potential 200 final fixation Crimson Lost Viscerality Mask augmenting his own heavily honed Viscerality… he would basically be the Zerg.

[X] Full Trade

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That does not make trading with these guys any less morally horrific, but thats besides the point now
We hold almost no cards in this deal aside from our sneakiness, and the mask magic

 

[_brightwing]

[X] Full Trade sounds good,
also it helps us to get rid of the warcrimes mask
so our next mask could be better designed IE not explode when left alone for to long

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We have QM confirmation we can make masks at all due to the said warcrimes mask's reserve. We'd be stuck for worlds trying to reverse engineeer facelessness otherwise. You can't have all upsides that goes beyond without a price.

What did it give us in the very first world? Discount Ptv, Viscerality trade mask, Intangibilty/mobility..

 

[DirtyBean]

100%, sure we can figure out how to do crafting without the mask but it's something we would need to diligently focus on this whole time while also making our highest stat worthless. Besides, who knows how long it'll take us to recreate a version of facelessness. The QM says it'll take 30 days but there's zero guarantees it'll actually be that "quick".

 

[_brightwing]

30 days I believe. I am resigned, there is no way to swim against the tide of salt that came with the Masked build selection. I knew people would respec out of it the first chance possible. And here's it is.

 

[Donald Darf]

Still horrified that we possibly walked our character into a trap early, since this is the first world we may not die if the QM is feeling generous, but I think we'll at least be scarred for trusting something that lacks a heart