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They did, mainly as they discovered it was easier to just by slaves than steal them.
Edit: They are still raiding areas outside the Imperium, as those places can't protect themselves.
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The Lost Primarch Quest
- Thread starter Daemon Hunter
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They did, mainly as they discovered it was easier to just by slaves than steal them.
Edit: They are still raiding areas outside the Imperium, as those places can't protect themselves.
I assume Vulkan won't be happy about that
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Speaking of gods, I know it's probably spoilers and something Kesar needs to find out on his own but is Emps a god in denial or just a god-like being you get when you stich together the souls of Warp-knows-how-many-psykers of various power levels with a primitive Warp ritual?
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Emps is weird is the best way to describe it. He has some attributes of gods, but also lacks some attributes that are considered necessary for gods. He's best described as halfway between man and god.
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
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Or perhaps a "Pseudo-Deity"? As I understand it he's basically replicating some godly aspects artificially via his psychic powers and gaining some part of that status as a result but has never actually achieved apotheosis like the Twins have.
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That could work, also a God without Faith would be an apt description as well.
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
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- United States
That's why he was so gung-ho about the Imperial Truth and why Lorgar pissed him off so much. Whether or not it would prevent that outcome however is more questionable
Yeah, and his plan was to up and vanish into obscurity once he was done unfucking things, or at least into high end research that like maybe a few thousand people in the galaxy actually cared about.
He was clearly trying to avoid becoming a god-figure long term, but you know... shit happened.
He was clearly trying to avoid becoming a god-figure long term, but you know... shit happened.
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So could we see about linking the purity and silver runes together at some point? Because seems like they'd synergize pretty well together.
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
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- United States
Linking just has them apply both effects at the same time, and Silver's basically just "Budget Purity". If you mean crossing, I'm not sure if that'd work because unless I'm mistaken Silver is technically the most simple/weak version of Purity so they may not be capable of producing anything new
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Hold on, is this referring to Kesar's psyker 'specialty'? I think I recall it being mentioned that if a Primarch awakened their psyker power they wouldn't be like Magnus but have powers unique to them. In fact think this is canon considering IIRC Corvus had unique raven powers.
There are a lot of pags on this thread so haven't read everything so am wondering about Kesar's powers. Especially since we asked to have them awakened.
Year 36 - 40 Part 13 The Spiralling Situation
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When Kesar arrived in the Sol system, it almost felt normal, as if he wasn't about to walk into one of the most important meetings of his life. Looking over the system, he began to receive reports on the ships present in the system. Around Mars was a fleet of Death Guard ships, spiraling around the planet with Mechanicum vessels in their formation. Kesar frowned, unsure how to feel. Was that a good sign? Or perhaps the sign that things had gone wrong?
"Kesar," Oriacarius spoke up, a slight hint of worry in his voice. "The Space Wolf fleet is in orbit of Terra."
Kesar's lips pursed, his hands coming up to his face as he pondered the changed situation. "That changes little, although …" the Primarch thought for a moment, a few ideas coming to mind, "it may also be an opportunity."
When Kesar landed on Mars, he was immediately escorted by a large group of Mechanicum forces. No less than twenty identical vessels departed, each heading in a different direction. After a journey that lasted hours, the vessel halted, and the Daemonsbane was ushered into a long hallway. "The Fabricator-General apologies for the complexity," the servitor spoke in a surprisingly emotive voice. "But this facility must remain hidden."
Kesar didn't bother responding, he just began walking, the hallway spiraling slowly as he was brought deeper and deeper into the bowels of Mars. Throughout the walk, he saw thousands of sensors and traps, all of them seemingly scanning him to verify who he was. And after he walked for nearly an hour, he reached the end of the hallway and was faced with a fortress manned by servitors.
The gates opened for him, the servitors gesturing for him to enter. And so the Primarch did, and it was inside that he at long last found Kelbor-Hal and Mortarion, the two deep in animated conversation.
"So it's settled, I'll start rotating guardsmen that'd turn on us," Kesar heard Mortarion's voice, and the words certainly concerned him.
"No," Kelbor-Hal shook his head, his voice showing little of his true thoughts, monotone as it was. "It would make more turn against you. A better solution would be to claim the Lord Commander Militant ordered them into the Maelstrom."
"That's not acceptable," Kesar interrupted, causing Mortarion to glance at him, while Kelbor almost seemed to expect it.
"Then where would you get the bodies needed for your crusade?" Kelbor calmly asked. "The other options would be unacceptable to the Sigillite, strip your domain of manpower, or make the operation impossible."
"I will find a way," Kesar bluntly replied, "but I didn't ask you here to plot a rebellion!" His voice rose in volume, and this time Kelbor shifted in slight surprise. Either real or manufactured, Kesar wasn't sure what.
"What?" The Fabricator-General of Mars exclaimed. "You … invited multiple Primarchs, to Mars, to discuss plans with me, for what, in the hope that the Sigillite would change his mind?"
"I told you as much," the Primarch of the Death Guard grumbled, "Kesar, you're charitable, and in this case, that works against you."
"It's worked for me for four decades," Kesar glared at Mortarion, feeling slightly insulted. "Can we at least wait for our brothers before we make plans that involve them?" As he spoke, he looked over at Kelbor, who appeared slightly chastised.
"I apologize for that," the ruler of Mars stated, "I simply made assumptions about why you brought us here before receiving all the information."
"A part of the fault is on me," the Second Anathema admitted, "I should have been more clear in my invite."
"No," Mortarion interrupted, "I should have known you didn't have the spine for this."
The temperature in the room seemed to drop by several degrees, as Kesar leveled the frostiest glare he could at his brother. "That … was uncalled for."
Restraining himself from speaking further, several muscles on Kesar's neck and arm tensed. This was the first time someone had ever accused him of lacking conviction. And while he knew that wasn't the case, it seemed Mortarion had already decided upon his course of action. "No, it was needed." Surreptitiously, Kelbor edged out of the way between the two Primarchs, even as Mortarion continued to speak. "We're already in the opening stages of a civil war, and there is nothing that can be done to stop it."
Kesar exhaled, anger creeping into his voice. "There will only be a civil war if you have your way. I know Malcador, you don't, not as I do. He is pragmatic, he - "
"You don't know him either," Kelbor-Hal interrupted, his words amplified by his augments. "You know him as a steward, not the spymaster he really is. He's almost certainly started multiple purges in the Imperium by now."
"No, I absolutely do, I've worked with the assassins before." Kesar smoothly replied, only slightly worried by Mortarion's body language seeming to grow smug. "And his spies have helped ensure stability in my domain."
"Do you know he's tried to kill me thrice?" Kelbor asked.
"Do you know he killed several of my close friends?" Kelbor asked.
"Do you know he killed generals that voiced concerns about the Emperor's well-being?" Kelbor asked.
"So tell me, if you do actually know him, then why would you support him?"
"I did not know, but I am not surprised. Malcador has always taken care to ensure the stability of the Imperium above all else." Kesar was only somewhat perturbed by the questions, he knew he would have to investigate those claims. "That said, he has tried to kill you, why?"
"He couldn't control my thoughts and beliefs," the Fabricator-General of Mars replied. "Much like the dictators of many worlds, the Emperor and Sigillite are tyrants. And tyrants always demand more control, control that much of the Mechanicum was willing to give. Control that I was not willing to give."
Kesar suspected the actual reason was more complicated than that, but voicing that would destroy any credibility his arguments could have. "And so you want to replace them? And become a tyrant yourself?"
Kelbor-Hal gave a smug smile. "No, I propose we replace them with Vulkan."
"What?"
"It's a good idea," Mortarion reentered the conversation. "It turns it into an ideological war, the common man wouldn't care about the nature of a soul, but they would care about better living standards."
"You agree with this?" Kesar asked, shocked Mortarion had been convinced already.
"The other choice was Guilliman, and he is viewed as a tyrant himself by the common man. And considering Vulkan is known for his reforms, it would send a powerful message. One that the Imperium understands it rules humans. And so it must serve them as they serve it."
"I wasn't expecting this from you," Kesar glanced between the two, and he realized, he didn't know a way to sway them. It was as if they were the ones swaying him. "But Vulkan … could he do what needs to be done?"
"Do you mean if he could avoid becoming a figurehead?" Kelbor asked directly, "or if he could make the decision to purge entire worlds over memetic hazards."
Kesar opened his mouth to ask how much he knew before Mortarion interrupted him. "There wasn't a point to keep it a secret, he's on our side, hiding this would only drive us apart in a few decades."
"And you just told him? Do you know how illegal that is?"
"I am literally planning a civil war right now."
"Before we get too off-topic," Kelbor interrupted, "if you had kept this information from me, it would have driven a wedge between us. Why the Emperor didn't tell me confuses me, the idea of being a god's slave does not appeal to me."
"It's because just knowing of them gives them power," the Primarch's voice was calm, now back in familiar territory, Kesar found himself far more in control. "And so only a few may know of the Archdaemons."
"And the leader of the group that provides almost all war equipment in the Imperium wasn't informed?" Kelbor asked in surprise, "are you sure the Emperor didn't hide additional information from you?"
"He's given me his notes on the warp," Kesar waived off the question, "if he did hide that information, he wouldn't have shared them."
A metallic thrum seemed to fill the air, "I'm not so sure," the ruler of the Mechanicum said hesitantly said, "but I suppose that isn't relevant for now. It does bring me to a different topic, however, one that would be of interest to both of you. The place the Mechanicum would have in this new Imperium."
The more the conversation continued, the more anxious Kesar felt. It was like arguing with a brick wall, was this what it was like talking to him about daemons? Everything about this talk felt as if it was eroding his hesitation, Kelbor was his friend, it was why he had asked for this meeting. And now … now it felt as if he had been used this entire time. "I want to know something...was your friendship just a ploy to gain my trust, Kelbor?"
"Certainly not. Unlike so many others in the Imperium, I don't have to feign friendship to gain an ally. If nothing else, us having this candid discussion is a good indication of what it means to me. It's not easy to discuss with a friend such activities, but one that is considered near to my soul?" Kelbor leaned forward, and Kesar knew that it would take him less than a second to kill Kelbor where he stood if he so desired. "To such a friend, I am willing to share such activities."
From behind him, Kesar heard the sound of what might be his savior. Two sets of footsteps, both the size of Primarchs. Glancing behind him, he saw Horus and Perturabo walking side by side. The Lupercal appeared emotionally exhausted as if he had spent days thinking of what to do. By contrast, Perturabo seemed confident, as if he knew exactly what must be done.
[] Continue trying to convince Mortarion and Kelbor-Hal to not do this
[] Argue that a civil war would only benefit the Archdaemons and damn the souls of trillions
[] Drag Horus into the conversation and hope he doesn't agree and can convince them
[] Get Perturabo to explain how such a civil war would go, to try and convince them with facts
[] Maybe … maybe Kelbor and Mortarion have a point, ask Horus and Perturabo what they think themselves
[] Too many Primarchs aren't here, we need to get their thoughts on the matter. Invite a few of the Primarchs Kesar could trust to stay quiet on this for a discussion as soon as possible
[] Write-in
GM Note: As usual, 12 hour moratorium
"Kesar," Oriacarius spoke up, a slight hint of worry in his voice. "The Space Wolf fleet is in orbit of Terra."
Kesar's lips pursed, his hands coming up to his face as he pondered the changed situation. "That changes little, although …" the Primarch thought for a moment, a few ideas coming to mind, "it may also be an opportunity."
When Kesar landed on Mars, he was immediately escorted by a large group of Mechanicum forces. No less than twenty identical vessels departed, each heading in a different direction. After a journey that lasted hours, the vessel halted, and the Daemonsbane was ushered into a long hallway. "The Fabricator-General apologies for the complexity," the servitor spoke in a surprisingly emotive voice. "But this facility must remain hidden."
Kesar didn't bother responding, he just began walking, the hallway spiraling slowly as he was brought deeper and deeper into the bowels of Mars. Throughout the walk, he saw thousands of sensors and traps, all of them seemingly scanning him to verify who he was. And after he walked for nearly an hour, he reached the end of the hallway and was faced with a fortress manned by servitors.
The gates opened for him, the servitors gesturing for him to enter. And so the Primarch did, and it was inside that he at long last found Kelbor-Hal and Mortarion, the two deep in animated conversation.
"So it's settled, I'll start rotating guardsmen that'd turn on us," Kesar heard Mortarion's voice, and the words certainly concerned him.
"No," Kelbor-Hal shook his head, his voice showing little of his true thoughts, monotone as it was. "It would make more turn against you. A better solution would be to claim the Lord Commander Militant ordered them into the Maelstrom."
"That's not acceptable," Kesar interrupted, causing Mortarion to glance at him, while Kelbor almost seemed to expect it.
"Then where would you get the bodies needed for your crusade?" Kelbor calmly asked. "The other options would be unacceptable to the Sigillite, strip your domain of manpower, or make the operation impossible."
"I will find a way," Kesar bluntly replied, "but I didn't ask you here to plot a rebellion!" His voice rose in volume, and this time Kelbor shifted in slight surprise. Either real or manufactured, Kesar wasn't sure what.
"What?" The Fabricator-General of Mars exclaimed. "You … invited multiple Primarchs, to Mars, to discuss plans with me, for what, in the hope that the Sigillite would change his mind?"
"I told you as much," the Primarch of the Death Guard grumbled, "Kesar, you're charitable, and in this case, that works against you."
"It's worked for me for four decades," Kesar glared at Mortarion, feeling slightly insulted. "Can we at least wait for our brothers before we make plans that involve them?" As he spoke, he looked over at Kelbor, who appeared slightly chastised.
"I apologize for that," the ruler of Mars stated, "I simply made assumptions about why you brought us here before receiving all the information."
"A part of the fault is on me," the Second Anathema admitted, "I should have been more clear in my invite."
"No," Mortarion interrupted, "I should have known you didn't have the spine for this."
The temperature in the room seemed to drop by several degrees, as Kesar leveled the frostiest glare he could at his brother. "That … was uncalled for."
Restraining himself from speaking further, several muscles on Kesar's neck and arm tensed. This was the first time someone had ever accused him of lacking conviction. And while he knew that wasn't the case, it seemed Mortarion had already decided upon his course of action. "No, it was needed." Surreptitiously, Kelbor edged out of the way between the two Primarchs, even as Mortarion continued to speak. "We're already in the opening stages of a civil war, and there is nothing that can be done to stop it."
Kesar exhaled, anger creeping into his voice. "There will only be a civil war if you have your way. I know Malcador, you don't, not as I do. He is pragmatic, he - "
"You don't know him either," Kelbor-Hal interrupted, his words amplified by his augments. "You know him as a steward, not the spymaster he really is. He's almost certainly started multiple purges in the Imperium by now."
"No, I absolutely do, I've worked with the assassins before." Kesar smoothly replied, only slightly worried by Mortarion's body language seeming to grow smug. "And his spies have helped ensure stability in my domain."
"Do you know he's tried to kill me thrice?" Kelbor asked.
"Do you know he killed several of my close friends?" Kelbor asked.
"Do you know he killed generals that voiced concerns about the Emperor's well-being?" Kelbor asked.
"So tell me, if you do actually know him, then why would you support him?"
"I did not know, but I am not surprised. Malcador has always taken care to ensure the stability of the Imperium above all else." Kesar was only somewhat perturbed by the questions, he knew he would have to investigate those claims. "That said, he has tried to kill you, why?"
"He couldn't control my thoughts and beliefs," the Fabricator-General of Mars replied. "Much like the dictators of many worlds, the Emperor and Sigillite are tyrants. And tyrants always demand more control, control that much of the Mechanicum was willing to give. Control that I was not willing to give."
Kesar suspected the actual reason was more complicated than that, but voicing that would destroy any credibility his arguments could have. "And so you want to replace them? And become a tyrant yourself?"
Kelbor-Hal gave a smug smile. "No, I propose we replace them with Vulkan."
"What?"
"It's a good idea," Mortarion reentered the conversation. "It turns it into an ideological war, the common man wouldn't care about the nature of a soul, but they would care about better living standards."
"You agree with this?" Kesar asked, shocked Mortarion had been convinced already.
"The other choice was Guilliman, and he is viewed as a tyrant himself by the common man. And considering Vulkan is known for his reforms, it would send a powerful message. One that the Imperium understands it rules humans. And so it must serve them as they serve it."
"I wasn't expecting this from you," Kesar glanced between the two, and he realized, he didn't know a way to sway them. It was as if they were the ones swaying him. "But Vulkan … could he do what needs to be done?"
"Do you mean if he could avoid becoming a figurehead?" Kelbor asked directly, "or if he could make the decision to purge entire worlds over memetic hazards."
Kesar opened his mouth to ask how much he knew before Mortarion interrupted him. "There wasn't a point to keep it a secret, he's on our side, hiding this would only drive us apart in a few decades."
"And you just told him? Do you know how illegal that is?"
"I am literally planning a civil war right now."
"Before we get too off-topic," Kelbor interrupted, "if you had kept this information from me, it would have driven a wedge between us. Why the Emperor didn't tell me confuses me, the idea of being a god's slave does not appeal to me."
"It's because just knowing of them gives them power," the Primarch's voice was calm, now back in familiar territory, Kesar found himself far more in control. "And so only a few may know of the Archdaemons."
"And the leader of the group that provides almost all war equipment in the Imperium wasn't informed?" Kelbor asked in surprise, "are you sure the Emperor didn't hide additional information from you?"
"He's given me his notes on the warp," Kesar waived off the question, "if he did hide that information, he wouldn't have shared them."
A metallic thrum seemed to fill the air, "I'm not so sure," the ruler of the Mechanicum said hesitantly said, "but I suppose that isn't relevant for now. It does bring me to a different topic, however, one that would be of interest to both of you. The place the Mechanicum would have in this new Imperium."
The more the conversation continued, the more anxious Kesar felt. It was like arguing with a brick wall, was this what it was like talking to him about daemons? Everything about this talk felt as if it was eroding his hesitation, Kelbor was his friend, it was why he had asked for this meeting. And now … now it felt as if he had been used this entire time. "I want to know something...was your friendship just a ploy to gain my trust, Kelbor?"
"Certainly not. Unlike so many others in the Imperium, I don't have to feign friendship to gain an ally. If nothing else, us having this candid discussion is a good indication of what it means to me. It's not easy to discuss with a friend such activities, but one that is considered near to my soul?" Kelbor leaned forward, and Kesar knew that it would take him less than a second to kill Kelbor where he stood if he so desired. "To such a friend, I am willing to share such activities."
From behind him, Kesar heard the sound of what might be his savior. Two sets of footsteps, both the size of Primarchs. Glancing behind him, he saw Horus and Perturabo walking side by side. The Lupercal appeared emotionally exhausted as if he had spent days thinking of what to do. By contrast, Perturabo seemed confident, as if he knew exactly what must be done.
[] Continue trying to convince Mortarion and Kelbor-Hal to not do this
[] Argue that a civil war would only benefit the Archdaemons and damn the souls of trillions
[] Drag Horus into the conversation and hope he doesn't agree and can convince them
[] Get Perturabo to explain how such a civil war would go, to try and convince them with facts
[] Maybe … maybe Kelbor and Mortarion have a point, ask Horus and Perturabo what they think themselves
[] Too many Primarchs aren't here, we need to get their thoughts on the matter. Invite a few of the Primarchs Kesar could trust to stay quiet on this for a discussion as soon as possible
[] Write-in
GM Note: As usual, 12 hour moratorium
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Suggestion for write in: Kesar suggests asking for more of our brothers for insightful opinions on this matter.
@Daemon Hunter Or however you'd want to phrase this.
@Daemon Hunter Or however you'd want to phrase this.
What the fuck are we going to do ?
Yeah we've already got several Primarchs aboard the civil war train in addition to Kelbor, pretty much the third most powerful man in the Imperium, backing us. I don't doubt that the number of willing Primarchs willing to rebel will grow as more and more of Emps' and Malcador's laundry is slowly aired out.
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That'd likely be something along the lines of:
[] Too many Primarchs aren't here, we need to get their thoughts on the matter. Invite a few of the Primarchs Kesar could trust to stay quiet on this for a discussion as soon as possible
I will say if you did do this, Kelbor would suggest inviting some Imperial leaders as well.
My chief concern is, oddly enough, not more of Emps dirty laundering being aired...but other Primarchs.
At this point, confidence is low in Emps to the point of more shit coming out not being that surprising...but everyone else?
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we not reach point of no return yet, PONR is when war declared or blood is shed. we can still fix this.
edit: another idea is to get EVERYONE high ranking into the same room with blanks among everyone to dampen/negate psychic influence/usage and lay out the cards on the table and demands. plus kelbor has a point, even if things are to be a need to know basis, there should still be some people in the know group if they are suppose to manage everything else like all their war supplies.
just basically stay stuck in a room to talk/argue things out till either peace is settled or everyone on one side is dead.
edit: another idea is to get EVERYONE high ranking into the same room with blanks among everyone to dampen/negate psychic influence/usage and lay out the cards on the table and demands. plus kelbor has a point, even if things are to be a need to know basis, there should still be some people in the know group if they are suppose to manage everything else like all their war supplies.
just basically stay stuck in a room to talk/argue things out till either peace is settled or everyone on one side is dead.
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I will say that is a possibility for after the next update, mainly as Kesar could absolutely get such a meeting thanks to the current situation. It'd just take a few years to get them all in one place.
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well could always go with the ultimatum "we fight, humanity will die cause the orks will be left unchecked and will kill us all, don't believe me? ask horus what the orks are currently using to scare the frak out of him. so if we can avoid that that would be great don't you think?"
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That is a valid write-in for this.