Leaving aside the fact that we're a lot warpier than most people, and thus this sort of thing would have a bigger impact on us, it's just not good practice, of we're gonna pull lies like this it needs to be for a good damned reason, we can get similar results by detaching some astartes for anti-pirate duties and building the surveillance network.
Turning pirates into servitors after tricking them is not going to be 'warpy affecting' and it would be one of many tactics. Unless we hear WoG that this will have anything like an actual effect...I see no reason to create issues that aren't a factor in setting.
This is in fact an established issue in setting, we see the same problem with the emporer. Furthermore it's just stupid even if we ignore that aspect. We're a fucking primarch, we have better ways to do this. Instead of trying to make a write that will make future endeavors actively harder for us, we have established methods for dealing with this. The surveillance network, and detaching astartes. Why do you think we need to burn a lie on these scum suckers? Those are valuable resources, these aren't Jack Sparrow tier pirates, they're not even Pintel and Ragetti tier pirates.
Ok let's put it like this. These are not Sachmis, or Blackbeard, level operators. Us even deigning to address them directly is already giving them more importance and weight than they deserve or warrant. Secondly we're a primarch, sectors live and die on our word, even a scuff on our reputation is millions, if not billions we're going to loose later. Thirdly, what's the point? Do you think that they will flock to us? We'll be lucky to get a handful of the most foolish and desperate crews.
It's not worth it. We could release a similar statement asking people to recycle and do more good for the domain.
When it comes to making the offer a lie, that's something you can do. And the IA would also complain about that, although it'd be a different part of it that complains. The pirate hunters would be all for it, but it'd be some of the more logistically minded officers that'd have issues with it, as they'd worry about other generals taking inspiration from this.
Basically their fear is that following this generals will accept a surrender, then massacre the enemy combatants, leading to far less surrenders later on.
Basically their fear is that following this generals will accept a surrender, then massacre the enemy combatants, leading to far less surrenders later on.
Which is more than fair, the precedent setting would be a tricky issue, and not a 'kesar's word cant be trusted' and more 'monkeigh see, monkeigh do' with slippery slopes.
For reference, @argenten 's calculations were roughly correct (within 5% of what was expected in universe). It's just that due to a significant increase in embezzlement and other such ineffiecies (which arose due to multiple reasons), most of the income increase wound up being washed out as a result. So overall your economic situation is significantly different than what anyone expected.
Rapid expansion at nearly all levels leaving the established legislative infrastructure overwhelmed i guess? So much so fast leaves waste I guess.
I honestly am not sure beyond some write ins what could have been done and this might well be a good thing as it will essentially expose where in kesar's domain he was weak/had holes and can fill them now.
The rapid expansion at all levels, increased disatisfaction among IA lower officers due to various shake ups, and most importantly, an overstretched Imperial Army having to rely more and more on mercenaries and various subcontractors to take on some of their responsibilities. Basically the expansion openned the door to various other issues to be exacerbated.
So they were still present, but due to the smaller economy, the were not as 'problematic' but by expanding so rapidly and all encompassingly, we did not give the bad actors time to cover their tracks as they tried to take advantage?
Upkeep
Item
Tech Production
Materials
Population
Consumer Goods
Imperial Army
186
19
Astartes Legion
90
90
Naval Fleet
100
180
Embezzlement
540
1890
240
1400
Total
730
2346
259
1400
Raw Income
1460
4692
518
2800
So yeah, I am really hoping that we can deal with the embezzlement in some way soon...at the very least we can be sure our economy stands up despite the bad actors.
So they were still present, but due to the smaller economy, the were not as 'problematic' but by expanding so rapidly and all encompassingly, we did not give the bad actors time to cover their tracks as they tried to take advantage?
Ah, so it arguably would have been better to try to clean them up first beforehand...but we just don't have that *time* and so without seeing this...I can't say I'd have done anything different.
That being said, to the thread, I am sorry, I should have considered how much of an effect this would have on the downside and asking about embezzlement. I didn't, I took it for granted and this is the result.
On the one hand, the orbitals would have at least limited the smuggling and piracy issues...but that's only 2 of several major general problems as outlined below in the discord
Me: "
14: I get embezzlement is a fairy abstract term like consumer goods, but how many actionable/affectable to thread things are contributing to the embezzlement and can we get a rough percentage?
14a: Will the 2.2 trillion troops we recruited help with the "an overstretched Imperial Army having to rely more and more on mercenaries and various subcontractors to take on some of their responsibilities" aspect?"
Daemon: "You don't really know as trying to divide it into multiple categories is an extremely channelenging task. But roughly speaking, it's believed that around 25% is due to general incompetence, 25% due to rear echelon individuals skimming funds, 25% due to price gouging private companies and mercenaries, and 25% due to lower rank troops using it for a variety of reasons
14a. No, but it'll prevent it from getting worse which it would have without the extra troops"
So at the very least the mass recruitment didn't make it *worse* and this sheer amount is so shocking that IC Kesar is basically frenetically checking his math and looking to Roboute who is ALSO checking the math because this is sketch as fuck.
Also, the best three legions, outside of the hydra for the more backalley work, to contact about dealing with the pirates and such would be the White Scars, Night Lords, Raven Guard,
Well then I say we give all four legions a crack at the issue. I'm done with this nonsense. A certain minimum level of graft and embezzlement is one thing, that's just humanity, we have moved well past that.
Well then I say we give all four legions a crack at the issue. I'm done with this nonsense. A certain minimum level of graft and embezzlement is one thing, that's just humanity, we have moved well past that.
As a way of confirming how BS it is, there will be several officers going to terra to chew out Kesar for what they see as him basically withholding their pay for his 'extravagant building projects' only to be confronted with a kesar that has the paperwork to prove that he alotted not only their pay but budget increases in it to compensate for the 2.2 trillion he was hiring and in front of them has a small paperwork panic that he had missed something thanks to his filter being off...and roboute will likewise agree that there is something fishy in denmark, he expected there to be an increase to a degree.
But even the paperwork primach is going "What the actual fuck?!"
Its clearly Khorne. Why? Because no one exer expects him to be that subtle. Which is exactly why he can pull it off by being completely unsubtle about being the embezzler knowing Nurgle or Tzeentch will be blamed anyways.
Slannesh meanwhile is just erratic in its embezzling.
Okay, part two of three in the crow omake series of things. Special thanks to ChatGPT for helping me flesh things out a bit.
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Ducks in a Row
"Every great building once began as a building plan. That means sitting in that building plan on the table is a mighty structure not yet seen." - Israelmore Ayivor, Personal Musings.
One year after the Konor Convention…
The Imperium's shipbuilding facilities were strained to their limits, struggling to keep pace with the insatiable demand of the Great Crusade. Meeting even the bare minimum of production quotas had become a herculean task.
Every corner of the Imperium, from Forges to Hives, had already been allocated or claimed by other parties. These facilities worked tirelessly on their projects, leaving little room to spare. Even within the Realm of Ultramar, where resources, personnel, and industry were more abundant, ship production was limited.
Macragge itself, the beating heart of the Primarchs domain, had to divert its efforts to provide ship components for the Ultramarines Legion and the Planetary Defense Forces. Even Konor could not commit to anything, citing that they would need another generation to complete their current orders.
Gage soon realized that in this web of resource allocation, only figures of immense authority and influence—Primarchs, the Fabricator-General, or high-ranking officials on Terra—could hope to commandeer immediate time and resources without igniting the ire of entire sectors or segmentums.
Marius also recognized the futility of attempting such a feat, even within the Realm of Ultramar, where ship production also supported the needs of the Eternal Wardens and Iron Warriors in the turbulent Maelstrom region. If they were suddenly left with reports that their own forces would need to wait an additional decade to get reinforcements. The last thing Marius needed was two angry legions.
However, these immediate challenges paled compared to the monumental problems Marius faced. The only viable solution he could envision was to create new production facilities from the ground up, just as Tech-Bastion Shor had imagined with the symposium. While it sounded straightforward in theory, the reality of building shipyards and manufacturing centers was far from easy and involved navigating a series of increasingly dreadful obstacles.
First and foremost, Marius had to identify a suitable world to host the symposium. Once that was accomplished, he needed to dispatch construction crews to lay the essential groundwork and erect the production facilities, hab-blocks, research centers, component forges, and various other infrastructure components—all within an ambitious timeframe. This endeavor required recruiting builders, tech-priests, and a vast workforce, including clerks, mechanics, laymen, and experienced naval officers, either hired locally or sourced from other worlds, which often meant relocating entire populations to the designated world.
Secondly, the symposium would have to train various personnel, including designers, shipwrights, production teams, and engineers. The guidance of the Mechanicum elements would be crucial in this endeavor, but it also risked generating tension among those unfamiliar with or resentful of the Mechanicum's practices, especially if they had never worked on Crow schematics or designs before.
Assuming these preliminary challenges could be overcome, creating the orbital infrastructure necessary to establish a functional shipyard would be formidable. Components for this infrastructure might need to be imported into the system, incurring significant costs and time delays. Assembling the superstructure of the Crow-class vessels would require highly trained teams of voidborn, who would also need to be transported to the site. Alternatively, local crews could be hired and prepared for the daunting task.
Then, there was resource procurement. Securing a steady supply of raw materials and resources for ship construction was paramount. Negotiations with mining worlds, resource-rich planets, and potential trade agreements would be necessary to ensure an uninterrupted flow of essential components. Conducting business within the Realm of Ultramar didn't give Marius carte blanche to get anything he wanted for this project.
Transportation infrastructure was another pressing concern, both on the ground and in space, as getting the most efficient networks to move resources, components, and personnel to and from the design facilities or orbital shipyards was essential for the project's success. Whether this involved constructing roads, railways, or spaceports didn't matter. Because Gage knew that seamless logistics were key.
Energy generation also loomed large on his list of priorities. A reliable and abundant energy supply was crucial for operating shipyards and manufacturing facilities. This meant contemplating the construction of more plasma generators and parthenium refineries, which also meant consideration for the blasted environment. Gage understood the need to assess and mitigate the environmental impact of such large-scale industrial activities. Measures had to be taken ahead of time to address pollution control, waste management, and ecological restoration before some planetary governor started screaming bloody murder at him or mutants began breeding.
Security and defense were constant worries. Protecting the construction site from potential threats—be they internal or external—was a non-negotiable requirement. Shor warned Marius that Kelbor-Hal would have spies regardless of what he did. But that didn't mean that the First Master had to make it easier for other groups to sneak inside the symposium. The Vigil Opertii would be called to assist in this department.
Then, there were issues with paperwork. Another challenge Gage would soon face was navigating the increasingly inefficient and overburdened Imperial bureaucracy and legal requirements, followed by whatever came up with local bean counters and officials. Bureaucratic processes, permits, and licenses still had to be completed.
Another issue was another warning from Shor, that being quality control. Ensuring the quality and safety of the Crow-class vessels would ultimately demand rigorous supervision and review followed by extensive testing, both for components and the final construction.
The ships would need extensive reviewing, as would the production facilities and crucial infrastructure. Once operational, the shipyards and facilities would require regular maintenance, repairs, and upgrades to remain in optimal working condition, especially if the plan was to produce as many Crows as possible within the next operational decade.
Because once production got going, there would be no stopping. Gage knew, rightfully so, that labor relations posed their own set of challenges, if not at the start, then down the line. He knew managing labor relations and addressing potential disputes or labor-related issues was essential to maintaining a motivated and productive workforce. The Realm of Ultramar had decent labor laws and regulations, but most leaders wouldn't hesitate to call down the hammer if push came to shove. Thankfully, there hadn't been a labor-related riot among the Five Hundred Worlds in over a century.
Of course, the local lords, nobles, merchants, and bureaucrats would have the final say in matters related to coin and funding. Securing funding and managing the project budget weighed heavily on his mind. Cost estimation, financial planning, and resource allocation were demanding tasks that required careful consideration, especially once these leaders became increasingly agitated over imagined or real slights, not seeing a profit fast enough, or not finding the venture worthy of their attention.
But these men were necessary, especially for organizing this endeavor. Appointing capable leaders and overseers for various aspects of the project was vital. Gage more than understood the importance of effective project oversight and leadership to ensure coordination and success, and more importantly, he couldn't directly take the reins on this project as First Master.
He could only hope the people he put in charge could think and assess the merits and risks of whatever they did to make the symposium safely and effectively function. Risk management would be an ongoing concern regardless of who was in charge. They would need to identify risks, and implementing strategies to mitigate them was vital to safeguard the project's progress and objectives and their own hides if they weren't careful.
Because with all the moving pieces in play, the odds of something going wrong were becoming readily and increasingly significant. Marius would not be in direct command but would stay in the loop by whatever means. Communication and coordination were paramount here. Gage saw that once everyone had to work on the same page, including the Mechanicum elements, toward the same goals and milestones. Reducing ego and removing selfish desires was key.
With that all said, Marius Gage had turned a rather simple idea into an increasingly complicated and vast project. All of which was to build a new Sloop and a long-lasting attempt at ship design and production. The Crow was merely the nucleus for which something grand would, hopefully, be made in the generations to come.
Six months later…
It had been decided. Calth would be the site of the symposium. Calth possessed the necessary attributes for such a monumental undertaking. Its abundant population, well-established industry, strategic location, economic wealth, and ample space made it the ideal candidate to host this ambitious enterprise.
Calth had always held a special place among the Five Hundred Worlds, regarded as a crown jewel in the Imperium. Selecting it as the location for the symposium felt like a fitting choice, an opportunity to add a touch of grandeur to the ambitious project. This decision gained even more significance following a recent announcement from the Karnori Empire.
As victors in the convention, the Karnori had been granted a favor by Primarch Roboute Guilliman. Rather than seeking wealth or power (or perhaps more freedom), their request focused on securing the Right to first production for critical systems and components essential to the Crow-class vessel's development. The Karnori Empire could produce these components domestically, and this decision was driven, in part, by the desire to create jobs and bolster their exports. While the Primarch initially hesitated, he eventually agreed to their request, perhaps recognizing the opportunity to maximize the initial production output, especially since this arrangement was set for the next half-century.
Unfortunately, this put Marius and the symposium in an awkward position once word reached the other worlds. Interest in the project started gaining traction, and then the powers that be realized that the window of opportunity was fast closing. The spirit of competition was beginning to take hold, especially after a rumor that Kelbor-Hal and Tech-Bastion Shor had agreed to send technical support for the project.
But the First Master was still putting the cart before the grox. Technically, he still hadn't gotten approval from Calth. Not that any world could deny the Ultramarines, but once again, Marius knew better than to anger a planetary government, especially the one on Calth.
The current administration was run by a governess, Alica Stoutwall, who was also part of the Azure Concordance and was quite the spirited patriot to the Realm of Ultramar. It didn't take much for Marius to convince Stoutwall, but she did argue the initial site of the symposium caused issues.
"The Elysa Plains have too many heritage sites. It's also home to the Farmers and Merchants Union of Calth. Because the last thing you want is them complaining or filing injunctions. I have an alternative. The Kavam Badlands. It's not exactly scenic, and it's out of the way to the nearest spaceport, but there are active geothermal vents, plenty of caverns, and the Bluetear River runs through it as well."
Barely a month into arriving at Calth, Marius was already dealing with the bureaucracy, and ground hadn't even been broken. A look into what awaited the future administrators of the symposium. Sadly, this project was still in his hands until he could get everything in place.
Undeterred, Marius sent surveyors and engineers to scout where to begin building. They didn't have to wait long. The Kavam Badlands were still a relatively comfortable location, considering that Calth was an agri-world, but most refused to settle there because of how isolated most of the settlements tended to be. The only notable city was Sahalam.
Sahalam was more like a homestead settlement that grew into a city. It had only 2,000,000 souls and an industry more suited to producing completed goods, parts, and foodstuffs than growing anything in the badlands. A quiet place to raise a family, perhaps.
In another time and place, it would ultimately become one more grave for a maelstrom of murder. But in the here and now? Sahalam shall become the center for something new on Calth and have its part in the Crow's legacy. Until then, the citizens and government would wake up one day to see a veritable fleet of shuttles, trucks, and other heavy equipment moving through the city. They would, in some capacity, never leave. Within only six weeks, construction of a brand new spaceport commenced, followed by a Forge Temple in its industrial district and Ultramarine Outpost a few kilometers outside.
Their way of life was irreversibly changed, although perhaps for the better. Sahalam would become an important "organ," not just for the symposium but for future endeavors; if the people of Sahalam resented this, they never publicly stated such. Calth was on the cusp of becoming a great world. It stood to reason that they would have to do their part sooner or later.
Ground was finally broken a month after the project arrived at Sahalam. Within a few more months, Marius was bombarded by messages and requests from other planetary governments that now formally wished to participate in the development taking place on Calth, at least for a piece of the pie. Gage, however, opted to entice people instead by announcing the need for anyone with the merit, skill, and ambition to participate in the symposium.
His plan worked. Calth reported a 79% increase in outside arrivals. Thousands of specialists, tech priests, engineers, and so on arrived from the Five Hundred Worlds and nearby domains, including a few minor Rogue Traders who wished to invest in the endeavor. Considering the amount of money and resources now heading toward Calth, it made sense to Gage.
Officially, the Calth Naval Design and Production Symposium had come into existence, complete with a functioning shrine to the Machine God, a surface facility, and hab complexes to accommodate its initial population of almost 500,000 inhabitants. This number, however, was expected to multiply exponentially over the next decade, potentially reaching tens of millions as the project unfolded.
In reality, the symposium resembled a fledgling settlement amid development and construction. The bustling workforce, comprising laborers and servitors, significantly outnumbered those actively engaged in the design and construction phases. The Imperium had a reputation for executing colossal projects on an impressive scale and within tight schedules, but the day-to-day management of this sprawling endeavor was beyond Marius's direct control.
Marius had wisely begun to delegate key roles and responsibilities to individuals better suited to handle the intricacies of this project stage. His involvement gradually diminished as he passed the torch to a capable team. Filling every leadership position was no small feat, but ensuring the symposium's self-sufficiency was necessary.
For the role of head administrator, Marius had chosen Captain Navrick Bek, an Ultramarine whose expertise leaned more toward peacetime operations than the complexities of military strategy. Despite his relative inexperience in administration, Navrick possessed a sharp intellect and an aptitude for organizing civilian endeavors. However, his tendency to overlook schedules and overspend occasionally raised concerns, a fact not lost on Marius or Roboute Guilliman. Even the Ultramarines, it seemed, were not immune to budgetary challenges. Fortunately, Navrick lacked control over financial matters but held the authority to approve or deny purchases.
Now that Marius had effectively passed the baton, he awaited the first updates from the symposium's new leadership. While the project had exceeded his initial expectations, he hoped these developments would bring positive news. After all, an ambitious endeavor held more promise than mundane routines, and the symposium was poised to do something incredible, at least, eventually.
Two years later…
Fate had been kind to the symposium. At least, that was what Marius saw from the initial reports from Navrick. It had been nearly two-and-a-half years since the groundbreaking started on Calth, and progress had been good or acceptable. The most difficult part remained simply getting everything built and powered.
Captain Bek was a diligent worker and capable administrator. On top of the Mechanicum aid and enough funding to build an entire colony world, facilities and forges were already in the process of being finalized. A spaceport had been constructed for Sahalam, which resulted in the population and businesses within the once-sleepy city ballooning into almost 15,000,000 souls and counting.
The creation of a "shadow city" in the form of the symposium habitation zone had already seen some five million souls. People had taken to calling it Crowhelm for whatever reason. There were reports that everything needed to take care of the workers, scientists, etc., had been put in place but was growing rapidly. Most suspected that Crowhelm and Sahalam would fuse into a true metropolis by the end of the century.
However, some elements required more time.
For starters, the design labs were behind schedule. These were specialized laboratories and forge-temples equipped with advanced computational cogitators and design software for creating and refining ship blueprints. These had to be closely guarded, especially since the schematics for the Crow were held here.
All prototype workshops were also running into issues due to material costs. These were where the prototype ship components and subsystems would eventually be created. Finally, these workshops would mesh with the design labs and data archival sections.
The good news was that the simulation chambers were operational. This is where virtual environments can be created to test ship performance under various conditions, including combat scenarios and warp travel simulations. A nice "gift" from Kelbor-Hal.
Everything else was mostly running: Material Testing Facilities, Engine Development, Weapon Testing, Quality Control and Inspection, and the Training Halls, although no crews were slated for this part yet.
One section in particular caught Marius's attention: the Congregation Areas—spaces for congregation and collaboration among Tech-Priests, engineers, and researchers. Meetings and discussions are essential for sharing knowledge and advancing ship design—the actual symposium of this place.
The orbital manufacturing was still a decade from completion, but Navrick believed that might be for the best. "Everyone here is looking over the designs and ideas from the Konor Convention, including members of the Calth team from seven years ago, and they agree that improvements can be made to the Crow before we begin construction. The prototype from Konor also arrived six months ago in orbit of Calth, so further research and review was deemed necessary after it made its first warp jump."
In more good news, Navrick finally filled most of the symposium positions. When Marius had a moment to review, it was another one of those moments of him realizing just how involved the project had become. Navrick made significant progress in getting all his proverbial ducks in order.
Personnel Support Teams: Lieutenant Aricel Quintus
Medical and Healthcare Division
Chief Medical Officer: Dr. Marcellus Corvus
Medical Personnel: Nurse Isolde Vale
Martian Delegation
Martian Delegate: Magos Thelian Voss
Calth Government Liaison
Representative Officer: Helena Icarian
While progress remained slow, Marius was satisfied with the development so far. Roboute also seemed happy with Calth developing more unique industries and professions. The dream of a hundred thousand Crows moving across the galaxy remained only a pipe dream, but Gage saw that real progress was being made.
If the fates were willing and merciful, construction of the first shipyards for the exclusive purposes of building Crows would begin soon enough. The Karnori were already producing necessary components, so all that mattered was getting the first hundred crews ready.
This brought about the next problem for Gage…what sort of crew did you put into something like a Crow?
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@Daemon Hunter Another omake for this. One more to go and then I can move onto to the next thing.