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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Doomed Wombat said:
No they are selling us a constant supply of each, and given how powerful both are I'd say it very much compares considering that what they're asking for is a tiny investment of metal compared to our (3.9 billion metal isn't much vs 3 trillion in the bank and our income) and weapons primitive by both our standards and the Tau.

No idea didn't ask, will now.

In exchange we get magic weapons that can boost our elite to even greater heights and wildlife that can trash our modern formations...as well creatures capable of eating titans.

Did I mention eating titans.

Legio Helheim is a GOOOO.
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Where did you get constant supply from? I could get Alkahestry and Runes needing constant supply, but here we are buying weapons and a set number or breeding populations of beasts. Nothing about this says constant supply to me. What would happen if we theoretically broke the deal? Lower bonuses if we expand the units in question is all I can think of. It would be a better set up to just buy current stuff and then fold the cost for additional weapons in the equipped units expansion cost.

I am aware that we can afford it and that it is very useful but in perpetuity is a ****ing stupid idea for nearly anything much less for sending them material per year like this.

50 years would be fine, hell, 200 years would be, but forever is a long time.

I care not about eating Titans if we can not breed the beasts. It would just be a few weird Titan scale units, armies of weaker organisms are far more valuable.

And keep in mind the many and varied dangers of taking Avernus beasts offworld, and I am not talking about the Tyranids.
 
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Enerael said:
Where did you get constant supply from? I could get Alkahestry and Runes needing constant supply, but here we are buying weapons and a set number or breeding populations of beasts. Nothing about this says constant supply to me. What would happen if we theoretically broke the deal? Lower bonuses if we expand the units in question is all I can think of, but that could be easily folded into the cost of their expansion (if they were willing to continue business with us after we broke a deal, but theoretically).

I am aware that we can afford it and that it is very useful but in perpetuity is a ****ing stupid idea for nearly anything much less for sending them material per year like this.

50 years would be fine, hell, 200 years would be, but forever is a long time.

I care not about eating Titans if we can not breed the beasts. It would just be a few weird Titan scale units, armies of weaker organisms are far more valuable.

And keep in mind the many and varied dangers of taking Avernus beasts offworld, and I am not talking about the Tyranids.
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I get constant supply because that's what Durin said

2. Just to check just as we're selling stuff to the lizards in perpetuity they're selling stuff to us in perpetuity right?
2. yes, barring artifacts which are one off

In Discord right now, so if we loose weapons we get new ones, breeding population destroyed we get new ones, as well as expertise to help us utilise these new beasties.

If anything we're the ones screwing them, we're getting incredibly potent military assets forever until the deal gets called off, in exchange they're getting building materials and out of date weapons. Admitably they can turn those weapons into things that we're likely going to be buying back off them in few hundred years, but still.

I dunno 20 warlords is pretty big, to say nothing of the fact this is what they're selling now. Both factions will have stock to sell in the future, including breeding populations of both critters.

I am well aware of it, so too is Rotbart I doubt we wouldn't plan for this.
 
1,000 Cr *18= Basic Tau Weapons (50k Thrones, 5K material, 500 AM) per year
5,000 Cr *10= Advanced Tau Weapons (500k Thrones, 25K material, 10,000 AM, 1,000 EM) per year
25,000 Cr *3= Exotic Tau Weapons (3,000k Thrones, 125K material, 100,000 AM, 20,000 EM) per year

Credits: 18,000+50,000+75,000 = 143,000 Cr
Cost:
14.9 Mil Thrones
715k Material
409k Advanced Material
80k Exotic Material
5 Cr= Low Relic Weapons- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Veterans and have been enhanced by them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but boosts to cutting damage and toughness are the most common but more exotic effects are not unknown. Exotic effects can range from elemental enhancements or ranged attacks, deamon banishing or even spatial effects.
7 Cr= Low Relic Shields- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Veterans and have been enhanced by them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but boosts to toughness and resistance to warp effects are the most common but more exotic effects are not unknown.
60 Cr= Mid Relic Weapons- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Heroes and have been enhanced with them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but combinations of boosts to cutting damage and toughness are the most common but more exotic effects are not unknown.
100 Cr= Mid Relic Shields- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Heroes and have been enhanced by them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but combinations of boosts to toughness and resistance to warp effects are the most common but more exotic effects are not unknown.
1,200 Cr= High Relic Weapons- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Oldbloods and have been enhanced with them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but all have boosts to cutting damage and toughness, while many also have more exotic effects.
1,500 Cr=High Relic Shields- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Oldbloods and have been enhanced by them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but all have boosts to toughness and resistance to warp effects while many also have more exotic effects.
2,000 Cr (brought individually)= Low Artifact Weapons- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Elders and have been enhanced with them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but all have boosts to cutting damage and toughness, while most also have more exotic effects.
3,000 Cr (brought individually)= Low Artifact Shields- These weapons, made of an unknown material on par with Adamantium, were once wielded by Saurus Eldersand have been enhanced by them greatly. The exact enhancements vary but all have boosts to toughness and resistance to warp effects while most also have more exotic effects.
Multiply the prices below with each item that you are buy for the cost
*1- Heroes of Avernus-Provides a supply of this item to the heroes of Avernus.
*100- Primaris and Grandmaster Battle Psykers- Provides a supply of this item to Primaris and Grandmaster Battle Psykers.
*1,000- Master Battle Psykers- Provides a supply of this item to Master Battle Psykers.
*5,000- Elite Battle Psykers- Provides a supply of this item to Elite Battle Psykers.
*15,000- Veteran Battle Psykers- Provides a supply of this item to Veteran Battle Psykers.
*15- Last Hunters- Provides a supply of this item to the Last Hunters.
*25- Grandmaster Psyker and Witch Hunters- Provides a supply of this item to the Master Psyker and Witch Hunters.
*500- Master Psyker and Witch Hunters- Provides a supply of this item to the Master Psyker and Witch Hunters.
*200- Life Guard- Provides a supply of this item to the Life Guard.
*600- Helguard Regimental Champions- Provides a supply of this item to Helguard Regimental Champions.
*6,000- Helguard Battalion Champions- Provides a supply of this item to Helguard Battalion Champions.
*23,000- Helguard Company Champions- Provides a supply of this item to Helguard Company Champions.
1,000,000 Metal per year (*2860)

143,000 Credits
2.86 Billion Metal per year to Skinks
Flat back- Fast reptiles able to bend space when on the move making them hard targets, stable firing platform. 1,000 Credits for breeding population
Bloom bee- Bees capable of massively boosting a plants growth rate, either for farming or for battlefield preparation. Goes well with the more dangerous Avernite Flora. 20,000 Credits for breeding population
Bolehs spider- Highly friendly giant spiders ranging from the size of a knight tot he size of a warhound with the strength and toughness to match. Possess a devastating poison that can be injected or sprayed. 100 Credits per pack or 4,000 Credits for breeding population.
Sotek serpent- Magma Wyrm sized serpents with a range of daemonology powers, lightning speed and the second most deadly known poison. Makes up for its comparative fragility with its speed and powers. 2,000 Credits each (max 10)
Sluggish Sloth- A four ton creature that stores up its strength allowing for brief bursts of incredible speed and strength. 20 Credits each or 5,000 Credits for breeding population.
Dread Saurian- Battle Titan sized reptiles with enhancement biomancy allowing them to tear apart even Titans, and shrug off all but the most powerful of attacks. 5,000 Credits each (max 10)
Psyrodactyl- The bane of the Biologis and one of the most common predators of the Avernite skies. 15,000 Credits for breeding population.
Salamander- Lizards that act as crew served weapons in the Lizardman armies, able to slay foes at range with bursts of corrosive flame that can breach all but the strongest of armours. 2,000 Credits for breeding population.
Razordon- Lizards that act as crew served weapons in the Lizardman armies, able to slay foes at range with volleys of venomous, barbed spines that can spell doom for any lightly armored foe. 2,000 Credits for breeding population.
Stegadon- Incredibly tough reptiles the size of a Battle tank, often carries skink light artillery to war. 3,000 Credits for breeding population.
Carnosaur- Smaller version of the Dread Saurian, only the size of a carnifex. 100 Credits each (max 200)
Cold One- Horse sized riding beast. Reasonably fast and agile, tough for its size, even by Avernite standards, and utterly tireless. 1,000 Credits for breeding population

Flat Back - Breeding Population (1,000 Cr)
Bloom Bee - Breeding Population (20,000 Cr)
Bolehs Spider - Breeding Population (4,000 Cr)
Sotek Serpent - *10 (20,000 Cr)
Sluggish Sloth - Breeding Population (5,000 Cr)
Dread Saurian - *10 (50,000 Cr)
Psyrodactyl - Breeding Population (15,000 Cr)
Salamander - Breeding Population (2,000 Cr)
Razardon - Breeding Population (2,000 Cr)
Stegadon - Breeding Population (3,000 Cr)
Carnosaur - *100 (20,000 Cr)
Cold One - Breeding Population (1,000 Cr)

I'm just going to assume these are in aggregate game-changing useful.

(1+20+4+20+5+50+15+2+2+3+20+1)*1000=143k Credits

Anyway we just need to solve for the Saurus credit purchases.
TotallyNotEvil said:
What was the deal for warding that we cut with the Sirens again?

Will the Sirens proceed to, what, ward Saurian gear?
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Gawd, does this stack? Part of why the Penguins are so powerful is because they can use all Avernus psychic knowledge to do create a whole greater than the sum of their parts. (TBH even something a significantly less than the sum of their parts would still be pretty OP)
 
Shard said:
Gawd, does this stack? Part of why the Penguins are so powerful is because they can use all Avernus psychic knowledge to do create a whole greater than the sum of their parts. (TBH even something a significantly less than the sum of their parts would still be pretty OP)
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Shard said:
[X] Plan Shard Runeplan

Budget 139,000

Heroes (*1)
*Master Runes (Piercing, Damage, Channeling, Banishment)
*Master Runes (Toughness, Warding, Luck)

(2+1+1.5+1)*100*4+27*100 = 4900
4900*1 = 4,900 Credits

Last Hunters (*15)
*Master Runes (Piercing, Damage, Banishment)
*Master Runes (Warding)
*Apprentice Runes (Toughness)

(400*3+400+3) = 1603
1603*15 = 24,045

Grandmaster Psyker and Witch Hunters (*25)
Master Runes (Banishment)
Master Runes (Toughness, Warding)

100+700 = 800
800*25 = 20,000 Credits

Primaris and Grandmaster Battle Psykers (*100)
*Master Rune (Channeling)
*Journeyman Runes (Toughness, Warding)

300+70 = 370
370*100 = 37,000 Credits

Life Guard (*200)
Journeyman Runes (Piercing, Damage, Banishment)
Journeyman Runes (Toughness, Warding)

(10+20+10)*3+70 = 190
190*200 = 38,000

Master Battle Psyker and Witch Hunter (*500)
Journeyman Runes (Banishment)
Apprentice Runes (Warding, Toughness)

10+3+4 = 17
17*500 = 8,500

Helguard Regimental Champions (*600)
Apprentice Runes (Piercing, Damage)
Apprentice Runes (Toughness)

(2+1)*2+3 = 9
9*600 = 5,400

Master Battle Psykers (*1000)
*Apprentice Runes (Banishment)

1*1000 = 1,000 Credits

4,900+24,045+20,000+37,000+38,000+8,500+5,400+1,000 = 138,845
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Shard said:
Gawd, does this stack? Part of why the Penguins are so powerful is because they can use all Avernus psychic knowledge to do create a whole greater than the sum of their parts. (TBH even something a significantly less than the sum of their parts would still be pretty OP)
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TotallyNotEvil said:
What was the deal for warding that we cut with the Sirens again?

Will the Sirens proceed to, what, ward Saurian gear?
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+ Some of it can't stack. Saurus can't artifact out things like the Hunters Exitus Rifles.

Dunno if they can use all of avernus's knowledge, but I'm pretty sure being able to create choires in the billions of major psykers has something to do with it :D

Shard said:
Anyway we just need to solve for the Saurus credit purchases.
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Already given my preference for what to buy.
 
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Durin said:
yes it would
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Guys I suggest you to not buy anything from them, basically because Durin have just confirmed that we will get better prices and more things to buy once the Lizardmen achieve peace, since we are not in a hurry to get what they are selling and unless Lin gets a Nat 1 we won't lose anything of what they are offering.

Let's wait a couple of turns and try again
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Guys I suggest you to not buy anything from them, basically because Durin have just confirmed that we will get better prices and more things to buy once the Lizardmen achieve peace, since we are not in a hurry to get what they are selling and unless Lin gets a Nat 1 we won't lose anything of what they are offering.

Let's wait a couple of turns and try again
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it seems likely we'd be able to renegotiate the deal at that point.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
+ Some of it can't stack. Saurus can't artifact out things like the Hunters Exitus Rifles.

Dunno if they can use all of avernus's knowledge, but I'm pretty sure being able to create choires in the billions of major psykers has something to do with it :D
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And we did our own warding, didn't we? Is it overwritten by the runes, or improved by them?

Rotbart wears some Relic Advanced Terminator we bought from the Svartalvs way back when, with the black crystal breastplate underneath it, right?
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Guys I suggest you to not buy anything from them, basically because Durin have just confirmed that we will get better prices and more things to buy once the Lizardmen achieve peace, since we are not in a hurry to get what they are selling and unless Lin gets a Nat 1 we won't lose anything of what they are offering.

Let's wait a couple of turns and try again
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Don't think it would be wise that we would automatically suceed with making peace between both Lizardmen since we can in fact fail and if that happens and we don't trade it would have been pointless.
 
Red Bovine said:
Don't think it would be wise that we would automatically suceed with making peace between both Lizardmen since we can in fact fail and if that happens and we don't trade it would have been pointless.
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Yeah, this.
Doomed Wombat said:
Improved I think, and yes...or we still use the relic armour Granalf made for us.
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It's probably silly good by now. Relic Advanced Terminator + Best Human Wards + Best Siren Wards.

A Low Artifact gun to go with it and the BC Sword would be nice.
 
Red Bovine said:
Don't think it would be wise that we would automatically suceed with making peace between both Lizardmen since we can in fact fail and if that happens and we don't trade it would have been pointless.
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Yeah, this.
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We may not succeed with the whole peace thing, but even if we fail we won´t lose any of the things that they are offering now, and we don´t really need the things they are selling with all that urgently, we may lose two diplomatic actions if we don´t do the trade this turn but the potential gains of waiting are quite high and the risk is very low. And it will be a waste of points if we buy Low-level Artifact Equipment and a couple of turns afterward we unlock high Artifact equipment.

So I think we should wait unless we can renegotiate the deal if they make peace.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
We may not succeed with the whole peace thing, but even if we fail we won´t lose any of the things that they are offering now, and we don´t really need the things they are selling with all that urgently, we may lose two diplomatic actions if we don´t do the trade this turn but the potential gains of waiting are quite high and the risk is very low. And it will be a waste of points if we buy Low-level Artifact Equipment and a couple of turns afterward we unlock high Artifact equipment.

So I think we should wait unless we can renegotiate the deal if they make peace.
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Actually if we botch the peace talks enough we could be back to square one where we can only trade to one side or the other. Don't think it's a good idea to constantly back out of deals the moment people think we may be able to get a better one later or else we would never get anything out of any deals.
 
Red Bovine said:
Actually if we botch the peace talks enough we could be back to square one where we can only trade to one side or the other. Don't think it's a good idea to constantly back out of deals the moment people think we may be able to get a better one later or else we would never get anything out of any deals.
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Durin confirmed that only way of losing the already achieved deal is by rolling a nat 1 with Lin, and since we can actually reroll Crit Failures with Ridcully the possibility of losing the deal only has a 0.5% chance of that happening.
 
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godofsmallthings said:
There's a use for the giant spiders...

Military police units could use them. Or we could use them if Avernite units turn traitor, which does happen during incursions.
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I'm thinking we could pair them with our Knight units personally. Kinda like a partner bond thing with a war dog, just...a bit bigger. And more venomous. Most of the pilots aren't from Avernus originally I think so maybe that will help too.
 
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