- Location
- UK
Ah, fair enough. I was hoping he might be willing to say so OOC, just as part of the wider fluff for the galaxy and all that's been happening, even if we'd never actually cross paths with any of them.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
sabreFather
Dr Pepper is the flavour that I savour
- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
He prefers not to just so as to remove the temptation to utilize that information. Technically, if Medusa had not been destroyed before we unlocked Greater Divinations we would have divined Ferrus Manus despite knowing him to be canonically dead (the iron Hands had his severed head, after all). With Dorn at least we merely had a severed hand indicating his possible death, but the lack of a body does not prove lack of life. See Vulkan, Jaghatai Khan, Corvus Corax, Lemon Rush, Lion El'Johnson.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Presumably.
I doubt a type 2 could claim an unbound domain, at least not easily (likely special circumstances or having a truly massive following are require), but yes I'd imagine they can.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
@Durin
1. I know we take a lot of measures to prevent Avernus wildlife from escaping, but the same sure isn't true for invading armies. Is there an IC explanation for Blink Spiders not escaping off-planet after Garkill attacked, for example?
2. Is Greater Divination (That Grey Knight that went missing) viable according to Ridcully? (After we get back anyway)
3. Have you considered writing short notes in character sheets as to what a person looks like in the warp to Ridcully? I think it would be interesting (similar to your description of character stats) and occasionally helpful (such as when selecting new assistants).
1. I know we take a lot of measures to prevent Avernus wildlife from escaping, but the same sure isn't true for invading armies. Is there an IC explanation for Blink Spiders not escaping off-planet after Garkill attacked, for example?
2. Is Greater Divination (That Grey Knight that went missing) viable according to Ridcully? (After we get back anyway)
3. Have you considered writing short notes in character sheets as to what a person looks like in the warp to Ridcully? I think it would be interesting (similar to your description of character stats) and occasionally helpful (such as when selecting new assistants).
- Location
- UK
1. While I freely admit that I may be mistaken, IIRC the abilities of some species are actually tied to their physical presence on Avernus. The farther away you take them, the less potent those abilities become. That might mean that some species could have escaped, only to ultimately become far less threatening, and thus being incapable of overrunning the local biosphere as you might otherwise expect.
Last edited:
The Thirtieth Meeting of the High Council Part Six: Decisions are made
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
The Thirtieth Meeting of the High Council Part Six: Decisions are made
Your arguments proved to be enough to convince Admiral Freyr to support giving great discount all of your technology, which was enough to give you a clear majority in all of the votes. As such it was agreed that the Imperial Trust will focus more on attempting to encourage as much technology to be traded as possible then on attempting to get anything resembling a fair price, and will offer technology at greatly discounted prices as needed. Your argument that the Imperial Trust may fall and that it is your duty to ensure that your technology is not lost had the greatest influence on this debate.
Who would be sent to the meeting was the final topic of debate, and the most heated. With the decision to greatly discount your prices having been made this becomes more about who will be present and what impression that it leaves rather then what decisions will be made. As such the people pushing to send less representatives have gained ground, though not massively. It is universily agreed that Fabricator-General Scott, High Grandmaster Ridcully and Saint Lin should attend.
The first proposal is to send several representatives of each of the Trust' political factions, a group most likely including you and Chapter Master Julius from the progressives, Governor Mikaelsson and Lord-Marshal Hrothgar from the Conservatives and Governor-General Aelfric and Inquisitor Klovis-Ultan from the neutrals. This will allow a good deal of balanced participation from the High Council without sending to many attendees. Currently this proposal has the most support.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 1 and Tier 2 technologies.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 3 technologies.
-[X] Agree to fund an expansion of the AdMech military within a decade to gain Scott's support.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 4 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: The galaxy is becoming more and more dangerous as new threats arise. Apocalyptic threats that will affect the whole of the galaxy are coming. While getting more out of the trade would be beneficial to the Trust, it would be even more beneficial if we can ensure the larger polities of sane humans are armed as best as possible to counter these threats. The Trust simply does not yet have the capacity to act at the scale they do, and shield the greater galaxy (including the Trust) from the evils to come.
-[X] Argument 2: In light of those threats, an unfortunate possibility must be acknowledged - the Trust could well be destroyed. In that event, any technology we've held back will likely be lost to humanity forever.
-[X] Argument 3: Reciprocation of our generosity is likely. What we are offering is high level to begin with, so they will already be willing to pay highly for them. If they do not reciprocate, then they will appear stingy, especially if one of the other three polities reciprocates immediately as they would look shameful for not doing so.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 5 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: If Tier 4 has been discounted, point out that we currently only possess one technology at this level, and that while impressive it does not have the same strategic scale impact as the other technologies we have as it can only be produced in limited numbers due to high costs. Bartering hard over a single piece of technology that would have less impact than the tech on the prior tier would appear inconsistent. Should the data jewels provide additional technologies of this tier, the group going to the meeting can decide on whether or not to negotiate harder for them
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 3 technologies.
-[X] Agree to fund an expansion of the AdMech military within a decade to gain Scott's support.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 4 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: The galaxy is becoming more and more dangerous as new threats arise. Apocalyptic threats that will affect the whole of the galaxy are coming. While getting more out of the trade would be beneficial to the Trust, it would be even more beneficial if we can ensure the larger polities of sane humans are armed as best as possible to counter these threats. The Trust simply does not yet have the capacity to act at the scale they do, and shield the greater galaxy (including the Trust) from the evils to come.
-[X] Argument 2: In light of those threats, an unfortunate possibility must be acknowledged - the Trust could well be destroyed. In that event, any technology we've held back will likely be lost to humanity forever.
-[X] Argument 3: Reciprocation of our generosity is likely. What we are offering is high level to begin with, so they will already be willing to pay highly for them. If they do not reciprocate, then they will appear stingy, especially if one of the other three polities reciprocates immediately as they would look shameful for not doing so.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 5 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: If Tier 4 has been discounted, point out that we currently only possess one technology at this level, and that while impressive it does not have the same strategic scale impact as the other technologies we have as it can only be produced in limited numbers due to high costs. Bartering hard over a single piece of technology that would have less impact than the tech on the prior tier would appear inconsistent. Should the data jewels provide additional technologies of this tier, the group going to the meeting can decide on whether or not to negotiate harder for them
Your arguments proved to be enough to convince Admiral Freyr to support giving great discount all of your technology, which was enough to give you a clear majority in all of the votes. As such it was agreed that the Imperial Trust will focus more on attempting to encourage as much technology to be traded as possible then on attempting to get anything resembling a fair price, and will offer technology at greatly discounted prices as needed. Your argument that the Imperial Trust may fall and that it is your duty to ensure that your technology is not lost had the greatest influence on this debate.
Who would be sent to the meeting was the final topic of debate, and the most heated. With the decision to greatly discount your prices having been made this becomes more about who will be present and what impression that it leaves rather then what decisions will be made. As such the people pushing to send less representatives have gained ground, though not massively. It is universily agreed that Fabricator-General Scott, High Grandmaster Ridcully and Saint Lin should attend.
The first proposal is to send several representatives of each of the Trust' political factions, a group most likely including you and Chapter Master Julius from the progressives, Governor Mikaelsson and Lord-Marshal Hrothgar from the Conservatives and Governor-General Aelfric and Inquisitor Klovis-Ultan from the neutrals. This will allow a good deal of balanced participation from the High Council without sending to many attendees. Currently this proposal has the most support.
- Currently Governor Mikaelsson, Governor Ulric, King Zaren, Governor Garp, Lower Council Representative Sten, Governor-General Aelfric and First Artisan Granalf.
- Currently Fabricator-General Scott, Champion Surt, Admiral Freyr and Inquisitior Klovis-Ultan support this proposal.
- Chapter Master Julius and Lord-Marshal Hrothgar support this proposal. They will switch their support for the second proposal if it becomes clear that this one will fail.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
- Location
- Attempting to cast animate object on a black hole.
Honestly, I'm rather ambivalent about choosing between the first two as well.
- Location
- Back in Cali
Well option one looks pretty good. If people are worried about our penalty to relations we could send Surt in our place. I don't think it is a major issue as long as we don't take center stage at the meeting the penalty won't apply. At worst it should only apply to our relations and not the Trust as a whole.
- Location
- Leeds
We're trying to not send too many people so that the Trust isn't leaderless while we're gone right?
In that case we'd also not want to send all of our best anyway.
In that case we'd also not want to send all of our best anyway.
@Durin, can we put an argument for Lord-Inquisitor Varquez as a conservative representative? He has higher diplo than either Hrothgar of Beryl, experience working with xenos and with unusual deals in general, and I remember you saying before that pushing for him was a politically non-problematic idea.
Crafter of War
The Dorf
- Location
- Bend
Gee, I wonder what exactly this tells about the conservative faction.
- Location
- United States
[x] second proposal
Honestly we don't need too many people and we want to keep a good amount of our leadership safe and able to react.
As much as the conservatives are a useless waste of space we risk too much trade and political capital trying to pull the 3rd option, while the 1st option would just bog down the extra politics we have to go through.
Even so any political decisions made with the galaxies leadership will have more people supporting you either way with option 2.
Honestly we don't need too many people and we want to keep a good amount of our leadership safe and able to react.
As much as the conservatives are a useless waste of space we risk too much trade and political capital trying to pull the 3rd option, while the 1st option would just bog down the extra politics we have to go through.
Even so any political decisions made with the galaxies leadership will have more people supporting you either way with option 2.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
you can, it would have to be a pretty good one
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
single digit
- Location
- UK
It's worth noting that Lord-Marshal Hrothgar, who alongside Governor Mikaelsson is one of the leading conservatives on the High Council, actually supports the proposal where there wouldn't be any conservative representatives at all. Perhaps the conservatives wouldn't actually mind if we didn't include them in the talks, given that concerns about tech trading have already been dealt with?
- Location
- Leeds
Single digit + thousands of bodyguards I assume?
Well, he is better at diplomacy in general and is more experienced in unorthodox deals while still being a conservative. I am not sure what to say more, but I ask everyone else to think about it.
Last edited:
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Hrothgar wants the Trust to appear strong, which is why he supports the option which makes the Trust appears strong (particularly after our utterly decisive crushing of the fleet over Asgard). He's that kind of guy.
Julius would like to make a good impression to the Primarches. So he votes for option 3.
Ulric is ultra iffy because Niflheimers have like no opinions whatsoever.
Aelfric is iffy because he respects us, personally, and is more amenable to arguments as a result. And also because he's about to die of old age, therefore doesn't really want to handle this massive tech conference, unlike other members.
Mikkaelsson would really like to be in the tech conference and also have the conservatives be prepresented, so he prefers options 1, 2 and 3 in that order.
Sten likes the idea of sending more people, so he prefers option 1. This is so because he was selected to be just like this.
Garp is influenced by his Jotunheiming intergration and thinks sending more people is a better idea.
I believe Zaren, Scott, Surt, Freyr, Klovis and Granalf vote that way due to their not wanting to stir up Trust politics overmuch, though my grasp on their personality is not so good.
Probably not. Every polity has to get to this meeting via the Eldar. Chances are that means each polity is literally only bringing single digits of people. The only times an option for having lots of people be transported by the Eldar has appeared, its been them transporting large armies for their own use.
Separately, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the other polities, pretty progressive? Like the Mechanicus Empire is a bunch of extremely progressive Mechanicus types, working together and studying tech, especially industrial stuff in an effort to improve themselves and survive/thrive right? Imperium Secundus is a bunch of Ultramarines who threw out the limits on Legion size, and made deals with Xenos, as well as studying Xenos tech. Imperium Quartus has a bunch of Primarchs happily making allies with Xenos. They are all to at least some degree progressive, likely more-so than our conservatives at least right? Doesn't that mean it'd be beneficial and give a more likely positive interaction with them if we send mostly/solely progressives?
Last edited:
By the old Imperium standart even our conservatives are wildly progressive.
These two words mean little without reference and it is totally possible the a progressive member of the other polities is more conservative than our conservatives or that a conservative member of the other polities is more progressive than our progressives.
We lack the frame of reference.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
It also depends on what you mean by progressive in this case.
Still I'm hopeful if for no other reason then they've had 1000 more years at it then we have.
I mean, I understand the lack of reference, but both Imperium Secundus and Quartus have shown willingness to work with Xenos, much as it apparently galls the secundus to have to after millenia of war with the tau. But they are also even reverse engineering tau tech, which is just absurdly progressive. Possibly even by our admech standards, would have to check with scott on that. Quartus is allied with the Empire of Ashes, a xenos polity, which is also very progressive and something I don't think our conservatives would have been willing to do on their own. Callamus has been progressive by Admech standards by working together and sharing tech amongst themselves, encouraging innovation and studying xenos tech. So, all around it seems as though the only major sane human polities are the ones that are very progressive.
Should we bring that up, and suggest we present a progressive front? Because we really don't want to look bad to these guys. Alternatively, bringing conservatives might lead to a Primarch chewing them out about being stupid and the need to study new tech, work with xenos and the like... which may have long term benefits for us. Not really sure what we'd want to shoot for here. Still definitely interesting that only extremely progressive factions have survived long term, that may be a useful political tool that I don't think we've really used.
Should we bring that up, and suggest we present a progressive front? Because we really don't want to look bad to these guys. Alternatively, bringing conservatives might lead to a Primarch chewing them out about being stupid and the need to study new tech, work with xenos and the like... which may have long term benefits for us. Not really sure what we'd want to shoot for here. Still definitely interesting that only extremely progressive factions have survived long term, that may be a useful political tool that I don't think we've really used.