Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I'm low balling.
-
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- madison
don't confuse force concentration with overall force. The Helguard is useful not because of the total combat power, but because how concentrated its combat power is. That lets use fit more combat power in the same amount of transports, and bring it to bear on vital points more easily. Being able to casually walk through the enemies lines to reach objectives does not really come up in a white room slugging match.
It does when objectives include things like enemy artillery or command posts, losing which would drastically lower efficiency.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
@Durin
1. Why does Musphelhiem support a merge with Dragon's Nest?
2. Why now and not later?
3. What do we know about how the Dragon's Nest Mechanicus differs from ours?
I trust their perspective and they seem to be the sort to have good arguments, but am uncertain myself, and leaning towards putting it off until later.
1. Why does Musphelhiem support a merge with Dragon's Nest?
2. Why now and not later?
3. What do we know about how the Dragon's Nest Mechanicus differs from ours?
I trust their perspective and they seem to be the sort to have good arguments, but am uncertain myself, and leaning towards putting it off until later.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Nah, agumentic is correct. Helguard are worth nine or ten Chosen in a fight by skill bonus alone, but once you factor in much more powerful weaponry (further enhanced with Rune of Fire), power armor, advanced bionics, better vehicles, Avernite warbeasts and so on that number quickly skyrockets. That's the whole point of funnelling so much resources into them, because each Neutron Rifle in the hands of Helguard brings enough firepower to equal 9-10 Neutron rifles in the hands of the Chosen and is even more difficult to remove.
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- Location
- Back in Cali
How much later this is already going to take at least 150 years?
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
- Location
- Asia
Would the Dragon's nest be willing to do it in phases ?
We could do it one subsector a time. But that might give enemies time to prepare accordingly in the other sub sectors.
I guess it makes some sense to do it at once even though it would be more painful for us in terms of resources.
Either way we need to to massively expand our Arbites and Inquisition.
We could do it one subsector a time. But that might give enemies time to prepare accordingly in the other sub sectors.
I guess it makes some sense to do it at once even though it would be more painful for us in terms of resources.
Either way we need to to massively expand our Arbites and Inquisition.
- Location
- Leicester UK
I'm all for merging with the Nest, we are still an amusing bump in the road for the first level three Waaargh that rolls along and we need to be able to fight off a level three Waaargh if the Trust is to survive the End Times, trying to look small and hoping the Orks never come in real numbers doesn't cut it.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
By that I meant the bonuses Avernites get because, well, Avernus. Military training and such gets added on top of that. Its free, or at least not paid for when raising new armies.
Elites are good at garrisoning, better then regulars in fact. They are just utterly wasted there.
Lower, yes, and it is part of the reason why we have elites at all, but it is not enough.
There is a reason why modern militaries do not equip all of their soldiers with the best equipment, but with the most affordable and good enough.
But as I do not know enough numbers and math to prove this:
@Durin If you send a Helguard regiment (or any other number really) against an equivalent cost in Helltroopers, who wins?
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
After we have control of the former Valinor worlds so we are half Dragon's Nest's size rather than a third of their size, and after the two of us have conquered and colonized the local Ork domain so we can set up a government based on a three sector system.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Unsettled worlds don't really count.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
We do not need the Valinor worlds to reach DN population numbers. Also, Valinor is 40 LYs away, there are closer habitable planets.
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Nah, deathworlder bonus currently should be at +80 (though that should rise with Tarrascon being settled), which is significant but far from main source of skill bonus Helguard. The main one is Juvenat which we very much pay for (though obviously it's that big because they are living juvenat-extended lives on Avernus, but still it's not free), equipment+bionics alone gives +105 (and results in them having +81% armor and +300% HP compared to carapace armor, as well as far greater firepower), military tradition, training, officer and so on gives +177 combined as well. So yes, training and equipment are very important parts of what makes Helguard so good. Deathworlder bonus are most useful in ensuring that even our least elite forces are extremely scary.
No there aren't, Gehenna alone is 50% further than that at 60ly from core, and the assorted minor worlds are all 50+lys away.
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- Location
- Back in Cali
I also want to start moving into the Valinor worlds. Now that the colonies are set up with proper defenses we will hopefully get the option to move in. Like I posted before and how Durin has said this next round of colonization will go much faster due to the lessons learned from the first time.
As for taking the ork domain above us we are closer to it than the DN and even now would take decades to just beat was is there. Our best chance to deal with it is to start messing with the Waaaghs sent from it by trying to redirect them to either the neighboring chaos domain or at some of the regional powers. Durin said it would be possible for us to do it and easier if we learned from the Eldar.
If we try to wait for a three sector government we will be stuck for centuries at the least.
Valinor worlds are the closest habitable worlds all others are occupied and at least 50LYs away. Also DN has three times our pop and is still growing. Some of our world can continue to grow but the core worlds are starting to reach a limit. By expanding into the closest worlds we get the chance to increase our growth without having to spread too far too quickly.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Isn't +100 to rolls doubling of effectiveness? It was mentioned recently in the thread. If true, that +80 almost doubles their performance compared to non Avernites.
- Location
- UK
Does anyone have any suggestions for a redesigned government of the Imperial Trust?
Obviously the immediate proposal is that the Dragon's Nest will be some kind of sub-government within the Imperial Trust, but I don't think the model of a 'state within a state' is necessarily viable in the long term, unless we transition to a fully federal monarchy. Equally, suggestions that we try to conventionally assimilate the Dragon's Nest seem a bit flawed, as the Core Worlds would be hugely outnumbered on the High Council.
So, in order to overcome these problems it seems we ought to design a new system to replace the rather loose confederal model of the Imperial Trust with something better suited to a larger polity, and which is more scaleable in the event of further expansion.
Obviously the immediate proposal is that the Dragon's Nest will be some kind of sub-government within the Imperial Trust, but I don't think the model of a 'state within a state' is necessarily viable in the long term, unless we transition to a fully federal monarchy. Equally, suggestions that we try to conventionally assimilate the Dragon's Nest seem a bit flawed, as the Core Worlds would be hugely outnumbered on the High Council.
So, in order to overcome these problems it seems we ought to design a new system to replace the rather loose confederal model of the Imperial Trust with something better suited to a larger polity, and which is more scaleable in the event of further expansion.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I dunno I'd argue the Deathworlder bonus is the reason our Juvnat bonus is so high is because of Avernus.
We're giving them juv nat because they've survived a long time on avernus.
We'd not have as many Juvnat veterans without it.
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
It is indeed, unless Durin retconned it.
I quite specifically remember it. A +80 is Big News. Hell, a +5 is big news.
- Location
- Back in Cali
We will not be out numbered on the High Council the number of high council members only increases to 18 we are at 14 right now. Also the change to government will be worked out later and over the 150 years this would take.
- Location
- UK
We would be if each planet of the Dragon's Nest was counted equally to those of the Imperial Trust, as it has far more developed worlds than we do. My point was that those who oppose the 'state within a state' model, which would only add four seats to the High Council, haven't accounted for the fact that assimilating the Dragon's Nest normally would see our worlds lose a dramatic amount of influence.
Given that both options have big disadvantages, as does refusing a merger with the Dragon's Nest and remaining small and vulnerable, it seems to me that the best way forward would be too design a new political system.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Under the current rules. Which the DN is unlikely to agree to.
I like the idea of tying a worlds influence on Trust government to the size of their tithe. This strongly encourage development, and prevents any agri world from having the same "amount of votes" as a hive world, or Muspelheim.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Oh, +80 is still a huge deal and it's that extra oomph that brings Helguard from exceptional elites to nearly unequalled ones, however my point was training and equipment are just as - if not more - important as the bonus we gain from living on Avernus when it comes to Helguard.
Yeah, I said as much:
But as I said above that - unlike what Enerael stated - army-wide juvenat is large resource investment, and even off-Avernus it would still give decent, if nowhere near as ludicrous bonus (also remember that due to recent losses and major expansions Helguard lost a noticeable chunk of that bonus as well, though the +13 we got from lessions learned should help to mitigate that).
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
I was concerned that the Helguard could, in fact, kill their cost in Midgardian Guard due to just how stupidly skilled Avernites are.
I find it very unlikely that they could do that, but its the Helguard. Better safe then sorry, and compare, say, Helguard to Helltroopers instead.
I find it very unlikely that they could do that, but its the Helguard. Better safe then sorry, and compare, say, Helguard to Helltroopers instead.
