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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Australia
@Durin, I have a question about religious gods. How strongly are a god's beliefs defined by its worshippers' beliefs? Is it (Worshipper beliefs=god's personality) or (Worshipper beliefs+god's experiences, knowledge, and existence as a god=god's personality)?
I'm imagining right now that it's like super identical twins. Same name, same brain, same body, same upbringing, etc. Then one Twin A becomes ten times smarter, talks to people Twin B doesn't talk to, and does things Twin B can't and doesn't do. That twin would be different than Twin B, even if Twin A is still taught the same stuff as Twin B, talks to the same people, and does the same things. All that stuff still influences Twin A into becoming closer to Twin B, but the other factors also have influence.
I'm imagining right now that it's like super identical twins. Same name, same brain, same body, same upbringing, etc. Then one Twin A becomes ten times smarter, talks to people Twin B doesn't talk to, and does things Twin B can't and doesn't do. That twin would be different than Twin B, even if Twin A is still taught the same stuff as Twin B, talks to the same people, and does the same things. All that stuff still influences Twin A into becoming closer to Twin B, but the other factors also have influence.
- Location
- England
Doesn't the warp become becalmed outside of the galaxy? Using a warp drive to cross the void might not be workable for that reason.
… I must ask, do you realise how horrifying that statement is?
Assuming fundamental physics is even broadly similar in embers the only way the Milky Way could not have any satellite galaxies is if someone, or something, removed them.
Or just never built any when they/it constructed the Milky Way.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The Necrons have weapons they are unwilling to use in the Milky Way Galaxy...
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
I do and have been waiting for somene to ask. The war in heaven was terrible, and some weapons became forbidden in it for good reason.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
Explain. Which laws of physics would necessitate satellite galaxies?
sargentorion
Hunter of bunnycats
- Location
- West Sussex, England
One being gravity presumably.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
The second option
- Location
- Brazil, Minas gerais
Not so sure if this would be a good idea but could the seer watch these other galaxy dying? Even if is a old as it can get, but considering that was also as remarkable and lasting as it can get too. I would give this a chance.
The problem is for what reason we could do this? Because if was to see the best of the necro tech we could just ask the eldar if that become relevant. Unless they could not see a important secret weapon used by the necro or need help to see some of their own tech. But again these are the eldar. I would expect them to see what they need to see and be better than our seer (in this case).
The problem is for what reason we could do this? Because if was to see the best of the necro tech we could just ask the eldar if that become relevant. Unless they could not see a important secret weapon used by the necro or need help to see some of their own tech. But again these are the eldar. I would expect them to see what they need to see and be better than our seer (in this case).
Proposal to change the language of instruction in the Adaptus Astra Telepathica
- Location
- England
Timing for this Omake is a year or so after Ridcully returns home, after the current war. Hope none of the appearing characters die!
Proposal to change the language of instruction in the Adaptus Astra Telepathica
Fredrick looked down at the scrawled note. "Munstrum, you're going to have to explain this to the high council." The seer, sitting opposite, crossed his legs and scowled. "Using a Xeno language to train psykers will not go down well with, well, the inquisition, the mechanicus, and the conservatives. Have you at least spoken to Markus about it?"
"I have. The high council will get over it without sanctions on the telepathica or Averneus. They will be unhappy that I took the issue out of their hands, but what do I care if the oh so wise and mighty Bertil Mikkaelson gets his knickers in a twist. They're perpetually in a twist anyway!" The governor stood shocked in disbelief for a moment before remembering who he was talking to. He'd missed the brusqueness of the Archchancellor, even if he wouldn't like to admit it. "Munstrum, you know as well as I do that keeping the other worlds on side is important. Getting personally involved with galactic powers doesn't change the fact we rely on the trust worlds, and despite you now considering the high council the Kiddie Table they are at the very least entitled to an explanation as to why you intend to start teaching in bloody eldar!"
......
High councillors.
Upon first coming into contact with the Eldar Seer known as Eldrad Uthuan, I decided that the time had come for me to learn the language of the Aeldari. With the aid of a few lovely members of the Ordos Diologus I was able to pick up the language to a certain extent and I began to see some potential in it. It's extremely difficult to explain properly to non pskyers, but the language seemed closer to the reality of the warp. It described concepts we absolutely haven't got in any known dialect of gothic. I started using Eldar loan words in explanations, and soon they became widespread across the university. We use Aeldari terms already you see, as a decent chunk of our vocabulary became unusable following the rise of the abomination, and as soon as I found good replacement words I slotted them in. Seamus remembers me telling him this, don't you.
At this point however, my understanding of the language was very poor, comparatively to even an eldar child. I could make myself understood in it, and translate the first couple of levels of meaning, but the higher inferences, which it turns out are very useful for explaining psychic concepts, were beyond me. However, given my recent, extremely successful, but rather unpleasant stay in the black library I have become intimately familiar with the Eldar tongue, although calling a language that is 37% psychic a tongue is stretching it.
This experience has lead me to the conclusion that starting immediately all Adaptus Astra telepathica outposts should begin rolling out the Eldar language to every psyker, with the goal being to begin teaching in it within 25 years. Studying the language, I believe, and a number of the Eldar classics written in it, will in itself have a positive effect on the students, the experiences and tales of a psyker race having developed over time to be optimum for training psykers. This compares to our own language, and tales, which daemonize the witch. Reading the Eldar classics would have helped me greatly as a young man, would have helped me understand what I was better, and would have helped me understand the dangers of the warp better too. The daemons of the warp have a slippery grip when you speak to them in Aeldari.
Not only does the language itself have a positive psychological effect. It also has great potential for research. Multiple times, it has a hundred words for what gothic has one, and a number of our research teams are already learning it as a side project. They are already seeing some quite significant improvements in their progress, especially when dealing with runes.
Teaching in Eldar, also, I think would allow for faster understanding from students, so we could teach them more before their trials. Experiments have shown that if teaching the language commences at an early age, young major psykers pick it up incredibly quickly. Admittedly, the net benefit to minor psykers is much lower, but for major psykers learning in Eldar leads to a not insignificant increase in learning rate and therefore, pass rate.
In conclusion, the widespread adoption of the Craftworld Aeldari language, preferably the academic Uthwe dialect, would see very significant net benefits, with higher quality and faster research, better tuition, more resistance to the terrors of the warp and correspondingly higher pass rates. These effects are due not only to a greater vocabulary, also the structure of the language makes more sense in the warp. If it were possible I'd have every child learn Aeldari from a young age, but I understand that this is an undertaking beyond reasonable possibility. Teaching a million children Eldar just for the benefit of the one major psyker is wasteful, even by my standards.
Yours SincerelyXeno Archchancellor Munstrum Ridcully.
Proposal to change the language of instruction in the Adaptus Astra Telepathica
Fredrick looked down at the scrawled note. "Munstrum, you're going to have to explain this to the high council." The seer, sitting opposite, crossed his legs and scowled. "Using a Xeno language to train psykers will not go down well with, well, the inquisition, the mechanicus, and the conservatives. Have you at least spoken to Markus about it?"
"I have. The high council will get over it without sanctions on the telepathica or Averneus. They will be unhappy that I took the issue out of their hands, but what do I care if the oh so wise and mighty Bertil Mikkaelson gets his knickers in a twist. They're perpetually in a twist anyway!" The governor stood shocked in disbelief for a moment before remembering who he was talking to. He'd missed the brusqueness of the Archchancellor, even if he wouldn't like to admit it. "Munstrum, you know as well as I do that keeping the other worlds on side is important. Getting personally involved with galactic powers doesn't change the fact we rely on the trust worlds, and despite you now considering the high council the Kiddie Table they are at the very least entitled to an explanation as to why you intend to start teaching in bloody eldar!"
......
High councillors.
Upon first coming into contact with the Eldar Seer known as Eldrad Uthuan, I decided that the time had come for me to learn the language of the Aeldari. With the aid of a few lovely members of the Ordos Diologus I was able to pick up the language to a certain extent and I began to see some potential in it. It's extremely difficult to explain properly to non pskyers, but the language seemed closer to the reality of the warp. It described concepts we absolutely haven't got in any known dialect of gothic. I started using Eldar loan words in explanations, and soon they became widespread across the university. We use Aeldari terms already you see, as a decent chunk of our vocabulary became unusable following the rise of the abomination, and as soon as I found good replacement words I slotted them in. Seamus remembers me telling him this, don't you.
At this point however, my understanding of the language was very poor, comparatively to even an eldar child. I could make myself understood in it, and translate the first couple of levels of meaning, but the higher inferences, which it turns out are very useful for explaining psychic concepts, were beyond me. However, given my recent, extremely successful, but rather unpleasant stay in the black library I have become intimately familiar with the Eldar tongue, although calling a language that is 37% psychic a tongue is stretching it.
This experience has lead me to the conclusion that starting immediately all Adaptus Astra telepathica outposts should begin rolling out the Eldar language to every psyker, with the goal being to begin teaching in it within 25 years. Studying the language, I believe, and a number of the Eldar classics written in it, will in itself have a positive effect on the students, the experiences and tales of a psyker race having developed over time to be optimum for training psykers. This compares to our own language, and tales, which daemonize the witch. Reading the Eldar classics would have helped me greatly as a young man, would have helped me understand what I was better, and would have helped me understand the dangers of the warp better too. The daemons of the warp have a slippery grip when you speak to them in Aeldari.
Not only does the language itself have a positive psychological effect. It also has great potential for research. Multiple times, it has a hundred words for what gothic has one, and a number of our research teams are already learning it as a side project. They are already seeing some quite significant improvements in their progress, especially when dealing with runes.
Teaching in Eldar, also, I think would allow for faster understanding from students, so we could teach them more before their trials. Experiments have shown that if teaching the language commences at an early age, young major psykers pick it up incredibly quickly. Admittedly, the net benefit to minor psykers is much lower, but for major psykers learning in Eldar leads to a not insignificant increase in learning rate and therefore, pass rate.
In conclusion, the widespread adoption of the Craftworld Aeldari language, preferably the academic Uthwe dialect, would see very significant net benefits, with higher quality and faster research, better tuition, more resistance to the terrors of the warp and correspondingly higher pass rates. These effects are due not only to a greater vocabulary, also the structure of the language makes more sense in the warp. If it were possible I'd have every child learn Aeldari from a young age, but I understand that this is an undertaking beyond reasonable possibility. Teaching a million children Eldar just for the benefit of the one major psyker is wasteful, even by my standards.
Yours Sincerely
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Speaking of Xenos advancements
@Durin I have a question regarding Lyn's theology. How does he justify worshiping the Emperor (who can't currently do anything about human souls) over say Ynnead who might be able to preserve them?
Just to be clear I'm not proposing we worship Eldar gods I know what is unfeasible for a whole host of practical reasons but I am curious about Lyn's reasoning in potentially damning souls of faithful humans into daemon food where they might otherwise have been preserved.
@Durin I have a question regarding Lyn's theology. How does he justify worshiping the Emperor (who can't currently do anything about human souls) over say Ynnead who might be able to preserve them?
Just to be clear I'm not proposing we worship Eldar gods I know what is unfeasible for a whole host of practical reasons but I am curious about Lyn's reasoning in potentially damning souls of faithful humans into daemon food where they might otherwise have been preserved.
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Ynnead is an Eldar god, made from and for the Eldar. Like the Eldar, Ynnead will put the interests of the Eldar before anyone else. Even if humans worshiped Ynnead, that would not change.
The Emperor on the other hand is going to become a god of and for Humanity. He's also regarded as the Anathema by Chaos, which implies that as a god he might be particularly effective against Chaos, and I suspect that when he ascends he'll be a particularly potent god. And of course that's more likely to be the case if the Emperor is worshiped now, as the power from that worship will empower him and give him a supply of power to expend once he is reborn into godhood.
We can't be certain that souls currently worshiping the Emperor go to him on death or not at this point, but even if they don't the empowerment of the Emperor will better ensure the safety of all the souls that he'll be able to claim once his apotheosis is complete. The souls of those humans who died in the five to fifteen thousand years after his death might have get eaten by daemons, but in the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, etc. of years to come? Those souls will be protected, and that's more likely if the Emperor is empowered better from the start. Furthermore, if he is actually able to start beating Chaos once he's actually playing at their level of power, then all the souls who might otherwise fall to Chaos will be protected.
Overall, it seems like a long game thing to me.
Reasonable but I want to be sure that's Lyn's position and that he is firm in it because I want to advocate for finding out where souls go and the worst case scenario I can imagine for that is Lyn having a crises of faith over the trillions of souls devoured by demons. Keep in mind this is a genuinely kind man who would rather be working with orphans than being the head priest of the Imperial Trust. Would he be willing to sacrifice the souls of those same orphans for the sake of an abstract greater good? Would he be able to lie to them by omission? These are rather important questions.
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- Location
- England
Yeah, tbh, we haven't ever seriously considered the possibility that the emperor might not be acting in our/humanities interest. This is a god like being we are dealing with and we all know how capricious god's can be.
Perhaps checking out if following the emperor is really a good idea might be worthwhile. If throwing in with the eldar gives us a better chance of something closer to a good end, then we should consider throwing in with them and abandoning golden boy.
Also, could Lin/the Emperor be a deciever puppet? Right in our midst? Very in character for the deciever.
Perhaps checking out if following the emperor is really a good idea might be worthwhile. If throwing in with the eldar gives us a better chance of something closer to a good end, then we should consider throwing in with them and abandoning golden boy.
Also, could Lin/the Emperor be a deciever puppet? Right in our midst? Very in character for the deciever.
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A don't think any of our characters IC have the capacity to ask that question except maybe Ridiculy. It would require a degree of detachment from centuries of indoctrination that is basically inhuman.
- Location
- England
Jacob too. His adventures with god's have been almost as profound and he's one of the very few people in the imperial trust who isn't xenophobic.
Then again, he has an arbitrator for a mum.
Personally I wonder if the Emperor set up something to deal with Human souls without him, after all, he did not want to become the god of mankind before the golden throne. And I doubt that he would be okay with all of humanity's souls getting eaten by daemons.
So he would need to set something up that takes care of them without him being directly involved.
So he would need to set something up that takes care of them without him being directly involved.
I have no doubt he would have wanted to but well... the current state of the galaxy is manifest proof that the Emperor does not always gets what he wants.
It's Lin, by the way.
It wouldn't be a switch. Ridcully would basically become part of the Emperor's Pantheon, so would be worshiped in addition to the Emperor, not instead of him.
- Location
- Brazil, Minas gerais
Hum, weird question here. If the one of the chaos God can act before his is born. What would need to be done in order to do the same for the emperor? I mean this probably would so dificult that a lot of ridiculous stuff would need to happen things that is pretty much impossible. Like purity a daemon world, making it attuned to the emperor and sacrificing untold number of people.
I was wondering mostly because like I said one of the chaos God is yet to be 'born'.
I was wondering mostly because like I said one of the chaos God is yet to be 'born'.
- Location
- Spain
The thing is that Tzneech may not have been born yet, but if that is the case he probably sent himself back in time to make sure he is born...
- Location
- madison
ok, so I did some digging, and after a few missteps based on getting ship squadron sizes wrong, I think I've worked out the initial torpedo volley size from our one shot launches and it's pretty nasty. Also, we might want to look into leaning into grand cruisers, they seem to be in the sweet spot of big enough to mount lots of launches, but small enough you bring them in big numbers. they are providing most of our battleship sized torpedos by a fair amount.
looking at the navel sheet, I think that most of the damage is going to come from the BB torpedos. they have twice the damage of CR torpedos with a better pen, and more importantly target escorts less. the DR torps are super deadly, but we "only" have a thousand of those going out. the escort torps are mostly going into the enemies escort screen, but they have so many escorts I'm not sure how much that will do to ablate it. also, assuming the demon arks count as dreadnaughts, they are going to be eating 90 DR torps from the word go. if they don't have battle barge level armor that could mess em up pretty bad.
if anyone wants to check my math it's here.
DR 1000
BB 4635
CR 5376
E 7200
BB 4635
CR 5376
E 7200
DR 1000
BB 5632
CR 8688
E 23100
BB 5632
CR 8688
E 23100
looking at the navel sheet, I think that most of the damage is going to come from the BB torpedos. they have twice the damage of CR torpedos with a better pen, and more importantly target escorts less. the DR torps are super deadly, but we "only" have a thousand of those going out. the escort torps are mostly going into the enemies escort screen, but they have so many escorts I'm not sure how much that will do to ablate it. also, assuming the demon arks count as dreadnaughts, they are going to be eating 90 DR torps from the word go. if they don't have battle barge level armor that could mess em up pretty bad.
if anyone wants to check my math it's here.