I think back on how many times Ridcully rerolls have saved the day, and if he goes we are really going to miss him.
Honestly after we share our technology and knowledge with the major human powers I think Ridcully alone is worth more than the entire Imperial Trust except Saint Lin. So as painful as not having rerolls might be the loss to humanity is so much more.I think back on how many times Ridcully rerolls have saved the day, and if he goes we are really going to miss him.
The second most important thing we have- a good number of paragon-tier heroes, would soonish start melting away because of deathworld dangers with no re-rolls.Honestly after we share our technology and knowledge with the major human powers I think Ridcully alone is worth more than the entire Imperial Trust except Saint Lin. So as painful as not having rerolls might be the loss to humanity is so much more.
Since the vote is more than 3 to 1 by a huge margin let's talk about other stuff. Like who the Lion respected enough and could hide from Ridicully sight? I did not know he liked nyone or had any friends after the Heresy.
Or that we may have found a new way to travel through the warp using something that sounds similiar to the Necrons way. You know before GW made them use the webway.
Who our new assistant should be? I think we should go with either Administration assistant to build hives or Melanie to build shipyards since we are way behind Midgard and Vanaheim.
That we should consider start putting in mentor betas. We lost 4 betas so we had a 100 percent failure rate.
@DurinEven if Ridcully does I don't think we will lose ALL of our re-rolls. Sure, we might lose some of them but I don't think they will all just vanish. Ridcully isn't our only diviner, we have plenty of others. He is just by far our best.
"Specfic_Protagonist" said:So, I was thinking a bit about our current plans for the scouting mission on Isha, and part of it really wasn't clicking for me. Specifically (ha ha, I get it), the planned distractions really don't make a huge amount of sense if you look carefully at the overall situation.
On paper the distractions we've got lined up are just about perfect for pulling assets out of place without arousing suspicion or overcommitting, but we're neglecting one key fact: Nurgle's main opponent in the everlasting war in the Warp is Tzeentch, whose bread and butter is subtle plays like what we're doing. This raising the worrying possibility of Nurgle's forces smelling a rat, and the magnitude of the distraction just isn't big enough to force them to react anyway. This could plausibly lead to our Seers walking head first into an already on-guard gathering of forces specifically looking for people trying to infiltrate rather than opening the way for them to sneak in. Obviously not exactly an ideal situation.
What I'd like to suggest is that rather than playing it subtle with carefully planned infiltration routes and diversions tuned to provoke a response without raising alert levels, we instead don't really bother hiding the fact that this is a diversion for something but provoke as much non capital C chaos as possible while leaving as few clues as to what the ultimate goal is as possible.
I call it
We throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Everything will effectively distract Nurgle's forces from everything else—for anyone with a bone to pick with Papa Nurgle, this is going to be the best time to do it. Hell, if we get enough major things going the 'distraction' effort will be worth it in and of itself, cause seriously, Fuck Chaos. And most importantly, even if they correctly deduce that everything was, in fact, set up as a distraction, they still won't have any idea what for AND will be forced to respond by pulling forces out of position anyway, because people will be hitting targets that he can't afford to lose just on the suspicion of something being up—otherwise Tzeentch would have beaten his ass forever ago.
What I need from you guys is ideas about what all we can hit/influence to be hit. I've got a couple ideas already, but the more we can add to the list the better, as not only does the quality of this distraction for our Seers improve the more things get hit and the more groups involved, but so do the value of the 'distraction' attacks themselves.
Things I'm thinking:
Anyone else got ideas? Also, does this plan make sense to anyone else?
- We already nabbed the relevant general of the Star Father's plans for the Nurgle front, with the intention of exploiting the contingencies to provoke a probing attack. We can instead see how big/many attacks we could provoke without overcommitting our own resources
- Some of our heavy assets (See: Pheonix Lords) were left out of the mission cause they're not exactly stealthy. Hitting some real space assets or Warp assets with them makes sense, although we might need some target selection.
- Ynnead and Cegorach can cooperatively or independently hit some of the slightly more important outlying areas in the domain of Nurgle
- Something with the minor gods?
Also also, laughing one, is the idea plausible?
"laughing one" said:It's workable. There are a few issues though.
- As stated, you would need more than the three solid distractions in place to bring the quality of distraction up enough to counteract the rise in alert.
- Infosec is an issue. A bad roll could lead to Nurgle knowing that something's going down before the distractions occur, resulting in heightened preparations.
- You're going to be risking a LOT more. Right now your maximum reasonable losses are a few good Seers, and possibly a bit of a hit with the relationship with the polities of those on loan. Even if you have first string people hitting mostly second string targets as the distraction, there's still a risk—especially if the actions are counting on the rest of the distractions not falling flat
"young_Esther" said:I like this idea quite a bit more than our current plan. Feels like as is we'd need decent rolls to get a small bonus, and with bad rolls we'd get a malus. This plan, while we'd be risking assets other than Seers, looks like it would give them a small bonus even with bad rolls and give a pretty decent bonus with average rolls, to say nothing of what it would give with actually good rolls.
Eugene, have you looked at this?
Also, lol @ the music/name…
"Eugene" said:Sorry, back.
I like the general theme for the plan and am going to change the current plan to match unless there's backlash. The logic of our current plan looking a bit too much like a Tzeentch scheme for dealing with an enemy that specializes in dealing with those resonates with me, but the main advantage in my mind is that this seems like it has a real chance of doing non-trivial damage to Nurgle—or at least non-trivial for what sorts of timescale and forces we're working with right now.
I would like to add more ideas to the list, as we've got enough time to really set something in motion due to the delay at the Crucible. My own contribution will be redirecting that one Waaagh we've been debating towards Nurgle's shit—we're going to need to divert them somewhere that can handle them anyway at some point soon, so we may as well kill two birds with one stone.
"Eternal Wallaby" said:This is excellent.
For the small gods, don't they have some way to swipe bits of domain? I really doubt it's something they'd be trying on any scale during day to day affairs, but if this is the distraction of the century for Nurgle…well, they might be persuaded to risk it.
"Exiarat" said:Think we should see about setting Tzeentch's forces on it? It'd give an easy scapegoat, and he hates Nurgle so much more than us. Worth considering at least.
"Tzeentch" said:Yes, Tzeentch should certainly be involved. To strike hard against the forces of decay, of course.
"Fragment" said:Bad Tzeentch, Bad!
That said, any plan to manipulate Tzeentch is a bad one in my books.
"Eugene" said:Yeah, there's a reason we don't include working 'with' him in our plans. His main domain of Ambition means he's extremely prone to wanting to have his cake and eat it too, even if a temporary alliance of convenience would be far more likely to aid in his long term goals, and willingly working with him gives him a point on contact/control on you. We still don't really have a clear idea on how he uses those, but it's pretty clear that it's one of his surer ways of corrupting people, beyond even the rest of the Chaos gods.
Tzeentch said:
"Dald" said:The odds of Tzeentch sitting out on 'pants Nurgle day' is pretty much zero. I figure he'll do something of his own regardless of what we want, but given the nature of our attempted distraction and mission it probably won't fuck us. A strong recommendation as far as Tzeentch plots go
"Specific_Protagonist" said:So, as stands, distractions for Plan Benny Hill Theme beyond those in my first post are as follows
- Redirect Waaagh Killmoar towards Nurgle territory
- Steer Small Gods to domain thievery
- Do absolutely nothing that relies on or attempts to directly influence Tzeentch
Do we think we can get one or more of the other Chaos gods in on this? It seems a bit risky for info-sec, but they're really the only major groups left out that have the firepower…
"Exiarat" said:I imagine Malal would be down if we can steer him at all. Given our level of knowledge about Slannesh and their domain we might be able to provoke at least a small attack from that quarter too.
"Specific_Protagonist" said:Eh, worth it. We can use the small gods as cutouts. Using Slannesh would require one of our few remaining scrying actions, but could well be worth it
laughing one, are the additions outlined enough to tip significantly in our favor given reasonable rolls?
."laughing one" said:Yes, especially if your info sec holds. As is, although I'm not running the numbers, if you do everything mentioned even relatively bad rolls would result in a net good distraction (albeit at cost in some of your less disposable assets. Better rolls would both increase the quality of the distraction (although only to a point, as inner defenders/defenses aren't ever going to be pulled unless his domain is at risk of falling) and cause some damage to Nurgle's immediate situation, especially if you succeed in getting the other Chaos gods to escalate.
"selbst011" said:Hmm, I was thinking. If we really want to get this Mon'keigh to ascend, we ought to do a bit more to prep him.
We've got psychic tech a few millennia ahead of them and enough time to whip something up—why don't we have a Vaul shard make him a helmet?
I mean, QinRepublic said it himself in his post suggesting the idea—a paragon tier sentinel can detect him, and it's not like Nurgle's domain is going to lack those. He did almost get caught when he decided to spy on the Green Awakening, as that was where we saved his ass, and while he's probably better now than he was then I don't see any indication of it boosting his stealth trait.
"QinRepublic" said:It requires a paragon sentinel to even be capable of detecting him, not to detect him—he could tap dance in front of anyone else and they'd be none the wiser. I imagine that a low-tier paragon without a good detection specific trait would struggle greatly to find him even if he wasn't being cautious. The Green Awakening was packed with the absolute best Diviners in the galaxy, and while some of them could have detected him none of them were there representing Nurgle.
That said, I fully support the idea. While it might not be a massive increase in his stealth in absolute terms, throwing another +20 or whatever can easily be the difference between breezing through the inner defenses and getting caught. Given just how important this is, we should probably make another one for the Astares.
Hell, even if it wasn't going to help all that much with the mission I'd like to give him something to help us stay on his good side and show that we're not just throwing him at this as a disposable asset. While the cost to us isn't massive, giving him one of our helms from a Vaul shard represents us investing part of a finite asset in him/his success. That way latter on if and when he does ascend and/or transcend, he'll know we weren't just using him strictly for our own benefit.
I mean, I imagine given the tier of Seer he is he'll know that already, but it never hurts to have a concrete demonstration of the fact.
"Calmunequipped" said:Dude, you're just hoping he'll roll well enough in this mission to transcend and justify your emotional investment in your future save Isha plan.
"archfiend" said:nah, the real one here with emotional investment is Specific_Protagonist. Dude's so into his shipping of Isha and Ynnead that I'm surprised his name isn't random_npc.
"Specific_Protagonist" said:I resent that.
And seriously, their duality makes them the perfect divine couple. I can't help it if you're too blind to see.
"archfiend" said:Never disagreed, just said you were super emotionally invested in it and then you proved my point.
"Nalrey" said:So, was thinking about the (currently) baseline human Seer we're pinning our hopes on turning into an Eldrad-tier utter baddass, and thought he could use some (more) omake support for the upcoming mission. Was also a bit inspired by the Benny Hill theme...
A Garden Party
The infiltration had started well—perhaps too well. Shrugging off the foul misma of the ever present plague and decay of the realm had been trivial in the outer portion of the fetid garden, and the so-called sentinels may well have never existed for all the chance they had of discovering him.
Even entering the manor had gone without a hitch. While the decay there had been more potent, between his own impossible resistance to hostile effects of the Warp and potent medicines bargained for from his fellow residents on the Crucible, they had no hold on him. The labyrinthian passages kept from him no secrets, as he steered himself effortlessly towards the fount of hope chained within.
While this was not his first time violating the halls of a hostile god, the ease with which he was doing so was almost enough to get him to drop his guard. It was enough for a momentary distraction as he ducked around the exalted daemon tending to his father's cauldron of horrors to allow the faintest of traces of the plagued decay of the realm to cling to him.
Alone, while weakening, it was far from debilitating, so he had taken it as a warning that despite being far greater than he was the last time he had tread in a god's private lair he was still far from immune to the danger. Fortune favored him, and he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams going in, reaching the cage of trapped Isha herself.
It was on his way out that things went wrong. The rot and plague, although confined to the outermost portion of his soul's aura though his ever-present focus and control, had its effects. Effects that, although in the great scheme of things were quite minor, especially compared to what happens to most exposed to the Plaguefather's fel workings, were nonetheless catastrophic.
Upon being exposed to the light of the open door to the manor, Ridcully sneezed.
The reaction was immediate. For all that none could detect him as he strolled almost casually through their lair, this was due mostly to his superlative control of his aura and how little he shed. And the foul minions of the plague god were far from lazy in their assigned task, each desperate for praise and reward from their 'father'. Like a frenzy they were after him, tripping over each other and launching attacks in his direction that would have been comical but for their deadly intent and the impossible danger they represented.
Things had gotten out of hand, but Ridcully did not panic. Partially because after centuries of being a Seer of great skill it took quite a lot to provoke true panic, but partially because he had a plan. A simple plan—more a contingency really. One that he had only been given because no one minded if Chaos' shit got fucked up.
While it was generally quite difficult to plot against an enemy accustomed to dealing with the Changer of Way's ploys, there were still exploitable weaknesses. Exploitable weaknesses like pointing to the side and saying "Hey look, a distraction" being a perfectly viable distraction, at least for a moment. A moment that was all he needed, as he threw some deceptively simple looking bottled fire at their frozen forms and ran.
While the running certainly served the purpose of getting him clear of his immediate pursuers and gave him the time to shed the outermost layer of his aura, and with it, the disease that had gained purchase upon him and caused this mess (he almost hoped one of the trackers attempting to find his trail discovered it, as they resonated far stronger with decay than he did), this was not its only purpose. Or even its main purpose, really.
Acquired at great expense from one of the many natives to his planet, and only with the express promise to use it only against the forces of Chaos and far away from the Cruicible, the bottle contained naught but concentrated Truefire, the fire that burns all. Against an alert god it would fail even as a distraction, and when launched at one as a surprise it would only just succeed, but against mere daemons and structures within the Warp it was inescapable and ever-growing death. Death Ridcully planned on avoiding.
At least it should also serve as a distraction for the other Seers, both to aid them in acquiring information he had missed or if he fell on his way out, and to aid their escape. Escape though was all he intended to do, to share his bounty of information and to recover from these blighted plaguelands.
laughing one, omake. Anything that needs changing? I tried to include things that he might plausibly be capable of given his traits as well as what they could have been trying to bargain for from the Crucible that they needed a few years for.
"SatanasFerreus" said:
"laughing one" said:Good omake. Only issues I saw were (1) he would be taking this a bit more seriously, (2) the general feeling on the Crucible is Fuck Chaos enough that there's no way they'd need to pay if they said they were using it in a major operation against a Chaos god, and (3) shedding the disease from Nurgle was done way too easily for what is effectively the primary defense of his realm.
Change those and it could become canon if Ridcully keeps rolling like he has so far on the update I'm working on…
"QinRepublic" said:
"Eugene" said:That's called laughing one being a tease. Still, excellent news that at least someone is rolling well.
"Nalrey" said:*cue nervous noises waiting for update*
Fingers crossed that the dice continue to favor the most hax baseline human ever. Hopefully the omake bonus helps.
No, clearly if he rolls for bonuses for the overall omake it should be added as a bonus on that rollsAn omake within an omake should this count as two omakes then?
I would not be against that. This was a team effort. Though maybe they are also getting a reward for their efforts in this? @DurinIf we succeed, should we cut up the favour and offer a few scraps of it to the Peoples who helped Ridcully in the mission?
If we succeed, should we cut up the favour and offer a few scraps of it to the Peoples who helped Ridcully in the mission?
I'm loving the Negaverse omakes!
I'd support cutting the honourbound favor into 2 major and 3 minor favors.
Enough to give a minor to the mycenids and use a major for getting access to the webway. Which, among other things, would greatly ease the difficulty of governing and protecting a merged dragon nest polity.
Agreed, but this was prompted by a comment on whether splitting up and the favor and giving helpers part of it was something we could or should do.i'd rather just give them a pile of trade goods, or a favor from us.