The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Proposal votes have never been by plan before, IIRC. Votes on them are always individual. So here's my votes:

[X] Vote in favor of the second Inquisition funding proposal.

Argument: We will continue to have our hostile neighbors try to infiltrate us and steal our technology. Even now a Tzeentchian polity is attempting to infiltrate us, and that will not stop any time soon. The better funded the Inquisition is, the better they'll be able to prevent information theft.

[X] Vote in favor of the second defense increase proposal.

Argument: We have limited ability to strike out against our hostile neighbors, as they have faster means of travel. As such, we need the strongest defense we can manage.

[X] Eldar Communication Proposal: Ridcully can potentially contact Eldrad Ulthran telepathically, and Eldrad helped him during the Green Awakening.
-[X] The goal of this proposal is to allow Ridcully to make contact. We would share information regarding predictions on the Dark Eldar, the C'Tan, and large Waaaghs (likely they already know, but likely wouldn't hurt). Possible other goals include asking to see if the Trust could get limited Webway access to talk and possibly do tech trades with major human polities in the galaxy, perhaps strike at neighboring threats faster (or perhaps negotiated strikes by the Eldar against them), as well as human tech stashes they may possess, and maybe some kind of non-aggression agreement. No actual agreements will be made at this time, as any agreement must be ratified by the High Council.

Argument: Speech courtesy of Doomed Wombat:

In order to maintain our advantages and grow stronger in the face of overwhelming odds as fast as possible we propose that we contact other known surviving polities by means of the Eldar Webway and exchange technology with them.

Our current understanding of the situation is that there are three major polities

1. Vulkan's Imperium Quartius the strongest, with a Primarch at its head that is going to rise to a preeminent position of power in the galaxy. A wealth of ancient knowledge and power
2. The Imperium Tertius or Ultramar. On the front line of the Destroyer's return with thousands of chapters calling it home.
3. The Forge Realm of Callamus: Made of hundreds of Forge Worlds this realm has survived to become one of the largest in Segmentum Tempestus and has doubtless reclaimed a vast array of ancient technology.

All three of these realms benefit from our assistance, Vulkan can appear properly and claim more territory, Ultramar needs it if it is to survive the wrath of the C'tan and according to our divinations Callamus is stretched to its limits on all fronts. We also benefit securing additional technology and techniques.

The obvious problem with this is that our technology will be stolen quicker, but given our divination of Asdrubal Vect Chaos is about to gain possess of weapons surpassing even ours in deadlines. These polities will need more advantages as will we.

While the Eldar will require payment, Ridcully's divinations suggest that this is because they are desperate for any assistance they can acquire, thus if by paying we not only strengthen ourselves, strengthen our fellow survivors and stop threats to the galaxy as a whole I consider that a bargain.

In addition, if amenable, Ridcully has determined that the Eldar also have technology of the Dark Age that they use to strengthen polities that require it, which they would likely give to us if we ask.

Finally the Eldar may have a key to addressing one of our most pressing issues travel. Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology advanced far, it is possible the Eldar remember whether some of them, any of them found an alternative mode of travel rather than the warp. Even if not, we should still ask if there are any alternative methods long dead xenos used in ages past. Surely the Emperor's webway project shows that he was willing to use Xeno's craft to deny chaos the opportunity to corrupt human souls and any chance to deny them is one we should take.

These are some of the most pressing and dire times the galaxy has ever seen. Even now there are two ork Waaaghs who have reached their penultimate level of power, poised to crash down upon the galaxy. Even now a being who has supped on the souls of uncountable trillions bargains with a God of Chaos, selling his followers for the highest price he can empowering the creature that could destroy us all. Even now in the void between galaxies the Necrons fight a war on a scale not possible since the War in Heaven a thin barrier between the the galaxy and the oncoming Devourer.

These are dark times, the darkest times, our enemies grow stronger and so we too must strengthen ourselves by the most efficient and moral ways we can and stand strong in the night as our departed Emperor asked of us.

[X] Helguard Subsidy Proposal: Propose that the military rebate be increased to 50% for the Helguard. Rotbart is willing to increase the tithe of Helguard to the Imperial Trust Guard to compensate for this.

Argument: The Helguard are the most elite human troops, barring Astartes, in the Trust. However, they are expensive to train and maintain. Funding will help ensure that larger numbers of them can be kept, bettering the Trust's security.

[X] Propose the Security Council and the Inquisition make a joint study of the viability and requirements of eventually merging our polity with that of the Blood Dragons, to be reported on in a future High Council Session. Otherwise, work to continue improving relations regardless.

Argument: The Blood Dragons have thus far proven to be reliable allies, and if their sector can be brought up to Imperial Trust technological standards then it will make our area of space significantly more able to fight off threats.
 
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Argument: The Eldar are a powerful xenos race, and while we should not trust them they are at the last aligned against the Dark Eldar, Chaos (especially Slaanesh), the Orks, and the Necrons, so non-hostile relations would be preferable. Further, we could potentially strengthen ourselves and other major non-Chaos human polities through judicious tech trades and information exchanges, bettering humanity's position in the galaxy.
I'd also add the FTL thing it costs nothing.

Other things that could be added are things like Vect giving chaos access to Eldar tech which will reduce their willingness to nick ours as well as its value in their eyes.

@Enjou

If I wrote up a thing for the chosen do you think it's a decent idea?

@Durin
1. If we get the Eldar stuff through and we contact them as outlined in the proposals seen above will we have to wait for the next meeting to actually do the trade (assuming the trade is something we're willing to pay) or will it be like the Blood Dragon's trade where the council members are told and give their yay or nay votes?
2. Should I repost the "speech" thing I did? I just want to see if it helps, maybe swing a vote or two to our side?
 
[X] Propose improving relations with the Blood Dragons, with the eventual goal of merging polities into something tighter knit and permanent.

Argument: The Blood Dragons have thus far proven to be reliable allies, and if their sector can be brought up to Imperial Trust technological standards then it will make our area of space significantly more able to fight off threats.

That's a big step. Committing to a merger right now seems too much to ask. Maybe change it to "Propose the Security Council and the Inquisition make a joint study of the viability and requirements of eventually merging our polity with that of the Blood Dragons, to be reported on in a future High Council Session."

Always do a study first.
 
I'm honestly not sure what the proposal is trying to accomplish. Also, I don't think forcing the military traditions of Midgard onto the other worlds is a good idea. I think mutual training has been done anyways.
It's not mutual training, its more the Chosen system for training elite soldiers is better than other worlds (for example the Svartflar Guard have a higher bonus than the chosen due only to their equipment, the Chosen have the higher base bonus).

Since a lot of the Trust use their system already the idea would be to formalise it more as a Trust thing, collate the most effective methods of training individual worlds have come up with and then apply it to the whole thing and since it apparently only costs thrones it's the most cost effective way I can think of increasing Svartfar's Guard's skill by about 20 points or so.
 
That's a big step. Committing to a merger right now seems too much to ask. Maybe change it to "Propose the Security Council and the Inquisition make a joint study of the viability and requirements of eventually merging our polity with that of the Blood Dragons, to be reported on in a future High Council Session."

Always do a study first.

@Nurgle's plan already has talks of merger in it. (and material and financial assistance, which I don't see why they'd need - they're self-sufficient, and its not like the Trust can really afford to give them huge amounts of financial and material assistance) I figured it was ok, but I'll add your bit.


@Enjou uh Hellguard subsidies are part of the financial reform and that is next after we have these current issues and proposals.

Where does it say that?
 
It's not mutual training, its more the Chosen system for training elite soldiers is better than other worlds (for example the Svartflar Guard have a higher bonus than the chosen due only to their equipment, the Chosen have the higher base bonus).

Since a lot of the Trust use their system already the idea would be to formalise it more as a Trust thing, collate the most effective methods of training individual worlds have come up with and then apply it to the whole thing and since it apparently only costs thrones it's the most cost effective way I can think of increasing Svartfar's Guard's skill by about 20 points or so.

Where was this stated?

Also, again, why does this need to be forced through law? It seems the kind of thing that Trust worlds would not like, due to being an imposition into their military traditions.
 
Where does it say that?
Linked to this is the fact that the Imperial Trust is currently running on a significant deficit, one that is likely to only increase as time goes on. As such there are a range of proposals for increasing funding to the Imperial Trust, mostly focused on either increasing the base tax rate or the trade levy. This has been put off until after changes to government have been decided so that you know what new expenses there are beforehand.
Here I think.

Where was this stated?

Also, again, why does this need to be forced through law? It seems the kind of thing that Trust worlds would not like, due to being an imposition into their military traditions.
I was asking it around the Invasion of Svartheim (its why I used the Svartar Guard as a comparison.)

And because its a cost effective way of getting other world's elites less terrible, though to back bench it for now.

@Durin
1. Is a proposal like "Coordinate and apply the Chosen System across the entire Trust with a view of increasing the quality of elite soldiers across it" possible?
2. Does Rotbart think proposing something along the lines of will be met with anger by other worlds for imposing on their military traditions?
 
@Enjou Dragon's nest needs help upgrading thier infrastructure. A single forge produces more Am than the whole of Dragon's nest.

Also financing for the hellguard can be tacked on with a increase of the military rebate which would be covered under financial reform.

@Durin 1would Hellguard financing be covered better with the military rebate or get its own bill? 2 Which one would cost us the least political will?
 

That states that new expenses would be known beforehand. Helguard subsidies of any kind would be a new expense.

@Enjou Dragon's nest needs help upgrading thier infrastructure. A single forge produces more Am than the whole of Dragon's nest.

Who exactly said they needed help with this? And generally the real blocker for this is having enough technical people to do it.

Also, I'll remind you that the Trust is currently operating on a deficit. It can't really afford to spend more resources helping someone else upgrade their shit, when really the Trust is constantly trying to upgrade it's own shit.
 
Did you ever ask if the Trust can really afford it?
One cathedral of the Ommission costs 88,000 am and 10,000 em, Dragons nest has everything else neeeded in the billions. We got the designs for the forges from them. We spend more than that ever year doing less important stuff. Even if it is just getting one forge started that would be a huge boost to them and to the trust if we become one government. I am hoping it is not but helping them build forges or get there would be a huge advantage. We spend way more on Am and em than anyone else in the Trust because of the hellguard are so expensive.
 
A single forge produces more Am than the whole of Dragon's nest.
No, the economy table for Dragon's Nest just lists all resources by the thousand ("kAdvanced Material"), so they make about 141 million AM per year (before upkeep eats most of it) which is fairly decent (I mean yeah, Muspelheim makes slightly more but Muspelheim is bullshit).
 
Red Crested Warp Fowl.
Red Crested Warp Fowl.


Thought to be an urban legend until somewhat recently, the Red crested warp fowl, more colloquially known as the Avernite Chicken is a small bird believed to primarily hunt in the warp. Physically it appears near identical to a typical chicken, despite it's unassuming appearance it possess psychic powers of unusual potency and is considered extremely dangerous. As it was only recently discovered little is known of the creature and much of what has been inferred is suspect at best. What is known is that there are a number of reported cases where a cult has attempted to summon a demon, only for a Warp fowl to emerge from their portal and slaughter them before returning to the imatrium. Initially such reports where dismissed as hallucinations and the warp fowl was believed to be an urban legend. However recently a recent summoning of a warp fowl by a coven of delta class witches resulted in a running battle overt enough to be observed and verified.

During the one recorded instance of the Red crested Warp fowl it demonstrated a number of potent pyromantic abilities, as well as a great deal of skill at unraveling or countering the powers of its foes. Physically its combination of extreme strength, durability and small size allowed the creature to propel itself at extreme speed, punching through reinforced walls with ease. Post battle analysis of the more intact bunker walls it burst through suggests that some form of power was used to aid in penetration. Close analysis of the footage suggests but does not confirm, that it is capable of some form of short range teleportation, and that it is either a skilled tactician or posses minor combat precognition. Little else so far has been determined at this time, however at no point in the footage did the creature show visible injuries or signs of strain. As such it cannot be ruled out that other techniques or abilities where kept in reserve when establishing a ceiling for its possible threat potential. The possibility of some form of illusion or shapeshifting power has been raised as well, as it's near identical appearance to the typical chicken is cause for suspicion.

Further efforts at analysis and data gathering are ongoing, including re analysis of older forensic examinations of suspected failed demonic summonings. At present efforts are stymied by the violence of a failed summoning closely resembling the violence of a rampaging psyker. However, there has been one possible indicator. Forensic work has found small amounts of burned plant matter at the battle site. At present almost a dozen different species of plants have been isolated, however so far all samples have proven suspiciously difficult to identify. As the recovered list of summoning reagents did not include any plant matter, it is believed that they were introduced by the Warp fowl itself. What if any significance they posses is unknown at this time.



@Durin I made a thing. if it can be massaged into cannon let me know.
 
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No, the economy table for Dragon's Nest just lists all resources by the thousand ("kAdvanced Material"), so they make about 141 million AM per year (before upkeep eats most of it) which is fairly decent (I mean yeah, Muspelheim makes slightly more but Muspelheim is bullshit).
That would make more sense but still means that trust core worlds significantly outproduce all thier worlds.

@Durin what would economical assistance to Dragon's nest look like, or to be more precise what would they need that the trust can provide?
 
Okay, so we might really want to put foward our proposals, particularly the Eldar Webway plan.



No, I brought this up literally yesterday and Nurgle had it in his plan IIRC. I'm going to be salty as hell if no one was told or we can't tell people since that would have made it way easier for us to convince people to do the Webway plan, especially revealing the info that Vect is going to empower chaos even more.

@Durin Has the rest of the Trust been informed about all the high level waaaghs and Vects deal with Slaanesh? If not can reveal it the argument for the Webway proposal?
yes it has
Eldar Proposal

In order to maintain our advantages and grow stronger in the face of overwhelming odds as fast as possible we propose that we contact other known surviving polities by means of the Eldar Webway and exchange technology with them.

Our current understanding of the situation is that there are three major polities

1. Vulkan's Imperium Quartius the strongest, with a Primarch at its head that is going to rise to a preeminent position of power in the galaxy. A wealth of ancient knowledge and power
2. The Imperium Tertius or Ultramar. On the front line of the Destroyer's return with thousands of chapters calling it home.
3. The Forge Realm of Callamus: Made of hundreds of Forge Worlds this realm has survived to become one of the largest in Segmentum Tempestus and has doubtless reclaimed a vast array of ancient technology.

All three of these realms benefit from our assistance, Vulkan can appear properly and claim more territory, Ultramar needs it if it is to survive the wrath of the C'tan and according to our divinations Callamus is stretched to its limits on all fronts. We also benefit securing additional technology and techniques.

The obvious problem with this is that our technology will be stolen quicker, but given our divination of Asdrubal Vect Chaos is about to gain possess of weapons surpassing even ours in deadlines. These polities will need more advantages as will we.

While the Eldar will require payment, Ridcully's divinations suggest that this is because they are desperate for any assistance they can acquire, thus if by paying we not only strengthen ourselves, strengthen our fellow survivors and stop threats to the galaxy as a whole I consider that a bargain.

In addition, if amenable, Ridcully has determined that the Eldar also have technology of the Dark Age that they use to strengthen polities that require it, which they would likely give to us if we ask.

Finally the Eldar may have a key to addressing one of our most pressing issues travel. Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology advanced far, it is possible the Eldar remember whether some of them, any of them found an alternative mode of travel rather than the warp. Even if not, we should still ask if there are any alternative methods long dead xenos used in ages past. Surely the Emperor's webway project shows that he was willing to use Xeno's craft to deny chaos the opportunity to corrupt human souls and any chance to deny them is one we should take.

@Enjou @Nurgle

In short
1. Please let us ask the Eldar to let us set up a tech trade with the three polities above.
2. Please let us ask the Eldar to give us their DAoT tech.
3. Please let us ask the Eldar to tell us if they have any alternative FTL methods.

These are the three proposals in regards to the Eldar that I can see and the first at least can go through as we have 6-5.

The above is a speech, @Durin
1. Would a speech like the above help convince anyone who's abstaining or against to join?
2. Is there any info in said speech like talking about Vect that shouldn't be there?
1. yes it is
2. no
@Durin are the Quartoks showing signs of being altered by the Planet Mind too?
not yet but they have been here a lot less time and even fewer generations, so the type of incremental changes that seem to be being made will take a long time to have an effect

So basically, everyone who doesn't have to pay for it?

...

Its sad that I can't disagree.

@Durin
1) If the Inquisition had Carte Blanche to recruit any and every pskyer that they wanted, what percentage would that stabilize at?
2) Would it be lower than since they're getting dibs on the Hero units and primaris or about the same as the heros are such minorities, compared to the maximum number of psykers that meet their minimum standards.

What about Midgard? They've committed so much to the expansion of the trust that their economy stagnated (which isn't something any other system did) and despite that they've still generally offered a higher fraction of their army than any other planet.
And what about Byzantium? This turn they offered about 95% of their space marines for long term deployments.
Honestly I could make arguments like these for most of the planets.
Nobody in the trust is freeloading and that makes your statement rather unfair.

I don't disagree with the compromise though.
The fact there is only one vote in favor of the heavy defense plan that would actually be required to upgrade and maintain those defenses is kind of a telling split. And I'm especially concerned about the colonies who don't have a voice here. If the core planets are worried about the impact this will have on their economy will it be sustainable across 27 planets whose sum economic output is roughly equal to Nilfheim's.
1. not much over what theya re asking for except they would also revuit all of your elite primaris and above
also the argument can be made for at least half a dozen planets that they are contributing the most
@Durin so the Colonies have better ground defenses than some of the core worlds?
yes, they were built from the ground up to resist heavy assault using high grade tech, the core worlds were not
@Durin;
1) How many of the Colonies and Core worlds have implement a Chosen style Grenadier System?

IIRC it was Muspelheim, Nilfheim, Avernus and Midgard.
1. all colonies (they were mostly colonized by Midgard), Midgard and Alfheim
I'd also add the FTL thing it costs nothing.

Other things that could be added are things like Vect giving chaos access to Eldar tech which will reduce their willingness to nick ours as well as its value in their eyes.

@Enjou

If I wrote up a thing for the chosen do you think it's a decent idea?

@Durin
1. If we get the Eldar stuff through and we contact them as outlined in the proposals seen above will we have to wait for the next meeting to actually do the trade (assuming the trade is something we're willing to pay) or will it be like the Blood Dragon's trade where the council members are told and give their yay or nay votes?
2. Should I repost the "speech" thing I did? I just want to see if it helps, maybe swing a vote or two to our side?
1. it will be like the Blood Dragon's

Here I think.


I was asking it around the Invasion of Svartheim (its why I used the Svartar Guard as a comparison.)

And because its a cost effective way of getting other world's elites less terrible, though to back bench it for now.

@Durin
1. Is a proposal like "Coordinate and apply the Chosen System across the entire Trust with a view of increasing the quality of elite soldiers across it" possible?
2. Does Rotbart think proposing something along the lines of will be met with anger by other worlds for imposing on their military traditions?
1. possible yes, politically viable no
2. yes, especially Vanaheim, Asgard and Svartalfheim

@Enjou Dragon's nest needs help upgrading thier infrastructure. A single forge produces more Am than the whole of Dragon's nest.

Also financing for the hellguard can be tacked on with a increase of the military rebate which would be covered under financial reform.

@Durin 1would Hellguard financing be covered better with the military rebate or get its own bill? 2 Which one would cost us the least political will?
you are missing the fact that Dragon's Nes produces k(Material) rather then Material, so they make 170 million AM not 170 thousand
1. either works but its own bill would be more effective
2. military rebates

That would make more sense but still means that trust core worlds significantly outproduce all thier worlds.

@Durin what would economical assistance to Dragon's nest look like, or to be more precise what would they need that the trust can provide?
AM and EM + tech priests + technology
 
[X] Enjou

If funding the Blood Dragons is needed and viable I'm sure the Inquisition and Security Council will bring it up as part of their investigation.
 
Yaay.

1. possible yes, politically viable no
Gottit.

Red Crested Warp Fowl.


Thought to be an urban legend until somewhat recently, the Red crested warp fowl, more colloquially known as the Avernite Chicken is a small bird believed to primarily hunt in the warp. Physically it appears near identical to a typical chicken, despite it's unassuming appearance it possess psychic powers of unusual potency and is considered extremely dangerous. As it was only recently discovered little is known of the creature and much of what has been inferred is suspect at best. What is known is that there are a number of reported cases where a cult has attempted to summon a demon, only for a Warp fowl to emerge from their portal and slaughter them before returning to the imatrium. Initially such reports where dismissed as hallucinations and the warp fowl was believed to be an urban legend. However recently a recent summoning of a warp fowl by a coven of delta class witches resulted in a running battle overt enough to be observed and verified.

During the one recorded instance of the Red crested Warp fowl it demonstrated a number of potent pyromantic abilities, as well as a great deal of skill at unraveling or countering the powers of its foes. Physically its combination of extreme strength, durability and small size allowed the creature to propel itself at extreme speed, punching through reinforced walls with ease. Post battle analysis of the more intact bunker walls it burst through suggests that some form of power was used to aid in penetration. Close analysis of the footage suggests but does not confirm, that it is capable of some form of short range teleportation, and that it is either a skilled tactician or posses minor combat precognition. Little else so far has been determined at this time, however at no point in the footage did the creature show visible injuries or signs of strain. As such it cannot be ruled out that other techniques or abilities where kept in reserve when establishing a ceiling for its possible threat potential. The possibility of some form of illusion or shapeshifting power has been raised as well, as it's near identical appearance to the typical chicken is cause for suspicion.

Further efforts at analysis and data gathering are ongoing, including re analysis of older forensic examinations of suspected failed demonic summonings. At present efforts are stymied by the violence of a failed summoning closely resembling the violence of a rampaging psyker. However, there has been one possible indicator. Forensic work has found small amounts of burned plant matter at the battle site. At present almost a dozen different species of plants have been isolated, however so far all samples have proven suspiciously difficult to identify. As the recovered list of summoning reagents did not include any plant matter, it is believed that they were introduced by the Warp fowl itself. What if any significance they posses is unknown at this time.



@Durin I made a thing. if it can be massaged into cannon let me know.
also THE CHICKEN IS CANON!!!!!
 
@Doomed Wombat I am going to drop the choosen sysytem since it will apparently piss off 3 or more worlds.


@Durin can we get a estimate of how much of each Dragon's nest would ask for assistance?

@Enjou I think we should go for a increase in the rebate when financial reform comes up since it would cost us less in political will.
 
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