The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Actually, now that I think of it, we could Scry and Fry lander pilots while they're in descent, causing crash landings. @Durin, would that work?
I don't know, they'll be fast-moving targets behind thick armour and strong concentrations of WAAAGH! energy. All our Scry&Fry targets so far have been relatively static Armies on the ground.

@Durin:
1) do our psykers think that Scry&Fry on Ork Pilots will be cost effective?

EDIT:
Actually, those pilot-less ships will be crashing into the Landing Sites.

2) will Scry & Fry slow down Ork AA deployments?
 
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Actually, now that I think of it, we could Scry and Fry lander pilots while they're in descent, causing crash landings. @Durin, would that work?

EDIT - then again, not sure if we want to reveal our hand that early.
Tipping our hand is something to worry about against competent opponents who will adjust to mitigate or counter our newly revealed capabilities. We're up against an especially idiotic Ork. Even if he did realize what was going on, I doubt he'd be able to come up with an effective counter, or try to mitigate similar attacks in the future (i.e., whatever hypothetical method to defend the landers wouldn't be implemented on the Gargants or other large vehicles unless losses there to the same tactic get big enough to draw his eye).
 
I again assert we should wait to use Scry and Fry until they're on the march.
Actually, now that I think of it, we could Scry and Fry lander pilots while they're in descent, causing crash landings. @Durin, would that work?
Not pilots, engines/fuel tanks, like we did in earlier invasions.
EDIT - then again, not sure if we want to reveal our hand that early.
Again, our enemy is a moron, there's no need to try any fancy nonsense, we just need to be as efficient as possible. Also this is Orks, when their aircraft randomly explodes midair they won't think "gee, there must be enemy psykers performing targeted pyromancy attacks", they will think "some burna boy got bored/too excited" or "grot got sucked into engines while trying to drink fuel" or, most likely, "hehehe boom".
And speaking of eficciency - making engines of lander transporting Ork elites catch fire is much easier and results in less casualties than actually killing them on the ground.
 
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Tipping our hand is something to worry about against competent opponents who will adjust to mitigate or counter our newly revealed capabilities. We're up against an especially idiotic Ork. Even if he did realize what was going on, I doubt he'd be able to come up with an effective counter, or try to mitigate similar attacks in the future (i.e., whatever hypothetical method to defend the landers wouldn't be implemented on the Gargants or other large vehicles unless losses there to the same tactic get big enough to draw his eye).
Again, our enemy is a moron, there's no need to try any fancy nonsense, we just need to be as efficient as possible. Also this is Orks, when their aircraft randomly explodes midair they won't think "gee, there must be enemy psykers performing targeted pyromancy attacks", they will think "some burna boy got bored/too excited" or "grot got sucked into engines while trying to drink fuel" most likely "hehehe boom".

I'm not worried about him doing anything fancy with the knowledge. I'm worried about him doing something simple. Even an idiot can do things right sometimes. The worst thing he can do right now is coalesce his series of less threatening hordes into larger, more threatening hordes, which is something I could see him potentially doing if his lieutenants start getting killed before they're even on the march. So the best thing to do right now is not give him any reason to try to do that, and only start the Scry and Fry when everyone's started marching - once they're on the march, the chaos from losing leaders will be maximized.
 
So, what, we're just going to let the march unopposed? For crying out loud, when have the Orks NOT had air superiority?
Their superiority is so high that we can not contest the sky. We simply have to few fighters for that right now. Until the orkish numbers have thinned (both to the AA of the cities and to raids in space) we can contest and start harassing. Before that time we throw away lives for nothing.
 
[] Plan Conservation

While I tend towards Enjou's plans, and vastly prefer the Legendary Enjou Haman, in this case I would prefer to NOT have our fighters slaughtered en masse. I recall all too vividly the near total destruction of our previous Fighter plans. I could switch if a better plan with lighter fighter usage is produced (and could actually pass). I personally am a "Turtle" type player, though, so my preferences are more defensive. Bleh, no ideal options present themselves.
 
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I like plan conservation but would like some divination to stay a few steps ahead of any clever warbosses
 
High Grandmaster Ridcully spent a year examining the Illusion Pines in order to determine if there are any useful psychic materials that can be found in it. Unsurprisingly he found that Force Weapons made from their wood are a very good focus for illusions, and a better then normal focus for telepathy as a whole.
@Durin, does this mean that the entire Force Weapon has to be made out of the wood or just that it needs to incorporate the wood into its construction?
 
AA won't decide the control of the sky on it's own. During the first wave in particular it's going to be saturated with bommas attacking the cities to soften us up. If we want to get at the landers and fighters - and we do - we need to use our aircraft. Yes, the sheer numbers will wear them down but at one of the best exchange rates we'll get in the war because flying is technical and orks are not natural pilots. Each fighter with a crew of 1 will kill perhaps dozens of fighter-bommas (capable of considerable damage to ground targets) and landers containing hundreds or thousands of orks who thus don't get to fight back. Even with our myriad advantages those orks on the ground are a threat. They're superhuman waaagh! filled killing machines and the ones that make it to combat will inflict casualties.
 
It's more important to keep our casualties down in this war than to get impressive exchange ratios in particular engagements, we are safe to conduct this war on our timescale and have no actual need for high intensity engagements with their entire air force that would quicken the end of the war, which is of negligible importance, for the cost of high casualties. Losing an entire quarter of our air forces just for light harassment just doesn't seem worth it when we can keep our air behind our AA and fight every battle from a position of strength and keep our casualties to the very minimum.
 
It's more important to keep our casualties down in this war than to get impressive exchange ratios in particular engagements, we are safe to conduct this war on our timescale and have no actual need for high intensity engagements with their entire air force that would quicken the end of the war, which is of negligible importance, for the cost of high casualties. Losing an entire quarter of our air forces just for light harassment just doesn't seem worth it when we can keep our air behind our AA and fight every battle from a position of strength and keep our casualties to the very minimum.
A kill is a kill. This is a battle from a position of strength that keeps casualties to a minimum - we will lose more humans per ork fighting them on the ground even at wall defences than we will dropping them out of the sky with fighters. Fighter-bommas that we don't dogfight today will be killing our people as close air support tomorrow. Planes you can't use because you're afraid to lose them aren't worth preserving.

Ork pop faster than humans breed. They build weapons faster than us, they steal tech fast and they start out massively outnumbering us. A slow war favours them. Meanwhile Svartalfheim is one of the key industrial worlds of the Trust and it's not producing anything but munitions for immediate use nor trading for the duration. The elites of the entire Trust are tied up for the duration. A slow war costs us.
 
[X] Plan Battle Start

Hitting them when they land is too good of a opportunity to pass. I do not expect them to be the best trained and organized force.
 
A kill is a kill. This is a battle from a position of strength that keeps casualties to a minimum
No it's objectively not, keeping casualties to a minimum means not risking them for higher exchange ratios, which is exactly what flying our outnumbered air into their entire landing force would be.
Fighter-bommas that we don't dogfight today will be killing our people as close air support tomorrow. Planes you can't use because you're afraid to lose them aren't worth preserving.
No fighters we dont risk our men to kill now will fall against our AA later, its literally got nothing to do with fear, no ones advocating for our planes to sit in their hangers the entire war that just silly, I want to deploy them where their casualties will be lowest, not their kill ratio the highest trying to chaise glory
Ork pop faster than humans breed. They build weapons faster than us, they steal tech fast and they start out massively outnumbering us.
Your massively exaggerating how fast the orks can recover, they will not in any way be able to actually start to increase in numbers over this war, they will lose troops and equipment constantly throughout, this is not even in question.

Edit:
From what you can see victory is assured, all that remains to discover is what the cost of victory will be, and whether the Trust can afford to pay it.
Yeah we were predicted an assured victory before the orks arrived then we started blowing hulks up left right and center, claiming we can now lose a war of attrition is just scaremongering
 
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Thinking over the arguments for and agents having our fighters engage the ork lading, one thing that I don't think has been discussed much is that this is the most concentrated that the ork air craft are going to be for the rest of the campaign.
I do not like the idea of letting them land unopposed, but not fighting the big ork blob all at once is what we need to do if we are going to minimize our losses. Once the orks split up we can take there air cover apart piece by piece, and they will be farther in to the AA envelopes of the cites.

Another thing that I want to bring up is, while we may not want to Scry and Fry on the ork sub bosses yet, and hitting the landing craft in general is not worth it for how much it will tier out our Psykers, what if we had them target the landing craft that are transporting the Gargents? Would that be worth it?

On a more silly note, earlier some one said that the Svartalfheim are pretty much dwarves, and I started wondering who in the Trust could be the elves.

And I realized that it is Avernus.
Long lived? assuming something doesn't kill them​ Check.
Skilled but few solders? Check.
Strange and mystical powers? so many Psykers​ Check.
Strange cites full of wander? Check. It's not listed in the Biologis section, but if we wanted we could use the Illusionary Pines to help defend our cites, we could literally have magic trees as part of our cities defense​
Arrogant and condescending to others? Check.
We have to face it, we are the elves.
 
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Enjou Plan is one vote behind so if any of the lurkers want to vote that cool.
Adhoc vote count started by Nurgle on May 18, 2018 at 10:52 PM, finished with 93 posts and 17 votes.

  • [X] Plan Conservation
    -[X] None- Preserve your fighters for later.
    -[X] Fighters- This will reduce the number of fighters they have to defend future landings.
    -[X] Harassment Option 1: Remain back- This will preserve your harassment forces for later actions.
    -[X] Mine Option 1: None- This will save your mines for later use.
    -[X] Air Defence- Your Pyromancers and Teleknetics could turn their attention to taking out the Orks aircraft.
    [X] Plan Battle Start
    -[X] Low- This will result less damage but better exchange rates and preserving more of your airforce for the future. You would expect to lose around a quarter of your fighter with this option
    -[X] Targets of Opportunity- This will result the best exchange rates at the costs of not inflicting major damage on either force.
    -[X] Harassment Option 2: Deploy a quarter of your harassment forces close to landing sites. - This will allow you to start harassing the Ork Hordes shortly after they leave the landing zone, while preserving the majority of your light forces for later conflicts.
    -[X] Medium- The default option that balances damage for exchange rates and casualties.
    -[X] Mine Option 2: Use a Quarter of available mines- This will inflict some damage and provide some opportunities to your harassers while saving most of the mines for later use.
    -[X] Air Defence- Your Pyromancers and Teleknetics could turn their attention to taking out the Orks aircraft.
    -[X] Psyker Support - Your Diviners, Telepaths and Biomancers could support your ground and air forces, improving their impact and preserving their lives.
 
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