30, not 500.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
30, not 500.
Doomed Wombat
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At the moment yes.
Whether they develop mutations later on is unknown, especially given Avernus and the fact that geneseed is becoming more unstable overtime due to the lack of infusions from the Primarch.
Nah 30 Marines to start off with, but they had more geneseed as they'd been careful about preserving it.
- Location
- Leeds
I think Durin mentioned that after the war they had enough veterans to improve training time or something, rather than relying on the ones who'd survived the journey. Also they had a lot more geneseed to work with than before.
I find it doubtful from time spent without Primarch infusions. Guilliman's gene seed is incredibly stable. Like notedly so and up there with Dorn and Pertuabo.
Avernus influenced mutations though? Far more likely IMO.
Doomed Wombat
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That maybe the case, but nothing lasts forever.
Also Dorn's seed maybe stable, but its still missing two organs.
Sorry to ask but I'm going to need some sources specifically dealing with Guilliman's gene seed and it's stability over time.
Missing two organs it may be but it was perfect for what it was designed for and what we're achieving with Guilliman's geneseed.
Building a Legion.
Doomed Wombat
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Nothing on Ultramarines specifically, but the primarchs in general needed to be there to keep the things stable and at 100%.
Ultramarines are especially stable, but they can mutate either mentally black consoules, psychically, likely the silver skulls, physical deviations will also become more likely over time.
The Blood Angyels for example, also a typically stable line have also mutated.
Really now, I was always led to believe their flaws were present by the great crusade.
Doomed Wombat
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Theirs are weird.
The Red Thirst apparently started appearing in isolated cases post Ullanor leading Sanguinius to freak out and have any who had it executed while trying to figure out WTF was going on (apparently the 2 missing primarchs maybe linked into his fear to an extent.) However, the apparent cause of the Red Thirst (at least he claimed he was) was Khbanda and when he fought Sanguinius he caused the entire legion regardless of distance to gain the red thirst.
The Black Rage similarly was not active until Sanguinius was killed by Horus, the psycic trauma of which caused their geneseed to change.
Now of course whether or not they were always there and it was these events that activated it, or they appeared there artificially is unknown.
Its the same with the new mutation (in embers), as the Lamenter's certainly came into existence by outside intervention, but it's apparently spread to the rest of the legion to differing degrees of strength.
- Location
- Leeds
Frankly 40k lore is built out of exceptions to its own rules. I blame the need to make each codex more awesome than the last to drive sales.
- Location
- madison
I suspect the blood angels might have something unique about their psychic frequency that makes them more venerable to being attacked through it. Like angel steel and the sangintor are hinting that they may have more of a psychic bullshit thing going than most. So it would fit that it's more of an avenue of attack with them.
Doomed Wombat
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Doubtful, but possible.
Unless of course you count a generally high degree of physical fitness and nutrition to make someone an abhuman. (Milita work, and food seems to usually be plentiful in Trust space.) Slightly higher psyker numbers are also possible due to Avernite genes mixing in.
We're more likely to see individual planets developing individual strains of humanity, but those are usually minor. Midgardians apparently can store up nutrients much easier and more efficiently and Muspelheimers are much more heat resistant IIRC.
But, those are comparatively minor changes compared to things like the Catachanians or Avernites.
Angel steel in this verse doesn't need their blood, but you are correct.
Like most things with them it seems to go back to Sanguinius who was sort of half awake as a psyker. He was one like all Primarchs, but with the exceptions of Lorgar and Magnus none of them were active, but Sanguinius and Konrad were kinda half active, receiving visions and stuff.
I'd not be surprised if that left him more vulnerable to that kinda stuff, and meant that he affected his legion on a grander scale due to a stronger connection.
Doomed Wombat
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@MonkeyTypewriter dunno if you already knew this, but I did some quick research so to share with the rest of the thread (and potentially you)
The Sanguinor may have been given a proper origin story in the book "Herald of Sanguinius."
I'm fairly certain it expanded on an idea that was originally presented somewhere else, Sanguinius is swamped by everyone petitioning him as Emperor of the Secundus Imperium and so the captain of the Sanguinary guard Azkaellon gets paranoid about all these people getting close to his father (he was noted as being a bit possessive) and so proposes creating a stand in for him. Sanguinius agrees he can't sit on a throne all day so they developed the idea.
Azkaellon brought the Guard together told them and two of them nominated themselves. The rest left and the two drew lots the one who lost got killed by Azkaellon to preserve the other's identity (dunno how that works) and the winner, Aratron, had his face sealed in a golden mask and was known from then on only as the Sanguinor.
Now it would be unlikely that the current Sanguinor and Aratron are the same person, if not for Davin.
Davin was the world that hosted the Serpent's Lodge that corrupted Horus, its an important place and Sanguinius, Lion Guilliman and Konrad (then a prisoner) visited the world to see it for themselves as they tried to breach the ruin storm cutting them off from the rest of the Imperium. It was here that they crossed paths with the ancient and powerful Daemon Madail a Daemon of Chaos Undivided that had been wreaking havoc across the Imperium Secundus ever since the Ruin storm was thrown up.
Madail at some point was charged with corrupting them, and trapped Sanguinius within a portal on the very altar upon which Horus had been corrupted. He attempted to trick Sanguinius showing him a vision of emps congratulating him after defeating Horus however, Sanguinius realised that this was an illusion tempting him to take up the title of Emperor for himself and so struck the illusion down.
The illusion of course was Madail who abandoned trickery and resorted to force summoning his Daemonic hordes and bringing in his corrupted flagship the Strike Cruiser Veritas Ferrum (the ship also had one end of the portal he had set up to trap Sanguinius) and the rest of his support.
His offer was simple, take Horus's position as warmaster, or his son's would be doomed to the black rage (Sanguinius's visions had revealed the Rage to him.)
The two fought, but their battle was brought to a close by the reinforcements from Lion, Gulliman and the Sanguinary guard who broke into the Veritas Ferrum and broke the portal. Both Sanguinius and Madail were wounded and hanging onto the the portal as it broke up Veritas Ferrum exploding and Davin undergoing exterminatus.
However, the original Sanguinor sacrificed himself, trapped in a portal between the warp and reality upon a fulcrum of destiny while planet was then obliterated from orbit. This was a task that Sanguinius had set himself in the hopes of sparing the Blood Angels from the Black Rage without turning into a monster even worse than Horus as his visions suggested would happen to him if he survived the Horus Heresy, though realised in another vision that his sons would suffer the Black Rage on the event of his death in any case, however the Sanguinor stepped in wordlessly and stood for him, setting the example of the best that Blood Angels could possibly be, becoming a symbol much more than a "warrior of flesh and bone". Sanguinius also observed that he began transforming into a "golden angelic form" as he entered the portal.
This is likely the original origin of the Sanguinor...kinda cool I think.
The Sanguinor may have been given a proper origin story in the book "Herald of Sanguinius."
I'm fairly certain it expanded on an idea that was originally presented somewhere else, Sanguinius is swamped by everyone petitioning him as Emperor of the Secundus Imperium and so the captain of the Sanguinary guard Azkaellon gets paranoid about all these people getting close to his father (he was noted as being a bit possessive) and so proposes creating a stand in for him. Sanguinius agrees he can't sit on a throne all day so they developed the idea.
Azkaellon brought the Guard together told them and two of them nominated themselves. The rest left and the two drew lots the one who lost got killed by Azkaellon to preserve the other's identity (dunno how that works) and the winner, Aratron, had his face sealed in a golden mask and was known from then on only as the Sanguinor.
Now it would be unlikely that the current Sanguinor and Aratron are the same person, if not for Davin.
Davin was the world that hosted the Serpent's Lodge that corrupted Horus, its an important place and Sanguinius, Lion Guilliman and Konrad (then a prisoner) visited the world to see it for themselves as they tried to breach the ruin storm cutting them off from the rest of the Imperium. It was here that they crossed paths with the ancient and powerful Daemon Madail a Daemon of Chaos Undivided that had been wreaking havoc across the Imperium Secundus ever since the Ruin storm was thrown up.
Madail at some point was charged with corrupting them, and trapped Sanguinius within a portal on the very altar upon which Horus had been corrupted. He attempted to trick Sanguinius showing him a vision of emps congratulating him after defeating Horus however, Sanguinius realised that this was an illusion tempting him to take up the title of Emperor for himself and so struck the illusion down.
The illusion of course was Madail who abandoned trickery and resorted to force summoning his Daemonic hordes and bringing in his corrupted flagship the Strike Cruiser Veritas Ferrum (the ship also had one end of the portal he had set up to trap Sanguinius) and the rest of his support.
His offer was simple, take Horus's position as warmaster, or his son's would be doomed to the black rage (Sanguinius's visions had revealed the Rage to him.)
The two fought, but their battle was brought to a close by the reinforcements from Lion, Gulliman and the Sanguinary guard who broke into the Veritas Ferrum and broke the portal. Both Sanguinius and Madail were wounded and hanging onto the the portal as it broke up Veritas Ferrum exploding and Davin undergoing exterminatus.
However, the original Sanguinor sacrificed himself, trapped in a portal between the warp and reality upon a fulcrum of destiny while planet was then obliterated from orbit. This was a task that Sanguinius had set himself in the hopes of sparing the Blood Angels from the Black Rage without turning into a monster even worse than Horus as his visions suggested would happen to him if he survived the Horus Heresy, though realised in another vision that his sons would suffer the Black Rage on the event of his death in any case, however the Sanguinor stepped in wordlessly and stood for him, setting the example of the best that Blood Angels could possibly be, becoming a symbol much more than a "warrior of flesh and bone". Sanguinius also observed that he began transforming into a "golden angelic form" as he entered the portal.
This is likely the original origin of the Sanguinor...kinda cool I think.
- Location
- Berkeley
I don't think we're quite as likely to get gene seed mutations as the Imperium was anyway, for a couple reasons.
First, tech level. While many of the Apocathariums were probably quite skilled, I imagine the actual tools they had access to made extracting and storing it like doing surgery in a garage. Technically feasible, but no matter the skill level unintended consequences are more likely. We, on the other hand, are significantly more advanced tech-wise, even if our knowledge base with regards to geneseed might be a bit sub par.
Next is foundings. Canon information seems to suggest that this is a place where a LOT of mutations show up, and that aligns well with what we know in the Embers-verse about psychic frequencies and rituals. We aren't planning on really doing the massive foundings like the Imperium, so that means we're likely to get fewer mutations from that source.
Finally, there's chapter size. In real science, small populations are where you expect random or non-beneficial mutations to become prevalent, just due to simple mathematics. Of course, WH40k laughs in the face of real science as a matter of routine, but there's no reason why it shouldn't apply here specifically. This isn't a small chapter, though, so a random mutation becoming population-wide due to sheer chance is far less likely.
First, tech level. While many of the Apocathariums were probably quite skilled, I imagine the actual tools they had access to made extracting and storing it like doing surgery in a garage. Technically feasible, but no matter the skill level unintended consequences are more likely. We, on the other hand, are significantly more advanced tech-wise, even if our knowledge base with regards to geneseed might be a bit sub par.
Next is foundings. Canon information seems to suggest that this is a place where a LOT of mutations show up, and that aligns well with what we know in the Embers-verse about psychic frequencies and rituals. We aren't planning on really doing the massive foundings like the Imperium, so that means we're likely to get fewer mutations from that source.
Finally, there's chapter size. In real science, small populations are where you expect random or non-beneficial mutations to become prevalent, just due to simple mathematics. Of course, WH40k laughs in the face of real science as a matter of routine, but there's no reason why it shouldn't apply here specifically. This isn't a small chapter, though, so a random mutation becoming population-wide due to sheer chance is far less likely.
Doomed Wombat
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Kinda...
The Cursed founding is the poster child of this, but according to Death Watch chapters have a history of breeding/modifying their geneseed to try and fix flaws in it with very very little success with the occasional curse, weird radiation and no visible reason that we can figure out thrown into the mix.
You are right though I'm not 100% sure on the equipment front. In a lot of ways certainly and we've certainly got better machines for interacting with the geneseed, but we did need to get the extraction tools from the Blood Dragons.*
*Who if I recall correctly were supposed to be modified to be resistant to the Red Thirst in exchange for red scales on their skin in places...in the original concept Durin's likely tweaked it.
- Location
- madison
If that's it, if we progress far enough down the psychic resonance tech tree we might be able to eventually diagnose the issue. I suspect curing it would not be doable, but if we can observe the curses we might be able to mitigate the symptoms.
- Location
- Australia
@Durin, can you give examples like these except for Favoured Enemy?
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- The internet
Right, and assuming that he's what Durin is using, he's likely an Ascended God of some type. The good news is that its highly likely the Sanginour won't die unless he is killed. The bad news is that if you thought that the Abomination wants to kill Lin...
On the plus side, Astropathic binding should be absolutely viable as soon as Lin looks into it.
sabreFather
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- Location
- Land of Bears and Loggers AKA Oregon
Er, the Sanguinor is likely no more a god than (Pre-Abomination) Khaldor Draigo or any of the Living Saints. Actually, he might be in the same Cluster-Fuck as (Pre-Abomination) Draigo. And even if the Sanguinor DID ascend to Godhood, it's likely that due to Primarch Bullshit only those with Blood Angels Geneseed could be bound that way. Remember, the Emperor embodied Humanity as a whole, while the Primarchs only embodied their Gene-Sons. And even if that could be bypassed, he would also have to embody Psychic Communication (which the Emperor had by dint of being a mass of Shamans sharing a Meat Suit, so Psychic talk was the only way).
TL;DR
Sanguinor would need to be a God, who's portfolio was not restricted to Blood Angels, and had powerful/Long-Range Psychic Communication as a special ability; all to do what you suggest. More likely that we will find a random Corvid or Monkey on Avernus that provide such abilities as Familiars.
EDIT: Also, it would require Ridcully and our other High-Level Psykers more than Lin in this regard anyways.
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- Location
- Australia
@Durin, hellflame coral is able to hold warpfire. I recently got the idea to apply that to technology, making a flamer that shoots it or an axe that gets covered in it. In the case of the axe, would it count as a Force weapon or would it just count as a psy-active weapon and thus be no better against daemons than a mundane fiery axe?
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Yeah... you're just wrong I'm afraid. As long as he's a noncorrupted warp entity we can double the range of our Astropaths, minimum. Also, distinctly possible that he is a god since we know that Ascended Gods are usually extra powerful Daemon Princes.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
applying it to a flamer would be hard but a melee weapon would be doable. still needs a psyker to use though