So do you guys want to go for it? Throw the orks at the Slaaneshi with just enough warning to give them a proper fight.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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- Dancing on wires!
It may as well be infinite from our perspective though. Especially since those killed are just returned to the warp and can easily reenter reality again (being killed on a daemon world does much less damage to a Daemon than being killed in the regular materium)
Against other daemons who as have functionally infinite troops, especially with the withdrawal of favour from the Abomination.
Of course Valinor fell.
Daemon worlds however do not change God's hands on a regular basis.
- Location
- Texas, United States
I have an unrelated question to everything; why is Skitarii called Skitrii? Even singular it's Skitarius, so what's Skitrii mean? Furthermore on that Tech Guard is just another name for them so is Tech Guard just a generic 'down graded' non elite version of them for Embersverse?
Also, we almost have Avernite styled Titans. Titans! We have to name them Legio Inviolicum or something ridiculous like that when and if we make them.
Also, we almost have Avernite styled Titans. Titans! We have to name them Legio Inviolicum or something ridiculous like that when and if we make them.
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- Location
- Asia
There's already a name for them - Collegia Titanica.
Edit - oh you mean Titan Legion names. Yeah we'd have to find a suitable name for our Titan Legions.
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Doomed Wombat
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Legio Durus.
'Tis their current name.
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- Asia
We'd probably create more legions and spread them out among the Trust planets.
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- Texas, United States
Why would we limit ourselves to one Legion? Surely the rest of the branches that make up the Trust's Mechanicus would want 'personal' ones for status if nothing else. Titan legions are prestigious things. A bit like Knights really.
- Location
- Leeds
Thats a shame.
Too bad we're mostly fighting orcs.
No problem, they can just live in the railways.
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Eh, building and maintaining Titan legion takes a lot of advanced resources, and most of Trust advanced resource production takes place in non-Mechanicus worlds (Muspel/Nilf/Svartalfheim) or Avernus. Vanaheim AdMech are using theirs to build/maintain ships and shipyards, Midgard Mechanicus are busy supplying its massive armies (and sizeable fleet), Asgard has smallest population in general so they have small AdMech population as well and they are focused maintaining the Knights and Jotunheim doesn't have significant Mechanicus presence either. Funnily enough Alfheim with its entire continent dedicated to industry is the most likely candidate to start another Titan legion. Fear the wrath of the Legio Turnipus!
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GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Just going to throw my two cents in here, but you do remember that the reason most Admech high end stuff is rare and restricted to only a few Forge Worlds(like Ryza's various high end plasma technologies including Phase Plasma Fusils, Graia's warp capable orbital assets and Lucius's personal super alloy, teleporting Titans and hollowed out planet tech, just to name a few of the more famous examples) is because said Forge Worlds jealously horde and restrict the knowledge of such technology to themselves alone in guildish power plays, right?
Where I'm going with this, is that if Embers Callamus is anything like Deus Ex Mechanicus Callamus or Legio Fulminata's Karatus Technomancy, and the Forge World's rapid rise to power strongly suggests that it is, is that one of the most radical behaviors its going to encourage(read enforce) amongst all the lesser Forge Worlds subordinate to it is actually sharing and trading technology. Even without the Forge World's upper elite fostering a environment of learning and innovation(which it totally does), all those Forge Worlds in those 40 sectors are going to be trading and spreading all the high end technologies they used to keep to themselves(which possibly includes nanotech weaponry and construction, Gloriana class battleships and lots of other Great Crusade or even DAoT era goodies going by DEM and LF,) and producing them industrially.
Sure it should still be lower then the Imperial Trust thanks to all the STCs we've found, but being only one level above the average Forge World seems a bit low balling for them considering they were rivalling Ryza before the Imperium fell and has spent the last few millennia building and absorbing other Forge Worlds into their sway.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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- Dancing on wires!
To add to what @DeusFerreus said
1. The Legio Durus can be all potential titan legions in Trust space, in the age of the Imperium the Legio was spread out between 3 different areas, Atlas their home, Dannaan a Fortress world and Avernus a holy world. Having more branches in other areas that are just under the Legio Durus for centralisation reasons before anything else is very likely.
2. There's no such thing as "personal" titans unless you are unbelievably influential, the Titanicus is only answerable to one being, the Fabricator General. Tranth and Lin are likely the only other beings who have that level of influence in the Trust. Even Palidus can't order them if they don't want them.
3. The main reason that we're likely to be the main base for the Titans at least for a long while is two fold.
3a. We're the most holy world to the admech. Like seriously I'm pretty sure in terms of holiness the only comparison is Mars. To the admech who view the titans as the living idols of the Omnisah this is a big deal.
3b. We're also the only world with in place infrastructure to make them quickly. We're the main source of the Knights in the Trust worlds for a reason and we've got the admech most experienced in their construction and maintenance, as well as already having the facilities to maintain and repair titans thanks to the Legio Durus basing themselves in our forge cities.
You are indeed correct, however there are two main things you must bare in mind.
1. Even in canon important forge worlds are the ones with the super interesting techs, Ryza, Graia and Lucius are all major major forge worlds. Most forge worlds are like Atlas and the Lathes, they do have interesting unique pieces of tech, but they're not game changing. Atlas for example was known for its fantastic Landship class vehicles and the Lathes for having grav tech and a lot of unique metallurgy from the unique gravity of their moons, which can't be replicated. Things like the (potential) Gloriana schematics such as were found in Sigma temp ten in Deus Ex as I recall are very unlikely in either canon or Embers.
2. Durin has very much been more conservative in terms of crazy tech than Arankor (who as I recall admitted part of it was due to a lack of familiarity with the setting. Not that either is a bad thing though. Both have unique challenge
) For example Durin has come down hard on any attempts to introduce nano tech at the moment. I'd be surprised if Callamus didn't have the Nanyte Blaster for example.3. Durin's also been quite clear that 1 bit of really advanced tech isn't enough to move up a tech level. I'd argue that things like the Quantum computers, Angyel Steel ect. are massive advances compared to the norm and are likely the kind of things that count at a much higher level of technology than what we are stated to have. This makes sense because as far as I can tell tech levels are more meant to give an indication of when things become common for a civilisation rather than show the max tech a civilisation possess (we likely have several bits of level 20-25 bits of tech such as the Super Exitus rifle). If that makes any sense?
Sorry both for waffling so much.
- Location
- Texas, United States
Let's clear some things up, personal meant in terms of collection of organizations. Not people, not representatives, nor every governor having one at their beak and call. I said 'branch's' of the Admech, I don't understand where the interpretation that I meant this was Titanfall came from.
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- Location
- Asia
I agree that Avernus is probably the only planet that's going to be making titans. But it does make sense to station titans in other planets so that we aren't putting all our eggs in one basket.
If Avernus is engulfed in another warp storm or something similar then the Trust would lose access to all of their titans.
For this reason I believe we should be stationing at least a handful of titans outside Avernus, along with the associated repair and maintenance facilities.
So overall forming another titan legion isn't a bad idea.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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- Dancing on wires!
Terrified...no.
Hopping mad yes.
I wasn't making that accusation. The current branches of the admech are very unlikely to support their own legions, its why I kept going back to the Fabricator general.
To try and put it simply, in the near future I find it very unlikely that any of the other two worlds who have the numbers or possible technical skill to make Titans (Vanaheim and Midgard) would even consider making their own legion. Partial because
A. There is no need the Legio Durus is already a thing
B. They're both really busy with their own thing.
If they were their own forge worlds with their own independent fabricator generals this would be different, but they are not. Their fabricator generals the the subordinates of the overall general of the Nine worlds Scott.
Positioning Titans on other worlds isn't what I'm arguing would be unlikely to happen, I'm arguing it'd be unlikely for them to make an entire new legion for it.
As I already stated the Legio Durus was spread out over three worlds we know of (Atlas, Daanan and Avernus) we even recovered some of the ones from Daanan.
A whole legion in one place is actually really rare, it usually more efficient to spread them out.
In short spread em all over the place, but don't create more headaches for the bureaucrats by making a new legion every time, with a new Lord Princeps.
We will eventually create a new legion, but its the same way we'll likely split the Guard eventually (or not as the situation demands).
- Location
- Asia
You have a point but if we are permanently stationing titans on other planets along with repair and maintenance facilities, then they are de facto independent legions. We might as well just make the whole thing official by giving them their own name but I guess it would depend on the Mechanicus politics.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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This is one time where I don't see why that would be the case.
Dannaan was 500 light years away from Atlas the main base of the Legio Durus, but they were still the Legio Durus. Same with Avernus.
Stationing a detachment on Midgard or Vanaheim, which are only a dozen light years away at most and declaring them an independent legion even in name only seems excessive and adds unneeded bureaucracy.
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- Asia
Yeah but we don't have the same level of long range communication and travel ability that IoM had.
So dispersing and decentralising makes sense for us, especially since we are pushing into Valinor Sector and are probably going to merge with Blood Dragons in the future.
I believe we have already gone over the benefits of stationing titans in other planets, so I won't repeat it.
Looking at the map below, I think we'd be well served by stationing titans in the subsector capitals or failing that at the closest Core World to each subsector.
This is my attempt at creating a map of the Imperial Trust and nearby polities of note. Distances are approximately to scale.
Note the distance between incoming ork WAAAAGH and Valinor attack.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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I understand the benefits perfectly well, but our level of communication is perfectly adequate to keep in constant contact with the rest of the Trust between the normal Neo Astropaths and the Librarians secreted throughout the Trust and that's before factoring in that Legions were frequently out of contact with its different elements for centuries to millennia at a time as they were frequently on campaigns.
We're also not going to go for Valinor in the near future (The worlds are corrupted messes) and Blood Dragons I believe integration has been tabled due to the immense task of integrating with them.
And again, let me repeat.
I am not arguing against placing them on other worlds.
Sorry...
I am arguing against them being turned into different Legions as there is no need to do so, it just creates unneeded flab and should only be done if we intend to make create the facilities needed to make Titans rather than simply repair them.
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Chaos (or rather Tzeentch) is terrified of of us in the sense one would be terrified of a monkey in a nuclear reactor's control room. The Changer of Ways is not scared of the humans currently squaring on Avernus. He is scared of what Old One Weapons we might unleash through sheer carelessness and ignorance
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That's an arbitrary qualification IMO. Just because we are fine now doesn't mean that we won't be running into problems as we expand. We are purifying the world's in Valinor with try intent to inhabit them and we will eventually start merging with the Blood Dragons.
We would eventually need to create more legions or come up with better communication technology.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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Sigh...
Ok first our communications network is actually really good evidenced by the fact that as the last astropaths are dead and we have not received any visible debuffs to our diplomacy. While improving our coms is a constant goal, what we currently have will become better and better as more neoastropaths are trained and the ones currently active gain veterancy with the network becoming denser and denser with more and more Librarians being trained as well who can handle the really long range communications. In the hypothetical scenario of the Blood Dragon's integrating expect that number to jump drastically again.
Second the whole point of having additional legions for us is so that if we can't predict a incoming force or we have to fight a war on more than one front there's always a force of titans ready to assist. Better comms don't help there.
Third I do not expect us to expand much in the near future. While we are purifying the worlds I do not expect to be finished before Lin dies as even light corruption will take decades to vanish and the low success rates of the actions and again, I believe the Blood Dragon integration has been put very much on the back burner.
Thus there is certainly reason to place a detachment of Titans in Deadman's rock as it is the furthest Subsector capital away from the core worlds where we cannot easily move help too. In time too that may turn into a titan legion of its own, but in this case anticiapting the issue is a waste of time.
There is no need for this hypothetical garrison to be its own titan legion, we don't yet have a full legion yet in any case nor do I see there being an especial need for us to make extra. We're not bound by a feudal structure like Callamus, we are significantly more centralised and as I noted have much better communication. I see no reason why we can't make additional changes to the organisation of the Legio Durus like the Guard did to itself. However if it becomes more efficient to create an entirely new legion that can be done too, but that is almost certainly not going to happen for the next fifty to one hundred years. (There's at least 5 different stages to designing an improved Warlord equivalent I believe. This is assuming each only takes a decade and we succeed each.)
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- Australia
It's in the OP. Check Non-Volume Omakes>Must Read Omakes. It's at the top of the list.
What, why? Like, why nanotech in specific? 40k isn't a setting that lauds nanotechnology as the be all and end all of technology. It's just another tech. Some examples of the tech are super powerful, such as the nanyte blaster, while other examples are more pedestrian and common, like the Very Rare Autosanguine implant. In this sense it's no different to any other technology, even las.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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Not sure, I just remember him being against creating nano tech omakes during the two big DAoT tech rushes (the Core and the Ruin).
We do have em I believe, its just not in a way that's especially useful for large scale manufacturing or industry.
We'd have to ask him though he may have changed his mind or be willing to reveal his reasons.
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- Asia
I concur.
I am mostly thinking of the long term when I say more legions would be necessary.
Maybe it's a pessimistic outlook, but I feel we'd be forced to expand constantly ( in the long term ) due to the number and strength of our foes. I guess we could from a coalition of Imperium successors which would somewhat negate the need to expand but I am not too hopeful.