Honestly, I don't see trading Quartok tech being approved by the High Council, at least not all of it anyways, and even if we do try to manage to push it through we're going to end up suffering reputation damage with the conservative factions again. Because you know they're going to be against giving any significant technology of any origin to psychic xenos.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Australia
I'm pretty sure the conservatives are a lot more lax when it comes to alien tech, so they'll only be as upset by, for example, giving level 4 quartok tech as level 2 human tech. It wouldn't anger the conservatives any more than giving the base amount of human tech, but it gives us much greater advantages. If max level quartok tech damages our reputation too much, we'll just give lower level quartok tech. Waiting for the High Council is still the best way to go.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Well I think they'll figure it out in short order anyway if we don't hand it over.
You say this, but Avernite species seem to be rather sedentary.
I mean it makes sense seeing how dangerous their world is, but unless you can bypass the world and go into space I don't think they'll be meeting with anyone in the near future.
So while it is possible they would spread it, I think it more likely that their main points of contacts with other peoples who could use it are us so we can control their interactions to a great degree. For example the people who will likely facilitate communications between the Nyne and Andres's other empire is going to be us.
Meanwhile in the area the other options they have are the Sirens who can't use most of it, the Trolls who currently are at stone age and the Mycenids who likely don't want it either being sentient fungus.
They may meet another species under ground, but unless their hierarchies spread a lot more I don't expect it to be soon.
- Location
- Leicester UK
I was thinking more spreading among their own race rather than other races. Even for Avernite species the Nynye are noted as being powerful, what with the Titants and all, I dont want to underestimate them now and regret it 3 or 4 centuries down the line.
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I don't think you're considering the full implications here. Giving advanced technology to xenos is UPLIFTING, regardless of where the tech comes from, and all that entails. Including access to space, and unlike with the Quartok we don't have a treaty that keeps them ground bound. Even Tech Level 3 (20th Century Tech) gives them the level of technology to start putting satellites into orbit. Further, it gives them the tools to start researching technology at a faster pace - why none of the races of Avernus have managed to research advanced technology is something I don't know, but I do know that once you've got a certain level then further advancements become easier due to the tools available.
It also needs to be remembered that while the Nynye are friendly now, that isn't necessarily going to be the status quo forever. If they had sufficient tech to colonize other planets, I could see them being resentful if we got in the way of any efforts, or it just having political consequences if they tried.
Further, once they've got the technology there's no guarantee they won't share it with others - you can't put the genie back in the bottle once you've let it out.
In several ways tech sharing is more risky than the soul trade, because if we stop the soul trade then the Sirens haven't really gained any permanent advantages. Any tech we give to the Nynye
I'm fairly comfortable with Tech Level 2 (19th Century), since that's basically steam engines and very primitive guns. I think they wouldn't likely advance much farther than that, and if anything might try to use their alchemy to advance it in some fashion instead of using traditional technology. With just the basic knowledge we would get in exchange, we could eventually research our own advances ourselves.
- Location
- madison
I'm ok with going up to level 2 tech. It's really not that much, epically compared to what they can already do. I'm mostly in favor of going above that with quartock tech, though we'd need to run that by the high council, and I'm ambivalent about how much political capital it would be worth. Though we may want to ask for a deal where they can't sell the tech themselves, but if someone is interested they can put them in touch with us for some payment. Not super affordable but trading tech for psychic arts is likely going to be a big thing for us, and selling a tech base once and then watching it propagate to everyone would suck.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Actually we asked.
They are not interested in any technology that would get them into space. They do not want warp drives, geller fields, even rockets. They don't care. I mean they'd have the ability to make them, but according to them they wouldn't.
They are behaving within the normal bounds we already established that being unless its to fight chaos or possibly necrons they will fight to keep themselves on the planet and react angrily to attempts to take them off it.
This handily removes the main problem of tech spreading, namely that getting to another polity to trade with is very very difficult on Avernus unless you can cut out the problem of everything in between being out for blood. Flight doesn't cut it, you need to go out of atmosphere to travel that distance safely. Another thing that is in the way of potential tech spreading is that Avernite species seem rather adverse to their stuff getting into other native people's hands, i.e. the Sirens and their runes. They're fine trading them to us and even trading them to other humans, but they were much less happy with trading them to other peoples.
It also removes the problem of colonisation, they seem to really not give a shit and that seems unlikely to change.
However to double check
@Durin
1. Are the Nyne in anyway interested in leaving Avernus for any reason beyond fighting chaos and potentially necrons?
2. Do they expect this to change if they received the ability to do so (go into space) without us being needed to do so?
3. What would they do if we attempted to force them to leave.
4. Do they even want any techs that would allow them to leave the planet such as warp drives, space based geller fields ect.
5. Do they have any restrictions on trading their alkhestry either to species off Avernus or other peoples
- Location
- Australia
This was addressed in my Sakarians omake. If you feel it's insufficient or an outright bad explanation, I can change it and ask Durin to confirm the retcon. I'll quote the relevant part, but here's the tl;dr first:
Slow tech growth is because of reliance on psychic powers, insufficient resources dedicated to tech growth, and wildlife disruption. A whole crapload of knowledge is lost whenever civilisations die (much like in 40k as a whole). Tech growth and information exchanges are very closely related, and information exchange is severely hampered by the wildlife. Tech growth does indeed lead to faster tech growth.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I'm really not keen on us trading any tech at all, Quartok or Human.
The Conservatives have some good points.
e: I'm also strongly opposed to us even bringing up the matter in High Council. That'll just give more propaganda weapons to the Conservative Mechanicus, rightfully so and also slowing down the Reformation, which is way more important than Alkehestry.
The Conservatives have some good points.
e: I'm also strongly opposed to us even bringing up the matter in High Council. That'll just give more propaganda weapons to the Conservative Mechanicus, rightfully so and also slowing down the Reformation, which is way more important than Alkehestry.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
2. one salvo for your fleet, several for a portion of your fleet
1. ask the quartok
2. yes
3. no
1. at the moment no
2. no, and all potions have negative side effects if overused. if you drank to strength potions in quick succession you are more likely to poison yourself then anything else
how often you can take them before suffering from side effects.
1. I am not player
2. not appreciably
1. no
2. probebly not
3. unknown, fight?
4. no
5. no, well only if it is a good deal
Ok, here's another possible trade for potions:
All Master Potions for Heroes (50)
Death's Hand Poison for Last Hunters (40)
Journeymen Potions of Healing, Toughness, and Sight for Last Hunters (18)
Journeyman Potions of Healing and Rest for Primaris and Grandmasters (18)
Apprentice Potions of Sight for Life Guard (20)
Apprentice Potions of Strength and Rest for Last Hunters (4)
Thoughts?
All Master Potions for Heroes (50)
Death's Hand Poison for Last Hunters (40)
Journeymen Potions of Healing, Toughness, and Sight for Last Hunters (18)
Journeyman Potions of Healing and Rest for Primaris and Grandmasters (18)
Apprentice Potions of Sight for Life Guard (20)
Apprentice Potions of Strength and Rest for Last Hunters (4)
Thoughts?
- Location
- Australia
Why Rest? I don't think there's yet been a situation where Last Hunters have suffered from fatigue. They're pretty indefatigable, which makes sense given that they're supposed to be mock Assassins.
EDIT: Furthermore, Last Hunters are assassins, not warriors. They're meant to kill, not hold the line, so Journeyman Strength and Apprentice Healing makes more sense.
I only included those to because there's nothing else I can do with the 4 remaining credits. If nothing else it'll keep them fresh if they're doing a stakeout, and let them punch harder if they have to get in a melee fight.
I could get a low level poison instead, if that would be preferred.
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
Keep in mind that this trade deal is not set in stone. If we desire, we could simply trade for new items. So, lets try out a bit of everything.
5 Potions * 3(Journeyman quality) * 6 (Heroes/Grandmasters/Last Hunters) = 90
Willdrainer poison for 1/2 of Last Hunters = 20
Death's Head poison for the other 1/2 of Last Hunters = 20
Strengthsapper, Fireblood, Slow, and Bleed for our Heroes = 16
Total: 146
On the turn afterwards, we would have a very good idea of what we like, and what we do not need.
- Location
- Australia
1. My first recommendation is to swap the quality of the Healing and Strength. You currently have Journeyman Healing and Apprentice Strength, but I think it should instead be Journeyman Strength and Apprentice Healing. I think you missed that in my post. Sorry if you didn't.
2. Skitarii Rangers can continuously move for months without resting to kill their target. There was a Vindicare Assassin who waited in the same place for 6 years just to kill a single target. If the Last Hunters are anywhere even in sight of those examples, they very much do not need Potions of Rest.
3. A poison works, but Durin said that potions can be exported so that may be worthy of consideration.
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
Which is why I plan on sampling everything. Afterward, we simply discard what we do not care for, and we have a good body of evidence to present to the Trust why Alkahestery is a worthwhile trade.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
to be more accurate you can produce a salvo for all of your ships OR multiple for some of your ships
also as a warning Vortex shell are unstable and reduce the HP of any ship equipped with them to represent detonations from incoming fire
they are a double edged and very expensive weapon
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
If their ammunition is depleted, is their HP restored? Because I think we at least can still out-range the orks, since their blessing affects their direct combat power and armor/piercing than anything else.
Also, do we have any idea how much Death's Head poison we would need to kill a Magma Wyrm? Or is something like that too large to be poison in a combat relevant timeframe?
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So can we put all the vortex on the stealth ships and give the stealth fleet the ability to ability to ship kill ork capital ships and hulks?
Healing is included at Journeyman because that's included in what Durin said would be useful for Witch Hunters, whereas Strength was a lower priority. I imagine that's because you don't want to get into melee with a psyker if you can avoid it.