The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Like I said, minor psykers are the ones that consist of the witch sniffers since there are far more of them and can cover a lot of ground and those guys would more than likely be useless against the high level psykers and would be too dangerous to confront by themselves hence why they do not directly confront said psykers themselves. If an order is founded it would more than likely consist of the more powerful psykers.



The reason to hide is so that they don't just alert the potential city block busting psykers which could either lead them to running away or trying to snipe them if they happen to see the witch sniffer first. There is a reason why people like the inquisition doesn't advertise their jobs to everyone. Also imagine that finding psyker while not being noticed may not be as hard as you think and/or they are jus trained to be stealthy about it.
To the first.

Applying the logic that minor psykers are useless against chaos that would mean we shouldn't be sending either normal humans against them or the regular minor battle psykers.

Skill offsets the power imbalance as chaos psykers are rarely skilled. The problems are the ones that are.

To the second, if they're corrupted then it doesn't really matter whether they're hidden or not the psyker is going to blow anyway. Given that the sniffers have to find as many psykers as they can as quick as possible I can't imagine why they'd hide and slow themselves down, especially when they've all got giant staffs. Kind of a give away.

The inquisition is usually cloak and dagger for very different reasons.

To settle this as we're getting no where really.

@PurposefulZephyr I'll respond in a sec, but there's kind of a lot.

@Durin
1. Do the Witch Sniffers (lead by Aria) or battle psykers currently fulfil an equivalent role to the Witch Hunters when dealing with psykers, or would founding an order dedicated to it be an improvement?
 
So I think priorities for Tranth coming up should be to finish the Well of Ure as well as research the factory ship.

It would be nice to be able to send a factory ship with the expedition.
 
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-Increasing the awareness of cults and ruinous influences. It exists here, so why not provide simple training on how to behave when a friend invites you to an odd group, or what to watch out for when your family member starts acting weird.
-Mandatory check ups, for everyone. Sure, there are a lot of people, but even a partial implementation makes it harder for an obvious cultist to hide.
-Increasing welfare and support for poorest, jobless, those who lost their families in a single night due to wildlife attacks, etc. Again- pathological families are more likely to fall to chaos. A healthy mind has fever cracks for literal evil to slip through.
1. Already done. In fact its been done for ages.
2. That seems counter productive to therapy and even then there's not much we can do. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't incentives to make people go and those that really need it are made to go nor do I think avernites are so prideful that they wouldn't especially when it was created and sponsored by the Govenor. However, I think you're not noticing the possible back fire of a cultist infecting his pysician who goes on to infect more psychologists. Its a risk now of course though.
3. Dude avernus is the best save Muspelheim in terms of social security nets. Poor as shit for us is middle class by midgard standards. the poorest have free good quality food as a standard every day, their children are educated to the highest levels with excellent scholarships again for free, there is no unemployment as between their education and the constant death rate there's always options somewhere and of course there's the military and our orphanages and health care is the beyond the best. There are very few practical ways we can improve our social security more than it already is, we have a universal basic income IIRC and more.

I honestly don't think that's the case with behavior. I mean:
-Wouldn't spiritually inclined people in hopeless situations seek support in faith?
-Wouldn't chronically ill, hypochondriac or severely wounded people more often (subconsciously) seek protection from Nurgle?
-Wouldn't people heavily involved fighting circles far to Khorne more easily than a lonely housewife?
-Doesn't a crime-ridden neighborhood invite drug dealers, which mainly follow Slaneesh?
-Creative people in competitive environments (e.g. high-technology businesses) sound like perfect Tzeentch followers.
Sure, there are many varied characteristics, but that far in the future, statistical tools and computing power should be enough to find out correlations that can be actually applied, if people bothered to find them.
We already have tools which allow some impressive characterization of massive communities now. 40k years in the future, in a near-totalitarian state? Should have plenty of data to work with.
How about their holy numbers and symbols? Image recognition to find things similar enough to tainted symbols, and basic search engines to find large quantities of a singular tainted number.
Especially considering that we have hordes of magical superhumans trying to find those people. At this point their experience alone could work as a practical basis for making of theoretical models.

But, none of those are indicative of anything.

A person who seeks support in faith is usually just seeking support in that especially on Avernus where people are very pious. If Avernus still had drug dealers then they can just be drug dealers, they're not always slaaneshi. If they're involved in fighting then they're not automatically Khorn bait, they could just be doing it to blow of steam.

The gods embody certain characteristics, but people possessing them is not indicative of them falling to that god. You can draw plenty of correlations me and my friends did. Bite us in the backside hard.

If we applied theoretical models of behaviour of possible chaos infection on such vague characteristics and behaviours then our potential cultists suddenly is the entire human population of the galaxy and that clearly isn't right.

There are much more specific things we look for, but they're not perfect either for instance

Abomination: Deference to authority, unthinking.
Khorne: More irrational anger and rage.
Nurgle: Jolliness and at a hidden stage very good health (Nurgle can sneak extremely well its actually among the best at it)
Tzeench: Extreme optimism, always has a plan
Slaanesh: Overly perfectionist/over indulgent.

More specific, but still not great. And of course then add in Chaos Undivided.

Basically there's things to watch out for and there are correlations that can be drawn, but they're for things that should not be relied upon (all the examples I gave can just be normal regular people and in every 100,000 times they are just that.)

As for the other two
1. The image recognition is an old trick, though whether we have to do it manually or whether our systems are well enough protected that we can work without them I dunno.
2. We don't have search engines. We don't even have an internet. It'd be infected irreparably an hour. Still if I get what you mean looking for concentrations of things like the number 6, I'd be surprised if that wasn't done automatically and places that have lots of a god's special number are certainly monitored.
 
The general rule for dealing with cults is that if it's easy and obvious we're already doing it, and if it promises to be a 'magic bullet' it has a fatal flaw.

Obviously there are some exceptions to the first rule (most notably specific implementation of radically new technology or extremely rare abilities), but as far as theorycrafting an improvement to our anti-cultist efforts our options tend to be ruinously expensive (such as warding for the full population) or of the nature of 'take every anti-cult/corruption option we can, especially long term ones'.

The success in figuring out the Void Abacus is excellent combined with the Roskilde decode. If we equip the fleet we send with them it should cut the travel time for the round trip down to a hair over three years.
 
3. Dude avernus is the best save Muspelheim in terms of social security nets. Poor as shit for us is middle class by midgard standards. the poorest have free good quality food as a standard every day, their children are educated to the highest levels with excellent scholarships again for free, there is no unemployment as between their education and the constant death rate there's always options somewhere and of course there's the military and our orphanages and health care is the beyond the best. There are very few practical ways we can improve our social security more than it already is, we have a universal basic income IIRC and more.
Okay, you correct. I think I forgot that. It's just hard to imagine, I guess- in the grim dark future of 40k, the hell world of Avernus is literally an utopia of sorts, if you don't count the constant danger people live in.
If we applied theoretical models of behaviour of possible chaos infection on such vague characteristics and behaviours then our potential cultists suddenly is the entire human population of the galaxy and that clearly isn't right.
I might have phrased that wrong, so let me put in another way:
Knowing character traits, environmental cues and other data about a person or a community can be used to increase the efficiency of finding a cult.
Such vague observations are near useless on their own, but when you layer them together, you can pinpoint areas of higher-risk, on which one can focus their efforts on first.
A pious person is not an Abomination follower. But a pious, traditional person with a perfectionist streak and a fondness of hierarchy is simply more likely to be one.
It's not a certainty, and you can never be sure of a person being influenced unless you examine them closely, but it's basically another roll modifier.
2. That seems counter productive to therapy and even then there's not much we can do. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't incentives to make people go and those that really need it are made to go nor do I think avernites are so prideful that they wouldn't especially when it was created and sponsored by the Govenor. However, I think you're not noticing the possible back fire of a cultist infecting his pysician who goes on to infect more psychologists. Its a risk now of course though.
The thing is- psychotherapists generally have to be certified and trained. Both the selection of right candidates and specialized training (which here would include protection against chaotic influences) decreases the chance of a person falling.
Assuming here you are saying that psychologists pose a vector for spreading chaos- while the 'quality' of transmission would be great, actual chance of converting an Avernite psychologist should be incredibly small.
Besides that, a cultist would have greater effect by trying to convert a news broadcaster or other not-so-pious public person.
The general rule for dealing with cults is that if it's easy and obvious we're already doing it, and if it promises to be a 'magic bullet' it has a fatal flaw.

Obviously there are some exceptions to the first rule (most notably specific implementation of radically new technology or extremely rare abilities), but as far as theorycrafting an improvement to our anti-cultist efforts our options tend to be ruinously expensive (such as warding for the full population) or of the nature of 'take every anti-cult/corruption option we can, especially long term ones'.
Honestly I just wondered if there's a middle way, where the solution would be simply to pour more resources into it. Normally there's no need, as things are good enough, but the problem of fallen psykers makes it not enough.
I just wondered if instead of "more dakka" we could get "more doctors", since they are faster (because they decrease a chance of a person falling, even if only slightly).
That and I thought there was more room left to improve, outside the superhuman magical technologies.
So you are right, completely in fact. Was just explaining myself.
 
Okay, you correct. I think I forgot that. It's just hard to imagine, I guess- in the grim dark future of 40k, the hell world of Avernus is literally an utopia of sorts, if you don't count the constant danger people live in.
It kind of is, but remember it works mostly because of the wildlife.

Keeps down corruption (the normal kind) so we don't have too and means unemployment is a non issue among other things.

I might have phrased that wrong, so let me put in another way:
Knowing character traits, environmental cues and other data about a person or a community can be used to increase the efficiency of finding a cult.
Such vague observations are near useless on their own, but when you layer them together, you can pinpoint areas of higher-risk, on which one can focus their efforts on first.
A pious person is not an Abomination follower. But a pious, traditional person with a perfectionist streak and a fondness of hierarchy is simply more likely to be one.
It's not a certainty, and you can never be sure of a person being influenced unless you examine them closely, but it's basically another roll modifier.
The problem with that is that all of those things apply to so many people that it becomes useless.

We cannot check all of them on the assumption they might be cultists as in all likelihood few if any of them are.

We need more to go on than their personality, so we presumably cross reference with hundreds of other factors like loss of life recently in their life, prior psych evaluations ect. but again these are not perfect and even if a person hits all the signs of being a cultist they still are not necessarily one. Generally one that's so obvious is more suspicious in my experience as generally even a khornate will try for some subterfuge until the gig is up.

But, as Reynal said, if it obvious to us we're probably already doing it (lord knows Jane's got the experience first as an Arbiter then as an Agent).

I personally found out how bad the assumptions of personality traits were during DH. What a mess.

As an aside perfectionist isn't IIRC abominite its Slaaneshi.

The thing is- psychotherapists generally have to be certified and trained. Both the selection of right candidates and specialized training (which here would include protection against chaotic influences) decreases the chance of a person falling.
Assuming here you are saying that psychologists pose a vector for spreading chaos- while the 'quality' of transmission would be great, actual chance of converting an Avernite psychologist should be incredibly small.
Besides that, a cultist would have greater effect by trying to convert a news broadcaster or other not-so-pious public person.
I didn't say it was a great chance, but it increases more if you force everyone to have sessions.

A cultist in cover can talk with a psychologist, they're much less likely to do so with a big name news broadcaster.

I just wondered if instead of "more dakka" we could get "more doctors", since they are faster (because they decrease a chance of a person falling, even if only slightly).
Unfortunately we've got the max number of doctors we can. We're pretty much at max capacity for doctor production from both secular and ecclesiastical institutes and now the order of restoration is in there too.

Only thing we can really improve is the services...hell really that applies to everything we've got in our social security net as far as I can tell.

Problem there is that improving them in that regard costs more than we can spend.
 
Alter Fleet Composition- After seeing the Imperial Trust warships tested to a level they have never been before Admiral Sarnow has some alterations to make to the Avernite Fleet composition. In particular he wishes to make your main line of battle consist of Heavy Cruisers escorted by Escort Cruisers, which have proven to be far more durable then lighter ships. While this would be more expansive and make your fleet rely on Vanaheim's shipyards to a greater extent it would better suit your fleets purpose.

With the moron that is currently in charge of Vanaheim unless we want to constantly have our ordered ships finish late on level of DECADES. We need to expand the number of our ship yards and make sure all of them can handle at least Cruiser sized ships. With one yard being able to handle something about the size of the Well, and battleships we'll be set.
 
Okay for next diplomatic action how do people feel about asking the Eldar for Webway access so that we can start trading tech to other larger human polities?
 
Okay for next diplomatic action how do people feel about asking the Eldar for Webway access so that we can start trading tech to other larger human polities?
What about Webway access so we can get closer to Roskilde, potentially shaving years off our journey?
Both run into the same problems we've had before.

1. We need to talk to the high council to organise it since its a Trust thing
2. We actually need something to make them give us access for reasons that have been spoken on before.

My recommendation was Ridcully scanning for the DE )specifically holes in their defences) so the Eldar can punk em, helps everybody really.
 
For the last three years Signe has been overseeing the removal of the dozen Chaos Battleships embedded in Dis. This has been a major undertaking, requiring colossal cranes, massive winches and a choir of powerful telekinetics. However after much work, and several near disasters, she has successfully dragged them out of Dis, though not very far. Given that one of the first actions taken was to cover up the dark signs branded on the outside of the warships and that several hundred Siren warding experts have volunteered to keep the daemons trapped within the ships this will be enough to have a major impact on cult numbers in Dis.

Any reason we're not having the Siren treat those POSSESSED ships as an all you can eat daemon buffet? Just like early in the quest someone was eating daemons right out of Chaos Space Marine weapons.
 
Any reason we're not having the Siren treat those POSSESSED ships as an all you can eat daemon buffet? Just like early in the quest someone was eating daemons right out of Chaos Space Marine weapons.
Because as we just investigated this very turn the things eating the daemons are avernite warp entities
Archmagos Biologis Maximal spent a year watching the corrupted items outside Dis in order to determine what was purifying them. He found that while there was no visible cause that the psykers assigned to him were able to detect minor Warp entities that were in some way draining the power within the items.

It seems that when the daemon is protected by a shell of material stuff the Sirens cannot eat them.
 
Eh...he maybe more reasonable now what with the orks completely egging him :)
He better be more reasonable, or else we'll have to start considering siccing a Last Hunter on him.

Once again I'm pissed off that a damn nativist is running such an influential world, especially one dumb enough to ignore Orks in favour of better bank balance and snub crucial allies out of spite.

I just want Olaf back.
 
Once again I'm pissed off that a damn nativist is running such an influential world, especially one dumb enough to ignore Orks in favour of better bank balance and snub crucial allies out of spite.
Eh you can't accuse him of ignoring them, just being dismissive of them and he was willing to buy the rest of the graveyard off us despite the fact it put us in even deeper debt.

I'd wager the army at least isn't doing too great under him though.
 
My recommendation was Ridcully scanning for the DE )specifically holes in their defences) so the Eldar can punk em, helps everybody really.
The Eldar have very good seers of their own. Ridcully may actually be impressive even by their standards, but they almost certainly have better than even him, and far more experienced in dealing with the Dark Eldar, including actually recognizing the difference between real and fake weaknesses.
 
The Eldar have very good seers of their own. Ridcully may actually be impressive even by their standards, but they almost certainly have better than even him, and far more experienced in dealing with the Dark Eldar, including actually recognizing the difference between real and fake weaknesses.
Ridcully has been stated several times to be the best order seer after Eldrad.

Significantly better than even the best Eldar Seer.

And of course there's his paragon traits which mean he can see through pretty much all their wards and defences, remain undetectable while doing so and most importantly do it on the other side of the galaxy as he does not suffer from the range restrictions that afflict farseers so he doesn't have to put himself at rist.

I'd say he could do it.
 
With assistance from High Grandmaster Ridcully Archmagos Tranth was able to reverse engineer the Void Abacus that was recently examined, and only had to pull apart one of your examples. He tells you that while he will be able to make more that they are possibly to expensive to make to create one for every ship, so decisions will have to be made on what to do with them.

Well at the very least with these suckers we should be able to get ourselves back into the Black money wise by selling them to the rest of the Trust.
 
Obviously there are some exceptions to the first rule (most notably specific implementation of radically new technology or extremely rare abilities), but as far as theorycrafting an improvement to our anti-cultist efforts our options tend to be ruinously expensive (such as warding for the full population) or of the nature of 'take every anti-cult/corruption option we can, especially long term ones'.
It might actually be possible to ward all our whole population with Banishment Runes. It'd take up a huge amount of our psyker-hours, but it might be worth it.
 
Where are people getting the list for the siren runes. I've looked through the thread but I couldn't find it
 
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