- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Varangian Guard currently have 30 Advanced Terminator Armors.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
About 39 in the Trust full stop.
Actually a lot more than I was expecting.
- Location
- Berkeley
While I agree that the Super Lances are a more generally applicable weapon, right now our main naval opponent is the Orks, so developing some specialized units made almost exclusively for dealing with them seems appropriate so long as we don't over commit to their production. Plus, in my opinion the Hyper Cruisers are by their nature a specialized tool.
Agreed, but the goal here isn't to develop and produce a magic bullet that will let us easily one-shot Hulks, it's to find a way to substantially increase our punching power against Hulks without a massive investment that would require substantial cutbacks elsewhere or take too long to come online.
Ten or twenty battlecruisers isn't much in the way of resource commitment for the Trust Navy (practically a rounding error in fact) but would be able to effectively one-shot a large hulk or cause very significant damage to a huge hulk based on the math you did, and that's all on top of the damage the rest of the Trust fleet does. That would probably be enough to have taken out the Gargantuan Hulk over the course of the void battle before the Ork landing.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Of that there is no doubt.
Still they'll have utility outside of just being anti capital killers.
Where did you find that? Is there a google doc for that?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Nope, the Knights have the other nine.
If the Guard have the other 30 Astartes suits then that means there's about 39 in the Trust.
I asked for that GK omake I did.
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Source for VG gaving 30 suits ATDA(A).
We really should just design Grav-Accelerator Nova Cannon and Spinal Grav-Accelerator battlecruisers (why don't we have plans for those in the first place?), they should be capable of filling roles of Ragnarok Cannon and Super Lance hyper-battlecruisers respectively while being cheaper and sturdier.
And wouldn't Ragnarok Canon be worse than Nova Canon in killing hulks? For safety reasons it stores only several rounds worth of anti-matter and after firing those it need to produce new ones on the go and can only make 1 round/hour, good for overwhelming alpha-strikes, not so good at sustained DPS.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Hyper reactors seem to have been quite advanced when the war broke out, the only example we have is MOI's super grav ship (we should really fix that up...). There's also the Ramilies, but those ain't common either.
I'd imagine Rokslide would have schematics for em, but otherwise...
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
We don't need hyper reactors for Grav-Accelerator Nova Cannon and Spinal Grav-Accelerator battlecruisers, descriptions of those weapons specificly mentions that they are mountable on battlecruisers (and larger classes of ships), that's exactly why I prefer using them. We also have heavy cruisers armed with them.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
- Location
- madison
they also have shit range. when your using a Ragnarok Canon on a hulk your in a slugging match, so ammo capacity matters less at that point because one way or another it's going to be over soon. That said, they only have a tad more than twice the damge of a NC even at short range, and NC do more as the enemy closes, so I'd probably take 2 NC over one Ragnarok Canon.
- Location
- Berkeley
We have heavy cruisers armed with them, which are already superior for slugging matches to mobility-based battlecruisers
We don't have plans for battlecruisers with those weapons most likely because the datacore dump already contained an absolutely massive number of ship types and armament configurations.
Also, while their alpha-strike capability is certainly their single strongest feature, their 'sustained' single target DPS is also superior to the Nova Cannon according to what people have been saying. Their downsides compared to the Nova Cannon is that they're strictly single target, have a somewhat shorter effective range, and require a direct hit to do anything.
Higher 'sustained' DPS while being able to run out of range of the hulk while it recharges its ammo also means that despite being more fragile in absolute terms than one built around a Nova Cannon it should actually be able to keep fighting quite a bit longer due to not needing to soak nearly as many return hits.
Basically the idea here is to create a ship analogous to our anti-Titan forces, capable of punching far outside of its weight class at the cost of being relatively fragile.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Yeah, it's weird. We have literally only one class of ship using GA Nova Cannon (Chavalier CH) and two classes using Spinal Grav-Accelerators (Paladin CH and Vajra CCB). I can kinda understand minimal usage of NC since it and Ragnarok Cannon kinda overlaps in the roles (and multiple battleships and command battleships we found use them, though lack of Nova Cannon battlecruiser is glaring) but we should look more into Spinal Grav-Accelerators, especially since after Tranth upgraded them they are currently the longest ranged naval weapons in our arsenal (attack craft and torpedoes aside), and they have best AP as well.
As any player of Battlefleet Gothic should know, an Imperial Fleet that wants to be competitive should always have a huge wall of Nova-Cannon equipped Cruisers. Dominators are bullshit. If we currently don't have any Cruisers sporting GA Nova Cannons we seriously need to correct that.
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- Location
- madison
actually, nova cannons do better against most targets at range. at extreme range nova cannons have only 10% worse accuracy and do 6 times the damage. the advantage spinal accelerators have is that they are AP 18 to the nova cannons AP 8. I don't know exactly how damage falls off as armor overcomes AP, but on people who aren't us you usually don't see armor 8 or above until you get into at least the grand cruiser size range, and you don't get signifagnatly over 8 until you get up to battleship size range. Spinal accelerators are fairly niche, well suited to wearing down battleships and dreadnaughts via long range volleys, but for anything less armored you want nova cannons.
though this is by crunch, so durin may put a finger on the scale to represent the fluff in an actual fight.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
@Durin
1. Have the blood dragon's present in the campaign taken many casualties?
2. Have they indicated that they would be receptive to us giving them the designs for the Advanced Terminator armour?
3. A bit longer term and possibly not something we'd be talking about now, but are they receptive to the idea of a joint campaign against the orks? Stamp em out before they go waaargh?
4. Before we left did we have time to ask the Sphinx if they knew anything about Are... also you haven't changed the threadmark name BTW...sorry if you didn't get the PM.
5. Does Lin think the abomination will gear up to have another go at him during his life time?
6. Does he think that we've marked ourselves as enough of a problem for it to have a go at us specifically whether or not Lin's alive?
7. Because I'm not 100% certain when we started making it, how soon until the first batch of ultra dense metal is ready?
8. Will it be enough for a battlebarge?
9. Have designs for a Trust level barge already been made, or are we waiting until the metal is ready first?
10. Thanks to Muspelheim and presumably Char (as they are basically nothing, but volcano) is it safe to assume that we have enough constant acquisition of the minerals needed to make the ultradense metal that we'll have a constant supply of it after the first batch (thanks to technology and exploiting Gas Giants)
11. Do our experts (Scott/Tranth) think using the alloy for things other than battlebarges is practical? For instance while I imagine making a suit of armour out of it is silly (too heavy for a start) what about constructing a fortress out of it, or at least armouring it?
1. Have the blood dragon's present in the campaign taken many casualties?
2. Have they indicated that they would be receptive to us giving them the designs for the Advanced Terminator armour?
3. A bit longer term and possibly not something we'd be talking about now, but are they receptive to the idea of a joint campaign against the orks? Stamp em out before they go waaargh?
4. Before we left did we have time to ask the Sphinx if they knew anything about Are... also you haven't changed the threadmark name BTW...sorry if you didn't get the PM.
5. Does Lin think the abomination will gear up to have another go at him during his life time?
6. Does he think that we've marked ourselves as enough of a problem for it to have a go at us specifically whether or not Lin's alive?
7. Because I'm not 100% certain when we started making it, how soon until the first batch of ultra dense metal is ready?
8. Will it be enough for a battlebarge?
9. Have designs for a Trust level barge already been made, or are we waiting until the metal is ready first?
10. Thanks to Muspelheim and presumably Char (as they are basically nothing, but volcano) is it safe to assume that we have enough constant acquisition of the minerals needed to make the ultradense metal that we'll have a constant supply of it after the first batch (thanks to technology and exploiting Gas Giants)
11. Do our experts (Scott/Tranth) think using the alloy for things other than battlebarges is practical? For instance while I imagine making a suit of armour out of it is silly (too heavy for a start) what about constructing a fortress out of it, or at least armouring it?
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Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
Inserted tally
- Location
- England
I'd have thought remodeling our heavy fleet to take advantage of it enmass. Think of what Folkvangr would be like clad in it.
Artillery Duet
- Location
- Berkeley
@Durin Omake!
Artillery Duet
For those on the ground one of the true constants over the past fortnight since the siege of Mar Sara started in earnest was the pounding of artillery. The rolling thunder of distant explosion played a counterpoint to every facet of life, from sleep to combat, and few days went by anywhere on the surface without the scream of incoming munitions falling from the sky or the earth-shaking blast of too-close detonations, let alone the sharp yet muted retort of counter battery fire.
For all that it was a constant, though, to those who could afford to truly pay attention it was ever changing, telling the story of the battles even as they occurred. Imperfectly, of course—as a medium the sounds of artillery are far too granular and limited to convey the full depths of the myriad struggles that made up even the skirmishes of this war—and fading away far too quickly with time and distance to be of much use, but to the discerning ear each thrust and counter thrust was briefly immortalized.
Those familiar with the tendencies of Orks might assume that their use of artillery would be random. They were right, too, as the Orks cared little for concepts such as grand strategy, complex tactics, or discipline, but there were patterns and information there nonetheless. A single round fired would be followed by a smattering of copy cats, each either inspired by the explosion of the first, seeking to outdo it, or both. A barrage suddenly petering out as those firing it began to quarrel over whose turn it was to shoot the gun, briefly pausing as they stop to admire a particularly great explosion, or even intensifying as a spontaneous competition between the gunners forms. Random, certainly, as synchronizing their shots, using premade firing solutions, or even time-on-target are all beyond them, but not without their own underlying logic and information.
The human artillery usage was both much less random and much more varied. An interesting contradiction, to be sure, but not exactly an unexpected one. Despite their superficial differences, at a fundamental level all Orks are the same, while despite human's superficial similarities all are different. The collection of humans gathered together to defend this world from the Ork menace hailed from many worlds and backgrounds, and their usage of the weapons of war reflected it.
The Midgardians made up the bulk of the forces, but even if they hadn't their style would be considered the baseline against which to compare all others. Ordered, dutiful, and methodical described everything from their loading to their firing solutions. Each spread of ordinance largely the same, as war was not the time for improvisation and by doing the bulk of their preparation ahead of time they could increase the rate at which they could fire. Quantity had a quality all of its own, after all, and their armed forces sought to balance the quality of their troops with sheer quantity. A man with a copy of their tactical manuals might not be able to figure out their exact circumstances based on their choices, but he would be close.
The Alfheimers were rare amongst the gathered troops. With cause—for all that they had exerted no small effort to bring themselves up to the standards of the rest of the Trust, they were not quite there yet. Few could find fault with it, though, as their issues lay in their circumstances rather than their own efforts, and they aid they brought was appreciated. Their firing, though, could be best described as aping the Midgardians and falling short. Nothing serious, but rather than a unified retort as the big guns fired occasionally the volley would be a touch ragged, and their firing solutions a hair slower and slightly less optimal.
Then there were the Mechanicus forces, working together in silence occasionally broken by a squawk of binary. Mechanical in precision, mechanical in movement, mechanical in body, each and every movement in their dance carefully optimized with all extraneous action stripped away. Firing solutions mathematically derived to cause maximum damage, yet no less idiosyncratic than their less logic-driven counterparts.
Of particular note were the Avernites, few in number yet disproportionate in effect. Of all the human forces represented their artillery seemed the most random, yet none would argue that they were anything but the most deadly on a per-battery basis. Every firing pattern tweaked to better suit the circumstances, every move analyzed for potential improvement, every action taken to better eliminate their enemy. War was in many ways their home every bit as much as Avernus was, and it showed in their near casual familiarity with it. Preparation occurred simultaneously with action, and each individual moved with steady confidence both in themselves and their comrades regardless of the circumstances, as most feared failing them far more than death.
The situation was not static, far from it, and the duet of the artillery was ever twisting to reflect the changing circumstances. Batteries fell silent, new ones joined in. Orbital strikes played a counterpoint, first with the Orks and then later with the human defenders. And through it all those participating listened.
Artillery Duet
For those on the ground one of the true constants over the past fortnight since the siege of Mar Sara started in earnest was the pounding of artillery. The rolling thunder of distant explosion played a counterpoint to every facet of life, from sleep to combat, and few days went by anywhere on the surface without the scream of incoming munitions falling from the sky or the earth-shaking blast of too-close detonations, let alone the sharp yet muted retort of counter battery fire.
For all that it was a constant, though, to those who could afford to truly pay attention it was ever changing, telling the story of the battles even as they occurred. Imperfectly, of course—as a medium the sounds of artillery are far too granular and limited to convey the full depths of the myriad struggles that made up even the skirmishes of this war—and fading away far too quickly with time and distance to be of much use, but to the discerning ear each thrust and counter thrust was briefly immortalized.
Those familiar with the tendencies of Orks might assume that their use of artillery would be random. They were right, too, as the Orks cared little for concepts such as grand strategy, complex tactics, or discipline, but there were patterns and information there nonetheless. A single round fired would be followed by a smattering of copy cats, each either inspired by the explosion of the first, seeking to outdo it, or both. A barrage suddenly petering out as those firing it began to quarrel over whose turn it was to shoot the gun, briefly pausing as they stop to admire a particularly great explosion, or even intensifying as a spontaneous competition between the gunners forms. Random, certainly, as synchronizing their shots, using premade firing solutions, or even time-on-target are all beyond them, but not without their own underlying logic and information.
The human artillery usage was both much less random and much more varied. An interesting contradiction, to be sure, but not exactly an unexpected one. Despite their superficial differences, at a fundamental level all Orks are the same, while despite human's superficial similarities all are different. The collection of humans gathered together to defend this world from the Ork menace hailed from many worlds and backgrounds, and their usage of the weapons of war reflected it.
The Midgardians made up the bulk of the forces, but even if they hadn't their style would be considered the baseline against which to compare all others. Ordered, dutiful, and methodical described everything from their loading to their firing solutions. Each spread of ordinance largely the same, as war was not the time for improvisation and by doing the bulk of their preparation ahead of time they could increase the rate at which they could fire. Quantity had a quality all of its own, after all, and their armed forces sought to balance the quality of their troops with sheer quantity. A man with a copy of their tactical manuals might not be able to figure out their exact circumstances based on their choices, but he would be close.
The Alfheimers were rare amongst the gathered troops. With cause—for all that they had exerted no small effort to bring themselves up to the standards of the rest of the Trust, they were not quite there yet. Few could find fault with it, though, as their issues lay in their circumstances rather than their own efforts, and they aid they brought was appreciated. Their firing, though, could be best described as aping the Midgardians and falling short. Nothing serious, but rather than a unified retort as the big guns fired occasionally the volley would be a touch ragged, and their firing solutions a hair slower and slightly less optimal.
Then there were the Mechanicus forces, working together in silence occasionally broken by a squawk of binary. Mechanical in precision, mechanical in movement, mechanical in body, each and every movement in their dance carefully optimized with all extraneous action stripped away. Firing solutions mathematically derived to cause maximum damage, yet no less idiosyncratic than their less logic-driven counterparts.
Of particular note were the Avernites, few in number yet disproportionate in effect. Of all the human forces represented their artillery seemed the most random, yet none would argue that they were anything but the most deadly on a per-battery basis. Every firing pattern tweaked to better suit the circumstances, every move analyzed for potential improvement, every action taken to better eliminate their enemy. War was in many ways their home every bit as much as Avernus was, and it showed in their near casual familiarity with it. Preparation occurred simultaneously with action, and each individual moved with steady confidence both in themselves and their comrades regardless of the circumstances, as most feared failing them far more than death.
The situation was not static, far from it, and the duet of the artillery was ever twisting to reflect the changing circumstances. Batteries fell silent, new ones joined in. Orbital strikes played a counterpoint, first with the Orks and then later with the human defenders. And through it all those participating listened.
- Location
- madison
you know, this is actually the most chilling thing omake of the new orks seen so far. A reminder that it's not just the fodder orks who got so much more dangerous, those rare orks who break the mold are a hell of a lot more dangerous now too. kommandos with cloaking armor and a good idea of how to use it is a terrifying thought.
You also did a fantastic job of making both fighters fight smart. You could see both the polys and the counter ploys, like when the ork had a moving turret act as a diversion while he stood still to look like a turret.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. some, inlcuding the entire Death Company
2.they would be and would consider themselves in your debt
3. probebly
4. you did not
5. depending on the Orks yes
6. no
7. 105 years after you got the tech
8. no but you will have enough for one a decade later
9. work will begin a few turns before you can start making it
10. yes, though still a limited supply
11. yes but warn you that there will always be a limited amount
It seems like ultradense metal would be even better suited to fortresses than battlebarges. I mean mass still matters in spaceships for acceleration reasons. A fortress doesn't have to go anywhere. An orbital fort the size of a battlebarge but devoting all the power and space that would be spent on engines to more shields and weapons would be beastly. Maybe we could finally build an orbital defense station that isn't a total deathtrap the first time an enemy attacks?
I mean I suppose that could also be applied to the ground, but our groundside fortresses have a pretty good track record, whereas our orbital ones are just terrible.
If we put it above Dis where the ground based anti-orbital defenses could help defend it we could maybe hold an orbital strong point even if the rest of the orbitals fell. That would at least deny the enemy direct bombardment of Dis and provide a staging point for mobile fleet assets.
I mean I suppose that could also be applied to the ground, but our groundside fortresses have a pretty good track record, whereas our orbital ones are just terrible.
If we put it above Dis where the ground based anti-orbital defenses could help defend it we could maybe hold an orbital strong point even if the rest of the orbitals fell. That would at least deny the enemy direct bombardment of Dis and provide a staging point for mobile fleet assets.
- Location
- England
The reality of the matter is that holding the orbitals over averneus is just not viable for us. The amount of advantages we have on the ground, and immunity to serious orbital bombardment makes fighting above the planet comparatively wasteful.
Honestly, I'd be more than willing to not even attempt to refortify our orbitals, and spend the resources on more mobile ships instead.
- Location
- madison
that intentional. You notice how no one has so much as touched diaphobe? that's because it has the kind of defenses that can see off major invasions on their own. we opted for a fleet rather than a second set of defenses like that. Partially because we want people to try and land on Avernus rather than try to hit a planet that can't casually wipe out billions strong army. We would not be the ones to benefit from a super dense super fortress.