Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
They're armored warships, unsuited to harassment.
We use them in the battle above Avernus.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
We use them in the battle above Avernus.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
They'll land either way. We can't even take out an appreciable fraction of their transport capability for now. Not with harassment alone, anyway.
Oh, so you want to take the fight to them now, instead of utilising our home-field advantage and wear down their numbers until a confrontation is more favourable to us?
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Not especially; I just don't really see the point of giving away the divination advantage at the very beginning of the battle unless we want to go all in.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] Plan Subtle Ambush
Changing my vote, I realized that no matter what happens we're not going to make much of a dent in them quickly by targeting the escorts, and there's no support to target anything else.
So long as our ships survive we can switch to blatant the instant they split their fleet to send some back for reinforcements, at that point we'll be getting both ground and space bonuses.
Edit: I mean they're going to even the odds in the void all on their own let's wait until that weak point then pounce.
PPS I may even approval vote reducing the harassment level to preserve ships for the better upcoming opportunity if someone proposes it.
Changing my vote, I realized that no matter what happens we're not going to make much of a dent in them quickly by targeting the escorts, and there's no support to target anything else.
So long as our ships survive we can switch to blatant the instant they split their fleet to send some back for reinforcements, at that point we'll be getting both ground and space bonuses.
Edit: I mean they're going to even the odds in the void all on their own let's wait until that weak point then pounce.
PPS I may even approval vote reducing the harassment level to preserve ships for the better upcoming opportunity if someone proposes it.
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- Location
- nz
[X] Plan Subtle Ambush
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
@Durin
1. Sarnow and Rotbart estimation of:
a. Subtle Ambush casualties on enemy? (Thousands?)
b. Wreck the Fleet casualties on enemy?(Thousands?)
1. Sarnow and Rotbart estimation of:
a. Subtle Ambush casualties on enemy? (Thousands?)
b. Wreck the Fleet casualties on enemy?(Thousands?)
Um, they're going to defend their transports. With their light elements. They aren't idiots. If we destroy their light elements now, they'll be less able to defend their transports.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
It's a good question. I'll leave the answering to someone who votes Wreck.
Eh, we'll probably not lose anything but some escorts, and at a favourable exchange rate. Though if it'll be favourable relative our numbers disadvantage is another matter. The important thing is that it gives us better future harassment opportunities.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
Yes, that is why I still support targeting the escorts, but that doesn't change that the best opportunity is still after they split their fleet, it gives them two regions they have to screen using however many escorts haven't been picked off by harassment and the orbital defenses.
But we aren't going to take out a battle altering concentration of escorts in one harassment phase, instead I'd support wearing down the escorts here, then wearing the escorts down at the orbital defenses, then taking blatant advantage of their plans to launch a serious ground and space strike. With the space strike targeting the now less defended transports with the split fleet as they move away from the planet, interfering with them picking up reinforcements and the ground strike targeting critical assets in their landing zones(Titans, command staff, supplies they're short on, aircraft).
I'm not absolutely sure this is the best plan, their Titans can crack our cities, while additional hordes of manpower will just break against our walls and die in the wilderness, so taking blatant advantage and pressing an attack hard against the mass conveyors from the beginning might be a better plan, but if we're not doing that I don't think showing our hand or going all in is worth it until they split their fleet.
@Durin questions:
1. They're deploying on a death world, an unconventional death world that holds a special hatred for them, what supplies did they miscalculate the quantity the theater environment would require they bring along?
2. and where are they keeping those supplies in particular?
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Okay, I was pretty sure I wrote a responce to this, but the internet ate my post.
Blatant allows us to thin out their escorts basically twice as well. They absolutely have to take Avernus' voidspace if they want to invade Avernus. It's borderline a precondition, unless they want a one-way 'Sacrifice everything, crashland the transports' strategy, in which case no reinforcements.
Durin has said that we aren't going to have multiple harassment phases. Rotbart and Sarnow's expectation of the naval combat outcome is 'Driven away or wiped out, but inflicting massive damage'. I'd suggest sacrificing our heavy elements in the fight above Avernus.
Remember, this is the Abomination. Changing plans on the go is NOT their schtick.
ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan Subtle Ambush
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Subtle Ambush
I am curious about how would the Abomination react to their plans being known all along.
But is that information worth throwing our ace at non-essential forces? Not really.
I am curious about how would the Abomination react to their plans being known all along.
But is that information worth throwing our ace at non-essential forces? Not really.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
Can't they make do with 95 percent of the void-space? Must they absolutely have it all?
Well - they can't have it all, not until they've completely destroyed our fleet or driven it away, and they can't spread their fleet all over the planet because then our more concentrated fleet and anti-orbital city defences will just tear everything they can reach into itty-bitty pieces.
I understood that as only one harassment phase for this landing. Out of several landings to come. Clearly something we should get very clear.
That's if we engage right now. Maybe. Let's just find out if we actually have to engage right now.
God dammit, how many of us imbeciles have been planning and voting on completely erroneous assumptions about the most basic of the strategic situation!? And more importantly, which of us?
@Durin, here's some more questions, because we never tire of those:
1. When you said that we'd only get one harassment phase, was that for this current wave of the enemy landing the first of their armies, or for the entire conflict?
2. Are we forced to engage the entire enemy fleet with our entire fleet in the next week for some decisive naval battle?
2a. if not, can we keep playing guerilla ambushers with our fleet while the enemy fleet goes back and forth to bus their armies to Avernus?
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- Location
- Berkeley
[X] Plan Subtle Ambush
My reasoning is that this option preserves the surprise factor of our degree of foreknowledge until the majority of our fleet engages them while still causing some damage. Our light forces really aren't numerous enough to do a huge amount of damage in my mind, so better to try to stack the deck so that we can have the maximum possible advantage in the fight in the orbitals, where we'll also have the ground and orbital defenses as well as our heavy ships. A decent amount of damage now to their screening elements plus maintaining the surprise of our intel advantage might let Sarnow pull off a ludicrous ambush then too...
My reasoning is that this option preserves the surprise factor of our degree of foreknowledge until the majority of our fleet engages them while still causing some damage. Our light forces really aren't numerous enough to do a huge amount of damage in my mind, so better to try to stack the deck so that we can have the maximum possible advantage in the fight in the orbitals, where we'll also have the ground and orbital defenses as well as our heavy ships. A decent amount of damage now to their screening elements plus maintaining the surprise of our intel advantage might let Sarnow pull off a ludicrous ambush then too...
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. yes
2. yes
2a. no
3.3-8 billion
4. 5+
1. unknown
2.upper bound of Exalted
1. due to Saint lin yes
2. switch to direct command by the general
3. no
I feel like I have answered these already
1. with a incredibly good roll
2. not short of a nat 100
3. it would be possible, really really hard especially for the larger ships but possible
4. will tell you when it becomes relevant
1. unpredicible (this is getting into the I am not the player region)
1. nothing
1. the current phase
2. no
2a. you can
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
it looking hopeless
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
A lot of sacrifices and desperation
More seriously though I'm more interested in the consequences that its a MAD plan rather than a standard plan.
@Durin
1. Besides the obvious needing to sacrifice a not insubstantial portion of their army, what are the consequences of summoning a First Circle that turn it from thing they'd do normally to last resort? Do they just kill everything?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I honestly think whatever we plan on doing, the Abomination having less light fleet elements to contest it is more valuable than Ridcully's information - Particularly this:
Ridcully can keep divining to help the space battle, including getting new battleplans, without any cost until they start landing.
That's why I'm going for the Blatant option. The advantage is not a concrete - We need to convert it from an immaterial advantage (information superiority) to a concrete one (materiel advantage due to their light fleet elements getting murdered). Ridcully's divinations are not forever -It is a fleeting resource to be used.
Ridcully can keep divining to help the space battle, including getting new battleplans, without any cost until they start landing.
That's why I'm going for the Blatant option. The advantage is not a concrete - We need to convert it from an immaterial advantage (information superiority) to a concrete one (materiel advantage due to their light fleet elements getting murdered). Ridcully's divinations are not forever -It is a fleeting resource to be used.
- Location
- Berkeley
Durin said that the backup plan was going to direct command by the general, so Ridcully wouldn't be able to predict it too far ahead. Plus, we won't have had months of in-universe time to analyze the new moves for weaknesses so I'd bet the bonus would be lower.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. because if they do the vast majority of the credit of victory goes to the Archangyl rather then to themA lot of sacrifices and desperation
More seriously though I'm more interested in the consequences that its a MAD plan rather than a standard plan.
@Durin
1. Besides the obvious needing to sacrifice a not insubstantial portion of their army, what are the consequences of summoning a First Circle that turn it from thing they'd do normally to last resort? Do they just kill everything?