The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Red Bovine]

Since we will probably only have a few or one use of the webway in exchange for our info which polity do you prioritize trading with?

Click to shrink...

I'm thinking Callamus since they are a major forge world and thus likely have access to a lot of tech and have good production capabilities. The other ones are major Space Marine chapters since they are among the major players in the galaxy. Especially if their legion has their Primarch with them.

 

[Azgrin]

I'm thinking Callamus since they are a major forge world and thus likely have access to a lot of tech and have good production capabilities. The other ones are major Space Marine chapters since they are among the major players in the galaxy. Especially if their legion has their Primarch with them.

Click to shrink...

I just worry about a fall of Medusa occurring and Abby getting the tech. I'd probably vote for it, only hesitantly though.

 

[guyfromtheplace1]

On the navy I think we should reconsider even building escorts. The only reason to have small ships is because you don't have enough big ships to protect all of your stuff. We are not in such a position. Between our small size and massive divination capability we can pretty much always concentrate as much of our fleet as we want against any threat. In the big engagements we have been fighting escorts are far less useful than an equivalent mass/cost of capital or supercapital ships.

Now that the graveyard is almost exhausted I think we should switch to a more top heavy order of battle.

Click to shrink...

The admirals say that escorts are useful for combined arms tactics in space, and avoiding getting outmaneuvered.

Also if Durin doesn't fall to the common quest addiction of creating bigger and bigger monsters/armies for the players to fight then I expect either pirates and raiders or that Tzeentchian superweapon will be our next big problem.
We're surrounded by Orkz and two chaos polities, all of those groups are known for spinning off minor warbands and pirates, we're also overextended and short on escorts, and likely to soon become even more overextended as we take territory from Valinor.
We do have some advantages VS raiders, extensive orbital defense networks, better ships than most human polities, lots of shipbuilding for our size, but there are ways to get around those advantages, we also have problems, not enough ships, too much territory to cover, our ships make the tempting targets for enemy capture.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

EDIT: Well actually Super Lance HBC is not the worst idea in the galaxy, because while it is an expensive glass cannon, it is a long ranged and fast expensive glass cannon, so as long as you can play keep-away it can work (though if things go wrong they will go wrong quickly). Ragnarok Cannon (mediocre range, fragile AND slower than regular BC) and Graviton (fragile short ranged brawler? That thing is essentially overpriced, glorified fire ship) ones are IMO tremendously horrible ideas.

Click to shrink...

You do realise you just said my compromise right

So for now, compromise?

Do the Super lance which gives us more anti hulk fire power without harming the ship too much in other areas or putting it directly in the line of fire?

Click to shrink...

The Graviton ones especially are the worst because the Graviton guns are only effective against organics, great against nids, but other wise not so useful and likely situational and even if they're effective against nids they still need a platform where they don't get shredded quickly by everything else.

That being said I'd hardily call Battle Cruisers glass cannons.

They may have the defences of a Cruiser, but that's still the defence of a Cruiser against most foes I expect they'd do quite well.

Regardless happy with the compromise of more Nova lasers?

More long super long range fire power, and any engagement where I see them getting into the line of fire will most likely have the heavy fleet there to support them.

Now that the graveyard is almost exhausted I think we should switch to a more top heavy order of battle.

Click to shrink...

Very likely, but escorts do serve an important role (shielding the bigger ships) we also need them for keeping an eye on our area, while I'd like to use a battleship for every patrol I don't think that's practical.

In a few decades I hope that escort production will be given to the colonies while Vanaheim focuses its efforts on building top heavy stuff.

There is a very good reason I really think we should start tech trading with the other uncorrupted humans throughout the galaxy as soon as possible. No matter what people feel about the Eldar the webway is our best bet to save everyone else and if the Orks get out of control we are fucked. Simple as that.

Click to shrink...

Sure, but remember we do have to get stuff back.

That being said I must remind people that while many polities will fall I'd give good chances to anyone who reached approximately the same size as the Blood Dragons before we gave em our stuff.

I agree that we need to do some research for our fleets, but I think that the best 'research' we could do would be sending an over-strength force to go after those hidden shipyards soonish.
Maybe we'll get some inspiration for next generation ship upgrades? Or find a range of space warfare or ship production STC's/reverse engineerable Archaeotech to help close the gap between us and our enemies.

Click to shrink...

Not for a while I fear, we've got at a mimumum these things which need to be researched first

1. Void Abbacus
2. Well's gravity engines to fix em
3. Factory ship for fuel

I'm all in favour of going to get em though, the Deus alone would probably be a treasure trove of stuff.

I'm thinking Callamus since they are a major forge world and thus likely have access to a lot of tech and have good production capabilities. The other ones are major Space Marine chapters since they are among the major players in the galaxy. Especially if their legion has their Primarch with them.

Click to shrink...

Ehhh.

Callamus sure, but I'd rather go Ultramar (Tau tech) or Noctern (if we can first confirm that the hidden presence behind Vulkan isn't chaos)

As for Primachs with legion well

Vulkan: Only one we know off leading legion
Leman: Currently in the boonies as far as we know
Corvus: With Leman in the boonies as far as we know (OOC we don't even know either of em are out of the eye)
Jhagati: Getting his legion back together, but we don't know he's back

The rest are still MIA or effectively Dead.

Still if I have any say in the matter I'd say we trade them about the same level as we did the Blood Dragons. We've seen the transformation that occurred with that, but we still need to be careful.

Astartes stuff to Ultramar or Noctern would be a big bonus on its own even before the production STCs and the like.

I just worry about a fall of Medusa occurring and Abby getting the tech. I'd probably vote for it, only hesitantly though.

Click to shrink...

In that area Huron is a bigger presence.

 

[noliar]

I don't like vortex shells.

1. They're too sensitive and unpredictable to keep aboard in the numbers to feed a macrocannon battery.
2. Macrocannon are shorter range than torpedoes which means vortex effects going off closer to our ships.
3. Macrocannon shot are destroyed by void shields, unlike the slower closing torpedoes, which wastes the very expensive vortex weapons. If you wait until the shields are down before using them you're using them at even more uncomfortably close range.
4. We're phasing out macrocannon in favour of grav-accellerator batteries which have better range, more power and lighter ammunition. The main remaining niche for macrocannon is shooting through atmosphere where the ultra-velocity projectiles of a grav-accellerator would shed catastrophic amounts of energy. Vortex weapons on a planetary surface are a bad idea.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I don't like vortex shells.

1. They're too sensitive and unpredictable to keep aboard in the numbers to feed a macrocannon battery.
2. Macrocannon are shorter range than torpedoes which means vortex effects going off closer to our ships.
3. Macrocannon shot are destroyed by void shields, unlike the slower closing torpedoes, which wastes the very expensive vortex weapons. If you wait until the shields are down before using them you're using them at even more uncomfortably close range.
4. We're phasing out macrocannon in favour of grav-accellerator batteries which have better range, more power and lighter ammunition. The main remaining niche for macrocannon is shooting through atmosphere where the ultra-velocity projectiles of a grav-accellerator would shed catastrophic amounts of energy. Vortex weapons on a planetary surface are a bad idea.

Click to shrink...

1. I'm pretty sure it was noted that the DAoT ones are very well protected against going off accidentally. Probably a result of DAoT knowing what they were doing (or not in the case of Vortex weapons. Either way these ones have quite a few protections)
2. Closer sure, but unless something goes really wrong the Vortexes are still in their ships so unless one ship is ramming they shouldn't be close enough to make a difference.
3. I think the general idea is to switch ammo from normal plasma shells to them when the shield goes down. I'd imagine we normally would switch to melta shells.
4. wish we were that close, but unfortunately they're still too big power hogs to stick on every ship. Maybe with the improved reactors, but at the moment I don't believe we're that close.

 

[Azgrin]

1. Void Abbacus
2. Well's gravity engines to fix em
3. Factory ship for fuel

Click to shrink...

1. That just makes the trip take less time, we don't NEED them to send out an explorator fleet.
2. Do we even want to send the well?
3. Have we confirmed this is an issue?

Though we could always just send the well with one of our existing abacuses. Or a sufficiently large ship with an abacus, anything to make sure we get this done in a timely manner.

 

[Red Bovine]

I just worry about a fall of Medusa occurring and Abby getting the tech. I'd probably vote for it, only hesitantly though.

Click to shrink...

Problem with holding tech is that it means that other human polities are fall more likely to fall. If that happens that means no one is around to stop the Orks and if they snowball out of control we are fucked. We can also give them our tech blackboxing and destruction techniques that we use to prevent those issues.

 

[Azgrin]

Problem with holding tech is that it means that other human polities are fall more likely to fall. If that happens that means no one is around to stop the Orks and if they snowball out of control we are fucked. We can also give them our tech blackboxing and destruction techniques that we use to prevent those issues.

Click to shrink...

I'm fine with teching up Callamus, Nocturne and Ultramar for sure.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

1. That just makes the trip take less time, we don't NEED them to send out an explorator fleet.
2. Do we even want to send the well?
3. Have we confirmed this is an issue?

Though we could always just send the well with one of our existing abacuses. Or a sufficiently large ship with an abacus, anything to make sure we get this done in a timely manner.

Click to shrink...

1. It takes 6 years there and back through hostile territory without them which likely has very fast chaos ships in it and Tranth is the only one with a chance in hell of figuring them out and probably has a good chance of dying. Do you really want to not have them before we send him off?
2. No, but it is the only Ark Mechanicus type ship in the area. Its an exploration ship I'd imagine it can last on its own the longest.
3. No, but I'd rather not risk it. Very embarrassing. The Goliath also provides more manufacturing than what the Well can provide on its own.

I'd imagine we can do that, but I'd rather be prepare for every eventuality.

Problem with holding tech is that it means that other human polities are fall more likely to fall. If that happens that means no one is around to stop the Orks and if they snowball out of control we are fucked. We can also give them our tech blackboxing and destruction techniques that we use to prevent those issues.

Click to shrink...

Its not just humans you know, especially with the Yinnari and Krork being proactive + I'd imagine the Crons are putting on their big boy pants. I'd also not underestimate the tenacity of the human polities, well big ones anyway.

Our black boxing and destruction isn't all that stellar either, especially if they just get the STC blue print.

Best case we give them a encrypted data jewel, but still.

The Minor ones are screwed, but I don't think we care much about them I fear.

 

[Azgrin]

1. It takes 6 years there and back through hostile territory without them which likely has very fast chaos ships in it and Tranth is the only one with a chance in hell of figuring them out and probably has a good chance of dying. Do you really want to not have them before we send him off and do you not want him back ASAP?
2. No, but it is the only Ark Mechanicus type ship in the area. Its an exploration ship I'd imagine it can last on its own the longest.
3. No, but I'd rather not risk it. Very embarrassing. The Goliath also provides more manufacturing than what the Well can provide on its own.

Click to shrink...

Sending Tranth is a whole different conversation that I'm not about to touch right now. IF he gets sent then I agree with you.

The Minor ones are screwed, but I don't think we care much about them I fear.

Click to shrink...

As callous as it is they will just provide a security risk to try to help via tech upgrades.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Sending Tranth is a whole different conversation that I'm not about to touch right now. IF he gets sent then I agree with you.

Click to shrink...

I don't think we have a choice on this one, he's the head of the Explorators and the most competent.

If he says he's going I'd wager there's nothing we could do to stop him, partially because he'll likely argue (correctly) that he's the best man for the Job and its his duty.

He's not a bad choice TBF in fact he really is the best. He can probably get to the facility, find the designs, extract them and leave faster anyone else could hope and he's a very skilled warrior, a good general and so well respected that I doubt any admecher would step out of line and challenge him.

As callous as it is they will just provide a security risk to try to help via tech upgrades.

Click to shrink...

I know and it makes me depressed.

It also depresses me that I can't find it in me to share all our stuff with other polities, but again that just seems foolish.

 

[Azgrin]

It also depresses me that I can't find it in me to share all our stuff with other polities, but again that just seems foolish.

Click to shrink...

The survival of the Trust is the mission here. The only reason I'm willing to let our tech go is because what we get in exchange from places like Callamus will keep us alive just a little bit better.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

The survival of the Trust is the mission here. The only reason I'm willing to let our tech go is because what we get in exchange from places like Callamus will keep us alive just a little bit better.

Click to shrink...

And assist in killing Orks, though it doesn't make me feel any better (that being said remember a bulk of the ork killing is probably getting done by the Triumvirate of ashes)

My main fear though is Ultramar (well whatever the things behind Vulkan might be first then Ultramar)

When we give them our Blood Dragon Level Relief package I'm afraid that them and the Tau may get back too it after they've finally eradicated all the orks that they can reasonably get too.

They were supposed to keep going at it until "the Destroyer Rises" and the Orks are not the Destroyer as I recall.

Us giving them our stuff could shift the balance of power drastically and not in a good way.

 

[Azgrin]

And assist in killing Orks, though it doesn't make me feel any better (that being said remember a bulk of the ork killing is probably getting done by the Triumvirate of ashes)

My main fear though is Ultramar (well whatever the things behind Vulkan might be first then Ultramar)

When we give them our Blood Dragon Level Relief package I'm afraid that them and the Tau may get back too it after they've finally eradicated all the orks that they can reasonably get too.

They were supposed to keep going at it until "the Destroyer Rises" and the Orks are not the Destroyer as I recall.

Us giving them our stuff could shift the balance of power drastically and not in a good way.

Click to shrink...

That would be an unfortunate use of resources given what we know but an ascendant Ultramar isn't exactly a bad thing.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

That would be an unfortunate use of resources given what we know but an ascendant Ultramar isn't exactly a bad thing.

Click to shrink...

It would be a very unfortunate waste of resources, partially because the Tau are probably around our level of tech if not higher due to research (tech level tab lists them as 16 ATM)

Currently the two are contesting each other (well not right now, but you get the point) a war with Ultramar empowered would do what exactly?

At best they beat the tau after a long costly war, with thousands of astartes dead most of the Tau's worlds made useless and the Ultramarines would gain what, besides a load of rubble?

Much better if they just advance in expand in opposite directions from each other, the galaxy is more than large enough for the both of them. They can get back to killing one another when there isn't an existential threat to life as a whole (or what ever the Destroyer is) bearing down on the two of them.

 

[Azgrin]

It would be a very unfortunate waste of resources, partially because the Tau are probably around our level of tech if not higher due to research (tech level tab lists them as 16 ATM)

Click to shrink...

Like I said, given the Orks and Destroyer it'd be a waste of resources. I am looking forward to getting some of that shiny xenotech for the Quartok though.

I don't even want to think about the hurdles to have Tau tech approved for human use.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I don't even want to think about the hurdles to have Tau tech approved for human use.

Click to shrink...

Eh, I'm sure Scott could wrangle something by pointing out how most of the stuff we'd get had been re purposed for the good of man by Ultramar and thus is not quite xeno tech.

If that stops the Quartok from using it then buying some Tau tech full scale from Ultramar and handing it to the Quartok with a wink wink nudge nudge seems like it could work.

Help their understanding of things too.

 

[Azgrin]

Eh, I'm sure Scott could wrangle something by pointing out how most of the stuff we'd get had been re purposed for the good of man by Ultramar and thus is not quite xeno tech.

Click to shrink...

That would be the preferred outcome, we already have enough unrest causing actions lines up.

If that stops the Quartok from using it then buying some Tau tech full scale from Ultramar and handing it to the Quartok with a wink wink nudge nudge seems like it could work.

Help their understanding of things too.

Click to shrink...

It makes the Quartok more useful so I'm all for it.

 

[random_npc]

Still, I am not happy with these kill ratios. They are unsustainable. The Orks can create ships at a very fast pace. That's a huge advantage.

If they are outgunning us on top of that then we are as good as dead. I just don't see human polities surviving if the Orks have these many advantages.

Click to shrink...

we were focusing almost entirely on the hulks and roks, because the rest of the ork fleet is at best a screening element. Don't think of it as "we barley damaged their fleet" think of it as "we mauled their capital ships and ignored their screen".

 

[Reynal]

we were focusing almost entirely on the hulks and roks, because the rest of the ork fleet is at best a screening element. Don't think of it as "we barley damaged their fleet" think of it as "we mauled their capital ships and ignored their screen".

Click to shrink...

Or even 'despite all but ignoring their screen and the lighter capital ships to focus our fire on the Hulks, we still managed a close to even exchange in those weight classes'.

Also, I would be supportive of researching and building some Ragnarok Cannon battlecruisers (tentatively named Big Game Hunters in my head). Sure they'd be shit against anything short of super-capital weight class, but filling in the Titan-hunter niche equivalent of space warfare would be good without the explicit danger the larger Hulks represent to us. Plus they might be good for orbital bombardment of things like Tombworlds or cities on airless planets.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

think of it as "we mauled their capital ships and ignored their screen".

Click to shrink...

I'd say think of it as we mauled the Vengeful Spirit/Planet Killer to near death.

Though given the fact that the other hulks were quite heavily damaged without us even focusing on them I'd wager they barely matter.

Hell I'd say we could practically cake walk the entire fleet if not for the 60KM long abomination called Da Crumpa.

Or even 'despite all but ignoring their screen and the lighter capital ships to focus our fire on the Hulks, we still managed a close to even exchange in those weight classes'.

Also, I would be supportive of researching and building some Ragnarok Cannon battlecruisers (tentatively named Big Game Hunters in my head). Sure they'd be shit against anything short of super-capital weight class, but filling in the Titan-hunter niche equivalent of space warfare would be good without the explicit danger the larger Hulks represent to us. Plus they might be good for orbital bombardment of things like Tombworlds or cities on airless planets.

Click to shrink...

I dunno I think I'm with Deus on the Ragnarok cannon Battle cruiser being a bad idea ATM.

Ragnarok Battleship sure (Skidblanidre shows they exist), but other wise BC do seem to fragile for the role, while also taking speed hits and needing to get closer to the hulks (though applying the upgrades from the well may change that by increasing their range)

I mean I say we do all of them eventually just so we have the design in case we need it, but still.

 

[Red Bovine]

Its not just humans you know, especially with the Yinnari and Krork being proactive + I'd imagine the Crons are putting on their big boy pants. I'd also not underestimate the tenacity of the human polities, well big ones anyway.

Our black boxing and destruction isn't all that stellar either, especially if they just get the STC blue print.

Best case we give them a encrypted data jewel, but still.

The Minor ones are screwed, but I don't think we care much about them I fear.

Click to shrink...

Problem is that the Crons and Eldar are very few in number and don't much space. Teching up the other major human polities means we have more allies and make it less likely for them to fall by giving them DAoT tech as soon as possible. Way I see it it just makes sense to drastically boost up all the major human polities since the more that for the less people there are to hold back the Orks. While the tech falling into the hands of chaos may be a problem so are the Orks going out of control to the point where we can't stop them.

 

[thamuzz]

Omake: Lets Do Dis Proppa Den

As the last of the defense stations ruptured in fire and debris, Gutcrumpa let loose a beaming grin.
"All roight boyz, da way iz clear, time for us ta get stuck in roight an' proppa! If dese 'umies foight 'alf as good on da ground 's dey do up 'ere, den dis is gunna be fun."

"Yeah, 'bout dat," a basso voice rumbled from behind him, "Ya fink next time dat ya might wanna not steer dis ting inta e'ry onna dere big gunz, yeah?"

Gutcrumpa sighed, spun and caught the incoming Klaw with his own. They stood for a moment, frozen in tableau, as Gutcrumpa surveyed the scene.

A throng of some of the biggest bosses on Da Crumpa were arrayed before him in a loose semicircle. Each and every one looked like they were spoiling for a fight.

"'Oo's dis Gork wannabe?" Gutcrumpa asked, giving his assailant a shake. His attacker was noticeably smaller than the rest of the crowd, and had spent the time he had gained by Gutcrumpa's pause in a futile attempt to either push forward against Gutcrumpa's Klaw or flee. Neither approach seemed to be bearing much fruit.

"I tink 'e calls izzelf Skullpoppa," a Big Mek near the front of the crowd offered.

Gutcrumpa grunted, yanked the hapless Ork closer, wrapped a hand around his head and squeezed. The smaller Ork squirmed for a second, then fell still.

"I take it dat yaz all 'ere 'bout da poundin' dat Da Crumpa took, ya?" Gutcrumpa asked.

The throng responded with a mixture of nods, "Ya"s and "Dats roight"s.

"So we'z doin' dis now den?"

Another bout of affirmatives.

"Well den, lets do dis proppa loik!" he shouted.

The assembled Orks bellowed their approval. The Mek that had spoken before stepped forward, the rest of the challengers formed a loose ring around the two and the onlookers made a much denser ring around them.

The raucous cheering and jeering of the crowd fell silent as Gutcrumpa slammed his Klaw into the deck plate.

A second slam followed soon after, and the third established the rhythm.

On the fourth, his opponent joined in, how own Klaw thundering against the deck.

On the fifth, the challengers join, some stamping, some slamming down Klaws, a few firing into the air.

As the sixth thundering crash filled the bridge, Gutcrumpa began his chant.

"'Ere we go 'ere we go, Gork Gork Mork Mork!"

The seventh beat came down, and his opponent joined in the chant.

"'Ere we go 'ere we go, Gork Gork Mork Mork!"

The eighth beat, and the rest of the challengers joined in.

"'Ere we go 'ere we go, Gork Gork Mork Mork!"

On the ninth beat, some grot must have hit the special intercom, since the voices of the crowd suddenly echoed throughout the entire fleet. Everywhere, every Ork that felt that they were currently occupying the wrong rung of the ladder stopped what they were doing and went to hunt down the holder of their spot.

"'Ere we go 'ere we go, Gork Gork Mork Mork!"

On the tenth beat, the two combatants charged.

Gutcrumpa swung first, looking for an early dismemberment. This time it was his opponent who caught the blow. As the challenger's Klaw closed around his, two pincers popped out to pin it in place and a brace of spinning blades emerged and began sawing into the now pinned Klaw. In response, the challanger's Klaw began to glow red-hot, melting into Gutcrumpa's. In response, Gutcrumpa's Klaw deployed a laser out its side and began burning out the capacitors fueling the thermal Klaw. In response...

As their Klaws battled to establish dominance, the two Orks found themselves in a bit of a bind. The angle of their grips on each other left them just barely in arms reach, forcing them to trade haphazard blows. Gutcrumpa's longer arms were giving him a slight edge, but not enough to really get in there.

With a clang, the challanger's Klaw split and Gutcrumpa's came down, shearing off his arm at the shoulder. The challenger dropped to the ground, signaling surrender and an almost ecstatic wave passed through the assembled Orks.

For a moment, Gutcrumpa basked in the wash of WAAAGH that swelled around him.

Then a glowing green fist of energy smashed into his head and sent him sprawling into the ring of challengers. The two he collided with pulled him up and shoved him back into the arena, one helpfully leaving him a knife in his ribs. He pulled it free, spun and hurled it at the next challenger. The next match was on.

-----

Hours later, beaten, bloody and invigorated, Gutcrumpa staggered from the ring of unconcious and dead challengers and slammed his fist down on the special intercom.

"STRAP IN LADS, WE'RE GOIN' TA WAAAAAGH!!!"

---------------

Orks now resolve internal power struggles more quickly. Here's what I think that might look like.

 

[noliar]

For me the Ragnarok and super-lance BCs have moved up the the to do list, once we have the power plants.