The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
The obvious effect is increasing the number of high powered war ships that the Trust possesses, however us buying them reduces the difference in fire power in void between us and the Vanir, but it also cements the Vanir's position and reduces their debt.
The vanir shipyards are going to be in full use regardless of whether we buy anything, I'm pretty sure. Us getting the ships might however also lower the average quality of crews, as Avernites are not as good voidsmen as the Vanir. But not so much as to make a massive difference, I don't think.
 
it seems that I should remind you that it takes less time and shipyard capacity to repair a hulk then it does to build a ship of that size from scratch
 
it seems that I should remind you that it takes less time and shipyard capacity to repair a hulk then it does to build a ship of that size from scratch
...

As far as I can tell this is going to be a battle between either we sell all of the hulks, but put the Vanir into even more debt, but over all the Trust benefits (as more ships) and we loose the advantage of having plenty of quick to repair ships.

Maybe?

This asterisk references nothing.
Oh damn...

Gimme a sec.
 
it seems that I should remind you that it takes less time and shipyard capacity to repair a hulk then it does to build a ship of that size from scratch
Hey, the plan I'm working on only has us employing Vanaheim to repair those hulks (doesn't mean our own shipyards can't work on the hulks as well). If the transportation of those hulks to Vanaheim is a problem, I didn't know.
As far as I can tell this is going to be a battle between either we sell all of the hulks, but put the Vanir into even more debt, but over all the Trust benefits (as more ships) and we loose the advantage of having plenty of quick to repair ships.
Hey, if the Vanir want to go into further debt, maybe that's because they think that's okay for them?
After all, if you owe your bank a hundred thousand dollars, you have a problem. But if you (Vanaheim) owe your bank (Avernus) a hundred billion dollars, then your bank has a problem. Especially if you have void superiority by a ridiculous margin of fleets upon fleets.
 
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This asterisk references nothing.
And done, I wanted to make reference to how Mars did have Neutron Guns.

Hey, the plan I'm working on only has us employing Vanaheim to repair those hulks. If the transportation of those hulks to Vanaheim is a problem, I didn't know.
I don't think the transportation is an issue.

Hey, if the Vanir want to go into further debt, maybe that's because they think that's okay for them?
After all, if you owe your bank a hundred thousand dollars, you have a problem. But if you (Vanaheim) owe your bank (Avernus) a hundred billion dollars, then your bank has a problem. Especially if you have void superiority by a ridiculous margin of fleets upon fleets
Well if they're willing to take our hulks then I say sell them the hulks.
 
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Maybe Vanaheim would appreciate it if we sold them some hulks, extended them some more credit, so they don't have to build their own ships from scrap?
I mean, if Bertil doesn't mind going into further debt. Which the option of selling them ships seems to indicate...

@Durin
1. Can we ask Bertil if there are any particular ships he would like, without causing a diplomatic incident?
 
Maybe Vanaheim would appreciate it if we sold them some hulks, extended them some more credit, so they don't have to build their own ships from scrap?
I mean, if Bertil doesn't mind going into further debt. Which the option of selling them ships seems to indicate...

@Durin
1. Can we ask Bertil if there are any particular ships he would like, without causing a diplomatic incident?
1. yes, he would prefer all of them but if not escorts more then anything, the Trust needs more escorts and he can repiar over a thousand a year if he focuses on it
 
Right.
Well, he's probably not getting any of the Nights or Shadows, I think Sarnow has litterally been slobbering over those.
And of course there's the super carrier. Keep it or sell it, guys?
Back to work I go.
 
And of course there's the super carrier. Keep it or sell it, guys?
Sell it.

The sooner they can get to it the better.

@Durin
1. With the Cult of Sollex Canon (and I assume the lore??) Will there be a back ground roll for their project similar to the back ground roll The Order of Omens gets to improve our Farseeing techniques. Obviously given their project expecting any returns is silly, but just knowing that it's going on is comforting.
 
So sell all the escorts and buy the capitals to balance out the debt. That Command Carrier in particular would be excellent for us, or as a gift to the Marines/colonies.

Regardless of whether we are buying or selling we need to clear the graveyard ASAP. Every ship sat there is a ship not protecting the Trust.
 
@Durin
1. is it HALF the ships we buy that are tithed to the trust navy?
and if not:
1a. where do I look to figure out how the tithes for ships work?
3.i. Members of the Imperial Trust must provide a minimum of half of each class of warp-capable warship in their possession, rounded down, to be placed under the command of the Imperial Navy to be stationed and deployed where needed. Vessels placed under central command will be maintained using the Imperial Navy's resources. Worlds may place more than the minimum of their fleet into the care of the Imperial Navy if desired and accepted by central naval command with each such additional vessel becoming a permanent component of the Central Navy.
3.i.a. The Security Council may set up a point based valuation system by which ships of different classes may be tithed as an alternative to tithing every other ship of the same class.
It's in the constitution section 2.
 
Ok, I'm going to be busy today, but I think I can get a plan together this afternoon. Fleet data is important here.

This was our planned mobile fleet from way back when:
1 Einherjar Class Command Battleship

1 Hero Class Battleship

2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
2 Pope Class Grand Carrier
2 Landsknecht Class Grand Cruiser

4 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
4 Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser
4 Templar Class Heavy Carrier

8 Knight Class Cruiser

16 Warrior Class Cruiser
16 Hoplite Class Cruiser
8 Bishop Class Carrier

16 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
8 Monk Class Escort Carrier

200 Squire Class Frigate
200 Page Class Frigate
150 Soldier Class Destroyer
100 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
50 Descent Class Destroyer

5 Shadow Class Destroyers

And this is what we had during Garkill's last attack.
1 Einherjar Class Command Battleship- "Fólkvangr"

2 Gurkha Grand Cruisers

4 Chevalier Heavy Cruisers

8 Knight Class Cruisers

16 Hoplite Class Cruisers
3 Praetorian Class Cruisers
18 Warrior Class Cruisers
8 Bishop Class Carriers

16 Youxia Class Escort Cruisers
18 Monk Class Escort Carriers

200 Squire Class Frigates
200 Page Class Frigates
365 Soldier Class Destroyers
100 Legionnaire Destroyers

50 Privateer Class Raiders
5 Shadow Class Destroyers

Imperial models:
1 Virtue-Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Overlord-class Battlecruisers
1 Luna-Class Cruisers
1 Dominator-Class Cruiser

3 Dauntless-Class Light Cruisers

3 Sword-class Frigates
4 Cobra-class Destroyers

I know we've gotten everything Vanaheim hadn't delivered for a while since then, and I know we've replaced the losses we had, and have also built some new stuff that wasn't in the original plan. Could someone go through the turns and get our current fleet composition so we can figure out which ships we'll most want to add?


@Enjou

I believe you should be coming here to be doing the plans? :p

Like I said, been busy. Doesn't help that work blocks SV now and I can't do plans while there even if it's a slow day.
 
Here's the initial plan for BUYING from Vanaheim, as per the recommendation of the admirals. I'll get to the SELLING in a second.

The plan here is to clear up the ship graveyard first for maximum cost-efficiency before we start building any ships from scratch.
FI = Fully Intact, MI = Mostly Intact, HD = Half Destroyed, MD = Mostly Destroyed

Firstly, "all of the defence cruisers"

11 MI Bastion Class Defence Cruisers = 11*187
5 MI + 15 HD Fortress Class Defence Cruisers = 5*187+15*313
10 MI + 11 HD Cathedral Class Defence Carrier = 10*187+11*313
8 MI + 5 HD Snare Class Defence Cruiser = 8*187+5*313
1 MI + 4 HD Castra Class Defence Cruiser

The "half a dozen other heavy cruisers". Note, from here on, I'm ordering twice as much as we actually want in order to compensate for the 50% tithe.
I'm going heavy on Chevaliers here because their Nova Cannons are best against Ork Hulks.

3 MI Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser = 3*1398
1 MI Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser = 1398
8 MI Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser = 8*1398

"Some more templars"

4 MI + 4 HD Templar Class Heavy Carrier = 4*1398+4*1,664

"three dozen cruisers and armored cruisers" - 36*2 cruisers, tipping toward armored and away from fast, as Vanaheim already provides a lot of speed to our fleets.

1 MI + 9 HD Knight Class Cruiser = 299+9*462
12 Mi Cataphract Class Cruiser = 12*299
12 Mi Kshatriya Class Cruiser = 12*299
10 Mi Samurai Class Cruiser = 10*299
6 MI Corsair Class Cruiser = 6*211
6 MI Poacher Class Cruiser = 6*211
6 MI Cossack Class Cruiser = 6*211
10 MI Acolyte Class Carrier = 10*211

"some light cruisers" - splitting the less destroyed ones evenly between ourselves and Vanaheim, just to be polite.

40 HD Youxia Class Escort Cruiser = 40*(no numbers, assuming around 280 credits)
3 FI + 15 MI + 25 MD + 60 MD Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser = 3*45+15*73+25*141+60*188
2 FI + 10 MI + 15 MD + 40 MD Adherent Class Light Carrier = 2*45+10*73+15*141+40*188

"a few hundred escorts"

200 HD Squire Class Frigate = 200*47
200 HD Page Class Frigate = 200*47
200 HD Privateer Class Raider = 200*35
109 MI + 91 HD Legionnaire Class Destroyer = 109*13+91*27
200 HD Soldier Class Destroyer = 200*27

I'll add all the credits together in a bit, but here it in case there's something you'd like to point out.
 
Yeah, but its a long one, so I'll write it up later.
Well I did say I'd write it up, so here we go.

So in order to spice up our campaign when we were generating back grounds (this was separate to our DH campaign though plenty of our GM's lore was similar) he let us take an additional bonus by selecting an enemy similar to how when generating a Space Marine in Death Watch you select an enemy.

Anyway, 3 out of 4 of us selected a Merchant Guild, the Sons of Levanthi, because we thought they'd be push overs.

Oh god were we wrong.

My character (a somewhat liberal tech priest explorer) had lead a heist on one of their vaults getting a very fancy DAoT las pistol, our Rogue trader had scammed one of the leaders out of a Goliath Fabricator and our shooty mc shooty person had lead a one man assault on an important refinery of theirs earning her a load of cash.

Needless to say we were not well liked by them, which resulted in them making our lives hell at every opportunity imaginable, slowing down our progress and worst, doing it completely ****ing legally.

For example they'd insist on making sure we had to go through ALL of the checks before we left Port Wonder if they could get to the people we had to bribe to leave fast. This meant that every stop on Port Wonder became a race to try and get in grab what we wanted and leave before they realised we were there and started causing us hell (like this one incredibly annoying time when they bought all of the Iron Ore on the station. Every. SINGLE. PIECE.)

It got to the point that we were buying things like swapoutable heads for our ship and drives that we could reconfigure to give off different frequencies to give us more time between stops.

And that was nothing compared to them trying to ensure that we would never be able to get the best Navigators, though we were able to eventually get around that by establishing a permanent contract with the House of the Area.

And of course they were always trying to get us in trouble for our semi legal activities like that one time they tried reporting us to the Inquisition for acquiring the Cold Trade artefacts to give to a different Inquisitor (that one back fired like hell on their part as the Two Inquisitors started causing each other no end of grief over that. I mean we still got paid, but still.)

Slightly less amusing was them bringing an entire battalion of Myrmidons on our heads because of "tech heresy." Please I was liberal not stupid.

Took a lot of checks and the deployment of the Callamus/Alpha argument before they stopped ripping our ship apart to find the tech heresy and the bastards STILL confiscated a decent chunk of my archeotech store... I mean sure it was the stuff I had copies off, but still the bastards.

Because of them we spent most of our time in the Kronus Expanse as far away from them as possible, which to be fair was incredibly profitable, as we made a bundle selling the locations of worlds, "requiring" artefacts, setting up colonies of our own and ****ing up pirates.
 
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Re: Selling to Vanaheim
Quick and rough calculations:
Vanaheim has 3732 slips to work with, half of which they're willing to put to work making ships for us. So about 1800 slips for us an them, and they're going to be busy at least 6 years with most of our 100 ordered escorts. Still, that leaves at least 1800 slips for 6 years + 2800 for 44 years if we don't order anything else. That's 134000 "slipyears". One escort is 3 slipyears. That's 44666 escorts they can get up and flying until the next high council meeting. We have 29000 escorts lying around after bying repairs for 1000 from Vanaheim.
So they could put ALL of our escort hulks to work, plus quite a bit more.

Now, I have to ask: Do we want to sell ALL available hulks that they can get up and running to Vanaheim? Because that's going to tip the balance of power quite a bit to Vanaheim. The trust as a whole would have a matching fleet, of course, and the inquisition should not be discounted either, but that's still a substantial boost for Vanaheim, so I have to ask.
And we can't occupy half the slips with Avernite orders. Because we need 1,5 million crew just for 500 new escorts, which could at the quickest arrive staggered over 5-6 years. We can train 130k crewmen every year besides the one's needed just to keep our existing navy supplied, that's only 780k crewmen - half of what we need, so our orders have to be staggered over even more time, which occupies even fewer of the Vanir slips with Avernite ordered ships.

Also, we should loan Alfheim some drill sergeants.
 
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Now, I have to ask: Do we want to sell ALL available hulks that they can get up and running to Vanaheim? Because that's going to tip the balance of power quite a bit to Vanaheim. The trust as a whole would have a matching fleet, of course, and the inquisition should not be discounted either, but that's still a substantial boost for Vanaheim, so I have to ask.
Depends.

IIRC we did donate a large portion of our debt to the Imperial navy to do with as they willed so I suppose we could do the same, donate it so that the Navy can buy more ships off the Vanir.
 
Vanaheim doesn't just repair half the hulks for their own fleet. The Imperial Trust buys a significant number of repaired hulks from them beyond the tithe - Vanaheim can't afford to maintain a fleet as big as the Imperial Trust can.
 
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