The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Zedman7054]

There's a couple things that need to be done ASAP (defense upgrades, orbital defenses, and the new EM forge when we can). Oh and power armor infantry. Otherwise I agree.

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Yeah, I understand that, I also understand that those are all things that have been the focus for the past couple of turns. What I'm saying is that once all of these things are done, we should slow down on taking expensive projects, primarily because we are about to go to war. And we will need large amounts of AM to rebuild our forces now once casualties start piling up, one of the prices to equipping so many soldiers with power armour. Don't forget that at the end of almost every campaign we have to spend large amounts of resources to replenish all the soldiers lost. Vanaheim's Governor isn't the only only who's gotten used to curbstomping whatever foe is in our way, but at least he has the excuse that he's hasn't had to deal with the massive casualties that Avernites take even in peace. Really, if there's not, there should be a passive drain on resources representing the material costs to passively replenish and reequip from the hundreds of thousands of casualties every year, and seriously upping that cost now that so many are in expensive suits of armour.

Do you know how close we are to producing all the AM we can use? The upgrade we are working on right now produces almost 3 million a year. That's just one Omnisiah, and it's not the largest upgrade in that branch. It is in the realm of possibility that at the next council meeting in 50 years we might not even need to trade for any AM, probably still will but it won't kill us not to.

Upgrade each small hive, 5 of them I think, to large forge hive then build the thing in each of th larges ones that don't have one. That's 7 times 2.8 million in am a turn for 12 more upgrades.

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I'm not saying we can't do that, but upgrading all those hives will take time and resources, things that will be in short supply in the coming years. The Trust doesn't have 50 years. They have around 5 before the Ork gods awaken. After that, the whole of the Trust will be fighting tooth and nail against the improved Ork hordes. Yes we can build up behind the assaults, but if resources aren't carefully managed, Avernus might be unable to maintain it's fighting forces at the time when it's needed the most.

 

[acerak]

First omake, would appreciate constructive criticism
Also, I'm half convinced there isn't enough AM in the galaxy to satisfy our needs

Spoiler: Omake - Comparative Advantage

Comparative Advantage. The idea that two nations can increase overall production and consumption by specializing in producing what they are good at, and trading for the rest.

Sometimes, it comes from material differences. Vanaheim has huge shipyards and a skilled naval workforce, so they build and maintain the Trust's fleet, while Alfheim produces much the food for the Imperial Trust, given their large farms and the history of farming there.

On other worlds, the specialization comes from old tradition. Asgard is a Knight World, with a history spanning back to the Dark Age of Technology. They still celebrate the day they swore allegiance the Emperor's Great Crusade. Svartalfheim has a long history of tech-artisanry and close relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus, having, for example, rites centered around crafting high quality technology for the Svartalf guard, their grenadiers.

This variety in specialization provides the Trust with a powerful advantage, since it can leverage all sorts of technology previously found only on fortress worlds such as Cadia, on roaming crusading forces, or part of an Inquisitor's retinue.

What does Helheim specialize in, however? It has a strong military and military tradition, but no one would claim that it could withstand the armies of Midgard, no matter how technologically superior it is or the natural training that arises from living on a death world commonly perceived as hostile, if not more, than Catachan. It has powerful technology, but Svartalfheim and Muspelheim wield better and more ancient technology than the current consensus believes could be found on Helheim. It is resource rich, but not more so than Nilfheim's or Jotunheim's promethium reserves or even Muspelheim's metal deposits.

No, Helheim specializes in Breaking.

A Blink Spider warps into an apartment, about to bite into human flesh. It is crushed under the hand of the child it was the about to bite, who goes back to playing with his toys.

Chaos cultists and rebels on a local colony attack a major Administratum center on the planet, unaware that the local militia is reinforced by the Helguard. By the time they realize that those are veteran soldiers, not barely trained recruits, it is too late. They fall under Impaler fire from a group less than a 1/10th of their size. Not a single casualty is taken, and the planet is taken back fast. The soldiers go back to their war games, where they can count on a tougher foe.

A daemon breaks into the Materium, attempting to assassinate the Governor. No doubt the resulting loss of morale and confusion will eventually provide billions of souls for Tzeench. As it approaches from behind, leaving no trace, Rotbart spins around and slices his blade into the daemon's neck, severing it. He summons a cleaning crew and priest and continues towards his daily briefing.

These feats, done on an uncommon but not rare basis, are awe inspiring. But humans are not content to sit still and stagnate, Avernites less so. They create better technology, or they create better Avernites.

Now, Blink Spiders face the jaws of SpiderBane Dragonflies, tamed and kept in hab-blocks as an additional defense.

Now, the Helguard are equipped with deadly Dark Age power armor, Neutron/Plasma/Gravity rifles, or missile launchers, providing a massive force multiplier given their original Cadian style training.

Now, Frederik Rotbart may count on the Governor's Own going toe to toe with a daemon and having a good chance of winning, equipped with reverse engineered power armor and plasma foils.

It doesn't work all the time, of course. The Black Irons are a well-trained, capable force, but they couldn't break the hold of the fungus on the civilians they were charged to protect. The 23rd Dis PDF were loyal troops, but even that did not stop the Sons of War from killing nearly all of them. The Red Tracks were nearly wiped out by Tyrant Lizards, despite their heroic efforts to protect the populace.

In each case, however, Avernus has come back stronger. The Black Irons mark their gloves black and fight harder. The 23rd Dis PDF comes back and fights harder, slaughtering 50 Khorne Beserkers. The Red Tracks comes back, with new and better tanks, and fight harder.

There is an ancient saying by an unknown Terran philosopher. "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Avernites understand their enemy, constantly fighting the local wildfile, cultists, Orks, etc. They understand themselves better, albeit indirectly. They know they can fight hard, and smash those who would hurt them. More importantly, they know that they can fail despite all efforts, and they feel those losses heavily. That you could die from a Blink Spider, or betrayed by Chaos worshippers, or slapped away by a powerful beast or Ork, or some other completely anti-climactic and unfulfilling death. Avernites know they can break, they see it around them all the time, in mind, body, or soul. They see how their comrades, familes, friends break. They see, each time, how fragile they truly are, and resolve to break less easily.

This lesson is not unique, with Cadia's Kasrs or Catachan's Jungle Fighters or 1000 other unknown human armies demonstrating otherwise. But Avernites is different. Avernites were the first to realize being easily broken just meant you knew how and how well your enemies broke.

 

[Dynamesmouse]

GENTLEMEN!

I'm the only one with a plan presented. This plan will leave us with a slight decrease/yr in EM (We have a big stockpile of it though, and we should be building a Ad Mech Temple that will boost it.

HOWEVER! This plan only only gives us a net AM income of 2.7M/yr, as opposed to 6M/yr. If we want to bring in lots of AM, we are going to have to go into large amounts of debt to Muspelheim or Nilfheim.

ALSO! What are our plans on Vanaheim's debt?


MUSPELHEIM
relationship:11/10
distance: 5 LY
Avernus owes Muspelheim 308,411 Cr

Can sell
26.2 Cr (0.08 Cargo)=1,000,000 Material per year (up to 1,000 times)
27.2 Cr (0. 08 Cargo)=1,000,000 Promethium per year (up to 1,000 times)
5.2 Cr (0 cargo)= 1,000,000 Thrones per year (up to 200 times)

Can buy
82.4 Cr (0 Cargo)=10 Exotic Material per year (up to 5,000 times)
58.6 Cr (0 Cargo)= 1,000 Advanced Material per year (up to 10,000 times)


NILFHEIM
relationship: 10/10
distance: 6 LY
Niflheim owes Avernus 258,545 Cr

Can Sell
6.6 Cr (0.02 Cargo)= 1,000,0000 Material per year (up to 2,000 times)
26.2 Cr (0.02 Cargo)=1,000,0000 Metal per year (up to 2,000 times)

Can Buy
59.2 Cr=1,000 Advanced Material per year (up to 15,000 times)
81.1 Cr=10 Exotic Material per year (up to 10,000 times)

Current plan is to purchase 2M AM/yr from Muspelheim, and 4M AM/yr from Nilfheim. This slightly increases our debt to Muspelheim, and cashes in Nilfheim's debt for AM. We could purchase up to 10M AM/yr from Muspelheim, and 15M AM/yr from Nilfheim, at the cost of endebting ourselves to them. I haven't heard anyone argue for or against this, and keep in mind our own AM income is about to jump in 3 turns from the Cathedral of the Omnissiah. It would cost 500,000 Cr to get 10M AM from Muspelheim, and 888,000 Cr to get 15M AM from Nilfheim, but that's only if we max out.

@Durin Is Byzantium not participating in the trade talks?

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

Current plan is to purchase 2M AM/yr from Muspelheim, and 4M AM/yr from Nilfheim. This slightly increases our debt to Muspelheim, and cashes in Nilfheim's debt for AM. We could purchase up to 10M AM/yr from Muspelheim, and 15M AM/yr from Nilfheim, at the cost of endebting ourselves to them. I haven't heard anyone argue for or against this, and keep in mind our own AM income is about to jump in 3 turns from the Cathedral of the Omnissiah. It would cost 500,000 Cr to get 10M AM from Muspelheim, and 888,000 Cr to get 15M AM from Nilfheim, but that's only if we max out.

Click to shrink...

I still say that we can and should get more AM. Remember, debt isn't bad per say. Also, get Max thrones from Vanahiem in addition to whatever else we do. We need to start cashing out that debt.

 

[Dynamesmouse]

I still say that we can and should get more AM. Remember, debt isn't bad per say. Also, get Max thrones from Vanahiem in addition to whatever else we do. We need to start cashing out that debt.

Click to shrink...

This is funny to me.

I did the numbers, we're good for Thrones. Really.

DarknessSmiles was kind enough to post the our base incomes (our numbers without trade). We have large stockpiles of Thrones, Promethium, and Food. We have modest stockpiles of Material, Metal, and Exotic Material.

Vanaheim owes us 1.4M Cr, and taking a billion Thrones from Vanaheim leaves them owing 1.39M Cr.

I keep asking for people's thoughts on Vanaheim's debt, and how they're going to pay it off. What ships should we buy?

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

This is funny to me.

I did the numbers, we're good for Thrones. Really.

DarknessSmiles was kind enough to post the our base incomes (our numbers without trade). We have large stockpiles of Thrones, Promethium, and Food. We have modest stockpiles of Material, Metal, and Exotic Material.

Vanaheim owes us 1.4M Cr, and taking a billion Thrones from Vanaheim leaves them owing 1.39M Cr.

I keep asking for people's thoughts on Vanaheim's debt, and how they're going to pay it off. What ships should we buy?

Click to shrink...

The problem is that we can't possibly support a large enough navy to have them pay off our debt. What we should really do is sell the debt to Nilfheim and Muspelheim because that's how trade works instead of the weird pseudo-barter system we have now. This is literally a textbook economic problem called coincidence of wants.

@Durin, is selling some of Vanahiem's debt feasible?

 

[guyfromtheplace1]

The problem is that we can't possibly support a large enough navy to have them pay off our debt. What we should really do is sell the debt to Nilfheim and Muspelheim because that's how trade works instead of the weird pseudo-barter system we have now. This is literally a textbook economic problem called coincidence of wants.

@Durin, is selling some of Vanahiem's debt feasible?

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I would think maybe? Nifleheim isn't that interested in anything Vanaheim can sell(they're hiding something beyond the obvious and beyond what's been hinted at so far), Musphelheim wants orbital defences and fortified habitats that they could buy off of Vanaheim, but already owns a chunk of Vanaheim's debt and doesn't particularly want them faster than their population can grow to fill them.

Honestly I think the issue is being handled wrong if we want to keep those shipyards running, what should really be happening is the Imperial trust as a body should be using most or all of the slips, and should buy most of the ship graveyard off of us for the stuff we need, which they will get (waves hand) somehow, through the magic of taxes and being able to hire fulltime economists and being an extremely reliable creditor.
And should honestly be buying most of our fleet and especially the Vanir fleet off of the planetary systems.

None of that is going to happen soon, so we should instead just not be afraid of going into debt for now, so long as we don't approach the million credit mark and keep investing resources, time and Mechanicus unrest into increasing production we're probably good.

 

[Angelform]

ALSO! What are our plans on Vanaheim's debt?

Click to shrink...

Spend it on ships. Preferably those large ones that we cannot build ourselves. Clear out the graveyard at long last?

The problem is that we can't possibly support a large enough navy to have them pay off our debt.

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It will take several decades for them to deliver the ships we buy. As we have bigger forges in the pipeline we will be able to support a larger fleet before it arrives.

Worst comes to worst we can later sell some of it to the colonies.

 

[Dark as Silver]

The problem is that we're a command economy rather than a market one. Worse, we are effectively operating on a barter economy rather than a monetary one. This makes things clunky, especially when it comes to multiparty trade.

Next, the way everyone is acting around here indicates a massive misunderstanding of how economics works. To whit, Mercantilism is stupid, the way the news media talks about trade is stupid, and if Bertil Mikaelsson actually thinks that Vanahiem's debt to Avernus is bad, I'm certainly willing to take him for all he's worth.

I mean look what happened. Vanahiem bought a ton of hulks from Avernus and thus Avernus has the advantage over Vanahiem right?

Wrong. Remember, Avernus is the only other trust world with anything resembling decent shipyards and Vanahiem was pretty worried about our rising shipbuilding ability. Then Olaf convinced us, his only rival in the shipbuilding industry, to deficit finance an unprecedented expansion of Vanahiem's orbital industry. I mean, sure we went along with it because he was better positioned to expand his shipyards, but still his nobles should have been holding banquets in his honor, not complaining about the debt.

So, if Bertil wants to reduce his planet's debt, that's fine by me. Anytime one of the AM or EM producers want to buy a ship, buy from us, or charge it to our card in Vanahiem. In return, We'll rake in the AM and EM, and keep our metal, thrones and Material to expand our own economy. And in return Vanahiem will spend a bunch of resources to owe us less money.

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Actually speaking of the barter based economy. Is there some kind of enforcement of debt or is it just a gentlemans agreement?

We didn't nationalize all of the merchant marine in the area, but I think we nationalized all the navigators, I don't know know if the author ever intended to implement some kind of system for what the privately owned merchant marine flotilla's are doing. Maybe they just avoid our system because the quarantine freaks them out?

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Sounds like it'd fall under the category of aren't you already making me do enough? And Durin crying. That said a polity based around a rogue trader and a convoy of ships and people from planets that are falling or collapsing petty imperiums sounds pretty cool and the closest you'll get.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Actually speaking of the barter based economy. Is there some kind of enforcement of debt or is it just a gentlemans agreement?

Click to shrink...

Probably sanctions from the council, Inquisition interference stuff like that.

 

[Andres]

Baktri
Segmentum: Pacificus
Recruiting World +2
Minor Ork infestation -2
Dangerous region - there are Orks (-2), pirates (-1), Chaos (-3) in the sector
Military Tradition +2
Ties with the forge +2
Ties with the Imperial branch (Sisters of Battle) +1
Very Heavily Fortified +4
Disciplined- Small boost to combat

++Thought for the Day: Hate the heretic. Kill the heretic."


Baktri is a temperate world whose landmass is mostly comprised of tall mountains and wide valleys between them connected by narrow mountain passes - some natural and some man-made. The terrain of the valleys vary between rolling hills, open grassland, and forest. Within the valleys are dense pockets of human civilisation with many forts between them to protect against ork incursion, with the ones protecting the passes to other valleys being the most guarded.

Baktri's history during the Age of the Imperium was one of a feudal world constantly at war with the orks native to the planet. The ferocity of orks in close combat combined with their greater numbers made them a very challenging opponent. The Baktrian civilisations adapted by adopting strategies reliant on combined arms, formation fighting, rapid response, tactical flexibility, and enforcing the very high degree discipline required to make it all work. This military proficiency made Baktri an attractive recruiting world for fleet-based Space Marine chapters.

Immediately prior to the Emperor's death, a Charybdis warning was sent out for all ships to drop out of the Warp immediately. This reached some ships later than others. One particular fleet had heard it very late and only a single ship out of the entire fleet survived after dropping out into the Baktri system, and even then it was a violent exit. With the continued functionality of the life support system being questionable, even after the ministrations of the tech priests, it was decided that the most prudent course of action would be to shuttle down the entirety of the crew down to Baktria with dropships. After that, a fortress base of adequate size was quickly erected by the large contingent of tech priests that was aboard the ship while the perimeter was protected from the orks by a Preceptory of the Burning Thorns - a descendant of the Order of the Bloody Rose who specialise in the use of attack bikes.

The following few decades saw a great deal of change over Baktri. With the fall of the Imperium and the state of the galaxy as it was, it was decided by the starfaring Imperial remnants to uplift the technological level of the Baktrians in order to repel invasion. To this end, the Burning Thorns would go to a human civilisation, coordinate with the forces there to wipe out the nearby orks, bring in the tech priests, then repeat the process in the next one. Eventually, the entire planet was taken to an Imperial-level of defensive capabilities and population while the ork presence on the world had been made into a minor one.

***
The Order of the Burning Thorns - or at least the Preceptory on Baktri - was one of the few Orders of the Sisters of Battle to remain uncorrupted by the Abomination. This is largely due to three factors:
-Firstly, the what relics of the Burning Thorns remained blessed by the Emperor's power reacted with the same hostility to the Abomination as with all the other Chaos Gods.
-Secondly, the lack of contact with the Warp meant that possible vectors for corruption were very limited.
-Thirdly, the lack of juvenat meant that there was a relatively high turnover rate for the Sisters on Baktri, especially since new recruits would come from civilisations who would inevitably have had to deal with Abomination-corrupted psykers and cultists.

In the modern day, the Order of the Burning Thorns continues to act as strong-willed elite troops whose shock attacks and rapid mobility make them very powerful warriors. Their ferocity in battle and bravery making them deadly enemies and an inspiration to those on their side while the influence of Baktrian culture ensures that they are tempered with an iron discipline that further sharpens their will and battlefield effectiveness.

 

[atrophy]

guys fleet expansions are cheap compared to our power armor bill , apparently the durin request costs like 20k am a year wich is peanuts for like 500 ships guys and not getting many bigger ships and vanaheim will be able to handle it. We should deffo get those since it is a request and we can handle it + the defence cruisers should be done for cheaper defense upgrade and using credits properly since we can get horrific amount of credits from the rest of graveyard and we should sell them some metal aswell to help. Maybe if u wanna spend credits and want makework for vanaheim with our credits we could build defense cruisers for the colonies with them in certain amount.

We should consider getting either the well running as a 2nd command ship for us and/Or get a squadron of battleships and go for even further stealth stuff in having them restoring our graveyard stealth ship with maybe the stealth battleship be considered aswell as the flag ship of our stealth fleet?

 

[Andres]

5. I'm not a tech priest, but I'm pretty sure the Callamus/Alpharian argument will stand.

Click to shrink...

What Callamus/Alpharian argument?

 

[Doomed Wombat]

What Callamus/Alpharian argument?

Click to shrink...

"TIS I! ARCHMAGOS ALPHA!"

Archmagos Alpharian Domini, of the Auxilia Myrmidon. Finest weaponsmith in the galaxy. If anyone could make the greatest boltgun that would ever exist, it would be this man.

"ARCHMAGOS!" Osiron bellows at the top of his voice. "TIS I!"

"YES! IT IS YOU, OSIRON!"

"YES!"

"YES!"

"YES!"

Click to shrink...

"SPLENDID! Then we have an agreement!" He frowns, or does the closest approximation thereof. "A Bolt Sniper Rifle will be an excellent challenge! All the range and power of the Exitus and all the versatility of a boltgun! IT WILL BE MAGNIFICENT!"

"Archmagos," one of his Skitarii guards - a heavily-augmented Guardswoman, as it turns out - coughs. "That would be tech-heresy."

"No, it would be Tech-Heresy - mind the capital letters - if we FABRICATED the design out of THIN AIR! Here, we've creatively reinterpreted another existing fragment to reveal this marvel of a weapon! THERE! NOT TECH-HERESY!"

Click to shrink...

BUT OF COURSE!!!

More seriously the argument is as far as I can tell the Admech's main problem is creating things out of thin air rather than creating nothing at all.

The callamus side of the argument was giving a Martian techpriest the satisfactory answer of "we've been combining what we have in unique ways" and the ALPHA argument is "I've merely re-imagined something different out of the STC revealing this."

While I imagine a conservative that doesn't want any innovation at all would call BS people like Palidus apparently are willing to take advantage of this loop hole.

 

[AlsoSprachOdin]

I keep asking for people's thoughts on Vanaheim's debt, and how they're going to pay it off. What ships should we buy?

Click to shrink...

We had a bit of a discussion about that a few pages ago, but the short of it is "as many as we can crew possibly". And we don't know how many that is.
@Durin
1. How many crewmen can we train PER YEAR (or per TURN if you prefer that time-unit, let's be clear about these things)?
2. How many slips are Vanaheim willing to dedicate to building ships for Avernus?

Until Durin comes back about that, I'll draw up a list based on our Admiral's recommendations, assuming that that's "crew-able". I'll also write another list for what more ships we'll want besides that, which we can if necessary space out over time.

[EDIT] Actually, half of what we buy here gets tithed to the Trust navy, right? Or was it some other number? Help me out here, guys.
Doubling our order to compensate for the tithe would require more than half the Vanaheim slips. That might be a problem.

 

[Darkcrest]

honestly I feel let Vanaheim's debt stay as it is or grow it some make Olaf look better and keep a lid on the governor who views politics as a zero sum game

 

[AlsoSprachOdin]

honestly I feel let Vanaheim's debt stay as it is or grow it some make Olaf look better and keep a lid on the governor who views politics as a zero sum game

Click to shrink...

Oh, that's just petty! Seriously petty politics, far from team-work. Bertil is going to know what that's about and respond in kind. If we work with him, he'll be reasonable, whereas this is just going to foster worse relations.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Oh, that's just petty! Seriously petty politics, far from team-work. Bertil is going to know what that's about and respond in kind. If we work with him, he'll be reasonable, whereas this is just going to foster worse relations.

Click to shrink...

Its only petty if we do it deliberately really

 

[Durin]

To an extent I feel that this whole debate is missing the main point of the trade. I advise you to stop, think about everything the trade does in real terms and then restart the debate.
Usually I try to not get involved but as far as I can see everyone involved has missed a massive point. I will not tell you what it is but I will say that there is one, and you should be able to figure it out.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

To an extent I feel that this whole debate is missing the main point of the trade. I advise you to stop, think about everything the trade does in real terms and then restart the debate.
Usually I try to not get involved but as far as I can see everyone involved has missed a massive point. I will not tell you what it is but I will say that there is one, and you should be able to figure it out.

Click to shrink...

Oh god oh god oh god...

Paranoia overload!!!

Still what does trade do in real terms.

Move important stuff from point A to point B.

We want AM Vanahiem want's metal?

 

[AlsoSprachOdin]

To an extent I feel that this whole debate is missing the main point of the trade. I advise you to stop, think about everything the trade does in real terms and then restart the debate.
Usually I try to not get involved but as far as I can see everyone involved has missed a massive point. I will not tell you what it is but I will say that there is one, and you should be able to figure it out.

Click to shrink...

Alright, going to take a break about the ships, but in the mean-time I have to point out
@Durin
1: There's no price on half destroyed Youxia Class Escort Cruisers

 

[AlsoSprachOdin]

It might be our Materials stockpile, which took a ridiculous hit last turn. -53.14%.
And we can apparently sell knight titans to Asgard. I don't know where they are coming from, or their exact model, didn't even know we had knight-titans, but we might want to do that if it means more giant robots in the Trust.

 

[Durin]

@Durin - a few questions on Warships...
1. Do our naval advisors have any particular ships they want purchased from Vanaheim to supplement our existing fleet?
2. Do our naval advisors have any thought on selling the Hyper Carrier VS buying it for ourselves VS buying it to tithe to the Trust so we could get a Legend Class Dreadnought built at some point in the future?
3. Not a question, but a note - we "bought" the Sword of Sutur (Vajra class) back in the Turn 78 Trade and tithed it to the Trust for credit on a future command battleship, but it's still in this update's list of stuff we could be and sell. I imagine that Vanaheim should have finished repairing it by now given how powerful and useful the Command Battleships are. The current remaining big ships we have needing repair should be the Hyper Carrier, the Well of Urd, and the Gravitic Array Command Battleship, the latter of the two which we still need to do some research for.

Click to shrink...

2. they tell you that it would fit anyof the three fleets well, so it is up to you
3. correct, modified

GENTLEMEN!

I'm the only one with a plan presented. This plan will leave us with a slight decrease/yr in EM (We have a big stockpile of it though, and we should be building a Ad Mech Temple that will boost it.

HOWEVER! This plan only only gives us a net AM income of 2.7M/yr, as opposed to 6M/yr. If we want to bring in lots of AM, we are going to have to go into large amounts of debt to Muspelheim or Nilfheim.

ALSO! What are our plans on Vanaheim's debt?


MUSPELHEIM
relationship:11/10
distance: 5 LY
Avernus owes Muspelheim 308,411 Cr

Can sell
26.2 Cr (0.08 Cargo)=1,000,000 Material per year (up to 1,000 times)
27.2 Cr (0. 08 Cargo)=1,000,000 Promethium per year (up to 1,000 times)
5.2 Cr (0 cargo)= 1,000,000 Thrones per year (up to 200 times)

Can buy
82.4 Cr (0 Cargo)=10 Exotic Material per year (up to 5,000 times)
58.6 Cr (0 Cargo)= 1,000 Advanced Material per year (up to 10,000 times)


NILFHEIM
relationship: 10/10
distance: 6 LY
Niflheim owes Avernus 258,545 Cr

Can Sell
6.6 Cr (0.02 Cargo)= 1,000,0000 Material per year (up to 2,000 times)
26.2 Cr (0.02 Cargo)=1,000,0000 Metal per year (up to 2,000 times)

Can Buy
59.2 Cr=1,000 Advanced Material per year (up to 15,000 times)
81.1 Cr=10 Exotic Material per year (up to 10,000 times)

Current plan is to purchase 2M AM/yr from Muspelheim, and 4M AM/yr from Nilfheim. This slightly increases our debt to Muspelheim, and cashes in Nilfheim's debt for AM. We could purchase up to 10M AM/yr from Muspelheim, and 15M AM/yr from Nilfheim, at the cost of endebting ourselves to them. I haven't heard anyone argue for or against this, and keep in mind our own AM income is about to jump in 3 turns from the Cathedral of the Omnissiah. It would cost 500,000 Cr to get 10M AM from Muspelheim, and 888,000 Cr to get 15M AM from Nilfheim, but that's only if we max out.

@Durin Is Byzantium not participating in the trade talks?

Click to shrink...

no, it is currently self sufficient without any major surpluses

We had a bit of a discussion about that a few pages ago, but the short of it is "as many as we can crew possibly". And we don't know how many that is.
@Durin
1. How many crewmen can we train PER YEAR (or per TURN if you prefer that time-unit, let's be clear about these things)?
2. How many slips are Vanaheim willing to dedicate to building ships for Avernus?

Until Durin comes back about that, I'll draw up a list based on our Admiral's recommendations, assuming that that's "crew-able". I'll also write another list for what more ships we'll want besides that, which we can if necessary space out over time.

[EDIT] Actually, half of what we buy here gets tithed to the Trust navy, right? Or was it some other number? Help me out here, guys.
Doubling our order to compensate for the tithe would require more than half the Vanaheim slips. That might be a problem.

Click to shrink...

1. 300k, 170k of which is used for replacements and some more of which is used to crew new orbital defences
2. half of them

I will give a hint, what effect does you selling the ships or buying them from Vanaheim have, and what effect does you not doing anything have. also what is the man concern of the Trust
that is as clear as I am willing to go

 

[Andres]

There were merchant guilds.

Oh boy the merchant guilds.

Bunch of price gouging bastards.

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Is there a story behind this?

@Enjou, when we get the chance, can we have Ridcully do Divination (planets of interest)? Some of the polities made by polity omakes would be very good to find out about.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I will give a hint, what effect does you selling the ships or buying them from Vanaheim have, and what effect does you not doing anything have. also what is the man concern of the Trust

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The obvious effect is increasing the number of high powered war ships that the Trust possesses, however us buying them reduces the difference in fire power in void between us and the Vanir, but it also cements the Vanir's position and reduces their debt.

The effect of us doing nothing is that the debt is going to slowly increase and the Vanir are going to get more and more pissy.

The main concern of the Trust as far as I can tell is survival and building more ships directly contributes to that.

Is there a story behind this?

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Yeah, but its a long one, so I'll write it up later.

Sweeeet Cult of Sollex is canon.