The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Durin]

I am personally on the fence over Angelsteel. The APA designs cover the Relic cost of the Cathedrals, but the Defense Cruisers so just so highly valued.

@Durin, is there a limit to how many Relic Credits we can convert into normal ones?

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no

 

[ArchAIngel]

On the other hand, Food and Medical isn't something that many of our potential enemies would find particularly interesting at first glance. The smarter ones would care, but they would have greater concerns in the face of the impending Beast apocalypse.

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"Yeah, yeah, more food, great, NOW SHOOT THE FUCKING ORKS DAMNIT."

It is useful to have a unifying force~

 

[vsh]

Too fast for what?

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I think there will be a huge internal debate of whether we are worthy of their angelsteel or not. We are already being generous in that deal; being too generous may backfire politically. It'll not be very bad but may delay next trade by a few turns. We may promise to give them upgraded terminator armor when we're done with it. Actually it's a good idea.
@Durin is the promise to give them upgraded terminator armor when we finish it worth something?

 

[ShadowNic94]

Made some edits to my plan.

..... is there a moratorium for this going on? I thought that was only for regular turns.

Throwing my hat in the ring. Basically keeping to our discussed plan with some extras for Everything they have bar the Angelsteel. With some extra credit for us at the end.

[_] Plan ShadowNic94

Blood Dragon's Are Offering

3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5000 Credits= Use of 1,000 Merchantman and Navigator until 1 year before Ork Gods awakening (max 1,000)

(total 30 Relic Credits, 23,000 Credits)

You are willing to offer
1,694 Credits = +847% of General STCs (max 1,847.76 or 847 if you stay to Imperial)
1,500 Credits = +150% Medical STCs (max 220 or 150 if you stay to Imperial)
1,140 Credits = +76% of Food Production STCs (max 76.5 or 20 if you stay to Imperial)
1,000 Credits= +50% of Advanced Material Production STCs (max 660.75 or 50 if you stay to Imperial)
250 Credits= +10% of Exotic Material Production STCs (max 263 or 10 if you stay to Imperial)

1,000 Credits= Royal Basilisk

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

2,500 Credits= 500 Fell-Call Tank (up to 500)

(total 37 Relic Credits and 17,084 Credits > Convert 5 RC into 10,000 C > 32 Relic Credits and 27,084 Credits)

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[Angelform]

Durin makes a good point about this setting the tone for future relations. I do not want to give the impression that we care more about keeping secrets than about our mutual survival. Thus I give you:

[X] Plan full trade

Buy:
3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
20 Relic Credits= Angelsteel (near unbreakable RM metal)
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5 Credits= Use of 1 Merchantman and Naviagtor until 1 year before Ork Gods awakening X 1000
(total 50 Relic Credits, 23,000 Credits)

Sell:
2 Credits= +1% of General STCs X 1,847.76
10 Credits= +1% Medical STCs X 220
15 Credits= +1% of Food Production STCs X 76.5
20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs X 360.95
25 Credits= +1% of Exotic Material Production STCs X 10

40 Credits= Improved IFF
1,000 Credits= Even better Factory Automation
500 Credits= More Efficient Engines
1,250 Credits= Improved Mining Excavator
3,000 Credits= Very Advanced Hydroponics
100 Credits= Lower Mass Alloy

500 Credits= Very Advanced-mag lav Trains
100 Credits= Auto-Doc Bed
500 Credits= High Bandwith Vox

2 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Adamantine Forges
6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges

1,000 Credits= Royal Basalisk

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

5 Credits= 1 Fell-Call Tank X 500

Convert 10,000 Credits to 10 Relic Credits
(total 50 Relic Credits, 23,000 Credits.)

Spoiler: things we are NOT selling

20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs X 299.8
25 Credits= +1% of Exotic Material Production STCs X 253
10 Credits= Faster Cognator
50 Credits= Super-Tough Cognator

Spoiler: my workings, feel free to check for mathematical errors

all of the Imperial Era STCs, Royal Basilisks, Astartes Advanced Power Armors
Currently being considered is allowing Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use to be traded as well as providing Fell Class
=
2 Credits= +1% of General STCs (847% =1694c)
10 Credits= +1% Medical STCs (150% =1500c)
15 Credits= +1% of Food Production STCs (20% =300c)
20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs (50% = 1000c)
25 Credits= +1% of Exotic Material Production STCs (10% = 250c)
Total = 4744c

1,000 Credits= Royal Basalisk

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace
Total = 17rc

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

5 Credits= 1 Fell-Call Tank (500 =2500c)

Full total = 37rc and10,244
Buy total = 50rc and 18,000c
Deficit = 13rc and 7756c

2 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Adamantine Forges
6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges
8rc and 6000c

Still need 5rc and 1756
1rc = 2000c
thus need 11756c

40 Credits= Improved IFF
1,000 Credits= Even better Factory Automation
500 Credits= More Efficient Engines
1,250 Credits= Improved Mining Excavator
3,000 Credits= Very Advanced Hydroponics
100 Credits= Lower Mass Alloy
500 Credits= Very Advanced-mag lav Trains
100 Credits= Auto-Doc Bed
500 Credits= High Bandwith Vox
Total = 6990
Still need 4766

2 Credits= +1% of General STCs (1000.76% = 2000c)
10 Credits= +1% Medical STCs (70% = 700c)
15 Credits= +1% of Food Production STCs (56.5% = 847c)
20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs (610.75% = 12,215c)
25 Credits= +1% of Exotic Material Production STCs (253% = 6325c )
Thus
2 Credits= +1% of General STCs (1000.76% = 2000c)
10 Credits= +1% Medical STCs (70% = 700c)
15 Credits= +1% of Food Production STCs (56.5% = 847c)
20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs (60.95% = 1219c)
Total = 4766c
Tech cost balanced

Also want:
5 Credits= Use of 1 Merchantman and Naviagtor until 1 year before Ork Gods awakening (1,000 ships =5000c)

20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs (250% =5000c)

 

[Enjou]

@Durin - What do the council and the AdMech think about this possible trade?

Spoiler: Draft

Buy: Everything

Sell:
1800 Credits= 900 General STCs
1850 Credits= 185 Medical STCs
600 Credits= 40 Food STCs
10,0000 Credits= 500 Advanced Material Production STCs
5,000 Credits= 200 Exotic Material Production STCs

10 Credits= Faster Cogitator
50 Credits= Super-Tough Cogitator
40 Credits= Improved IFF
1,000 Credits= Even better Factory Automation
500 Credits= More Efficient Engines
1,250 Credits= Improved Mining Excavator
3,000 Credits= Very Advanced Hydroponics
100 Credits= Lower Mass Alloy

500 Credits= Very Advanced-Mag Lev Trains
100 Credits= Auto-Doc Bed
500 Credits= High Bandwith Vox

2 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Adamantine Forges
6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges

1,000 Credits= Royal Basalisk

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

2,500 Credits= 500 Fell-Series Tanks

50 Relic Credits, 27,750 Credits

Rationale: We want to be generous here to boost relations by giving them more than we're getting, and this plan gives almost 5,000 Credits more than that - since it looks like they're going to convert to the New Imperial Truth we can extend more trust than we might otherwise have. We're giving them massive boosts in AM and EM since those are going to be necessary for them to build up their fleets and orbital defenses quickly, though not quite to the Trust's relative level, and some boosts beyond Imperial in the other sections of general STCs. Most of the named STCs that weren't on the original deal are also things that the Orks would be likely to capture examples of anyways (and in some cases have, like the efficient engines), so there's not as much risk in giving the Dragon's Nest a boost with them.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

@Angelform

I like your plan, but I think you are being waaaaaay to generous.

They're screwing us remember, so lets min max the hell out of this.

Currently Enjou has my vote.

 

[ShadowNic94]

@Durin What is the High Council's and the AdMech's opinion on this trade;

Spoiler: Possible Trade Plan

Buy
3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5000 Credits= Use of 1,000 Merchantman and Navigator until 1 year before Ork Gods awakening

(Total 30 Relic Credits, 23,000 Credits)

Sell
1,694 Credits = 847 General STCs
1,500 Credits = 150 Medical STCs
1,140 Credits = 76 Food Production STCs
1,000 Credits = 50 Advanced Material Production STCs
250 Credits = 10 Exotic Material Production STCs

50 Credits = Super-Tough Cognator
40 Credits = Improved IFF
1,000 Credits = Even better Factory Automation
500 Credits = More Efficient Engines
1,250 Credits = Improved Mining Excavator
3,000 Credits = Very Advanced Hydroponics
100 Credits = Lower Mass Alloy

500 Credits= Very Advanced-mag lav Trains
100 Credits= Auto-Doc Bed
500 Credits= High Bandwidth Vox

1,000 Credits = Royal Basilisk

5 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

2,500 Credits = 500 Fell-Call Tank

(Total 37 Relic Credits and 18,124 Credits > Convert 3 RC into 6,000 C > 34 Relic Credits and 24,124 Credits)
(1,124 Banked)

 

[Piren'e Colass]

Enjous plan looks good to me. Perhaps we could sell things with the same caveat to deployment that we use for our own colonies.

Keep in mind that when they have the STCs they are also going to want to stop them spreading, and to keep the edge against chaos for as long as possible. This means that they will be careful in deploying them anyway.

Also, @Durin, do they have any extremely high population hive world's? If they have a world dramatically more populated than Midgard, or a warp touched world forming a branch of the telepathica there might be viable.

 

[nat_401]

If they have a world dramatically more populated than Midgard, or a warp touched world forming a branch of the telepathica there might be viable.

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The BD librarians would be performing all the duties of the telepathica already, I doubt they need or want us trying to involve ourselves in something they have been doing since the imperium fell.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Also, @Durin, do they have any extremely high population hive world's? If they have a world dramatically more populated than Midgard, or a warp touched world forming a branch of the telepathica there might be viable.

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They don't trust us enough to sell us Technomancy, never mind let us set up a branch of the telepathica.

The BD librarians would be performing all the duties of the telepathica already, I doubt they need or want us trying to involve ourselves in something they have been doing since the imperium fell.

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This too.

 

[Piren'e Colass]

The BD librarians would be performing all the duties of the telepathica already, I doubt they need or want us trying to involve ourselves in something they have been doing since the imperium fell.

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Our telepathica is astoundingly large and advanced. We have multiple pskyer cities for thrones sake. I would have thought that at least advice and training techniques from our telepathica would be desirable.

Aside from warpy business, would they be interested in setting up an Astartes training facility on Averneus, as it would provide fresh recruits with easy access to very real war. Whether it would be a better option than a deathworld they might own is up in the air though.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Our telepathica is astoundingly large and advanced. We have multiple pskyer cities for thrones sake. I would have thought that at least advice and training techniques from our telepathica would be desirable.

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And they don't trust us enough to be messing around teaching them stuff from the warp.

Paranoid, but paranoid with reason.

 

[OmegaS]

@Durin, if we sold them the Forge designs, would they be willing to consider that as credit towards a future purchase of Angelsteel?

 

[nat_401]

Our telepathica is astoundingly large and advanced. We have multiple pskyer cities for thrones sake. I would have thought that at least advice and training techniques from our telepathica would be desirable.

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The idea of psyker cities founded by the guys who fell out of a warp storm would of made the BD shit themselves and hold crisis meetings about the issue, its not a concept that they would easily take too.
Edit: That's if we told them about the psyker cities already, it's probably a very difficult issue to bring up.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

@Durin, if we sold them the Forge designs, would they be willing to consider that as credit towards a future purchase of Angelsteel?

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IIRC they're not taking credit, anything not spent won't be retained.

I think the quote is somewhere nearby, but I can't find it ATM.

Found it

13) Will we be able to use surplus credit later?

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13. no

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[Enjou]

I'm just going to go ahead and post my plan, and I'll edit it later if Durin gives some feedback that indicates I should.

[X] Plan Generous Trade

BUY
3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
20 Relic Credits= Angelsteel (near unbreakable RM metal)
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5,000 Credits= Use of 1,000 Merchantmen and Naviagtors until 1 year before Ork Gods awakening (max 1,000)

TOTAL: 50 Relic Credits, 23,000 Credits

SELL:
1800 Credits= 900 General STCs
1850 Credits= 185 Medical STCs
600 Credits= 40 Food STCs
10,0000 Credits= 500 Advanced Material Production STCs
5,000 Credits= 200 Exotic Material Production STCs

10 Credits= Faster Cogitator
50 Credits= Super-Tough Cogitator
40 Credits= Improved IFF
1,000 Credits= Even better Factory Automation
500 Credits= More Efficient Engines
1,250 Credits= Improved Mining Excavator
3,000 Credits= Very Advanced Hydroponics
100 Credits= Lower Mass Alloy

500 Credits= Very Advanced-Mag Lev Trains
100 Credits= Auto-Doc Bed
500 Credits= High Bandwith Vox

2 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Adamantine Forges
6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges

1,000 Credits= Royal Basalisk

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

2,500 Credits= 500 Fell-Series Tanks

TOTAL: 50 Relic Credits, 27,750 Credits

 

[nat_401]

[X] Plan Generous Trade

 

[Angelform]

I like your plan, but I think you are being waaaaaay to generous.

They're screwing us remember, so lets min max the hell out of this.

Currently Enjou has my vote.

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Enjou is being more generous than myself.
The main difference is that he is giving them more AM and EM production (the things we are most concerned with keeping secret) rather than more of the general/medical/food tech as well as giving them the research buffing Cogitators.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

[X] Plan Generous Trade

I can live with this plan... reluctantly.

Enjou and myself are being equally generous, we are both getting everything and paying no more than needed to do so.
The difference is that he is giving them more AM and EM production (the things we are most concerned with keeping secret) rather than more of the general/medical/food tech as well as giving them the research buffing Cogitators.

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The cogitators do not buff research I made the same mistake myself

first the cogitators mentioned do not provide research bonuses

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They only give a bonus to AA and make them tougher

He also gives them less over all as far as I can tell.

 

[ShadowNic94]

@Durin Can Relic Credits be converted to regular Credits?

 

[Enjou]

He also gives them less over all as far as I can tell.

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I'm giving them a lot more in terms of AM and EM production. Not the max, but still a massive boost.

20 Credits= +1% of Advanced Material Production STCs X 360.95
25 Credits= +1% of Exotic Material Production STCs X 10

Click to shrink...

10,0000 Credits= 500 Advanced Material Production STCs
5,000 Credits= 200 Exotic Material Production STCs

Click to shrink...

EM, I will note, is extremely important for making ships. Upping their EM production allows them to actually make more Defence Cruisers and whatnot.

@Durin Can Relic Credits be converted to regular Credits?

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He already answered they can, but honestly I don't see much point in doing so.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

@Durin Can Relic Credits be converted to regular Credits?

Click to shrink...

Yes

1. Can we turn 1 relic credit into 2000 normal credits?

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1. yes

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I'm giving them a lot more in terms of AM and EM production. Not the max, but still a massive boost.

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But less material stcs ect.

 

[ShadowNic94]

The main idea is to follow the plan we established before with some small extras for everything the BDs have bar the Angelsteel.

[X] Plan ShadowNic94

Buy
3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5000 Credits= Use of 1,000 Merchantman and Navigator until 1 year before Ork Gods awakening

(Total 30 Relic Credits, 23,000 Credits)

Sell
1,694 Credits = 847 General STCs
1,500 Credits = 150 Medical STCs
1,140 Credits = 76 Food Production STCs
1,000 Credits = 50 Advanced Material Production STCs
250 Credits = 10 Exotic Material Production STCs

50 Credits = Super-Tough Cognator
40 Credits = Improved IFF
1,000 Credits = Even better Factory Automation
500 Credits = More Efficient Engines
1,250 Credits = Improved Mining Excavator
3,000 Credits = Very Advanced Hydroponics
100 Credits = Lower Mass Alloy

500 Credits= Very Advanced-mag lav Trains
100 Credits= Auto-Doc Bed
500 Credits= High Bandwidth Vox

1,000 Credits = Royal Basilisk

5 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits = Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

2,500 Credits = 500 Fell-Call Tank

(Total 37 Relic Credits and 18,124 Credits > Convert 3 RC into 6,000 C > 34 Relic Credits and 24,124 Credits)

 

[Nurgle]

[X] Plan Generous Trade

I support generously to prop them up tech wise, and hopefully for reunification one day.