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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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I will mention that I have not double checked the total numbers, when you propose a plan you should check all of the numbers
 
Preliminary Plan: EVERYTHING!!!
3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
20 Relic Credits= Angelsteel (near unbreakable RM metal)
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

+ Unknown number of Merchant Men

Total 50 Relic Credits + 18,000 Credits

Our Trade
847 General STCS
150 Medical STCs
20 Food STCs
50 AM STCS
10 EM STCS
(get them up to Imperial Standards ASAP)

More Efficient Engines
Improved Mining Excavator
Very Advanced Hydroponics
Lower Mass Alloy
(Most of these are saving and provide large bonuses while being somewhat small and are not too advanced, they also will vastly increase their savings and production)

6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges
2 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Adamantine Forges
I thought they already had the automated forge and the adamantium forge isn't too large.


5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

500 Fellblade tanks= 2500


43 Relic Credits 23,444 credits

We're missing 7 RC. 2 if we convert 10,000 credits to RC, but I don't think we can afford that.

@Durin
1. Are they willing to let us sell them Psyker powers like Blink and Phase?
2. What is meant by all other astartes equipment? I'd have thought we had everything or better versions of it or is that where technomancy is?
3. How good is the ultra dense alloy compared to what we have?
 
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I think we should aim for the full 1000 merchantman and navigators, every extra ship means a stronger Trust when the orks rise.
 
True Metal Power said:
Thanks @Durin, I have some more questions:
1) How much requirements to a Princeps higher than to a Knight?
2) How's testing for that potential is done? For both Knights and Titans?
3) How much knight potential is hereditary?
4) So, nobody does mind sacrificing the chaos xeno, but actually raiding them for slaves viewed not so lightly?
5) How close is the closest Chaos Xeno civilization?
6) Did we tried to make lists of things that Questling Beast isn't and it didn't worked too, or we didn't tried?
7) Are we sure that there is no abhumans evolved from original Helheim colonists around?
8) So, are we sure that worshipers of Planetary Mind come to it purely on their own, and there is no some subtle influence?
9) Does their faith protects them from Chaos corruption the same way as faith in the Emperor was when he was still alive?
10) Does it give any other benefits that can be a work of Avernus?
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1. you are not sure, they are done by different secretive organisations
2. see above
3. unknown, though you need the right genes to have any
4. yes
5. hundreds of light years
6. it did not work
7. no
8. no
9. no
10. no
True Metal Power said:
Sorry @Durin, have you seen my post:



And a some more questions:
11) Do we need to upgrade to Cathedrals before upgrading to Grand Cathedrals?
12) If so, do GC blueprints include previous level?
13) Will we be able to use surplus credit later?
14) Did we already warned Necrons?
15) What's up with Karnas? Did we contacted them offscreen?
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11. yes
12. no
13. no
4. yes
15. yes you did and they have nothing you want
 
Alex pears said:
Preliminary Plan: EVERYTHING!!!
3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
10 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Ultra Dense Alloy (used in Battle Barges)
250 Credits= Baal Predator
20 Relic Credits= Angelsteel (near unbreakable RM metal)
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

+ Unknown number of Merchant Men

Total 50 Relic Credits + 18,000 Credits

Our Trade
847 General STCS
150 Medical STCs
20 Food STCs
50 AM STCS
10 EM STCS
(get them up to Imperial Standards ASAP)

More Efficient Engines
Improved Mining Excavator
Very Advanced Hydroponics
Lower Mass Alloy
(Most of these are saving and provide large bonuses while being somewhat small and are not too advanced, they also will vastly increase their savings and production)

6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges
2 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Adamantine Forges
I thought they already had the automated forge and the adamantium forge isn't too large.


5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

500 Fellblade tanks= 2500


43 Relic Credits 23,444 credits

We're missing 7 RC. 2 if we convert 10,000 credits to RC, but I don't think we can afford that.

@Durin
1. Are they willing to let us sell them Psyker powers like Blink and Phase?
2. What is meant by all other astartes equipment? I'd have thought we had everything or better versions of it?
3. How good is the ultra dense alloy compared to what we have?
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1. no
2. not all, there are a few specialised Astartes medical equipment ect you do not have
3. very, also very time consuming and expensive
 
Durin said:
1. no
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1. I suppose we also cannot trade them the Siren anti daemon rune?
2. Are there any other things worth relic credits we can trade (it seems odd that they have so much compared to us... or maybe they're just more willing to let them out).
3. Is technomancy included in the astartes equipment?
4. Why do they not want Blinking ect? Or is it us?
 
before you make any plans I should remind you of several things, this trade deal may set the tone of future relations with the Blood Dragons, you are preparing both of you for a threat that may wipe you all out and if the Blood Dragon's are wiped out you are very unlikely to get any of this technology anytime soon
 
Alex pears said:
1. I suppose we also cannot trade them the Siren anti daemon rune?
2. Are there any other things worth relic credits we can trade (it seems odd that they have so much compared to us... or maybe they're just more willing to let them out).
3. Is technomancy included in the astartes equipment?
4. Why do they not want Blinking ect? Or is it us?
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1. yes
2. not that you are willing to trade, there is a lot more that you have but you were not willing to trade it (if you were willing to give everything there would be several hundred relic credits)
3. no, they are not willing to give it to you for what you are willing to trade
4. they do not trust you enough
 
Alex pears said:
2. Are there any other things worth relic credits we can trade (it seems odd that they have so much compared to us... or maybe they're just more willing to let them out).
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I get a feeling astartes-specific gear is overpriced in this trade. Also it's not even trade: we are overpaying.

Let's cut on super dense alloy, our fleet backlog is massive as it is and we'll live without battle barges anyway.
 
vsh said:
I get a feeling astartes-specific gear is overpriced in this trade. Also it's not even trade: we are overpaying.

Let's cut on super dense alloy, our fleet backlog is massive as it is and we'll live without battle barges anyway.
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Yes it is, Astates are very unwilling to give out their secrets, the fact that it is even on the table is a massive show of trust. This is some of their greatest technology and wars have been fought over it in the past.
 
(total 50 Relic Credits, 18,000 Credits)
(total 45 Relic Credits and 43,368.02 Credits or 37 Relic Credits and 10,194 Credits if you stick to already agreed on)
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Anyone have a list of what we already agreed upon?

runes said:
If we just cut Ultra Dense Alloy we have enough to get everything else on the list.
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I would sooner have the Battle Barge alloy than the Angelsteel. Ship upgrades matter more than relic weapon upgrades.
 
Durin said:
2. not that you are willing to trade, there is a lot more that you have but you were not willing to trade it
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Ah you are a cruel man.

New plan

[X] Getting our monies worth

3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
250 Credits= Baal Predator
20 Relic Credits= Angelsteel (near unbreakable RM metal)
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5444 credits for hiring merchant men= over 1000 if my math is correct

Total 40 Relic Credits + 17,000 Credits

Our Trade
847 General STCS
150 Medical STCs
20 Food STCs
50 AM STCS
10 EM STCS
(get them up to Imperial Standards ASAP)

More Efficient Engines
Improved Mining Excavator
Very Advanced Hydroponics
Lower Mass Alloy
(Most of these are saving and provide large bonuses while being somewhat small and are not too advanced, they also will vastly increase their savings and production)

6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

500 Fellblade tanks= 2500

41 Relic Credits 22,444 credits

Basically the plan cuts the ultra dense alloy and the adamantium forges and suddenly we can get everything.

vsh said:
I get a feeling astartes-specific gear is overpriced in this trade. Also it's not even trade: we are overpaying.

Let's cut on super dense alloy, our fleet backlog is massive as it is and we'll live without battle barges anyway.
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Already did that, but the Astartes medical equipment is a must (for the Knights)

Can someone please check my maths just in case (I am a shit mathematician)

Besides we can pick up the wreckage of one eventually.

@Durin
1. Can we turn 1 relic credit into 2000 normal credits?

Angelform said:
Anyone have a list of what we already agreed upon?
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Durin said:
It has been decided that the following technologies are available to trade with the Blood Dragons: all of the Imperial Era STCs, Royal Basilisks, Astartes Advanced Power Armors
Currently being considered is allowing Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use to be traded as well as providing Fell Class Super-heavy Tanks as well as maintenance and basic repair instructions. The final decision on this topic will be agreed on once the trade has been proposed and what they are willing to offer in return is seen.
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Angelform said:
I would sooner have the Battle Barge alloy than the Angelsteel. Ship upgrades matter more than relic weapon upgrades.
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Time frame we're on, Rule of cool among other things say no.

Its also something that might have been made by Sanguinius himself, so I'm inclined to want it.

Battlebarge metal we can pick up from a debris field and reverse engineer.

It will also leave us with far too many Relic creds that don't transfer to the next trade.
 
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vsh said:
Me too, but it's much more expensive.
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More than that is the time.

Pallidus made a good point noting that upgrading the plasma reactors if we took the action would take too long at the moment, it'd take even longer to take off the current plating of our ships and add this new more expensive stuff.

Time we do not have.

At least with Angel Steel we can be certain that between the Svartsfar Admech and Guard we can make some really impressive weapons out of it.
 
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Alex pears said:
More than that is the time.

Pallidus made a good point noting that upgrading the plasma reactors if we took the action would take too long at the moment, it'd take even longer to take off the current plating of our ships and add this new more expensive stuff.

Time we do not have.

At least with Angel Steel we can be certain that between the Svartsfar Admech and Guard we can make some things out of it.
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I think this is a question for @Durin - would others in the Trust prefer the Ultra Dense Alloy or Angelsteel?
 
Enjou said:
I think this is a question for @Durin - would others in the Trust prefer the Ultra Dense Alloy or Angelsteel?
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Beyond that any issues with the plan.

I want them both, but in the end I cut the Ultra dense alloy partially because of time, but also because of credit efficiency.

They don't hold onto credit between trades so cutting the 20 credit angel steel would leave us almost 10.

Sure we could cut other things like the PA, but I don't think I want too (we're trying to prepare them as well)

In fact I think adding in the faster cogitators and improved IFF might be a good idea to help them deal with fighterbombers.

vsh said:
That's not an even choice, UDA is much more expensive. Question is, would they be okay to part with high-tech STCs to obtain UDA?
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No.

There is no version of this plan which can reach 50 RM credits.

The most we can get up to is 48 by my count.
 
Alex pears said:
Ah you are a cruel man.

New plan

[X] Getting our monies worth

3 Relic Credits= Terminator Armour
250 Credits= Baal Predator
20 Relic Credits= Angelsteel (near unbreakable RM metal)
250 Credits= all other Astartes equipment

1 Relic Credits and 1,000 Credits= Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
2 Relic Credits and 10,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah (AM)
4 Relic Credits and 500 Credits= Cathedral of the Machine-God (RM)
10 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God(RM)

5444 credits for hiring merchant men= over 1000 if my math is correct

Total 40 Relic Credits + 17,000 Credits

Our Trade
847 General STCS
150 Medical STCs
20 Food STCs
50 AM STCS
10 EM STCS
(get them up to Imperial Standards ASAP)

More Efficient Engines
Improved Mining Excavator
Very Advanced Hydroponics
Lower Mass Alloy
(Most of these are saving and provide large bonuses while being somewhat small and are not too advanced, they also will vastly increase their savings and production)

6 Relic Credits and 5,000 Credits= Automated Forges

5 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Elite
2 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Destroyer
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Raider
4 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Recon
3 Relic Credits= Advanced Astartes Power Armour: Ace

20 Relic Credits and 2,000 Credits= Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and the naval technology that they use

500 Fellblade tanks= 2500

41 Relic Credits 22,444 credits

Basically the plan cuts the ultra dense alloy and the adamantium forges and suddenly we can get everything.


Already did that, but the Astartes medical equipment is a must (for the Knights)

Can someone please check my maths just in case (I am a shit mathematician)

Besides we can pick up the wreckage of one eventually.

@Durin
1. Can we turn 1 relic credit into 2000 normal credits?





Time frame we're on, Rule of cool among other things say no.

Its also something that might have been made by Sanguinius himself, so I'm inclined to want it.

Battlebarge metal we can pick up from a debris field and reverse engineer.

It will also leave us with far too many Relic creds that don't transfer to the next trade.
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1. yes
Enjou said:
I think this is a question for @Durin - would others in the Trust prefer the Ultra Dense Alloy or Angelsteel?
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Ultra-Dense as a rule, while it would take to long to deal with the immediate threat it could be combined with your tech for some amazing results and is going to be very hard to get otherwise
also do not be confident that you can reverse engineer everything, speccialy stuff like alloys that leaves little impact in the warp
 
vsh said:
That's not an even choice, UDA is much more expensive. Question is, would they be okay to part with high-tech STCs to obtain UDA?
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Angelsteel costs twice as many Relic Credits. UDA also has broader use, since you can make enough of it for starships.

Alex pears said:
Beyond that any issues with the plan.

I want them both, but in the end I cut the Ultra dense alloy partially because of time, but also because of credit efficiency.

They don't hold onto credit between trades so cutting the 20 credit angel steel would leave us almost 10.

Sure we could cut other things like the PA, but I don't think I want too (we're trying to prepare them as well)

In fact I think adding in the faster cogitators and improved IFF might be a good idea to help them deal with fighterbombers.
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We can potentially get everything if we're willing to convert 10,000 regular credits into Relic Credits. The max we can possibly trade goes well beyond that (max they can trade for is 18,000 Credits, max we can trade for is 43,368.02 Credits)
 
Angelsteel will need relic material to make right? That limits its use in the trust dramatically, we are the only world in the trust that makes relic material in any quantity, IIRC.
 
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