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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- United States
162025.7 owed + 46400 + 2550 - 133100 - 161600 = -83,725
fair enough. i was looking at our income from last turn and those numbers dont match up. i assume that that that loss was from the previous trade deals.
fair enough.
Probably going to work up my own trade deal, though I might end up going with the Max AM/EM trade.
I don't really feel like we have to watch out for Jontunhiem's deficits, for all we know they have a production expansion in the works that will finish in the next few years. It's not like Garp is bad at Administration or something, he's competent enough to manage his own business. If it was important I'm sure he'd say something (like Vanahiem has in the past about metal, and Midgard is this turn about metal).
Focusing on us:
Net Income (before trade):
Thrones: 5,417,198,980
Material: 3,785,756,758
Metal: 8,776,217,980
Promethium: 2,361,030,404
Advanced Material: -3,411,656
Exotics: -15,802
Food: 4,243
Relic Material: 2
We have large reserves of food, material, and thrones, and decent reserves of Promethium and Metal.
Things to note about the trade is that no one else is selling metal, not Jotunhiem or Muspelhiem. Midgard is specifically requesting more metal (5/8ths of our total production), and Vanaheim is not (though they have their usual "no limit" offer to buy). Note that this is a problem with the Max AM/EM trade as it does not fill Midgard's need for metal. Also, we should probably still trade Vanaheim some significant metal for diplomatic reasons. I figure we can trade away at least 7 billion a year.
Also, we are expecting to open more metal mines in parts of Iota (the three desert cities) so maybe we can focus on increasing some of our output there.
I don't really feel like we have to watch out for Jontunhiem's deficits, for all we know they have a production expansion in the works that will finish in the next few years. It's not like Garp is bad at Administration or something, he's competent enough to manage his own business. If it was important I'm sure he'd say something (like Vanahiem has in the past about metal, and Midgard is this turn about metal).
Focusing on us:
Net Income (before trade):
Thrones: 5,417,198,980
Material: 3,785,756,758
Metal: 8,776,217,980
Promethium: 2,361,030,404
Advanced Material: -3,411,656
Exotics: -15,802
Food: 4,243
Relic Material: 2
We have large reserves of food, material, and thrones, and decent reserves of Promethium and Metal.
Things to note about the trade is that no one else is selling metal, not Jotunhiem or Muspelhiem. Midgard is specifically requesting more metal (5/8ths of our total production), and Vanaheim is not (though they have their usual "no limit" offer to buy). Note that this is a problem with the Max AM/EM trade as it does not fill Midgard's need for metal. Also, we should probably still trade Vanaheim some significant metal for diplomatic reasons. I figure we can trade away at least 7 billion a year.
Also, we are expecting to open more metal mines in parts of Iota (the three desert cities) so maybe we can focus on increasing some of our output there.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Actually now that I look at the income table it is all kinds of wonky. If you sum up the colums the totals are totally wrong (for example we seem to have almost no Materials income but our net Metal income should be over 16 billion according to it), should we just ihnore the top part and just look at the totals?
True, but that's why I'm asking the GM about it.
Production converts Metal into Material. I forget the rate, but the Net Income row shows what it is after that is applied.
Did some quick back of an envelope estimations for how much metal we consume on projects each year.
We spent about 2 billion metal during the last 5 year turn, which suggests that a yearly income of 0.5 billion ought to cover what we need. Suggesting we can trade away 8.2 billion worth of metal per a year.
However, we have some significantly expensive upgrades coming up, particularly in the Administrative section.
Upgrading the defenses of four major cities costs about 1 billion metal (x2 if expediting). (This is what we have been doing the last several turns).
Upgrading the defenses of a small hive costs 2 billion metal, and upgrading Dis costs 17 billion metal.
We are going to run out of major cities soon and then start on the small hives, which means our five turn expenditure is likely to at least double pretty soon. Dis can upgraded out of our reserves, though it should be done last because of the maintenance cost (0.2 billion).
Because of this I think the maximum we can trade on metal is 7.7 billion a year.
Let's make that under 7.5 billion to be safe, so looking at what planets are asking for I'd suggest something like:
5 billion a year for Midgard (minimum they asked for)
2 billion a year for Vanaheim (much less than we were selling them, but still significant, so they should stay happy)
300 million a year for Nilfheim (1/10th of what they are willing to buy)
100 million a year for Alfheim (1/10th of what they are willing to buy)
That puts us at 7.4 billion a year in metal traded away, and leaves us an income of just under 1.3 billion a year for our own uses.
EDIT: Working on a trade deal using these assumptions
We spent about 2 billion metal during the last 5 year turn, which suggests that a yearly income of 0.5 billion ought to cover what we need. Suggesting we can trade away 8.2 billion worth of metal per a year.
However, we have some significantly expensive upgrades coming up, particularly in the Administrative section.
Upgrading the defenses of four major cities costs about 1 billion metal (x2 if expediting). (This is what we have been doing the last several turns).
Upgrading the defenses of a small hive costs 2 billion metal, and upgrading Dis costs 17 billion metal.
We are going to run out of major cities soon and then start on the small hives, which means our five turn expenditure is likely to at least double pretty soon. Dis can upgraded out of our reserves, though it should be done last because of the maintenance cost (0.2 billion).
Because of this I think the maximum we can trade on metal is 7.7 billion a year.
Let's make that under 7.5 billion to be safe, so looking at what planets are asking for I'd suggest something like:
5 billion a year for Midgard (minimum they asked for)
2 billion a year for Vanaheim (much less than we were selling them, but still significant, so they should stay happy)
300 million a year for Nilfheim (1/10th of what they are willing to buy)
100 million a year for Alfheim (1/10th of what they are willing to buy)
That puts us at 7.4 billion a year in metal traded away, and leaves us an income of just under 1.3 billion a year for our own uses.
EDIT: Working on a trade deal using these assumptions
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. ye, though you do not actually need to sell any to Vanaheim
2. at the moment no
3. no
4. a long time
1. no
2. Admech standards
3. probably not
4. yes
1. another 5 Defence Cruisers and 200 Monitor have been requested
you do not need to watch out for Jotunheim deficits
Okay, based on this will buy more defense cruisers/monitors, and also probably shift 1 billion metal from Vanahiem to Midgard, maybe some additions to Alfheim and Nilfhiem as well.
EDIT: Taking a break for dinner so I will be a couple more hours before posting my trade plan.
@Durin Any comment on the questions about cargo space and ship numbers?
Summarized here: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8648193/
EDIT: Taking a break for dinner so I will be a couple more hours before posting my trade plan.
@Durin Any comment on the questions about cargo space and ship numbers?
Summarized here: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8648193/
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Ok, I'll add those and remove the sale of EM to Jotunheim then. EDIT - Done.
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Military Stats (WIP)
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
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- Location
- madison
huh, impalers cost 10 times as much as a las gun, I thought they were not that much more expensive. I'm surprised the Imperium switched over. That's assuming I'm remembering right and they did, instead of just issuing impalers to their more elite units.
RogueInquisitor
Unexpected!
Impalers were primarily to replace bolters, as they offered superior performance, and reduced ammunition costs. Lasguns largely remained the standard weapon of the Imperial Guard, as they are near unbeatable in cost of ammunition and per unit, and the reduced effectiveness is something the Imperium has tolerated for more than ten thousand years.
- Location
- Brazil
IIRC, the SM all switched.
So it's more a matter of more elite units getting better gear, instead of every mook getting a bolter equivalent.
Impalers are more expensive than Lasguns, but they're still a lot cheaper than Bolters. The Imperial Guard would likely have been switched over eventually, but the Imperium was a slow and lumbering beast that was slow to make changes - probably would have taken a couple centuries at the least, and even then I suspect there would have been regiments that would still be using lasguns.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
thats Impaler Rifles, the guard were equipped with Impaler Carbines which are only 3 times the price
- Location
- Estonia
Well about 7 billion metal to sell then . Send some to vanaheim btw (maybe a billion and another billion between the two others who want metal and 5 to midgard or abit more if we can afford it) .
not hundred percent happy with either plan .
And grab those conveyors guys - transport capability is always good and there is abit of a shortage even going on . And we can choose more warships focused plan without any drawbacks once for example .
not hundred percent happy with either plan .
And grab those conveyors guys - transport capability is always good and there is abit of a shortage even going on . And we can choose more warships focused plan without any drawbacks once for example .
Accidentally pasted the new "owed to Avernus" total in the wrong spot. Fixed.
There's not a shortage on transport capacity right now, and we can build our own Mass Conveyors pretty easily now. But we don't need to, because we have far more capacity than we're actually using.
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The only complaint about it currently, other than being so incomplete, is that the anti-whatever column headers are too mushed to see clearly. I also don't know what half of them are.
- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
Something to realize is that we finally have significant extra cargo space, so we ought to use it and try and fill all the purchase requests that we can without harming ourselves, even if that means buying from other systems (material and promethium mostly).
[X] Plan Maximize Trade
Summary:
Cargo space used/Cargo Space available = 447.5/668
126,260 Credits owed to Avernus by Asgard
82,728 Credits owed to Avernus by Alfheim
1,401,766.2 Credits owed to Avernus by Vanaheim
39,010 Credits owed to Avernus by Jotunheim
380,338 Credits owed to Avernus by Midgard
271,165 Credits owed to Avernus by Svartalfheim
269,851.9 Credits owed to Muspelheim by Avernus
258,545.7 Credits owed to Avernus by Nilfheim
Effects on Thrones: -2,300,000,000 Thrones from 5,417,198,980 Income (and a massive reserve)
Effects on Material: -250,000,000 Material from 3,785,756,758 Income (and large reserves)
Effects on Metal: -7,500,000,000 Metal from 8,776,217,980 Income (determined this is within safe range).
Effects on Promethium: +400,000,000 Promethium added to 2,361,030,404 Income
Effects on Advanced Material: +8,180,000 AM added to -3,411,656 Income
Effects on Exotic Material: +72,300 EM added to -15,802 Income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commentary:
This is actually significantly more AM and EM than the "Plan Max AM/EM" as that plan avoids going into debt to Muspelheim. I don't think we should be afraid to go into debt to Muspelheim.
Other major differences are that I send a lot more metal to Midgard (who desparately needs it) and less to Nilfhiem. Also I sell material to Jotunhiem after buying from Vanaheim and Midgard. This is effectively shifting the debt from Vanaheim and Midgard to Jotunheim which I think is wise to do.
A possible optimization would be to shift metal from going to Vanaheim to Nilfheim. I'm leaning towards doing that now, but would like to hear what others think. Possibly Alfheim as well, though that is less important. This would sift debt to Nilfheim from Vanaheim which would be advantageous to us (as Nilfheim produces AM and EM) but I wonder if there are political ramifications to not selling Vanaheim metal. Probably not, but that's what I would like others thoughts on.
EDIT: Shifted the metal going to Vanaheim to Nilfheim. Since that serves us better, and they need it a bunch more.
[X] Plan Maximize Trade
Asgard (17.5 Cargo, 126,260 Credits owed to Avernus)
SELL
200 Knights per year = +21,320 Cr
250,000,000 Material per year = 12.5 Cargo, +23,200 Cr
100,000,000 Promethium per year = 5 Cargo, +780 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per a year = +2,500 Cr
BUY
100,000 Advanced Material per year = -13,110 Cr
300 Exotic Material per year = -2,397 Cr
Starting Asgard owes Avernus 93,967 Cr
+21,320 Cr
+23,200 Cr
+780 Cr
+2,500 Cr
-13,110 Cr
-2,397 Cr
End Total = 126,260 Credits owed to Avernus by Asgard
SELL
200 Knights per year = +21,320 Cr
250,000,000 Material per year = 12.5 Cargo, +23,200 Cr
100,000,000 Promethium per year = 5 Cargo, +780 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per a year = +2,500 Cr
BUY
100,000 Advanced Material per year = -13,110 Cr
300 Exotic Material per year = -2,397 Cr
Starting Asgard owes Avernus 93,967 Cr
+21,320 Cr
+23,200 Cr
+780 Cr
+2,500 Cr
-13,110 Cr
-2,397 Cr
End Total = 126,260 Credits owed to Avernus by Asgard
Alfheim (12 Cargo, 82,728 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL
Training = +10 Cr
100,000,000 Metal per year = 4 Cargo, +8,280 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year = +2,550 Cr
BUY
80,000 Advanced Material per year = -10,496 Cr
2,000 Exotic Material per year = -15,980 Cr
Starting Alfheim owes Avernus 98,364 Cr
+10 Cr
+8,280 Cr
+2,550 Cr
-10,496 Cr
-15,980 Cr
End Total = 82,728 Credits owed to Avernus by Alfheim
SELL
Training = +10 Cr
100,000,000 Metal per year = 4 Cargo, +8,280 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year = +2,550 Cr
BUY
80,000 Advanced Material per year = -10,496 Cr
2,000 Exotic Material per year = -15,980 Cr
Starting Alfheim owes Avernus 98,364 Cr
+10 Cr
+8,280 Cr
+2,550 Cr
-10,496 Cr
-15,980 Cr
End Total = 82,728 Credits owed to Avernus by Alfheim
Vanaheim (60 Cargo, 1,401,766.2 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL
300,000,000 Thrones per year = +1,620 Cr
BUY
5 Helheim Patten Defence Cruiser = -4,196.7 Cr
200 Defence Monitor = -1,080 Cr
1,000,000,000 Material per year = 60 Cargo, -93,300 Cr
Starting Vanaheim owes Avernus 1,498,722.9 Cr
+82,200 Cr
+1,620 Cr
-4,196.7 Cr
-1,080 Cr
-93,300 Cr
End Total = 1,401,766.2 Credits owed to Avernus by Vanaheim
SELL
300,000,000 Thrones per year = +1,620 Cr
BUY
5 Helheim Patten Defence Cruiser = -4,196.7 Cr
200 Defence Monitor = -1,080 Cr
1,000,000,000 Material per year = 60 Cargo, -93,300 Cr
Starting Vanaheim owes Avernus 1,498,722.9 Cr
+82,200 Cr
+1,620 Cr
-4,196.7 Cr
-1,080 Cr
-93,300 Cr
End Total = 1,401,766.2 Credits owed to Avernus by Vanaheim
Jotunheim (32 Cargo, 39,010 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL
500,000,000 Material per year = 16 Cargo, +41,300 Cr
200,000,000 Thrones per year = +1,020 Cr
BUY
500,000,000 Promethium per year = 32 Cargo, -3,950 Cr
Starting Jotunheim owes Avernus 640 Cr
+41,300 Cr
+1,020 Cr
-3,950 Cr
End Total = 39,010 Credits owed to Avernus by Jotunheim
SELL
500,000,000 Material per year = 16 Cargo, +41,300 Cr
200,000,000 Thrones per year = +1,020 Cr
BUY
500,000,000 Promethium per year = 32 Cargo, -3,950 Cr
Starting Jotunheim owes Avernus 640 Cr
+41,300 Cr
+1,020 Cr
-3,950 Cr
End Total = 39,010 Credits owed to Avernus by Jotunheim
Midgard (168 Cargo, 380,338 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL
6,000,000,000 Metal per year = 126 Cargo, +489,600 Cr
2,000 Food per year = 42 Cargo, +18,400 Cr
BUY
2,000,000,000 Material per year = 42 Cargo, -186,800 Cr
Starting Midgard owes Avernus 59,138 Cr
+489,600 Cr
+18,400 Cr
-186,800 Cr
End Total = 380,338 Credits owed to Avernus by Midgard
SELL
6,000,000,000 Metal per year = 126 Cargo, +489,600 Cr
2,000 Food per year = 42 Cargo, +18,400 Cr
BUY
2,000,000,000 Material per year = 42 Cargo, -186,800 Cr
Starting Midgard owes Avernus 59,138 Cr
+489,600 Cr
+18,400 Cr
-186,800 Cr
End Total = 380,338 Credits owed to Avernus by Midgard
Svartalfheim (32 Cargo, 271,165 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL
1,000,000,000 Promethium per year = 32 Cargo, +7,800 Cr
100,000,000 Thrones per year = +520 Cr
BUY
2,000,000 Advanced Material per year = -263,000 Cr
Starting Svartalfheim owes Avernus 525,845 Cr
+7,800 Cr
+520 Cr
-263,000 Cr
End Total = 271,165 Credits owed to Avernus by Svartalfheim
SELL
1,000,000,000 Promethium per year = 32 Cargo, +7,800 Cr
100,000,000 Thrones per year = +520 Cr
BUY
2,000,000 Advanced Material per year = -263,000 Cr
Starting Svartalfheim owes Avernus 525,845 Cr
+7,800 Cr
+520 Cr
-263,000 Cr
End Total = 271,165 Credits owed to Avernus by Svartalfheim
Muspelheim (86 Cargo, -269,851.9 Cr owed to Avernus)
SELL
1,000,000,000 Material per year = 43 Cargo, +92,800 Cr
1,000,000,000 Promethium per year = 43 Cargo, +7,800 Cr
200,000,000 Thrones per year = +1,020 Cr
BUY
5,000,000 Advanced Material per year = -662,000 Cr
50,000 Exotic Material per year = -408,020 Cr
Starting Muspelheim owes Avernus 498,548.1 Cr
+92,800 Cr
+7,800 Cr
+1,020 Cr
-662,000 Cr
-408,020 Cr
End Total = 269,851.9 Credits owed to Muspelheim by Avernus
SELL
1,000,000,000 Material per year = 43 Cargo, +92,800 Cr
1,000,000,000 Promethium per year = 43 Cargo, +7,800 Cr
200,000,000 Thrones per year = +1,020 Cr
BUY
5,000,000 Advanced Material per year = -662,000 Cr
50,000 Exotic Material per year = -408,020 Cr
Starting Muspelheim owes Avernus 498,548.1 Cr
+92,800 Cr
+7,800 Cr
+1,020 Cr
-662,000 Cr
-408,020 Cr
End Total = 269,851.9 Credits owed to Muspelheim by Avernus
Niflheim (40 Cargo, 258,545.7 owed to Avernus)
SELL
500,000,000 Material per year = 10 Cargo, +46,400 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year = +2,550 Cr
1,400,000,000 Metal per year = 28 Cargo, +115,920 Cr
82800
BUY
1,000,000 Advanced Material per year = -133,100 Cr
20,000 Exotic Material per year = -161,600 Cr
2,000,000,000 Promethium per year = 40 Cargo, -19,400 Cr
Starting Niflheim owes Avernus 407,775.7 Cr
+46,400 Cr
+2,550 Cr
+115,920 Cr
-133,100 Cr
-161,600 Cr
-19,400 Cr
End Total = 258,545.7 Credits owed to Avernus by Nilfheim
SELL
500,000,000 Material per year = 10 Cargo, +46,400 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year = +2,550 Cr
1,400,000,000 Metal per year = 28 Cargo, +115,920 Cr
82800
BUY
1,000,000 Advanced Material per year = -133,100 Cr
20,000 Exotic Material per year = -161,600 Cr
2,000,000,000 Promethium per year = 40 Cargo, -19,400 Cr
Starting Niflheim owes Avernus 407,775.7 Cr
+46,400 Cr
+2,550 Cr
+115,920 Cr
-133,100 Cr
-161,600 Cr
-19,400 Cr
End Total = 258,545.7 Credits owed to Avernus by Nilfheim
Summary:
Cargo space used/Cargo Space available = 447.5/668
126,260 Credits owed to Avernus by Asgard
82,728 Credits owed to Avernus by Alfheim
1,401,766.2 Credits owed to Avernus by Vanaheim
39,010 Credits owed to Avernus by Jotunheim
380,338 Credits owed to Avernus by Midgard
271,165 Credits owed to Avernus by Svartalfheim
269,851.9 Credits owed to Muspelheim by Avernus
258,545.7 Credits owed to Avernus by Nilfheim
Effects on Thrones: -2,300,000,000 Thrones from 5,417,198,980 Income (and a massive reserve)
Effects on Material: -250,000,000 Material from 3,785,756,758 Income (and large reserves)
Effects on Metal: -7,500,000,000 Metal from 8,776,217,980 Income (determined this is within safe range).
Effects on Promethium: +400,000,000 Promethium added to 2,361,030,404 Income
Effects on Advanced Material: +8,180,000 AM added to -3,411,656 Income
Effects on Exotic Material: +72,300 EM added to -15,802 Income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commentary:
This is actually significantly more AM and EM than the "Plan Max AM/EM" as that plan avoids going into debt to Muspelheim. I don't think we should be afraid to go into debt to Muspelheim.
Other major differences are that I send a lot more metal to Midgard (who desparately needs it) and less to Nilfhiem. Also I sell material to Jotunhiem after buying from Vanaheim and Midgard. This is effectively shifting the debt from Vanaheim and Midgard to Jotunheim which I think is wise to do.
A possible optimization would be to shift metal from going to Vanaheim to Nilfheim. I'm leaning towards doing that now, but would like to hear what others think. Possibly Alfheim as well, though that is less important. This would sift debt to Nilfheim from Vanaheim which would be advantageous to us (as Nilfheim produces AM and EM) but I wonder if there are political ramifications to not selling Vanaheim metal. Probably not, but that's what I would like others thoughts on.
EDIT: Shifted the metal going to Vanaheim to Nilfheim. Since that serves us better, and they need it a bunch more.
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[X] Plan Maximize Trade
- Location
- Spain
[X] Plan Maximize Trade